₦airaland Forum

LagosShia: brother,there is nothing confusing.he has said as it is,that rukoo is "kneeling down",and that he made a mistake by typing "prostration" (bowing down).

the verse has to do with rukoo,not sujud.what's confusing and illogical?

in my post, i did not mention postration. It is between BOW and KNEEL DOWN

But when i rukoo during prayer, i dont kneel down? at least that i know! during rukoo, every Muslim Bow (not kneel down). This makes it confusing.

@ lagosshia, Please tell me in a word the meaning of rukoo - is it TO BOW or TO KNEEL DOWN. then relate it to the Hadit above.

♚ƒԐLis-c∆tus:
What?
Abeg let him travel if he wants to travel. Allah doesn't need the fasting and prayers of any of His creatures.
Also, there are some regions in the world where there is no Muslim fasting and praying constantly yet life goes on.
Kudos to the brother though. I wish him the best in this life and in the hereafter.

You may not understand. That is Islam encouraging the Love of God and the Spirit of Selflessness. May Most High God in His mercy grant him the Reward and make it easy for him. May God make Good deeds easy for us as well.

Bidam: Let scripture SPEAK for itself..."Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."—1 Corinthians 1:24.

I read that Paul wrote this book as a letter, If his past is really questionable, i dont see reason why he should be so trusted. not even when his naration of his encounter has more than one version. A right thinking man will have questions to whatever is read in this letter.... Question of trust.

Bidam: John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John
Dont just say John wrote this book, please prove that He wrote it. IF there is a contradictory opinion, we have to straighten things out to become clear. Thats what makes the Humans Man.

2 John 1:7

New International Version (©2011)
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son.


"The Word was God, and the Word was with God." "All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." The pillars of the earth were placed in their everlasting sockets by the omnipotent right hand of Christ;

Light reveals truth; therefore people who want to put out the light of truth are those who want to do their wicked deeds concealed by the cover of darkness.

[b]"This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." (John 3:19-21, NIV)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John
could this be trueThere is also some evidence that John might not have written the "Book of John" and it was wrongly attributed to him) if there are evidence, then they need to be disproved.

"The Gospel of John developed over a period of time in various stages,[26] summarized by Raymond E. Brown as follows:[27]

1.An initial version based on personal experience of Jesus;
2.A structured literary creation by the evangelist which draws upon additional sources;
3.The final harmony that presently exists in the New Testament canon, around 85-90 AD.[28]
In view of this complex and multi-layered history it is meaningless to speak of a single "author" of John, but the title perhaps belongs best to the evangelist who came at the end of this process.[29] The final composition's comparatively late date, and its insistence upon Jesus as a divine being walking the earth in human form, renders it highly problematical to scholars who attempt to evaluate Jesus' life in terms of literal historical truth"



Dont just say John wrote this book, please prove that He wrote it. IF there is a contradictory opinion, we have to straighten things out to become clear. Thats what makes the Humans Man.

if peoples defination hv to define ur faith nd u refuse to thjnk objectively, whose problem?

i will tell a 3 year old tat u guys said; rukoo= bow = kneel down. prefarably that u say bow nd kneel down re same...... it is really confusing and illogical

Bidam: He is God that was made manifest in the flesh as the Son.

but he does not know?

ooman: I have read the koran and the hadiths. I know quite well what am saying. Islam means death to non muslims.

sorry to say but if its true that you have read the Quran, then you must have read like the guy who spent 8 Years in school and still got expelled....

Cyracks: neither of them will make heaven if they don't repent and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savoir.

Says your contradictory bible. I still wonder why people will hold a book, believe a part of it and ignre another part of it and still claim it is holy! what other way can we define doggedness?

Logic thing if you can think: the Quran claims the way of your Lord will never change. A reasonable reason some part of the OT is confirmed in the Quran "LT"- i just used LT, the Quran is more than a testament. It is a Manual as well.

Zhul-fiqar:
It was a mistake if I used the word "prostrate".I must have mistakenly translated Rukoo (bowing on your knees/kneeling) as "prostration"/sujood (forehead on the ground).the verse has to do with rukoo and not sujood..

the verse is rukoo but the hadith says Ali(ra) was kneeling down. that is a major difference.

Zhul-fiqar:
The verse does not order you to give alms while you pray as a direct order.the verse orders you on the question of imamate/leadership/wilayah/mastership and who you must obey as an order from above.however,in the event the scenario upon which the verse was revealed repeats itself with you,then you can out of a sincere action offer alms while praying.

can i also becon to the begger at the door so i can give alms since no one has given him anything? If you are praying, how will you even know a begger was not given anything, i dont thing you will be monitoring a begger while praying o!

MAy GOD GUIDE US ARIGHT My BROTHER

Whatever it is, know that you need to establish a good relationship with God. It is either God wants to remind you or the Devil wants to decieve you. I advise you to search though all religions and find out which one makes sense most to you and be religious. God is real and there are obligations expected of you.

RESEARCH THROUGH ALL FAITHS YOURSELVE (dont allow someone to brainwash you) IF GOD MADE US INTELLIGENT, THEN YOUR BELIEVE MUST BE A RESULT OF A LOGICAL CONCLUSION after a sincere and holistic reasearch.
if God created satan, then id pray: May God guide us to himselve and protcect us from the Evil he created.

What really is the defination of religion? If it is the act of believeing and worshiping a god and acting according to some obligations expected to be defined/sanctioned by their god, can we assume atheists assume themselves to be god-whereby they define what obligations they want for themselves, and live in their own world as they want to? ......its just a thought but i think there must be a defination foir religion and even those who claim they dont belong to any already created one for themselves (those that dont believe)

The world was made somehow, sometimes and the pattern of things dont make it look like a fluke. Trying to establish a reason for creation and understanding there is a Maker for these beautiful entity is just common sense.

Does it make sense for Man, with the claim of being the most intelligent creature on earth to assume he has no responsibility to this creator? It is possible, yes but does it make sense for man to assume that? Imagine an organisation having a leader who thinks he has no obligation!........ MAN IS LIKE A LEADER AMONG CREATIONS

These and many other things are what a reasonable human should ponder about. then think if there are answers to his questions.

Religion has answers to so many questions but it has also proven to be rivalry (though we will wonder why if the target is a relationship with the Creator). But the fact is it does not make religion less relevant in the Life of a reasonable man.

If religion tries to define who the creator is with the outcome of one creator for every religion, it is only reasonable for Man- if he is really intelligent to find out who really is this creator, what is the true religion, and what is the essence of creation. If there truely is a cre3ator, then miracle should not be doubted. but logic, human reasoning, use of intellect is important in sorting out this puzzle.

@ OP, you know what you expect of religion if truely there should be one. I think it should be championed towards peaceful coexistence (and Man with the best of characted is an important factor for this). To know the right religion is hard due to the rivalry created betwen them today. A group generate information to decieve people about the other, a group kill the other... the atrocities are just endless so it is important for a seeker of truth to do a personal and holistic research with informaton in its purest form.

(how can a civil right activist come to lagos and with the intention of knowing what is done there immediately. In that quest he goes to the "PDP" to get information about what the rulling party "AC" does and based his conclussion on that? While the rivalry group will want to give a wrong impression, the group itself will want to glorify itselve, so it is important for such person to get botn information and live in Lagos a while to confirm which is true. It is important to live it himselve and experience it)

I believe there is a reason for existence and i hope we all perform to expectation.

.....live happily, enjoy yourselve and dont inconvenience your neighbor..... as the most intelligent, find out your responsibility. at least confirm there is none!

like the topic, God is not a muslim nor a christian but i think we all should believe that if there is God, a creator, he must have expectations.

ooman: Good work but I read the gospel of mary a long time ago. Also is the gospel of philip where jesus was said to kiss mary on her mouth.

Xtianity is a shame, islam is a disaster.

u obviously dont know what islam is. ...read. learn from the source itselve and you will understand what it is to be submisive to Gods will.

Most high Gods guidiance is the only true guidiance

andromida: Jesus did not follow any Islamic path.

and you think he must have followed a christian path? funny. Jesus submitted himselve wholly to the will of the Most high God. Please go and check the Meaning of Muslim then return to comment

Zhul-fiqar:
Certainly your Master is ...

"Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow.And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious".(Quran 5:55-56)

It is unanimous that the verse descended about Imam Ali (AS) when he gave
away in charity his ring while he was in a state of kneeling in his prayer....

...When he reached this verse he recorded this in his Tafsir al-Kabir on the
authority of Abu Dhar al-Ghifari, who said:

[i]"Both of my ears may turn deaf and both of my eyes may become blind if I speak a lie. I heard the Messenger of Allah, Allah's blessings and peace be upon him and his posterity, saying, "Ali is the guide of the righteous and the slayer of the infidels. he who has helped him is victorious and he who has abandoned him is forsaken." One day I said my prayers in the company of the Prophet. A beggar came to the mosque and begged for alms, but nobody gave him anything. Ali was in a state of kneeling in the prayer. He pointed out his ring to the beggar, who appraoched him and removed the ring from his finger.

This is from your first post. is kneeling down a state of "bowing down"? i am convinced something is wrong with that interpretation it is just very clear.

also

Zhul-fiqar:
..."If you inquire how this plural word is applicable to Ali, may Allah be gracious to him, who is an individual, I shall say that though this verse is about Ali, an individual, the plural form is used in order to presuade others to act similarly and to give alms as readily as Ali did. There is also an implied instruction that the faithful should keep themselves always on the look out for occasions of acts of sympathy, benevolence and charity to the poor and the needy, and readily do the needful without waiting till the completion of even so important a duty as saying a prayer".

please answer me, does the avove mean i can give alms while praying? remember that the ways of your Lorrd will never change!

May God in his mercy guide us with the light of the Quran

MY Brother,

Zhul-fiqar:
"Have you not consider those who turned the blessing of Allah into disbelief and led their people into the abode of loss" (Holy Quran 14:28)

are you saying that it is Allahs favour on us to give alms while we pray? I wont think so. may God guide us.

Zhul-fiqar:
islam isn't about what anyone thinks,but about what it actually is and what's based on evidence and reason.

yes. reason. i believe reason is a product of thought, it must be concieved first. What are the available evidence and what does the prophet teach/ Quran - no evidence should supercede these i believe you know that.

Zhul-fiqar:
whether you substitute (play with words) "prostration" with "humility",the key word is still "while".the conjunction is not "and".if it would have been "pay the poor charity and they 'humble' themselves",then you'd have a point.not even twisting the verse by changing the word "prostrate" with "humble themselves" to hide the direct action of how we "humble ourselves" in prayer can help your case.

clarify please, is the word "postrate" or "bow" in the Hadith, did Ali(ra) have his head and nose on the floor or was he in ruku position? or how do we define postrate/bow- bow is actually a better word for ra`kiu`n? this was described earlier in this tread- and tell me how he fits into your explanation of those "who give alms while they bow"
i believe the use of "while" is a better option than "and". Humility is best when you give and not after. (e.g you give alms while smiling and not give alms and/then smile) who needs the smile after?(God forgive me
may God in his mercy guide us to the right path-amin

and in your mind, you know islam, you cannot even confirm/verify what you hear, yet you claim to be more inteligent. Go and learn what is said about one who does not know but thinks he knows.

babyosisi: You Muslims are as deceptive as can be but unfortunately you are dealing with people more intelligent than you

Muslims break treaties because they are allowed to deceive their opponents and say yes when they mean no,only to strike and take the opponent unawares
Anyone believing a word you folks say does not know Islam

Quran 2:42 - and do not mix up truth with falsehood, nor hide the truth while you know it
Quran 6:152 - "... and when you speak, then be just though it may be against a relative..."
these and many more are directly from the Quran for those who care to listen. so whoever does as you described above is not fit to be called a Muslim.

babyosisi: A poll was carried out in your native Nigeria and 50% of Nigerian Muslims sanctioned violence against non Muslims

Please what is your source?

babyosisi: Who will unite with a violent bunch whose religion enjoins you to scheme and deceive your opponents
The Koran even says Allah was the best schemer

DO you now the meaning of scheme at all? Scheme means ...A systematic plan of action, a plot. i suppose you are a christian, how will you explain your claim that Jesus was crusified to the joy of some people but that they were only playing into the plan. What plan were they playing into? could it also be called a scheme?... sometimes i reflect who really are the hypocrites.
God is the best of Planners. I thinkmther is no doubt about that. Let the devil do all his schemes for 1 billion years to come, can he ever beat God?

You guys need to wake up and at least verify what you are taught...... thats a major benefit of being human

Zhul-fiqar:
Imagine verse 5:55 was revealed in honor of Umar (Allah forbid) to be our "master" after Allah and the Prophet (s)? Sunnis would have hanged that verse around their necks till Qiyamah!

are you being predictive here or suspecious of the Sunnis. May most High God in his mercy forgive us and guide us aright. right is evident from wrong and whoever does either of the two does it for his own soul.

What the Quran taught is to be Muslims and not sunni ar shia, and Muslims aught to come together and reason. Sincerity in reasonong together is very important and whoever is deceitful does such to his own soul.

Going by deeds, actions and believes, I am not Shia and i also cannot claim to be sunni. I am and i pray to remain a Muslim Sincere to the Message of the Quran and teaching of the Prophet. May God make it easy, grant us his mercy and understanding. Most importantly, make it easy for us to put foward good deeds that will be beneficial for us on the Great day.

can you please explain this verse - Qur’an 18:83-86—And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say: “I shall recite to you something of his story.” Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people?.

While we know we have Hadiths that cannot be trusted and i believe that Shaitan in his schemes would have mixed these hadiths up such that we cannot separate all authentic hadiths from the false ones. It leaves us with 2 things: Our judgement, without bias, with sincererity and truthfulness- We are created with the power to diffrentiate wright from Wrong - its a great tool. also, we have the Quran- The message given to Muhammed (saw). even the Quran has to be interpreted with sincererity and it matters what way you understand it. (sometimes, Quranic explanation is idiomatic and such cases should always be obvious)

What do we know about solat but that it is a ritual right, a responsibility. Pray as if you are in front of your Lord, as if he sees you. We know of a sohaba, the story that when he was praying, a substance that pierced into his feet was removed and he did not know it- Praying with full concentration. This is expected of a muslim when you are in front of your Lord.

The message of the Quran was evident in the live of the Prophet. The prophet lived the Quran lets forget about who brought this Hadith, it is fundamental in a muslims belief to know this except to say that the Prophet would have lied or is an Hypocrate (may God forgive us and Bless the Prophet) so i have a Question here - Should a muslim think that the prophet Muhammed will advise someone to perform another act while praying - to shift attention from prayer in the course of praying?

consider that any action in the Quran that is not conditioned is permisible for muslims to do. but the Quran will not contradict itself nor will the prophet contradict the Quran - so the easiest way to validate an Hadith is to check the Quran (as shaitan is at liberty to mess up with the Hadith as its just another history book like the Bible- God in his mercy to guide man has promised to protect the Quran from such)

With all being read, Qur’an 18:83-86 above shows us that idomatic expressions are used in the Quran so i ask a Question, what should be a muslims opinion (sincere in thought and judgement) about Quran 5:55?
Could most High God have given us a reason to give alma while praying as this action is not conditioned based on some claims, or could it have been a verse that teaches moral expectations of a muslims and what to look for in people to be appointed as leaders?

Zhul-fiqar:
@tbaba

What does the below verse means to you,and what does the highlighted part means?

Quran 5:55-the Verse of Wilayah

"Only Allah is your Wali and His Messenger and those who believe and keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow".

Note: "Wali" is the singular of "awliyaa".it can mean friend,protector,guardian and MASTER.

i sincerely think it says"...pay the poor rate while they humble themselves(with humility)" it is similar to the verse that teaches about giving with the right hand while the left hand does not know of it.

May most high God in his mercy guide us aright, grant us understanding of his message and grant us his mercy

Zhul-fiqar, please tell me, can i give sadaqah while praying.... if Someone did this once and God recognised him well as you claim with this verse (5:55), can i do the same?

also did you ever think of it if Alli (ra) would be concentrating in his prayers to be able to give sadaqah while praying? will this be an example for the ummah to follow? I believe there is a misunderstanding here. Why do you refuse to think of "bow" in that verse as humility or is it not a possible option?

maclatunji: As a Muslim man, how would you advice a Muslim to react under this scenario?

As a Muslim women, would you accept this woman as a co-wife or ask your husband to ignore her and the need for his neices and nephews to have a stable home with his input and the emotional stability of their mother?

If he likes her and with the consent of his wife, he can marry her. This is the Beauty of Islam - light to the world - the widow will be happy, the 5 children will have a home and be sure of a healthy life(at least) the wife will get her reward ........ and who says the man must have intimate relationship with the widow.

HOW ELSE WILL THE WORLD BE A BETTER PLACE?

This is different from the case of a young man with a young wife having the urge to marry another wife.... usually i ask, is he really lowering his gaze or does he not fear that he may not be able to deal justly with the two wives?/.... MAy God in his mercy guide us aright.

lol....... "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD..." please WHAT WAS THE WORD THAT WAS WITH GOD IN THE BEGINNING
tell us the exact word that was with God as written in Genesis

proo212: I do not know if the OP is an Atheist, Jehovah's Witness or a Muslim. I would want to lean on the second two because Atheist do not normally ask these type of questions.

@Geewan, please tell me why Allah had to declare that Mohammed is a warner/prophet

because that is what he is. and the Muslims have been warned verry well not to praise Muhammed like the Christians have praised Jesus to the point of calling him God. Even Jesus himself relates in the bible that he was sent by his father in heaven adn that he can do nothin save by Gods will. People capitalise on just few verses that Jesus and God are one and Ignore the several that says Jesus is only running an errand. very funny.

The Muslims worship Most High God who created the Heaven and the Earth and to him belong the dominion of all that exist. Some say the Muslim God is different from the God Jesus refered to in the Bible (first it means Jesus did not refer to himself as God) but please ask such person if that is what the Muslim Believe or what they think? The God of the Muslims is the God of Abraham.

Another person above says the Quran and the Bible teach different things and God can not be confused. Please ask him who authored the Bible or if it desccended from heaven like the muslims claim of the Quran. A friend of mine did not even know who was the writer of Exodus.... ask Google and you will see it arguably cannot be Moses.........
..........May most high God in his mercy guide us aright.

My point is this, people may have explained this verse, i think (and dont tell me we dont think in religious matter cos islam is about thinking) Ali (ra) will not shift attention in a prayer from Allah (swt) i at least find it hart to believe.

LagosShia: That is a very good point and observation raised.

The verse starts with "innama",which carries an order,authority or an enforcement/restriction.



The phrase "while they bow" refers to a particular event.giving zakat while you bow in salat is not a rule in Islam nor a recommended act in the shariah.it was Imam Ali (as) who was bowing (ruku) in salat when a beggar entered the mosque pleading for sustenance.it was Imam Ali (as) who stretched his hand and offered his ring to the beggar.then this verse was revealed confirming his Wilayah upon the believers in par with the Wilayah of Almighty Allah (swt) and His Prophet (sa).and some people want us to believe that Imam Ali (as) is just another believer friend like any other.ridiculous!

there is an order here if we care to notice
"Certainly your Wali is
(1.) Allah
(2.) and His Messenger
(3.) and those who believe (in the Prophethood of Muhammed (saw) and his message)
(4.) who eshtablish prayer (to belief obviously is a criteria to observe prayer)
(5.) and give charity while they bow..." (giving charity in humility is explained severally in the Quran and in Hadiths) how do you tell me this is referenced to Ali (ra) besides 2 other group are described first before Ali if you will notice it. Though he may Qualify for the numbers 3 and 4 as well but your claim that he is refered to in number 5 above will have to place some other people in number 3 and 4.

dont mind me. It is just not reasonable that the verse refers to Ali(ra) Hadith may support it but it was on this same forum that i realised hadiths that contradict themselves. It only reminds us to use logic and Quran verse when referencing hadiths.

A question i will want to ask is this, how does being Shia affect the 5 pillars of Islam? I also dont think islamic faith is tied to believe in Imamate but in the shahadah (THERE IS NO GOD BUT MOST HIGH GOD ANAD MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER AND PROPHET). If there are questions about Imamate, how is it relevant to my faith?

Dont just act because others around you do, that way, when you get elsewhere, it may look like a burden..... kind of

Sisters should please understand the reasons behind using a Hijab and be convinced about it. It is not just a symbol for being a muslim it is more than that. With the conviction, there will be no reason to step backwards except ofcourse- being Lazzy. May God in his mercy guide/guard us aright.

"Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow..."

there is an order here if we care to notice
"Certainly your Master is Allah
and His Messenger
and those who believe
who eshtablish prayer
and give charity while they bow..."


... could the phrase "while they bow" not also mean "with humility"? .....they give charit with humility (not proud nor feel pumpous about it)

my thoughts.... honest thought

a beautiful and open writeup. people with intentions of doing things for islam during its trying period....... where do i fall! what are we doing in similitude

to remain blind and deaf is actually a choice. may most High God in his mercy guide us aright

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deols: yeah!

ask me all d questions. am I free, like a bird?


or like a flag?

lol....... birds get lost, fall into traps, become prey...... better not like a bird

thank God for ISLAM

TCD: We don't see you jokers making this same amount of noise when Islamic Terrorists crash planes into buildings and blow up innocent people in the name of Allah. Jeez, Talk about dangerous mindset.

You people really need to get your priorities right.

you are wrong. Muslims talk about it and condemn the act but so many people including you(with reference to your comment above-appologies) though you hear/see but you give attention to what you like only and ignore such condemnations.

Parnassuss: These are kinds of idiots that have kept Islam in the 14th century till date. Most likely, he is hypocrite externalizing his on shortcomings

That other religions change with time does not mean Islam must follow suit. Islam is a religion of "all time" so let all who try to "modernise" islam or practice "modernized" islam know that they are only moving away from it.

do not abuse others(religion) so they do not abuse your(religion)............. must someone make a comment about someone who made a comment about goldie? especially when it will most likely bring this kind of mis-interpretation and discussion. I think we should remind/teach/advice ourselves without making reference of objects. It definately will be better for all.

May most High God in his mercy reward us all in good and help us to be better muslims - one who submits totally to Gods will

sasview: "O ye who believe! Enter into Islam whole-heartedly; and follow not the footsteps of the evil one; for he is to you an avowed enemy. If you lapse back after the clear verses that have come to you, know that Allah is the Almighty, the Wise". (Al
Qur'an 2:208-209)

"The evil one" as used is satan who deceives in many ways.

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