₦airaland Forum

Muhammed (saw) the ORPHAN
Muhammed (saw) the EMPLOYEE
Muhammed (saw) the MERCHANT
Muhammed (saw) the FATHER (has children)... taught about duties of father to children.
Muhammed (saw) the EMPLOYER
Muhammed (saw) the LEADER
Muhammed (saw) the "DOCTOR"...LOL
Muhammed (saw) the "SCIENTIST"....LOL
Muhammed (saw) the SOLDIER.... TAUGHT THAT A STATE CAN DEFEND ITSELF HONOURABLY, GODLY.
......
BUT IN ALL, HE WAS MOST HIGH GOD`S MESSENGER. WHO LIVED FOR 63 YRS, PASSED THE MESSAGE FOR 23 YEARS.

HE THAUGHT IN/ABOUT MANY ASPECTS OF HUMAN LIFE AND LIVED WHAT HE TAUGHT. PERFECT EXAMPLE FOR MAN.

in whatever condition man finds himself, there was an example in the life of Muhammed (or that of people around him)......

LagosShia: 1.) Ibn Qutaybah in al Imamah wa al Siyasa page 14 records that:

"Fatima said 'When I meet my father the Prophet (s), then I shall complain about the both of you (Abu Bakr and Umar), and said to Abu Bakr 'By Allah I shall curse you after every Salat".

2.)Sahih Ibn Hibban:

"Fatima (ra) approached Abu Bakr asking him for her inheritance from what Allah (swt) bestowed upon his Prophet (s) and Fatima (ra) sought the alms of Rasulullah (s) in Madinah and also Fadak and remaining khums of Khaibar. Ayesha narrates that Abu Bakr said: ‘The family of Muhammad (s) can only eat from this money nothing else and I shall not divert an iota from the practice of the Porphet (s)’.....Abu Bakr refused to give Fatima any of it so Fatima was angry and disappointed with Abu Bakr and she never spoke to him until she died. Fatima (ra) survived the Prophet (s) by six months, when she died Ali (ra) buried her at night forbade Abu Bakr from attending her burial, When Fatima (ra) passed away people's views altered about Ali (ra) that disappointed him he hence sought to heal the rift with Abu Bakr and pay allegiance to him and he had not paying allegiance during these months… ."

I think the property here is for worldly gain, i remember an hadith that relates that "Fatima knew she will die soon after the prophet- When Muhammed(saw) said he will die, she was sad then he told her something in her ear and her face gloomed there was an hadith that explained why her face gloomed, she will join her father soon)...... I think for such a person, duniya will be least of her concern.
also, i dont think Fatima (ra) will mention causing Abubakr after every salat. The prophet will not do that and also it is not Islamic (return evil with that which is better) so i strongly believe the hadith ....."Fatima said 'When I meet my father the Prophet (s), then I shall complain about the both of you (Abu Bakr and Umar), and said to Abu Bakr 'By Allah I shall curse you after every Salat". is not authentic. Fatima(ra) is one of the best Muslims.

@lagosshia, the verse about sunni hiding d truth is a general verse and an example of it is d people of the book. "....do not hide d message for a small gain- not a direct Quote".
it sincerely is not convincing that sunnis are concealing the truth cos of all u said, there is a sunni version too. it is left for one to study both being open minded nd logical abt it. anyone who conceals d truth(as regards the message of islam) in d used context has simply left d fold of islam. but there some things one cannot be sure of, stay away from it for one may be making a wrong conclusion.

i checked Q:33-33. it actually should be 32-34. and it was revealed abt the wives of the prophet. so the wives if i go by you should be of "pple of d house". .. which aisha is among. could they hv been sinless?

BetaThings: Who is a Nasibi? Is he the one who treats Ali (RA) as one of the rightly guided caliphs? If a man has 4 sons and he names them Abu Bakr (RA), Umar (RA), Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA), is he still a Nasibi

I see a similarity between the Christian position and Shia position here
To a christian, a Muslim who regards Jesus (AS) as a prophet insults Jesus (AS) because the Christian wants a prophet elevated above his peers to the position of God
Similarly to a Shia, a Muslim who regards Ali (RA) as one of the rightly-guided caliphs insults Ali (RA) because the Shia wants a sahaba elevated above his peers to the position of an infallible being

exactly, maybe its true/false... but the reasons are not convincing i`d state.

goofie: i really want to bliv dts we serve d same God.i really do.bt d excuses for the violent acts makes it difficult cos its so unlike d God i know

There is no excuse for violence. but instead of blaming it on MUslims, why not let the law take its course?

rawtruth: ghazzal:

How did "Sodom & Gomorrah" a good reference Start, was it overnight or that people influence people with time and it became a norm. it is important we check ourselves else God`s wrath is much more severe. Not that VIOLENCE is good but let the target audience know the truth (of what is blasphemy) and that it is bad.... If we keep Quiet that God we fight for himselve, majority will be in the LOST FLOCK by then.............. "SODOM & GOMORRAH" in the making.......

some people are scared of God`s wrath and will distance themselves from it by all ACCEPTABLE, possible means. if some of them go beyond the acceptable limit, they also need to be checked.


rawtruth:

The Bible account of Sodom & Gomorrah did not indicate that God "commissioned" humans to carry out the destruction; God's Angel did it.

And, Christ's emphasis on LOVE & Forgiveness, which form the basis for man's happy and peaceful stay here on earth and in the beyond, contain all that humans require for reconciliation and harmony. Therefore, those who are "scared of a SODOM in the making" have no justification, whatsoever, resorting to coercive means to influence others to avoid the perceived 'impending doom'.

The truth is that there exists an indecipherable ambiguity in Islam which has given birth to such diverse and unending conflicts within its ranks, with attendant effects on others.

I suppose the post is very clear, cos its so easy to mis-interprete information willinly.
No one supports killing/violence, OK. if anyone commits a crime, there is a law in the Land. The information simply put is : To live peacefully, we must check ourselves...ditto the police and the civilians) is it not love to caution those who do wrong in a society.

Why not tell the authorities to scrap the military cos LOVE & FORGIVENESS is sufficient ... SMH.

"indecipherable ambiguity" as stated above that you cannot explain means it is beyond ur comprehension...... it explains that your input is simply without information...

bukatyne: u are all lucky that you re blasphemying against God the Father and God the Son. u know we ll say God can fight for Himself. However, don't blaspheme against God the Spirit because u wouldn't be forgiven.

reasons to be a muslim is logical but christianity is not-faith in an erronous bible
scientic facts support Quran but since the bible does not hv such, christians turn to find non-logical reasons to argue against the quran .
islam is not just a religion but a way of life... again they say it lacks freedom.
because the bible has errors nd its being pointed out, they say a book of 1 autor is more vulnerable to error...again they bring non reasonable proofs
while they just mention heaven, paradise in islam is too beautiful than the mind can comprehend but they blaspheme of 72 wifes without source
because christianity is about a cross, they again blaspheme that muslims worship crest/moon/black stone/ancient arab idol... without proof.
muslims worship daily but they, weekends then they say islam is punishment
muslims fast though its also in d bible that it is general in9th month but they say Allah is wicked
though Hausa/arab christians call Allah, they blaspheme that Allah is not the unique God without proof.
.....we can go on and on. but the point is does it still require logic/proof/verified info to argue a point? no. instead they refer to the few bad eggs among muslims then generalise, ISLAM, Gods Gods declared religion, the religion that is most blasphemed against yet fastest growing. Sincerely, you may think you appreciate God but in Islam, God is appreciated in everything, everytime and in all circumstace.

bukatyne: u are all lucky that you re blasphemying against God the Father and God the Son. u know we ll say God can fight for Himself. However, don't blaspheme against God the Spirit because u wouldn't be forgiven.

oh! so the 3 is not in 1 in this case..... soon, you will get to know

ghazzal: @lagosshia i was trying to reply but has upload limit. i have reservations so i will reply soon without coating

Im of no group but to be among the only 1 of 72 groups that is truely guided, one must be informed.

"History" is the only thing that has mislead the pple of the book. The information you can never tell the truth of it, a scheme perfectly played in the past is "HISTORY". i hate history so i dont refer to it except in this case, with reference to Quran/Hadith. We believe the Quran is God`s word cos of the Miracle in it(information no man can have knowledge of(it even debunked HISTORY), We believe Hadith cos it conforms with the Quran of its logical with reference to Quranic teachings else, Im sorry!

1a: Imamate is a prove to the Christians that Muhammed is a Prophet because the Promise of God will always come to past. If Imamate is true, and no one can outwit Gods plan,and leadership is not only spiritual, then the only logic is to conclude that Abubakr/Umar/Uthman also have their root from Abraham. else, how can man scheme and outwit Gods promise, that is not possible-non islamic idea.

that their leadership has issues could be a test from God. it is not a reason to conclude that they are not meant to be Leaders. History Im sorry can not be taken hook-line-sinker its dangerous. If the act/Word is not of Muhammed, its definately history, and the truth can nt be verified.

Also the verse for the ones that pray and give Sakat, maybe it was revealed cos of Ali(RA) was it only for Ali, Its applicable for all Muslims i suppose. Thats why if we want to pray Jammah, we seek for the best among us!.

1b. The last link is under construction. The Quran teaches that Truth must be told even if it is against oneselve, also Muslims are meant to stand against opression in the Land. Based on the two above, i think that Ali`s fear for not to change what the prophet said is not good enough a reason. If its true, he aught to have exposed them-that is Islam and worst is they will kill him and im sure he will like to be a matyr. Again most of these are history. also if he is scared that the Ummah will divide (though they all at a time were under his command) those who started this division in Islam have not respected that Fear of his or followed his leadership example.

3: Last that i know, only God is perfect. he created the angels to ONLY obey his command/instruction so i may want to say angels are infallable. The Quran says... if we had sent angels to you, we would not have given you respite even for a day (not exact Quotation) From the verses, if realy Muhammed(saw) were perfect(infallible) like an angel, would man have been given respite?, Why does MUhammed have to be forgiven (past/future sins-must be minor) and he was grateful and he still will not make heaven but with God`s grace/mercy- If God is truely just and Muhammed is infallible, God will not forgive him for God does not decieve and Muhammed does not need grace to make heaven cos God is JUST. Also, there are places in the Quran that God corrected Muhammed(saw) this shows he is man but guided -The best of mankind does not equal "only perfect of mankind".... im not convinced: May MOST HIGH GOD in his mercy guide us aright.

I sincerely have not read in the Quran or seen/heard of any Sunah that mentions "mahdi" i wist to know about it, very similar to Ahmadiyya belief. What i think is: the concept of "MAhdi" is a similar prophecy like Jesus and should be evident in islam (Quran and Sunnah) not just History. Pls give an Hadith cos Islam is not about History

but validating Quran/Sunnah with History.

Like I stated before and you also stated, Sunnishave fake hadiths...so! If an Hadith is against Quranic teachings, it is void(my best hadith) so you first need to make known how the Quran supports the Hadith for relevance.( i remember the popular hadith of a hadith-narrator who was deciving a donkey/horse with food, and the hadith collector saw the act, this i believe is only 1 of many that God made muslims see how about those that were not seen and the hadith was collected and recorded: Shaitan has been working for long)

in hadith al-manzila,the Prophet Muhammad (sa) is reported to have said Imam Ali (as) is to him what Prophet Harun (as) was to Prophet Musa (as) except there is no prophet after him (i.e. Prophet Muhammad).now this is not hard to identify what Harun (as) was to Musa (as) because the Quran makes it clear what Harun (as) was to Musa (as).... Does that make the others less pious?

"As for unity,caliphate is a worldly aspect of imamate.divine imamate encompasses both the spiritual and the worldly aspects of leadership.caliphate on the other hand deals only with political or worldly leadership/rulership.with or without caliphate a divine imam chosen by Allah (swt) is an imam.likewise whether or not people reject a prophet like the jews reject both Jesus (as) and Muhammad (sa) and Jesus (as) never held political leadership,they're still prophets of Allah (swt).whether christians believe in the prophethood of Muhammad (sa) or not,he is still a mercy unto mankind because he accomplished what he was sent for and followed the will of Allah (swt).likewise in imamate,the 12 Holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) acted as divine guides for the muslim ummah,propagating the true teachings of Islam and the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (sa).even though the caliphate was usurped,the 12 Imams (as) never refused to offer guidance and knowledge to the muslims.we see this exemplified by Imam Ali (as) during the reign of abu bakr and umar.Imam Ali (as) would offer guidance for the benefit of the ummah of Muhammad (sa) and that should not be seen as approval of the caliphates of abu bakr and umar.also,a reason why the Imams did not raise the sword to fight for the caliphate is for two main reasons:

1. For them not to instigate civil war among the muslims and be seen as responsible for shedding the blood of muslims and dividing the ummah.

2. Imamate is bestowed upon them by Allah (swt).so whether people believe or disbelieve as in the case of prophethood that will not change anything.Allah (swt) has given humans the freedom to believe or disbelieve and the Quran states "let him who wills believe and let him who wills disbelieve".[/quote]"

Who then divided the Ummah as the Imams have tried to avoid it. Again, if claim of Imamate is the Promise to Abraham as claimed, why are aerlier caliphs not related to Muhammed. cos they could be distant relatives similar to Jesus/Muhammed(RA)....... all im saying is there is no valid claim, Abubakr`s plot can not null Gods promise. So if there is a promise of Imamate, Abubakr is related to Rasul and they both dont know afterall, God knows all, if there is no promise, then they need not be related.

MAY GOD IN HIS MERCY GUIDE US TO THE RIGHT PATH. AMEN

@lagosshia i was trying to reply but has upload limit. i have reservations so i will reply soon without coating

For those who can think, TRUTH IS CLEAR FROM FALSEHOOD. AND WHEN TRUTH APPEARS, FALSEHOOD DISAPEARS.

@tbaba, thanks for the info on what id call "free will and free choice".

@lagosshia, you can give the material also answer the questions.

Kay 17: I think the Devil provides a reason for God to be relevant.

Islam being a copycat, adopted the dualism.

@Kay 17. if islam claims believe of past prophets(noah, ...abraham, moses..etc) and that the ways of God does not change. do you expect a different thing. it has a reaffirmation of the truth of the past before it so if you say that is copy, u choose to see it so

see hoe you live in a foly of blasphemy md self deceit.
there is only one God we all at least think we worship but in different ways. the question is how does God wants to be worshiped. Do some even know this God? read and study.
some of your lies is 72wives in heaven but u can never tell your source-cheap blasphemy.
i advise u read and make good/logical conclusion. time they say is no friend pf man.

when a man is se.tenced in d court of law, it makes the court a terorist zone. smh

the concept differs in islam
angels are created by God from light and they have absolute obedience to Gods orders(without free choice). Shaitan is created from fire and has freedom of choice so he was/is not an angel. Jins are created from smoke of fire with freedom of choice. when God created man from sand with free choice and ranked him above them all, shaitan kicked against it claiming he is better than man in all ramification. he can only do that cos he is created with free choice. this being disobedience to God, he was sent down from heaven. he agreed but asked God to spare his life and that he will make all effort to mislead man against Gods will for man. Then God gave him respite nd made it known that shaitan and those who heed to shaitans ways as against Gods will be punished.
for those who obey Gods will, satan do not have power over them.
satan makes man enemy of man. decieves man to commit crime of all sorts nd to disobey God. everything that happens to man is with Gods knowledge and it is a test to identify the righteous. an example: the child born into the rich home and the other in the poor home one should ask if God is being fair to the later but both comes with its challenges nd different opportunities. The knowledge of God cannot be comprehended. Good and bad are by him to keep a balance and to test man for which of them is best in deed. Satan can influence the poor guy to steal from the rich one-poverty is a test for d poor guy and stealing from the rich is a test for d rich-what will be his reaction. Satan can influence our thinking and play tricks on us but everything good or bad that happens to man is by God and both are to test for those who are best in deed.
I just shared an islamic perspective.

sorry cos ive been away
@lagosshia, what is imamate and what makes it a fundamental in islam
2, did Ali (ra) use' words' for his predicessors
3, Everyman is fallable. i never heard of umar not being fallable even if it is said, i dont believe that. the Quran is clear on that. so what is the basis of "infallability" in shai belief.
4.. do shai see sunni as being astray or just havin wrong info that makes them support those is wrong besides which "all muslims are same"
5, also as in the other tread, what is it about "the last imam (shia) comming back before Jesus.

6. If Allah (swt) mentions protecting the Quran, the hadith is very vulnerable. not all should be trusted. so the past is hard to be validated. except there is an authentic hadith that says Alli accused Abubakr... its is safe to let those issues be afterall it does not add to my faith nor reduce it but can only promote hatred. In islam, we stand against injustice so Alli must have said something. We share love so if all is true as you said, Fatima/Alli will be willing to forgive like the prophet all his life-it is about the unity of muslims....

Jenwitemi: How to resolve the puzzle? Who says i care about resolving that puzzle? There are much more important puzzles to resolve in this every day life than that.

every puzzle meant to be resolved is timed. i hope you dont get trapped in this 4 time is goin.
@image123, the basis of anything should be logic. applying reasoning will help separate truth from falsehood then faith will make sense. remember that what makes a fool is faith without reasoning.

F00028: according to sunni traditions the hypocrites were already identified plus he (SAW) left clues by which to I.d later ones.

my question was in relation to Prophet's (SAW) core group. keep in mind this was the last Prophet whose message is last till the end.

i undetstand that but according to islamic teachings, eveyone will be tried even the prophets core group. the prophet (saaw) is the only example for mankind with special guidiance. If he can tolerate this pple, what should we do......... beteween the shades of black nd white are some matters not clear, they should be avoided. cos only Allah knows it all. again just my sincere opinion.

F00028: don't the shia only accept 3, though some books add Abu Musa al Ashari?

what kind of God will aid his last Prophet against all his external enemies and him with the more dangerous internal? did he not know?

[29:2] Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and they will not be teated.- the message was sent wholly and the great enemy of man will definately begin to find a way to cause mischief/hatred/division. there were hypocrites even before the prophet died. so the mischief maker has always been around. this is one of the tests after 23 years of education...success in it is definately the ultimate success. may most high God in his mercy guide us to success. amin

@lagosshia,tbaba-thanks for the education and. ur time. may Allah reward us nd guide us aright.
as i will read the link from tbaba, i just read some other sources too.
my opinion.concerning Abubakr also is. he has responsibility on Fatima to protect her interest mainly in the hereafter for this life is secondary. The prophet will most likely do the same(saaw).
going by the life of Alli as a caliphate, i read the shai disposition on it and it is clear that he did not say catigorically that his predessors have been unjust or insincere. Allah knows best.
I also read in another post that some leaders are infallable-but it came to mind the hadith of the Propher (saaw) that no one will make paradise but by Allahs mercy, nd he was asked "including you rasulullah" and he answered yes, even me. this says the prophet is man nd can fall but Allah guides whom he wills aright.

.hahahaha

wiegraf: Did you read the thread before making this post?
The sun evolves?
Are you trolling? That would better, else your ability to comprehend stuff would be...

@lagosshia, im reading though i dont know whose version i hv. according to d battle of the cammel, its great Alli(ra) was able to calm the tide but he still gave Aisha(ra) regard. why do shias now disregard her?

Image123: Hopefully, your deductions will not lead to your destruction then.

Do you think what you know is true?, if you want to learn, learn from the source and not "competitors"

There are websites for christianity by Christians, Islam by muslims Buhism by budhist... , Freethinkers have a site too but we already established there is an "inteligent source".
when christians give information of Islam and Muslims give info of christianity, it is left for the user of the information to verify such information. Ideally, in a world of competition, i wont expect any to say the truth about the other......... this is a sincere thought so verify such info with LOGIC

Image123: But everything someone knows can be a lie right?

YES. "very" YES. so one needs to open the mind, the eyes and the ears (no wonder they are designed in 2s while d mind is abstract "e-mind"...lol). The Key to the TRUTH is LOGIC, then we can talk of faith......... again, to apply LOGIC, you have to LEARN.

Image123: what if everything i know is true? how about that possibility?

its possible. but everything everyone knows cannot be true. some will realise what they know is not true........LEARN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN

tbaba1234: ^
“That was a nation who has passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned and you of what you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do” [al-Baqarah 2:134].

@tbaba, very valuable Quote

A causin of my Wife said he is sunni, and i wondered what really is sunni, Shia (never really cared)he is dead now(may God forgive his sins

".....This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion........" Q5:3 It says that day Islam became perfect... any addition, subtraction, modification is not needed... and we know that Allah rewards all for what we do. That day, there was no Sunni/Shia. Sahabas should be leaders according to the Life of the Prophet and not a reason to divide Islam. If truely "according to LagosShia, Some Sahabas fall in character", how does that affect my Relationship with my God?
This is my thinking.... or maybe we need another group that will pick islam from "Q5:3" (or better when Rasulullah (SAW) died) again and not care of what happens between then and now. cos this is very synonymous to "Jesus died on the cross" the truth was not known until the Quran came. How do we know THIS "truth" but to avoid what is not clear (colour btw black and white)....... Lets embrace all good teaching and remain brothers in Islam... I think The Prophet will LOve That




but i would love to learn to know what was the main issue. not to join a side (inshaAllah) cos id rather not judge with History... one good lesson from History

Jenwitemi: Not to religionists aka christians it isn't. They have automatically arrived at the conclusion that Mr Yahweh Jehovah, the demented barbarian on the pages of the OT bible, is the first cause. Blasphemy. Personally, i have no problem accepting that there is an intelligent mind behind the creation. But common sense told me a long time ago that that intelligent mind could never ever have been the bible OT m.o.r.o.n god.

So how do you plan to resolve the puzzle of who this "inteligent mind" is or what it looks like, Im sure you will like to ask what is the Motive of the BEAUTIFUL WORK. and i hope it is evident enough that this "inteligent mind" is much wiser/Smarter than science - else we are just discovering what has been billions of years

Jenwitemi: What if that "first cause" isn't the bible god? What then?

Thats another Level. Thats what we are here to establish, thats why we have to keep an open mind, thats why we have to search for knowledge to the farthest place. BUT to start with, we need to Establish the High Probability of a beginning being initiated by Something (and maybe for a purpose cos it looks too organised to be without reason)

Question: Why "evolution", What was the origin of the assumed "ancestor", when there was "nothiness" as claimed, what was the source of the universe? also if i may ask, what did the sun evolve from and what will it evolve to. do you have information of another universe............


isnt it funny how science use simulation, assumptions, ... to give theory of a past and people believe hook,line and sinker but when same science predict the future and the prediction did not come to past(or not as predicted) what should such person believe about the theory of past event/time that cannot be verified....

ghazzal: oh! you think there is something beyond knowledge? like what if i may ask

while you answer that, scientific study is using what you know systematically with principles to increase your knowledge. It is not moving away from God unless you define is as such (personal). in fact, it helps appreciate God more ...(i.e so the earth is floating/spins in space and we are all around it) awe! id say

or do you think the way everything complement themselves around you is just a fluke, it has been like that for years which is a sign of ballance. what keeps this ballance without need for callibration?

the universe/the earth/.....Life is.... simply put "A PERFECT DESIGN" by a PLANNER full of WISDOM.....

MacDaddy01: Scientific knowledge is moving away from god or gods.

We cant know what is beyond knowledge.

oh! you think there is something beyond knowledge? like what if i may ask

while you answer that, scientific study is using what you know systematically with principles to increase your knowledge. It is not moving away from God unless you define is as such (personal). in fact, it helps appreciate God more ...(i.e so the earth is floating/spins in space and we are all around it) awe! id say

MacDaddy01: Paradox.

How can you know what is beyond your knowledge?

I expect that this topic implies... "at a future time" which one gets to know. so at that point, its no more beyond ones knowledge.... really, at a time, we all will get to know (what is fact/truth) or do you think we will remain ignorant forever?.... this i think is what the topic refers.
so it is only reasonable to view things from others` point of view before applying LOGIC. its important to apply LOGIC but do you see what i see or you just dont care to see what i see? It is fair that you compare what i see with what you think.... then LOGIC will make sense.