₦airaland Forum

Bidam: Thank you sir! For bringing fresh insight into tithing.

Just like joagbaje as stated i believe that the principles of TITHES AND OFFERINGS are legitimate kingdom dynamics and their practice must be based on the principles of Loyalty and Covenant rather than blind obedience.

God bless you richly sir!

ajayikayod: [s]Bro, we ar talking about faith here not. In Gen 12, a word (promise) was giving and he followed by faith.
But on giving tithe, u r still to show me whr Abraham tithe by faith. U placed ur claim on assumptions dt he did all in faith, which is not tru. If u follow d events by which he tithe u ll kno d following in sequence.

1. Abraham won a war and brought back spoils of war
2. Several kings come visiting becos of d great deliverance Abraham has experienced (unique victory)
3. Melchizedek as king and priest of MH met him and celebrated wit Abraham (brought bread/wine), definately not to collect share.
4. "When departing" He blessed Abraham afterwards Abraham gave him tenth of all (spoils). (note: italized text my own emphasis)

I giv a simple scenerio here.
A fellow believer experienced a breakthrough which call for great celebration. We all travelled thr to rejoice wit him, "d representativ of church" came across him too. Definately before they depart, he will want to bless d believer (Heb 7:7; d less is blessed of d better). He blessed him and in return d believer chose to offer him sometin, he chose to giv him 10% of all d spoils.

Was this a show of faith or a show of honor? [/s]

d reason i didnt bother much about Mal 3, u quoted is becos i want u 2go back and start d reading from Mal 2 mayb u will get wat was bein discussed.

To help d study u can compare ds

Zac 13:9; This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’”

1 Pet 4; you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

vs 9; But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

The refined people ar synonymous to praising God.

And by d way, its safer not to point to Mal 3 in discussing tithes not related to d Law. Becos i want to believ u kno believers ar not blessed on personal conditions.

I think d question should b, did Abraham offer sacrifice to Melchizedek?

DrummaBoy: There is no such thing as tithing by faith; it is nowhere stated in the whole of scripture. We share a similar faith with Abraham in that both of our faith justifies us before God only(Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:1-4)

There is only one reason for Hebrew 7 to mention tithing, Abraham, Melchizedek and Christ, in the same breadth: it is to show the greatness of Melchizedek's priesthood. A priesthood that is likened to that of Christ. If the writer could show that this priesthood is greater than that of Aaron, which the Jews saw as the highest religious figure in the land, then he could understand the greatness of Christ and their need to serve Him. This chapter does not teach that Christians should tithe. Such a conclusion can only be reached by an already pre-conceived tithe mindset.
Nothing in Hebrew 7 can be stated thus: "Christians or the church should therefore tithe because Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek". You may help me with one verse in Hebrew 7 that can closest to that.

There is no doubt that Malachi, like many other Old Testament text, has a prophetic dimension foreshadowing the coming of Jesus. But everything the Old Testament said about Jesus was repeated in the New Testament text. Sometimes almost word for word.

So we saw the prophecy on John the Baptist and the New Testament confirms this. We see things spoken about the ministry of Jesus and yes, the New Testament confirms that (although a whole lot of things you quoted here also speaks of Christ's dealing with Israel in the millenium when Jesus shall reign over the Jews by fire by force after they had refused his Kingship at his first coming.

But alas, the New Testament said nothing about tithes and offering, as you will have us believe this text is saying. So the tithes and offerings aspect of this chapter is not prophetic. There is only one way to see this and that is to see it as it is: Malachi is written to the Jews with prophetic dimensions, like many other Old Testament texts;

and these prophetic dimension are confirmed in the New Testament. The matter of bringing tithes and offering to the storehouse was a strictly Jewish thing and was not prophetic. The storehouse was not built by Moses but was a latter day innovation by I think Hezekiah, to store the tithes brought to the priests;

and this was "tithes of tithes" brought by the Levithes to the Priests.

So if there was not food in the storehouse, it was either the Jews were not paying their tithes, or the Levithes were not remiting the tithes of the tithes, or the Priest were not taking the 1% tithes to the storehouse.

Like I have said, a lot of things in that chapter was prophetic pointing to Christ coming and the Millennium. Others were a direct message to the Jews. The one written on Christ coming we find in the New Testament. But let me say something about God and offering, [size=16pt] God never asked for an offering from anyone [/size] until Exodus 25 under Moses. And when he did, hear Him:

1. We see God asking men to bring an offering to Him
2. but it must be free will - willingly from the heart
3. That offering becomes His
4. Of all that was listed, non of them were tithable commodity under Moses ([ b]tithes were strictly agric produce [/b] )
5. It was always for purpose

That system has not changed till date. And that is what the law of first mention means. If were God first mentioned offering, he meant it to be free will, it has not changed till this moment:

In the New Testament no offering is taken in the church, the closest to it is a collection for suffering saints in Jerusalem. For a purpose. So if we take offering in church today, we are taking a collection, hopefully for a (verifiable and accountable) purpose too.

Like I said in the beginning, there is no such thing as tithing by faith. We are justified by faith, yes. We walk by faith, yes. But tithing by faith is the invention of modern day fraudsters!

ajayikayod: Bro, pls i m trying to kno whr in d scripture dt showed dt d tithe Abraham gave was by faith, infact i could recall in Heb 11:17 dt Abraham offered Isaac by faith (a sacrifice not for cleansing but for worship).

Secondly, according to d scriptures who ar d present day priesthood of God

and since Levites priesthood dont pay but collect tithes, who then do d paying and who do d collecting in d present day church.

The sacrifices u mentioned above, do they referred to physical gifts, monetary offerings?

If u preach ds sacrifice to b physical gift then i think sometin is still missing to complete d offer and dt tin is d fire to burn d sacrifice (money, gifts).

macof: Foolish idiot Sabbath day in Israel is Saturday. It's Saturdays they worship Yahweh.

macof: Tithes is a Jewish thing as an African u dont need to pay tithes. And Its so disgusting that u worship a God dat u cannot worship with free will.

You think tithes are so important, and appease Yahweh? burnt sacrifice appeases him more, you should kill rams and read The Torah every sabbath day. that brings me to the sabbath day. You shouldn't go to church on Sundays, Only Saturdays, dont work on saturdays, dont sin, just keep it Holy

ajayikayod: Tithes? Not according to d scripture Bro,

Animals sacrifices pre-date d law too, infact pre-date Abraham. Was performed by Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Prophets, was performed for Child Jesus.

If d reason u pay tithe is becos its eternal principle and pre-date d Law, why dont u offer animal sacrifices too? We kno God accepted dt too from many. Apostles never mentioned not to do it also.


Its better we thread cautiously not to be entangled again by dt which Christ has made us free.

HumbledbYGrace: I am not anti polygamy but I would rather stay single than share a man....was just stating the facts.

Don't get it twisted please.

HumbledbYGrace: What is fornication please The only sin here is when someone is not married, if that man makes the second woman his wife then who are you to judge him?

The problem here is greet and selfishness. We all have to share, like it or not, better yet argue until Jesus Christ comes.

FYI, King Solomon didn't pay for his hundreds of wives, he paid because he let 'them' make him turn away from God.

that a man shall leave his mother and father and be JOINED TO HIS WIFE not wives, and the Two (man and woman) not 3 shall be INSEPERABLY made one flesh.
If the man 'A' is one flesh with lady B and also one
Flesh with Lady C then conversely lady B and C are
one flesh too (if A=B and A=C, then B=C), does that
sound right to you?

HumbledbYGrace: My post has nothing saying 'anti polygamy' to it, I just stated that it we shouldn't lead others to sin. Logically, see Polygamists families, as Africans we all can relate on how we were or are affected by two or more wives.

At the same time I think as christians should atleast lead a christlike life, stop beating about the bush of polygamy.[size=32pt] God never said NO to polygamy [/size] , nor was anyone most talked about in the bible so your post, even though I smh when I first saw it, deserves a star.

Those who oppose polygamy and call themselves christians needs to do some spiritual check up....

HumbledbYGrace: Excuse you Scriptures forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13).

MonsieurCoder: I understand what he typed, he is asking a simple question

ajayikayod: Agreed, we chose to abstain from all ds not becos they ar sins but so as to gain many. But ds view is absolutely diff from d Op view who claimed (biblically) curses on every polygamous family. He should be corrected not supported. Ds type of message causes problems in ppl's homes.

chukwudi44: Bros not every igbo parishes do this and I can confidently tell you that more than 99.9% of the parishes do not do this.I attended churches in the east for years and not for once did I hear anybody mention tithes let alone tithe cards.

chukwudi44: For the clown who wants to go to igbo villages to confirm the official church doctrines.This is straight from the vatican's official website the cathechism of the catholic church section 2043 which deals with members support to the church

"2043 The fourth precept ("You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church" ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.85

The fifth precept ("You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church" means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.86

The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own abilities."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a3.htm

Bidam: Lol..seriously may be the guy needs the 1k. Can we be merciful and extend the period of grace till tommorrow evening?

Oya @emmbassey..pls PM me ur acct nos dis evening.I am in a good mood to donate freely and willingly.

ukotmi: GOMBs, Bidam,some of us were serious catholics well schooled in the doctrines of the church before seeing the light. Some catholics are only catholic in name and don't know the doctrines. Some are not serious participants in activities at their home (home town) parishes. They stay in Lagos and Abuja etc and claim catholics.
Go to the igbo villages and towns and see what is happening.

Kenny4lyfe: What do you make of the three scenarios I highlighted above?
»I sure know that many nairalanders people still pray those kinda prayers over their food!
»Does physical meals/food contribute to the growth of our faith? (See scenario 3)

italo: I dont remember discussing tithe with you.

The Church doesnt teach it and the Imo story hasnt been confirmed.

I cannot judge on what I have not confirmed and without the Priests' side of the story. I'm not a Pentecostal.

The Church doesnt teach tithing. That is easily verifiable.