₦airaland Forum

Kenny4lyfe: Wow! That's my pastor @9! #evercute I love it

Bidam: could you pls answer my question before i attend to urs? Thanks.

Arcsniper: Nothing like idol.
Do you just expect me to believe in Jesus.who is he?where does he comes from?my grandfather told me that he is Jesus Christ,so i can't worship my grandfather.

If u guys weren't born as xtians am sure u wouldn't have been a xtian.most of you are xtains cos ur fathers and mothers are xtians.

.you said mcof is worshipping idols,that fine,whenever he calls on them they answer him.whenever i call on Jesus he doesn't answer.

The people performing signs and wonders got dia powers from those things u call IDOLS.
the thing u called bible,are written by people like you,they add and remove whatever you like.

OLAADEGBU: Are you still waiting for a sign?

Bidam: Can you tell us how your idol showed himself

frosbel: And this is the precise reason why you are so confused and deceived, following men and not Jesus.

DrummaBoy: @ Gombs

Hebrew 7:8 from a number of translations:



By looking at the verse 8 from other versions of the scripture, we see that the issue you wanted to make out of the matter of PLURAILITY is a non issue at all.

DrummaBoy: It all depends on the version you are using; the plurality disappears in the more original and authentic KJV, along with the NIV.

DrummaBoy: But let us even allow that that word was translated as plural. Do you realize that Melchizedek as King and Priest could not have collected tithes from Abraham alone.

DrummaBoy: In his royal and religious capacity

DrummaBoy: he would have collected tithes from other people too

DrummaBoy: whether they were giving the tithes on religious or customary bases. Also, that text makes it clear that when Abraham gave his tithes, he was not the only one giving the tithe, his descendants that included Levi, Aaron and even Jesus (from the tribe of Judah) was giving a tithe - thus the need to put that tithes in the plural.

DrummaBoy: So my friend you have not brought out anything new by showing us that something was written in the plural. To suggest that because verse 8 read:"...while there [in the case of Melchizedek], they are received by one of whom it is testified that he lives [perpetually]" , then Jesus who is of the Order of Melchizedek is now collecting tithes from Christians is to be saying something that that text never said - except, of course, on TBN. What does that text say?

DrummaBoy: Melchizedek is introduced in this text and his royal and religious role is defined, all in the bid to make one statement - that he resembled the Son of God; his office was in the order of Jesus.

DrummaBoy: Now, another point that the writer is trying to make here is to show how great this man must have been. He was king, priest, he blessed Abraham and then Abraham gave a tenth to him - he really must have been a great man!

DrummaBoy: Again making the point that this man Melchizedek was a great man but in the light of another revelation; his ministry is compared to that of the Levites - the Levites collected tithes and he is also seen here collecting tithes.

DrummaBoy: Now while Levi collected tithes, and this man collected tithes; Levi paid a tithe to this man, through his father Abraham. So this man, Melchi and Levi cannot be on the same level. Melchizedek has to be spirituallly greater than Levi to have collected a tithe from him. Now, those of us who are not Jews cannot appreciate this statement but the Hebrews does. Like in the days of Jesus, the High Priest desending from Levi, was the highest spiritual authority in the land. If anyone could show from scripture, like the writer of Hebrew is doing, that there is a higher spiritual authority, which authority is likened to that of Jesus, then they could appreciate this man Jesus. Do not forget that the Jews did not accept our Lord's ministry and in a bid to win the them to Christ, the writer here has to use an anology that they could understand - Melchizedek.

There is no way one can read these texts, without a tithe prejudiced mind, and not see this. There is nothing in that text that says or can be implied to say that "Melchizedek priesthood is in the order of Christ's and so since Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, Christians or even the Hebrews, must now pay tithes to Melchizedek or to Jesus". The truth of the matter is that NT worship is worship in the spirit. Union with Christ. The merit of our actions is found in the merit of Christ's action. If Jesus was in the loins of Abraham as a bonafide son of Judah, then Jesus paid the tithes in Abraham and he has effectively paid the tithes for us all. That is the doctrine of the NT, that everything concerning the laws of Moses and any other demand from God be it Circumcision, Sabbath, Firstfruits, Tithing, Sin offerings, etc, have been carried out by Jesus on our behalf. When we believe in Him, we identify with His righteousness and it is imputed on us. We are not under any obligation to keep these rules and regulations. All that is left of us is to follow the Spirit that commands us to walk in love. Love is giving and in this case free will giving as God established in Exodus 25 and as Paul confirmed in 2 Corinthians 9:7

DrummaBoy: This is the conclusion of the matter: Perfection has come through Jesus and we need not submit to any other order of priesthood.

DrummaBoy: In Jesus every child of God is a priest. Priest were not known to pay or give both pre and during the law and it is not going to happen after the law.

DrummaBoy: Now let me warn you before I let this matter rest because I see you Gombs as a scorner and one who loves to play to the gallery: desist from this ministry because it is a ministry of death and it earns God's wrath. Like I told Bidam in another thread (and this is not a curse or threat, I don't engage in all that kind of witchcraft) God Himself ended the levithical priesthood.

DrummaBoy: Hebrews was written in about 64AD. 70 AD the Romans got tired of the intransigence of the Jews and sent Titus to destroy Jerusalem. Just as Jesus prophesied in Luke 19 and Matthew 24, Jerusalem was ransacked and destroyed. The Jews were displaced into the nation and there was no nation called Israel on earth until 1948. By the time the Jews returned to their land, while some could trace their lineage to other tribes, no one could trace his lineage to the tribe of Levi. What that implies is that no one could act as a High Priest talk less as a levite, etc. Thier complete lineage was destroyed. It makes sense bc there cannot be two high priests in the land: Jesus and another. Now, with priest and levites, there was no one to pay a tithe to. Check it anywhere: Jews do not pay tithe today!

DrummaBoy: [b] It is then fool hardy to find those who should know better, collecting ten percent of people's salary in the name of collecting tithes. [/b]What God Himself destroyed and ensured that the laws are changed, some are trying to restore. Do you see you are on a collision course with something greater than yourself?

DrummaBoy: I rest my case. The Yorubas have a proverb: "You only tell half truth to a sensible person; when it gets into him, it becomes whole". A word is enough for the wise.

Cheers.

2. You tithe BASED ON THE LAW but turn around to claim your tithe is according to Abraham's example. Abraham didn't tithe for windows of heaven to open to him nor for him to be blessed. He was blessed and RICH BEFORE he tithe. Also, Melchizedek didn't show up to RECEIVE TITHE FROM ABRAHAM, HE SHOWED UP TO BLESS. Abraham was pronounced BLESSED first, not tithing in order to be blessed.

BARRISTERS: @Gombs

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[img]COMPARE HEBREWS 7:26-27 YOU ARE TALKING OPPOSITE,

26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself

BROTHER, JESUS DOES NOT NEED BURDENSOME FIXED OFFERINGS AGAIN BECAUSE IT WILL AMOUNT TO DUPLICATION ......"for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself"


JESUS DEATH WILL BE LOSING ITS SIGNIFICANCE IF WE STILL BURDEN OURSELF ON FIXED MATERIAL AND PHISICAL OFFERINGS AND NOT THE SPIRITUAL GOOD BEHAVIOR TO OTHERS AND SHOWING TRUE LOVE AS FINE OFFERINGS OF CONDUCT ACCEPTABLE TO THE LORD [/img]






PLEASE Gombs, STATE YOUR OPINIONS AND STOP CANCELLING OTHERS POST WHILE QUOTING THEM LIKE YOU DID TO ajayikayod

Pastor Kun: What kind of DAFT analogy is this I am even more shocked that a couple of dolts went on to 'like' the rubbish stated therein

Bidam: Thank you sir! For bringing fresh insight into tithing.

Just like joagbaje as stated i believe that the principles of TITHES AND OFFERINGS are legitimate kingdom dynamics and their practice must be based on the principles of Loyalty and Covenant rather than blind obedience.

God bless you richly sir!

ajayikayod: [s]Bro, we ar talking about faith here not. In Gen 12, a word (promise) was giving and he followed by faith.
But on giving tithe, u r still to show me whr Abraham tithe by faith. U placed ur claim on assumptions dt he did all in faith, which is not tru. If u follow d events by which he tithe u ll kno d following in sequence.

1. Abraham won a war and brought back spoils of war
2. Several kings come visiting becos of d great deliverance Abraham has experienced (unique victory)
3. Melchizedek as king and priest of MH met him and celebrated wit Abraham (brought bread/wine), definately not to collect share.
4. "When departing" He blessed Abraham afterwards Abraham gave him tenth of all (spoils). (note: italized text my own emphasis)

I giv a simple scenerio here.
A fellow believer experienced a breakthrough which call for great celebration. We all travelled thr to rejoice wit him, "d representativ of church" came across him too. Definately before they depart, he will want to bless d believer (Heb 7:7; d less is blessed of d better). He blessed him and in return d believer chose to offer him sometin, he chose to giv him 10% of all d spoils.

Was this a show of faith or a show of honor? [/s]

d reason i didnt bother much about Mal 3, u quoted is becos i want u 2go back and start d reading from Mal 2 mayb u will get wat was bein discussed.

To help d study u can compare ds

Zac 13:9; This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’”

1 Pet 4; you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

vs 9; But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

The refined people ar synonymous to praising God.

And by d way, its safer not to point to Mal 3 in discussing tithes not related to d Law. Becos i want to believ u kno believers ar not blessed on personal conditions.

I think d question should b, did Abraham offer sacrifice to Melchizedek?

DrummaBoy: There is no such thing as tithing by faith; it is nowhere stated in the whole of scripture. We share a similar faith with Abraham in that both of our faith justifies us before God only(Genesis 15:6, Romans 4:1-4)

There is only one reason for Hebrew 7 to mention tithing, Abraham, Melchizedek and Christ, in the same breadth: it is to show the greatness of Melchizedek's priesthood. A priesthood that is likened to that of Christ. If the writer could show that this priesthood is greater than that of Aaron, which the Jews saw as the highest religious figure in the land, then he could understand the greatness of Christ and their need to serve Him. This chapter does not teach that Christians should tithe. Such a conclusion can only be reached by an already pre-conceived tithe mindset.
Nothing in Hebrew 7 can be stated thus: "Christians or the church should therefore tithe because Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek". You may help me with one verse in Hebrew 7 that can closest to that.

There is no doubt that Malachi, like many other Old Testament text, has a prophetic dimension foreshadowing the coming of Jesus. But everything the Old Testament said about Jesus was repeated in the New Testament text. Sometimes almost word for word.

So we saw the prophecy on John the Baptist and the New Testament confirms this. We see things spoken about the ministry of Jesus and yes, the New Testament confirms that (although a whole lot of things you quoted here also speaks of Christ's dealing with Israel in the millenium when Jesus shall reign over the Jews by fire by force after they had refused his Kingship at his first coming.

But alas, the New Testament said nothing about tithes and offering, as you will have us believe this text is saying. So the tithes and offerings aspect of this chapter is not prophetic. There is only one way to see this and that is to see it as it is: Malachi is written to the Jews with prophetic dimensions, like many other Old Testament texts;

and these prophetic dimension are confirmed in the New Testament. The matter of bringing tithes and offering to the storehouse was a strictly Jewish thing and was not prophetic. The storehouse was not built by Moses but was a latter day innovation by I think Hezekiah, to store the tithes brought to the priests;

and this was "tithes of tithes" brought by the Levithes to the Priests.

So if there was not food in the storehouse, it was either the Jews were not paying their tithes, or the Levithes were not remiting the tithes of the tithes, or the Priest were not taking the 1% tithes to the storehouse.

Like I have said, a lot of things in that chapter was prophetic pointing to Christ coming and the Millennium. Others were a direct message to the Jews. The one written on Christ coming we find in the New Testament. But let me say something about God and offering, [size=16pt] God never asked for an offering from anyone [/size] until Exodus 25 under Moses. And when he did, hear Him:

1. We see God asking men to bring an offering to Him
2. but it must be free will - willingly from the heart
3. That offering becomes His
4. Of all that was listed, non of them were tithable commodity under Moses ([ b]tithes were strictly agric produce [/b] )
5. It was always for purpose

That system has not changed till date. And that is what the law of first mention means. If were God first mentioned offering, he meant it to be free will, it has not changed till this moment:

In the New Testament no offering is taken in the church, the closest to it is a collection for suffering saints in Jerusalem. For a purpose. So if we take offering in church today, we are taking a collection, hopefully for a (verifiable and accountable) purpose too.

Like I said in the beginning, there is no such thing as tithing by faith. We are justified by faith, yes. We walk by faith, yes. But tithing by faith is the invention of modern day fraudsters!

ajayikayod: Bro, pls i m trying to kno whr in d scripture dt showed dt d tithe Abraham gave was by faith, infact i could recall in Heb 11:17 dt Abraham offered Isaac by faith (a sacrifice not for cleansing but for worship).

Secondly, according to d scriptures who ar d present day priesthood of God

and since Levites priesthood dont pay but collect tithes, who then do d paying and who do d collecting in d present day church.

The sacrifices u mentioned above, do they referred to physical gifts, monetary offerings?

If u preach ds sacrifice to b physical gift then i think sometin is still missing to complete d offer and dt tin is d fire to burn d sacrifice (money, gifts).

macof: Foolish idiot Sabbath day in Israel is Saturday. It's Saturdays they worship Yahweh.

macof: Tithes is a Jewish thing as an African u dont need to pay tithes. And Its so disgusting that u worship a God dat u cannot worship with free will.

You think tithes are so important, and appease Yahweh? burnt sacrifice appeases him more, you should kill rams and read The Torah every sabbath day. that brings me to the sabbath day. You shouldn't go to church on Sundays, Only Saturdays, dont work on saturdays, dont sin, just keep it Holy

ajayikayod: Tithes? Not according to d scripture Bro,

Animals sacrifices pre-date d law too, infact pre-date Abraham. Was performed by Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Prophets, was performed for Child Jesus.

If d reason u pay tithe is becos its eternal principle and pre-date d Law, why dont u offer animal sacrifices too? We kno God accepted dt too from many. Apostles never mentioned not to do it also.


Its better we thread cautiously not to be entangled again by dt which Christ has made us free.

HumbledbYGrace: I am not anti polygamy but I would rather stay single than share a man....was just stating the facts.

Don't get it twisted please.

HumbledbYGrace: What is fornication please The only sin here is when someone is not married, if that man makes the second woman his wife then who are you to judge him?

The problem here is greet and selfishness. We all have to share, like it or not, better yet argue until Jesus Christ comes.

FYI, King Solomon didn't pay for his hundreds of wives, he paid because he let 'them' make him turn away from God.

that a man shall leave his mother and father and be JOINED TO HIS WIFE not wives, and the Two (man and woman) not 3 shall be INSEPERABLY made one flesh.
If the man 'A' is one flesh with lady B and also one
Flesh with Lady C then conversely lady B and C are
one flesh too (if A=B and A=C, then B=C), does that
sound right to you?

HumbledbYGrace: My post has nothing saying 'anti polygamy' to it, I just stated that it we shouldn't lead others to sin. Logically, see Polygamists families, as Africans we all can relate on how we were or are affected by two or more wives.

At the same time I think as christians should atleast lead a christlike life, stop beating about the bush of polygamy.[size=32pt] God never said NO to polygamy [/size] , nor was anyone most talked about in the bible so your post, even though I smh when I first saw it, deserves a star.

Those who oppose polygamy and call themselves christians needs to do some spiritual check up....