₦airaland Forum

@ All,

Thanks to everyone who had wished me well and congratulated me. Y'all blessed. There's very sensitive points raised by some people here, I will quote and respond to them later. God loves us all and I love y'all also. Thank y'all.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 2 Peter 1:3

Many years back, I left the motherland for the U.S nation and I have lived by faith in my new found land. The journey was rough at some point and many times, but by faith and patience carrying on by the Grace of God, I have come to appreciate the goodness and Grace of God given to me as a free gift for life and godliness. Today, the United State Citizenship and Immigration Services granted me a permanent resident (Green Card).

I share this testimony in appreciation to the gracious gift of God, which is not of works but according to the time of life. Although my story is long, rough and inspiring; I hope to share that some other times but for now, I give thanks to God for his benefits on my life. I have come a long way but only this is possible by God's Grace through faith. Glory to God!

English Standard Version (©2001)
Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift! 2 Corinthians 9:15

Bidam: we don talk am tire for other threads bro..but they are stiff necked using the words of Obadiah..dem go still come up with another argument to justify their stance. wait and see.

The kind of loopholed argument you tithe teachers argue here is dangerous twisted word of God. Anti tithers never argued that ministers of the gospel should not be supported but does it come by tithing to them or free will giving? We shall continue again making our argument from the word of God.

Ihedinobi: @Pastor Kun
@brilapluz
@Goshen360

So what exactly was the question that I was answering with that passage? Wasn't it who receives tithes now instead of the Levites and the priests? When did it become what Scriptures justify tithes/tithing?

I have answered your question, Goshen.

Okay. You've answered. You see if you said what those verses are saying or you have joined those who are of the habit of reading into that scriptures. We shall look at it together, okay.

Image123: the ministers, you know the corinthian passage even so i wonder why you are asking. Are you trying to play on people's ignorance/intelligence or what?
God help us(striklymi2).

Ihedinobi: I'm sure you two have seen them at least once. I may not be inclined to fighting over them with you. But here is one passage at least:

1Corinthians 9:7-14
7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

There you have it.

So this is where tithe\tithing was instructed in the NT right? I will deal with these scriptures as I have done in the past exposing the lies of men.

Bidam: Goshen can never answer this question till thy kingdom come..when i say they preach heresies his gang will come up with vain arguments and foolish unedifying questions .They hardly stay on one line of argument.

Bidam: You see what i mean how on earth do these verses you quoted out of context answer haibe question?

You see as I dey laugh you & haibe in tongues....

christemmbassey: my bros, d way some nigerians(christians) are attached to the law of sin and death bafles me, even the modern jews are not this agressive and welded to obey or die, i thank God for the gospel of grace odawise na so we for de carry dead body for church every day. Peace.

Man of God, you too funny o. . I can't stop laughing real hard here bro. Even what they hold so much to is called the ministry of death, 2 Corinthians 3:7....Imagine some pastor to come out and say God gave him ministry of death. Some say na deliverance ministry God called them to, I don't know where the heck they get all those things from. The more I stay with the word of God, they more I see all these nonsense in the body of Christ exposed.

JeSoul: You welcome sir . I'm here for ya'll. Besides, we wouldn't want you missing any more holy emails from Reverend Goshen.

The way you take style funny ehh, na only God fit explain that mystery o.

christemmbassey: bros why u dey laugh me na? Abi ya ancestors follow them Mos cross de red sea?

I no know say you be another funny man of God like this o, that's why I was laughing real hard....

christemmbassey: the guy never claimed to be a christian o and i never regarded him as such. He is unpretended judaizer, i dont blame him, that attitude is embeded in the law of Moses, obey or die, law of sin and death, i thank God for the gospel of grace tro Jesus. @Goshen, how far?. Still expecting you.

Yes brother. We will do the stuff tomorrow. Still expecting the mail to come...It didn't come yesterday. Perhaps you may wanna go if you're done for today. It is sure and certain tomorrow....first thing I wake up. Thanks for keeping the word alive.

Ihedinobi: Tithes, collections, material blessings from the brethren go to those who labor spiritually for the others.

Exactly, do you have scriptures for your statement ^ above?

christemmbassey: bro who are the ppl that Moses led out of Egypt tro the wilderness to the promised land? Were they nigerians?

christemmbassey: this ur proclivity to abuse makes decent discusions with u very hard, but i am a chrirtian, with the mind of Christ i can take it.

. . . that's why I stopped responding to him also. I don't understand why Christian people will have to insult others to make their point; I just can't understand.

haibe: I have only asked you a question, where did the scripture say the law of moses was given to isreal only. .I want to know.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And this is the law which Moses set before the children of Israel: Deuteronomy 4:44

New International Version (©2011)
If his father had no brothers, give his inheritance to the nearest relative in his clan, that he may possess it. This is to have the force of law for the Israelites, as the LORD commanded Moses.'" Numbers 27:11

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: Psalm 78:5

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And they found written in the law which the LORD had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month: Nehemiah 8:14

New Living Translation (©2007)
That first covenant between God and Israel had regulations for worship and a place of worship here on earth.

Expanded Bible (EXB)
The first ·agreement [covenant; contract;  given to Israel through Moses; 8:7, 13] had ·rules [regulations; requirements] for worship and a ·place on earth for worship [ earthly sanctuary/holy place]. Hebrews 9:1

Do you want more scriptures?

luluosas: If you are a true Christian and you are mindful of going to heaven then, you MUST BE PAYING YOUR TITHES, else, you can never make it. I have told you whether you believe it or not.
So, repent and amend your ways today before it's too late. God bless you all.

Where in scriptures does the word says tithe is a criteria to heaven? What kind of gospel is this?

[quote author=m.k.o2005]@Goshen,my time is up with nairaland for today.Will continue tomorow as the spirit leads ! Trust u will find my contributions so far inspiring. God bless u
God help us[/quote]Okay, no wahala my brother. If I have time tomorrow, I will respond to you and we take it gradually; one after the other. You're not doing anything to be blessed, you're already blessed in Christ. Stay blessed.

@ m.k.o2005,

I have read what you wrote but it still doesn't answer my simple and clear question. Very simple, from the word of God, who are those commanded to receive tithe TODAY....under the Church or Christian age\Grace dispensation?

MostHigh: Goshen what are the ordinances of your priesthood?

Go and study the book of Hebrews.... Leaf me alone with your insults! You want to discuss and you keep insulting others. Abeg leaf me alone joor Abi, will you send me your tithe if I tell you ni?

haibe: prove all things :1 Thessalonians 5:21.

Haven't I proved it to you before? Abeg go and study the word joor. It's not hard to get scriptures that the law of Moses was given to national Israel ONLY!....why have you come to torment me?

Zikkyy: you better be careful with this ya questioning, so you don't provoke somebody to the point where the man will pull a pistol on ya

....and yankee people dey always waka with at least one bullet...

Ihedinobi: Goshen, if you have seen me in debate, you will appreciate that I treat those I consider brethren differently. And even then, I vary approach according to the sensitivity of the issue at hand.

I ask questions to force you to think about what you are saying. I quite willing to let anyone think that I am unschooled in the Word when I disagree with them, but as far as I can, I will provoke such people to thought. Sometimes in my own questioning I have come to realize that I was wrong in what I thought, sometimes that happens because of someone else's questioning of things I thought were true.

The only people who hate to be questioned are those who are afraid to be wrong and it is only pride that inspires such fear.

Brother, I have sat in the hot seat on this forum many times and you know it. I'm never afraid to be questioned. That's the only way we could check ourselves against error. What I'm angry at is, it seems to look like a circle game when we come for discussion and need to edify Christian people but all time spent seem to look at though nothing is achieved. Well, I don't like wasting time for nothing.

The second point is, the issue of law of Moses and Grace of Christ is very clear from scriptures and what baffles me is someone like you holding to the law of Moses and presenting such to Christians. That calls for a doubt in your position. When we all say something, we all have basis from the word of God why we say what we say but when certain things are weighted carefully and rightly divided, we can all see our wrongs. I do not claim to be free from error or know it all. My thing is, the little I know, I tend to know it well so I can teach it well.

When I was thinking about this subject yesterday after our debate, the Spirit of the Lord dropped something in my heart that the problem is not now, it all started with the Judaizer Christians that wanted to force obedience to the Mosaic law on the non-Jewish Christians and that problem continued until today. Hence, if we continue in the debate, it will not end here.

Three groups the whole bible was written to and if any bible teachers cannot find the place of these three groups, then we fall into error - The Natural Israel\Jews; The Gentiles\Non-Jews and The Church\Christians. The Christian\Church is made of the two aforementioned and to do that, Christ came and destroyed the law that put the Gentiles away from the covenant of God and Christ made a ONE NEW MAN from the two groups. Therefore, both Christians and Jews are not ruled anymore by the law of Moses but by the law of Christ.

It was the Jews that never wanted to accept the finished works of Christ that the law of Moses had ended, hereby launching a ONE PEOPLE in Christ. They adhere so much to Moses and Abraham as their patriarch not acknowledging Christ had come to replace both Abraham and Moses....says the book of Hebrews. Today, if we can accept what the word simply says and find our place in the word, then much of these problems will reduce or cease. My submission to those who read us is, Christ had fulfilled the law and Christ is the end of the law of Moses and he had made a one new man in himself which he govern by his law, not of Moses. All what I say here is all rooted in scriptures but I don't wanna write too long epistle.

Thank you brother, I'm not angry anymore and I love you all. Even though we disagree on some issues, I still love everyone here because we are all one in Christ.

MostHigh: Yashua our master was a Judaizers

all the apostles are Judaizers

paul himself from all his actions (not words)is a Judaizers

Salvation is of the jews

Salvation is of the jew first

and the list goes on

Which one come be your own

There is a fearfull judgement for lawlessness

Son of Lawlessness.

[quote author=m.k.o2005]The question you should ask first should be why should i even tithe ?
God help us[/quote]Let's do the teaching one after the other. Okay, I will answer your question but you must answer mine thereafter.

Tithing in the law of Moses is a type and shadow of Christian giving.

New Living Translation (©2007)
The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. Hebrews 10:1

In the Old, it was a way of sharing and giving but because it was a law dispensation, it must be fixed, stipulated to legal percentage and then must be adhere strictly to. It foreshadowed the ministry of New Testament concerning giving and receiving. Why then must I tithe? Because the law of Moses commanded such for the law dispensation but Grace does not based sharing\receiving on legalistic\fixed percentage so I don't tithe under the New Testament but I share and give what I purpose in my heart and\or as I'm blessed.

Now, back to my question - Who are those to receive tithe today in the Church age?

[quote author=m.k.o2005]Christ was not talking to Christians in Mathew 23:23 BUT to those who are supposed to be Christains but are not becos they aren't doing what is expected of them. If Tithing was bad or an error even to the the Pharisees,scribes and all the teachers back then,Chrsit would have siad: Do not tithe you... or You think tithing is good abi ? or may who told you that tithing is important you ..... But He went on to condemn them were they fall short i.e in the area of justice,love,mercy and faith and also encouraged them to tithe on by saying 'YES YOU SHOULD TITHE'
Goshen,you may not be an advocate of tithing but i tell us that Christ can say woe to Christians who failed to do the right thing !Christ was not happy that those(Pharisees,scribes and other teachers)who should know better but failed to and only thinking that becos they tithe then they are saints. HE called them Hypocrites for tithing which must be seen by all but Justice,mercy and faith in God which were 'more' weightier are been relegated !
God help us[/quote]Okay, who are those to receive tithe or tithing today?...from the point view of the word of God.

ayoku777: Hehheeeh, you're right, that is the flaw with Ihedinobi, he doesn't express his own views and stand, he only keeps questioning yours.

The same thing he did with me yesterday and when I realized it, I stopped responding. He asks questions and when you answer him, he picks another question out of your response and keeping going in circle? Okay, tell us what the purpose of the law of Moses is still serving AFTER it has led us to Christ? He would not talk. I don't like such discussion please!

I'm off from here.

Ihedinobi: So we need the Law to comprehend Grace. What are you quarreling about then?

I'm tired of your games! Now that the Law had already made us know Grace is better. What the heck is the law of Moses still doing for you for heaven sake? What's its purpose? Hasn't it received people are sinners and that they need a Saviour by being led us to Christ already that they might be saved by Grace and the Spirit of God might then take over from there? What kind of argument is this?

@ m.k.o2005

You think Christ was talking to His Disciples\Apostles and\or the Church\Christians in that context? Then try that scripture, Matthew 23:23 in this format and see how it reads

New International Version (©2011)
"Woe to you, Disciples\Apostles of Christ and the Church\Christians, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

How does that read to you? You need to leave that context to those Christ was saying woe to and not extend it to Christians and\or the Apostles. You're going beyond what is written! 1 Corinthians 4:6

What if I tell you nobody today practice true biblical tithing as recorded in the word of God?

Numbers 18 is your answer, go and read it. It doesn't take up to 20 minutes to read it except you're too lazy to read. It tells us and is eternally clear who the Living God commanded to receive tithe - the Levites. The Levites then give a tenth part of the tithe to Aaron the Priest. Should tithing still apply to Christians today, then the church workers (equivalent of the Levites) are by the law to collect the tithe and then give a tenth part of it to the pastors (equivalent of Aaron the priest today).

The Levites and their priesthood are then abolished in the New Testament, thereby, abolishing tithing\tithe along with that Levitical priesthood. Hebrews 7:5-19. You tithe and you're still in debt! What happened to the promised of Malachi 3:8-10 that you were told the windows of heaven will be opened to you and blessings will be poured out on you that there will be no more room (space) to occupy those blessing? Is God then a liar? Malachi 3 is not addressing Christians but the priests that were stealing from God then; hence the statement, will a man rob God?

Grace based giving is the instruction of the New Testament Christians. Many Christians tithe and yet, many especially in Nigeria, still have lots of Christian people living below $2 per day. God is not a liar! Set yourself free from legalistic tithing according to the law of carnal commandments and start Grace based giving and see the wonders of God in your life. I'm a living witness to Grace based giving.

^ I'm the one that sent you an email yesterday. Lemme see if I can still find your contact or if you still got mine, just email me again. Some good news to share with you.

New International Version (©2011)
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse! Galatians 1:8


Spiritual pointer:

Did the Apostles preached tithe or tithing to the church\Christians?.....other than the gospel we have preached!

Did Christ preached tithe or tithing to the Apostles or woe to the scribes & pharisees?.....other than the gospel we have preached!

Show us where the New Testament Christians were taught to or instructed to tithe?.....other than the gospel we have preached!

Pattern yourselves after me [follow my example], as I imitate and follow Christ (the Messiah).
1 Corinthians 11:1; Amplified Bible (AMP)

@ MostHigh,

Where in scriptures does the bible called or says some laws of Moses are classified or categorized into moral, some ceremonial etc? Do you mind showing us what chapter and verses please.