₦airaland Forum

@ DrummaBoy,

God bless you so greatly. Lemme me encourage your heart, as to what you have written. Things are changing. The knowledge of the word of God is increasing. We cannot continue to WRONGLY divide the word of truth, it must be RIGHTLY divided - They say we're not under the law (Mosaic) and yet, they try to keep some and discard some. They remix with Grace gospel. They repackage it. They modified it.

Christ taught the New Testament that was revealed to and through Paul the Apostle in coded words and\or parables. That's why you always read our Lord says, "The kingdom of God is likened to ...". Christ said, "you cannot put a new wine (Grace) into the old wineskin (mosaic law), Mark 2:22. Those who mix Grace with the mosaic law are those who burst or ruin the gospel Christ told us to go preach.

We who have accepted Grace and the finished works of Christ alone as being sufficient for us are done away with the mosaic law. These simple truth rule our Christian walk with the Lord and we accept it. We obey the simple gospel of Grace and following the New Testament teachings. We pray our other brethren who uphold the mosaic law or who believe mosaic law was written to Christians will come to the knowledge of the truth some day. God bless you and other brethren on your time spent teaching the grace gospel.

^ I will try listen. A glance seems to be a good stuff. Bookmarked.

@ Debosky,

Job well done. That statement I made is a military terms meaning what it says. Handle them severely is the meaning. You do well.

christemmbassey: u should know that was a typo. @demi, i mean, look at bro Paul's life and ours, i mean the avg naija christian, our attitude of turning christianity to ladipo market, we sell prayers, prophecies, deliverances, tapes/cds, books most of which are 'other gospels', we even sell husbands/wives, children, healings, peace, employment, charms for business and exams successes etc. I think this is dif from Paul's gospel and christianity.

Man of God, you too funny o! But no be laughing matter at all o. You're inspired, I know it and I confirm it!

shdemidemi: ^^^

Personally, I believe false prophets are God's judgement on our lust.
[size=3pt]But, we have a job to do cos Christ said 'the son of man has nowhere to rest His head', we need to spread the gospel of Christ to form a unified mystical body.[/size]

You are inspired and we know it. Keep the good work bro. I might change my signature to the above.

Registering myself for this course.

I don't understand why nobody is dealing squarely with Image123 on his mission to basterdize scriptures of Hebrews 7:8 and 13 just because he wants to justify tithe? Is there no differences between he, 'who is said\witnessed to be living because he had no beginning of days (birth record) or end of life (death record)' AND he, 'who is living by the POWER OF AN ENDLESS LIFE' Is there no differences?

OLAADEGBU: "Give God what's right . . . not what's left."

. . .as a man purpose in his heart, so let him give....not according to a fixed legalistic percentage.

OLAADEGBU: And what do you suppose the law of the land (the constitution) was based on? is it not the law of Moses? and why didn't you disregard the law of the land that bind you from having a green card? The gift that enabled you obey that law will also empower you to keep the law as a law abiding citizen.

Nothing I no go hear for NL! U.S Constitution based on the law of Moses? Na eim Naija keepers of the law of Moses never advance like U.S. Abi no be same law of Moses them dey apply and\or keep for Naija? Them go soon start dey stone people to death for naija too o - ministry of death indeed!

@ DrummaBoy & Boomark,

I'm Goshen360 and I APPROVE your messages! Keep it up.

@ plaetton,

What exactly is your point? So because of love and tolerance we should support the act of homo or what? We don't have those who practice such as human beings but don't support their act, it's against our faith and God word. He that created them from the beginning created them male and female for a purpose.

maximunimpact: There is somtin confusing here from what pro-law keepers are saying. Is it not a clear bible teaching dat we are not under d law? Even as ignorant I am as a xtian, I knw dat d law was fulfilled by Christ, and therefore nolonger binding on us. Pls those of u claiming d law still binds xtians, can u clearly convince me y I shud remain under law and not under grace 4 wch Christ died 4? Pls be honest fellow xtians..........are we still under the law?

Romans 3:19. WHATSOEVER the law says, it says to THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW, that is the Jews. Romans 6:14, you are not under the law BUT UNDER GRACE.

Efen if them no write bible sef and I come this world come see male and female, I would still have asked questions why some people will still be doing the same se.x thing while there exist two se.x of every kinds.

I can see okeyxyz already firing the word, preach it bro.

Image123: one step at a time, no rush Gosh. Did verse 13 say that the passage is talking about Jesus? Two, did you eventually check the original to confirm that there is no name in verse 8?

Because you don't understand verse 13, that's why you're also confused on verse 8 or deliberately basterdizing the context. Answer my question, and we take it one by one. Who received tithe from Abraham? Christ or Melchizedek. When you answer that, then I will explain what verse 13 is saying.

@ Alwaystrue,

What does Paul, the Apostle meant in Galatians 2:18 and what was it that was tore down? Two in one question.

Ihedinobi: When you see a neighbor's wife and she appeals to you but you do not go to bed with her, are you refusing to commit adultery because the Law says that you should not, that is, out of obligation, or because there is that within you that does not agreee with such a thing, that is, your nature as a Christian does not allow it?

Ihedinobi, you're doing something here and I'm sorry to say, I don't like such kind of TRICKY discussion. When you used the statement "appealing" in which I responded to, it was within the context of tithe. That is, appealing to the givers to bring tithe BUT now, you changed that context to a neighbours's wife appealing to me to sleep with her. I don't like such discussion please. That's that, I will respond to this on the same where you talked about same content in one of your response.

Ihedinobi: 1. Goshen, was that text directed? Was it not about a specific need that they collected money for? It was just an instance of the practice of the Church to collect money. It proves that the Church practiced collecting money for need. It does not provethat she never collects tithes.

2. Tithes are by nature collected together. Whether or not in your opinion tithes are collected in the Church does not change the fact that tithes are collected together. Therefore, until you can show that tithes contradict the New Covenant, the descriptions, "collections" and "material blessings" cover tithes as well.

1. Oh yes, it was an "instance" right? And such instance becomes an example to Christians. Was it also an "instance" to the Galatians Church?

New Living Translation (©2007)
Now regarding your question about the money being collected for God's people in Jerusalem. You should follow the same procedure I gave to the churches in Galatia. 1 Corinthians 16:1

2. Tithes are by nature collected together...I don't understand the context of this your statement and since you're becoming too tricky to deal with, then I demand you explain what you mean by tithe being a collection BY NATURE. Then I will respond properly.

Whether or not in your opinion tithes are collected in the Church does not change the fact that tithes are collected together. Therefore, until you can show that tithes contradict the New Covenant, the descriptions, "collections" and "material blessings" cover tithes as well.

This is exactly where you and your tithe teachers or lemme say you in particular are REMIXING what was explicitly stated out. You are saying because there are collections in the NT, then it must include tithe BUT everywhere tithe was commanded or not in the OT & NT, the word 'tithe' is explicitly mentioned. This is not my opinion and can never be but the word of God. I have shown you where Christ's commandment for those who preach the gospel should be taken care of by free-will giving of those who are being taught. That's very clear from scriptures and NO WHERE DOES IT MENTION TITHE.....which in this context a fixed 10% from income of people who are taught the word.

Until I show that tithe contradict the NT description of collections? Really? Haven't I showed you in all this argument? Okay, for clarity purpose, lemme me show you again and let's see how you trick or twist this?

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7

The NT says, the giving that we do should be what we have purposed in our heart to give NOT grudgingly or of NECESSITY. That word necessity is the answer that contradict the OT testament way of tithing because tithe or tithing is by LAW...a COMMANDMENT. Now, watch this,

The word necessity is the Greek word, anagkē and from here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G318&t=KJV, it means 1) necessity, imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument. 2) calamity, distress, straits.

From the above we understand it refers to the first usage and when taken back into the context of II Corinthians 9:7, it reads thus, that is, replace the word 'necessity' with the meaning,

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument.: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

When you people keep MIXING the Mosaic law with Christianity, that what you come up with. Tithing in scriptures is BY LAW COMMANDED and the the law that instituted the Levitical priesthood, the same law uphold them to get a tithe. Christian giving says or NEGATES, as you requested, the Mosaic tithing system - As we purpose in our heart, so we give not as imposed by the law either to the duty of Levitical priesthood or even by custom, either Jewish custom or whatever custom is may be. This is very simple.

Ihedinobi: Under the New Covenant, there is no obligation, Goshen my brother, therefore, tithes are free will giving.

When I give my tithes in church, it is out of love for the Lord, for His commandment, for those who serve in His work, for His work itself and for the poor.

A free will is born out of the heart of the giver, that is what the giver purposed in his heart, not what is compulsory or commanded as a FIXED rate or PERCENTAGE. Tithe is a fixed 10%, can't you get a simple definition? A free will can be today or this week 1% or 2 or 3 etc or even in some days\week be 11% or 12, 13 etc. The confusion is mixing what is said under the OT and the NT together.

Okay, if you're gonna give your tithe out of love, for his COMMANDMENT? You see how I say you are too tricky? Then, where in the New Testament does Christ or the Apostles COMMANDED tithe to Christians? And please remember to show it to us because the word 'tithe' must surface in such COMMANDMENT.

Ihedinobi: When something is a principle, then it is unchanging foundation that justifies some activities and condemns others. Tithing is actually a statement. You know, I believe it's a statement you know quite well, Goshen, because you were once making an issue of the Gospel in the Old Covenant. If you looked carefully at the old pattern, you'd see that tithing is a statement of acknowledgment of the beneficence of some person or power to whom one feels indebted for their good fortune.

The tenth is a portion given as gratitude to the one who has sustained one in his ways and endeavors. We give the tenth, my friend, not to pastors or the poor or the Levites or the High Priest, but to the Lord God. And it is He Who decides what He wants done with it. It is His Will that those whom He has taken exclusively into His service who devote every instant of their lives to ministering to Him and working to serve His house and the poor who cannot care for themselves be maintained by this portion that He receives as a beneficent King.

If you read, my brother, and think about what I have just said, you will understand because I just covered Genesis to, at least, Timothy in what I said up there.

This is one thing with tithe people. God says it's a commandment, you people say it's a principle. Ihedinobi, go and check dictionary of any kind, principles is NOT THE SAME AS commandments. I don't have too much to say to you on this. And what is it if you cover Genesis to Revelation? What has that got to do with this? Does everything in Genesis APPLY to Christians? Why don't you start creating the world again then? Or why don't you continue to kill animals for sins? Why would you say Christ had done that for you and leave the rest. Why don't you continue to stone people to death because it's written in the Mosaic law? because you covered genesis to revelation.

Ihedinobi: What have I changed, Goshen? Under the law, we're not to commit adultery. Now that we're no longer under the law, is adultery no more sin? Obviously, if we do not commit adultery, it is not only because the law commands that we do not but because it has become our intrinsic nature to eschew adultery, do you not agree?

Now, here is where I said I was gonna reply you on the first I replied above. The law had first said thou shall not commit adultery, covet etc. This is where you confuse what is is put in us internally with the holy Spirit. You keep saying the law is no longer written on stones but put within us. That's the confusion. The law had taught me that adultery is not good and when my neigbour's wife as you said appealed to me, it is no longer the law that tells me adultery is not good, IT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT. I just did this same explanation here: https://www.nairaland.com/1278024/antagonists-gospel-infinite-grace-answer/12#15668651 Please go through that explanation because it's related to the comments here. I cannot quote every here again.

Ihedinobi: What are you rebuking me for here, Goshen? An expression of my desire to keep us focused on the issue?

I'm not rebuking you for anything other than to stop being tricky and stop applying what was said to those who preach the gospel as commanded by the Lord to what was said to those who minister at the altar and those who minister at the temple. You are applying what was said and directed at one group to another and mixing the whole thing up. When Jesus said to those he sent to preach, did the Lord commanded that they should receive WHATEVER THEY ARE GIVEN by using the word TITHE? This is the question you keep dodging. That's why I said in that context, you are going beyond what was said to one group or the other and you are going beyond what is written.

I will respond to your other post latter in the day or week if I'm chanced. And taken you to where you said I should show you from Hebrews 7 how or where tithe is abolished. We will get there later. I'm going for my daily bread for now.

deSika: oboye see twisting. you will soon twist urself out o.

i tot u said
stone : word
bread : wealth

now u r saying
bread: word

hehehe so can we now say that the devil was asking Jesus to convert word (stone) to another word (bread)

Lolz @ Pastor Kun's

james1: Where the real pastors at?
Let's look up to Jesus,first born of creation....the bible reports;Jesus WENT ABOUT DOING GOOD!
SHOULD ANY PASTOR FALL SHORT OF THE LIFE STYLE,TEACHING AND COMPORTMENT OF JESUS THEN AM AFRAID THEY REPRESENT THEMSELVES!

aba2aba: These days real men of God are not necessarily the most popular

The blessings of the Lord is on both of you & your family.

@ Debosky,

We have argued this verse in the past with Image123. Image123 seems to be on the mission to bastardize the word of God and apply gross MIS-interpretation. Lemme put it very clear here, the publishers of KJV are the same publishers of New Living Translation and my new favourite one, The Expanded Bible. These other two and many more translations says "Melchizedek" explicitly and other translations maintained the regular or usual rendering in the KJV manner without mentioning who the 'he' was in that context.

When people like Image123 goes as far as importing 'Christ' into that verse. He is therefore guilty of adding to God's word and deliberately forcing his false interpretation into the text simply because he want to argue tithe belongs to Christ. Let's wait for him to bring up any external source and as a matter of fact, the only external source is either he provide us with the original manuscript from which he derived his interpretation or use Greek Concordance to prove the text.

What Image123 is simply doing is going beyond what is written and we're warned against such. 1 Corinthians 4:6

@ DrummaBoy,

Your above comment is exactly what the judaizers in Paul's days did, they use some part of the Torah and make GAINS out of it. There's a scripture that says that but I might bring it up later.

Ishilove: Hokay darleen, no vex ehn... Olowo ori mi, my e-warrior, machoman, the Word warrior, my e-knight, atheists see your username and tremble with fear, my one and only US citizen, any other Citizen Goshen is a counterfeit...ehn,oya smile for me...

So you sabi how to make my head swell up like this? You see why I say I don baptized for you. Your new competitor no efen sabi how to swell my head like this...in fact, you too much. .

ayoku777: alwaystrue, you're being diplomatic with revelation. So if i'm dont commit adultery now, it has to be bcoz im obeying the law? So the holy spirit in me can't make me do so without the law? Gal 5v16 ...walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. I don't need a law to help me not murder anymore when i now have the Spirit to lead. And the veil that was removed is the veil of reading the law as a rule book to be observed and obeyed instead of a prophecy book that is fulfilled in Christ. If the law is still relevant, how is Christ ...the end of the law?

You see my brother, not because this is your thread. These our other Mosaic law upholders are very far from the truth. I was gonna respond to Alwaystrue by saying before I saw your response that IT IS ONLY THOSE OR SOMEONE THAT UNDERSTANDS THE MOSAIC LAW VERY WELL THAT CAN TEAR DOWN THE MOSAIC LAW,....and such was Paul the Apostle, Galatians 2:18. These our brothers and sisters don't understand the Mosaic Law at all and it is very clear from many discussions\threads.

Alwaystrue: The law is good and Holy and Spiritual but the curse of the law is the repercussion for not continuing in the law primarily due to lack of faith.

Do Christians come to Christ by faith so they can "continue" in the Mosaic Law? When you mention law, you need to specify which law you're referring to please. For clarity purpose.

Alwaystrue: The law was not nailed to the cross. The law in spirit is the newness of life and not just the oldness of the letter.

If the Mosaic law was not nailed to the Cross, do you still stone people to death? Do you still stone rebellious kids to death? What do you mean by the law in the spirit? Does the Mosaic law give or help to serve in the newness of life?

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Ephesians 2:15

How do you explain this text if the law was not nailed to the cross?

Alwaystrue: The veil of the law is removed in Christ and only in Christ.

As long as the veil remains, no one can fulfil the law in the spirit and righteousness of it.

The above statement reads contradictory to themselves. The veil of the Mosaic law is REMOVED in Christ, then do we still need this Mosaic law after being in Christ? Being in Christ takes away the veil, then what we see from Mosaic Law is Christ, not the Mosaic Law itself anymore.

Alwaystrue: See how truth came through Christ. It did not say the law was removed or abolished, but the veil (the eyes of the flesh which hinders the spirit/unbelief/unfaithlessness/fear/blocker of God's glory).

This veil that was removed is the mindset of the law which I'm very sorry many of you who uphold the Mosaic law are still carrying or carried into Christianity. When you stop interpreting the Mosaic law with the mindset of the law but with the Mindset of Christ, seeing Christ in the Law, then the veil it truly taken away.

The fact that you keep saying the law Mosaic law was not removed or abolished. I have shown you one scriptures that says what is abolished is the law...Mosaic law. Here is another one,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans 10:4

What does this scriptures mean? Christ EXTENDED the Mosaic Law?

Alwaystrue: Christ gave us the truth of the law explaining adultery, explaining hatred for our brother which is like murder, explaining the sabbath etc.

What is the truth of the law when the law says stone adulterers to death? What is the truth of the law when it says don't wear mix clothing materials? What is the truth of the law when it says a woman is unclean at mensuration? What is the truth of the law when it says man should not shave his beards etc. These are laws also, don't just pick sabbath, adultery etc to tell us Jesus gave us the truth of those ones leaving the rest laws.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down. Galatians 2:18

Image123: If the whole passage is talking about Jesus, then why say that Jesus is not introduced until verse 12? The writer clearly states that
Hebrews 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Isn't this context and straight enough? How is Melchi receiving tithes in the present continuous as verse 8 states? Who is witness that Melchi liveth?

External source I'll give is any center reference bible. The center reference will give you the clue to who is witnessed to be alive, the Spirit should also. if you ask.

Okay, let's put it this way, if it was Jesus that the whole passage is talking about according to verse 13, then the question is, was it Jesus that received tithe from Abraham? You can even put it (receiveth) in your present continuous if you want to answer the question.

Bidam: Deuteronomy 4:39-40 - Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

The above verse mirrors the "10 Commandments," the first of which is to have faith in God.

Bidam, I think we need to talk in private. See, I'm not trying to claim too know but it seems to me that you people are not grasping the revelation of the New Testament and it hurts my heart every time we talk on this and you guys are not grasping these scriptures. If the above scriptures you quoted mirrors the 10 commandments, what does that imply in the New Testament, The Epistles? Isn't that the ministry of DEATH?

Bidam: Paul, in his letter to the Galatians, writes about the purpose of the Torah. He compares it to a tutor to us before faith Yet, he also talks about "the curse" of the Law. One seems "good" and the other "bad." How can this be?

Does this suggests to me that you don't understand Paul? Or you're just asking questions? Because, anyone that doesn't understand Paul's writing is scripturally confused because somethings are hard to understand which he wrote about. There's nothing bad about the Mosaic law, it was holy, good and useful.....only to those it was given to. It was given so they can see the need for a Saviour. It served its purpose to lead people to Christ and after then, the Holy Spirit takes over, not longer need the law to tell you what is right or wrong. The people the law was given to cannot keep it, God finding fault with them (the people) then ended covenant and the law also ended with the first covenant so the new covenant came in. I don't have much time for scripture quoting now, I would have punctuated with scriptures but I will do if need be.

Alwaystrue: @Bidam, you come across like Paul's epistles contradict the law of God. I don't see that at all. He upholds the law. It is just the way people see and interprete it.
Unfortunately, when the bible says the law came through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus, many do not really understand what the grace and truth means.
The Christian life is more about the inward which transcends to the outward....it is less of rituals and more of the real intent purpose and heart after God.
In Jesus, we are called to a much greater service than those in the OT because of Grace and the truth that sets free. In Jesus, working in the Spirit, we fulfil the law as the fruit of the spirit is seen and everyone who exhibits this fruit fulfils the law. Anyone who works in the flesh is under the law.
It seems people believe Jesus death and ressurection period ended the law....it never did. He did not abolish the law, He came to fulfil it indeed by giving the truth of it and the righteousness thereof.
When people shout grace without the law I see it as ignorance because what do we have grace for?

Hebrews 4:16
So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most.


That is why Paul said, should sin abound because of Grace? Because it is no more sin and death should we sin or become lawless? Should we take the grace for granted? Never.
It is not to fulfil the lust of the flesh which puts us under the law but thanks to Jesus who is our advocate because of His blood, the Holy Spirit to continually convict us and guide us teaching us in all truth and God for His mercy on us because of all this.
When people realise this, they will truly understand that:

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

many do not really understand what the grace and truth means.

What does Grace and Truth mean? Do you mind teaching on it? You cannot just claim people do not understand and keep quiet not telling the people you claim don't understand Grace & Truth what it means. Please, tell us what Grace & truth means so we can understand.


When people shout grace without the law I see it as ignorance because what do we have grace for?

Who are the people that had shouted Grace without law? And what law are you talking about? Mosaic Law or Messianic Law? You tell us what we need Grace for? To keep Mosaic Law or to keep Messianic Law?

It seems people believe Jesus death and resurrection period ended the law....it never did. He did not abolish the law, He came to fulfill it indeed by giving the truth of it and the righteousness thereof.

So Christ death EXTENDED the Mosaic Law or what exactly are you saying? What does it mean to abolish and\or fulfill? What truth and Righteousness is thereof of the Mosaic Law? Please point them out to us.

^ YES! He is back from a brief break.

[quote author=i.chuka]Congrat!Bro!![/quote]Thanks bro. Where you go enter all these days. I don miss you small o. Sure all is well sha. You're blessed bro.

Ishilove: No even try am

Which kind face you dey make so? You think say that one dey do me anything? I tell you wetin you do wrong and you still dey come threaten me make I no efen try am....if I try am nko?

JeSoul: ...meanwhile Congratulations to sir Goshen. Bloomberg has finally hooked you up . A green card opens up all kinds of opportunities so I'm truly happy for you. What part of NY are you at? I am expecting an invitayshun to the parry, I'm only 3 hrs away. I prefer jollof & grilled (not fried) chicken. And please tell your wifey to add as much pepper to the stew as she likes, a lil' extra ata rodo never hurt nobody . And I also prefer Izze brand drinks, no coke or sprite please. And please oh very imporrant, hire some valet parking attendants...we don't want to spend 1hr+ driving around manhattan trying to find a parking spot or spend $50 to park for 1hr. Tank you sir, we appreciate. See you soon .

I don tell you say na comedian you suppose register for. And if you no register for comedy class, I will register you by force by fire. As per the party, na Naija e go happen o so that our other brethren at home can fully participate and we all use that opportunity to meet and rejoice. Will send you invitayshun then, hopefully by this December or before mid next year. Na BBQ go better pass o; you know say our brothers and sisters like BBQ, fish & Meat and celebrate.