₦airaland Forum

Ihedinobi: I know what types and anti-types are, Goshen. I know what God does with them. I'm askinf how they relate to each other. I'm asking you to deacribe the type in terms of the antitype and vice versa.

Types and substance are two different things. Both are not the same bro. Melchizedek was a type of Christ. Is he then = to Christ himself?

The relationship again is further taken as the anti-type fulfills ONLY WHERE GOD USES THE TYPES TO TEACH HIS REDEMPTIVE PLANS.

Ihedinobi: How many Laws are there? What are they?

There are two laws...of Moses and of Christ. Both are also used by another names interchangeably.

Ihedinobi: My brother, please pay a little more attention. I implied that I had already answered the question and had nothing to add to my previous answers

Okay, lemme give you that, free of charge. I might come back to it though.

Ihedinobi: What is the relationship between a type and its anti-type?

The relationship is, God uses the types/shadow to talk into the future, the substance. And according to scriptures, when the substance is fulfilled, the shadows are done away with. The shadows remain ONLY UNTIL the substance come, not to be taken as or confused with the substance.

Ihedinobi: With regard to Grace, I will say to you what I said to Goshen on another thread as a summary. Grace means nothing without the Law.

On the above, in red; I completely AGREE & STAND BY THE TRUTH OF YOUR STATEMENT 100% BUT what law? Mosaic or messianic law? I do not teach that grace means lawlessness but what law are Christians under? Of mosaic or messianic?

Please answer to this so I clearly know your stand?

Ihedinobi: What new thing can I say in answer to this?

You didn't answer the question. On what scriptural ground do you or does these mosaic laws then applies to the substance (the church) if it wasn't written to or given to them in the first place? Knowing that the types and the non types (gentiles) are now one new man, called the church.

Ihedinobi: So if the old Israel corresponds to the Church, what corresponds to the Mosaic Law?

That's the law of the Spirit, the law of Christ, love. That mosaic and\or Sinai was fulfilled and thereby null\void. Not that the mosaic still tallies or carried over into the new covenant for the church, no!

Ihedinobi: @Goshen

To the Nation of Israel.

Then, on what scriptures do you or does it apply to the church?

Ihedinobi: @Goshen

Now I ask you, does the Bible hold the nation of Israel to be a type of the Church?

Yes, the national Israel is a type and shadow of the church. Now that the substance or the types\shadows are ALREADY FULFILLED in Christ and the church, why do we still hold to the types and shadows or confuse the shadows with the substance?

Also, this type and shadow, national Israel is now part of the ONE NEW MAN, THE CHURCH. So, in Christ, no more Jews or Gentiles. Does the types and shadows still exist in Christ?

@ Ihedinobi,

Who was the mosaic law given or written to? National Israel or the church?

@ OP,

You/we cannot sit on one scripture and make a doctrine out of it. Just because we tear down the mosaic law doesn't equate it to the Lord not being good. How about,

"I am the GOOD Shepherd..." - John 10:11

Ihedinobi: @Goshen, emailed you.

Yes, got it.

Galatians 2:18, somebody please help me quote from all the translations here: bible.cc/galatians/2-18.htm

obadiah777: I BE HERE SIR. I TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM GRACE ARGUMENTS. THOSE WITH THE GRACE DOCTRINE ARE ATTACHED TO IT LIKE A BABY IS ATTACHED TO DIAPERS. YOU CAN NEVER SEPARATE THEM FROM THEIR GRACE. SUP GOSHEN

Sup bro....it is the GIFT OF GOD!

That's the word right there! A blessing and bookmarked. Our generation of Christians are not cursed but blessed with great insights of unveiling the treasures of God's word. Thanks for sharing bro, God bless you!

Bidam: Yeah i was in a hurry to reply sorry.

Next time, try to dey cool down. You too dey rush and jump pass.... . One of the characteristics of a good debate is to CLEARLY UNDERSTAND your opponent, then you can counter on the weak side. If I catch you jumping or rushing next time, na flogging you go receive...

Ihedinobi: It is.

Okay, we shall discuss that some other time. Send me an email with your mobile phone number please.

Ihedinobi: I don't think I suggested that we won't sin tomorrow. I only asked what the obtaining conditions are for a Christian in sin and unrighteousness.

I'm responding from phone but I think I go with debosky's answers but yet, if you know you will still sin yet tomorrow, then I don't think that your question should surface at all.

I think you need send me your mobile contact again, there're things I cannot say or teach on a public forum like this anymore except people study it by themselves but if you send me your contact again, I will tell you from scriptures the exact answers to your question.

Everyone needs vacation from time to time...and everyone gets vacation from time to time.

Ihedinobi: Surr he does...eventually. But while he remains in sin...?

Lemme get you clear bro, I thought I once read you teach or believe ETERNAL SALVATION OR ONCE SAVED, FOREVER SAVED. Is that true of you?

Ihedinobi: This is true, but under this new covenant, wwhat happens to the sinning Christian?

"Continue to sin or sinning Christian" doesn't mean one will not sin tomorrow but it means, one don't keep doing or committing SAME SIN EVERYDAY that the Grace may keep abounding. To me and from scriptures, that's abuse of Grace of God under the new covenant.

Bidam: actually the curses will be available if you fall away by sinning.see

You're simply insulting the finished works of the cross bro. A Christian is not cursed anymore because he/she falls into sin under the new covenant, he/she don't just continue to make a practice of sin, it does not say anywhere in the new covenant that curse return on such person.

Under Deuteronomy 28, you have to keep the whole commandments to blessings to effect on those under the law and same for curses. That is, there are blessings and curse but subject to keeping ALL commandments laid down.

Under the better covenant, blessings are not subject to keeping ALL commandments of the mosaic law because Christ paid it all, took away the curses of the law and became a curse under the new covenant that the blessings might come upon us.

We live under a better covenant with better promises and under these new/better covenant, there's no curses but blessings because Christ already redeemed us from the curses of the law, leaving us with only blessings.

Ayomivic: Everybody in the word knows that abstinence from food is fasting.

Fasting does not ALL equals to abstaining ONLY from food. That's not true; fasting could be abstaining from se.x, or anything.

@ Enigma,

I'm very sorry if I sound rude or playful some time or even proud by choice of words but that's the way I view those who uphold the law (of Moses) or mix with Grace...my view about them might be wrong though. That one, I'm sorry and apologize.

2. On the issue of debate and demanding balance, there's nothing like balancing Grace with the law of Moses, absolutely nothing of such for Christians. That's the whole purpose of letter to the Galatians, they, having started in the Spirit (saved by Grace), they trying to return to the flesh or trying to balance with the law of Moses. Should you say Grace + law of Christ, then YES!

Cashio: ......but no one asked u all these!

Don't he, the OP also have a right to opening a thread?

Thosee who mix or try to balance Grace with some aspects of the law of Moses will soon come and tell you it was because Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath...

@ Reyginus & ATMC,

I have seen your invitation to: https://www.nairaland.com/1276139/christians-chatbox-game-party-night and will be honouring it. God bless y'all. Y'all keep doing the good works. This one na Online version of the Tea Party Night, when I return home from abroad, there shall be another gathering\party to welcome Goshen...all shall be invited and with enough chop-chop, I love my BBQ (meat & fish)!....God willing.

My brother Frosbel is well and fine. He needs more attention for his families also and there's time for everything. He's only on a break for a while; he is studying more and will be back RELOADED!

@ Obadiah777,

Mintayo is right in that, if we don't accept the LITERAL meaning of scriptures, then anybody can make meanings to scriptures. Everyone understand your rhema interpretation(bringing out spiritual or present day application) out of the LITERAL, that going deeper beyond on literal but saying Christ didn't go without literal food is error.

Hmmmm, I think I understand what you saying. You bringing out the spiritual out of the literal. I got the same revelation years back when I studied on Christ's temptation especially what you said about turning stone to bread so he can eat @ Obadiah777,

So, by revelation, when does temptation comes to a man? Only when in need or lack. In this case, hungry. So many pastors because of hunger turn the word into merchandise because they're in need, that's turning stone to bread so they can eat.

The same goes for some ladies that goes after cougars because of need (hunger) by being tempted but many refuse to fall for that or such temptation. That's the revelation or rhema of the word of God right there.

^ Well, both fasting & hungry are literal & metaphoric. I think our brother Obadiah777 misplaced one for the other or took both as the same. It is the context that tells us what is meant as used.

MostHigh: so after your belif in the "old" what other action is there?

The law is not meant to be what it is to Israel to us but it was a shadow. You must bring out the substance out of the law. If one reads the law and can't see Christ in it, that's the problem. I believe the Old because I see Christ in it as "hidden" then the new, I see Christ as "revealed". That's quite simple!

@ Obadiah777,

Well, I think you confused both meanings (of fasting & hungry; literal and metaphoric), giving one meaning for the other. We can look at it together when you're ready. Before these religious people come and derail your thread. It is often their habits, if they want to discuss fornication, the threads are there, they can either resurrect it or start a new one.

^ That's what you religious people do - You take people's word out of context and apply it. When you quoted my first words or statement, why didn't you quote the following or explanatory notes\comments. I don't care about what you say, it is not you that defines meanings to words and unless you proof otherwise; you're a hater of the brethren. Thank God you recommended those thread to the person you spoke to.