₦airaland Forum

Yes he is your creator.. now disprove his existence

Alfamann: Ah! Another new god. A new duality YHWH/greatgenuis. Are you his begotten father, brother or son?

Please can people stop inveting gods for me to disprove. Just chose one of the "pre-existing" ones please.

ok ignorant I don't have time for the back and forth.. my relationship with him should not stop you from trying to disprove his existence..

And where did your ignorant behind get the idea that YHWH( Yod, he, wav, he.....Yahweh for short ) is a new invention I just made up? ..

If your next reply is not up to par I will leave you alone...

He is a macrocosm of me..I and the father are one.. now I am waiting for your dribbles to disprove this God..

Alfamann: Is YHWH your god?

not only is he my god..I am YHWH(Yahweh ).. we are one and the same.

@ Op I haven't really read the thread because of the nonsense blabers that some of you are spewing... Let's see how much you can walk the talk ..

let's start with YHWH.. YHWH is the creator of humans, the creator of this world.. can you really disprove his existence? I know you can't but I want to see you try..

^^^ Lol are you going to say what your problem is son? Can't decipher what you wrote

wiegraf: Gaddamit .. Gadfu****gDAmmit...

lol anything the problem god brother..what is your beef now

Billyonaire: This happens to be the beginning of the Bible, and the most important paragraph in the Bible, it seems to explain the evolution of existence, so brilliantly but I think most certainly we have lost the definition of the word. What is this word ? "In the being was the word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. So was it in the beginning with God, all things were made by him (it), and without him (it) was nothing made, that was made.

Simple Analogy: Word was with God, Word is God, Everything is made from Word, Nothing exist that doesnt come from Word. Let's define energy, Energy can never be created, nor destroyed, can be converted from one form to another, Energy is all in existence and is embodiment of all that there is. If Word was God, it does mean Energy is .........all that there is. Then logical thinkers will say, energy isnt conscious, but living things are.....but I will say, find the missing link, the moment we discover that, we will create new planets. Let's I forget, a new planet was formed by dark energy last week. I also conducted an experiment in my bathroom 2 days ago that prove that what we call black holes are actually the precursor of the revolutionary force that revolves the planet aside the gravitational magnetism. The entire Galaxy is in a pipelike tunnel and what we call space isnt vacuum, space is particulate. The more I know, the more I discover how little we know as humans.

the verse basically says what it says. its just unfortunate that religionist have bastardized the meaning to refer to the word as only Jesus..

The verse is really talking about the process of creation..The universe is mental and everything that God the father created was done through the word or the son...nothing is/was ever created without the begotten son, the word..God the father is thought and God the son, the word.. They are both equal..everything that has ever been created first exists as a thought or an idea. then it is expressed. the word is thought expressed..the manifestation of the word is what you call action.. actions are words moving.. the father, the son and the holy spirit.. thought, word,action/manifestation. this is the holy trinity..

before you create anything it first originates as an idea/thought and then gets expressed...nothing just appears or comes into being without this creation process..thoughts/words are very creative.." as a man thinketh so it shall be"

In the beginning it is said that God spoke everything into existence.."let there be this, let there be that"..and it was so and manifested..nothing is ever created without thinking it or speaking it into existence.. everything is an expression of God.. we are all words or expressions of God..not just Jesus.. have i not said that ye are all gods..

As expressions of God anything that we have ever created follows this process of creation..your thoughts or God the father thinks it,the son is expressed and then manifested into existence as a creation.

Logicboy03: "outside/beyond time" is meaningless to human beings.


Can you even try to describe what it means to be "outside time"?

how do you want me to explain to you what it means to be "outside of time" when i am yet to ascertain if you truly understand what the concept of TIME is.. again what do you understand about the concept of time..

i will try not to use the term God here(it seems to confuse you)..does the universe has a beginning?

@logicboy i said what does time mean to you. what is the concept of time to you..and is it relative

save your breath he wouldn't get it..he only looks at things from one angle.. he admitted earlier that freewill is real.. if it feels real to you then why do you care if God is omniscient or not..if he is or not it shouldn't matter because you still have your freewill to do as you please.

saying i am not going to act or do anything because an omniscient GOD knows my every outcome and move has/will still not violated/violate your freewill. choosing to not act is still a choice regardless..an act done out of your free will regardles..

Ihedinobi: Ha! We're not contending over the meaning of omniscience, Lb2, we're contending over whether or not omniscience nullifies free will. You just said that the Bible says that it does and I answered that it didn't since it still confers a burden of choice on us.

Logicboy03:
I take it that you have a hard time with reality.



lol

lol ok lets try another angle since you seem to hate the word GOD.. lets talk science..replace the word God with ENERGY and go read my post again..

we should probably talk more about time as I also dont think/beleive you understand the concept of time. What does time mean to you..do you think time is relative or not?..

^^^ lol did you really understand what i wrote logicboy

Logicboy03:

lol......he clearly was wrong to call you a christian but it was understandable. A honest mistake is still a mistake.



As for debunked chrstian talking points, werent you talking about God being outside time and all that crap?

yes he is outside time but he is also within time and bound by it..why because he is all things..he is both the CREATOR and the CREATED..now if you see yourself as seperate from God then my statement will confuse you.. What most people have chosen to call God is their higher self or their Macrocosm. is like the cells or parts in your body calling your entity or whole being God..but the truth is without the cells there is no being or entity and likewise without the being there is no cells or parts..

btw to understand this whole outside and within time concepts you have to fully understand the whole concept of time.. Time is really an illusion. it is a measurement through space. it doesnt really exist. we have made it all up.

when i say "God"/your higher self is outside of time i meant he is outside of time as you know it.. to your whole enity The only time that exists is NOW..the past, present, future exists as now. right here. but to the parts or cells within the entity/GOD, time is measured by their movement through space and is relative

Logicboy03: lol....even you?



Note that you trolls have acted like the encyclopedias of philosophy do not exist. Anything to avoid the philosophy. Keep insulting my intelligence

there you go again jumping to conclusions. my reply was really directed @oonan not you.. but you may lump yourself in it if it pleases you. after all you are just a little bit better at thinking deep on stuff than OONAN..

Logicboy03: Yes, use Ooman to lump all of us atheists together.


Btw, Greatgenius is using the debunked christian talking points- it is a honest mistake to take him as a christian.

@bolded really? and what are those and who debunked them you?

btw do you see how hypocritical and flawed your reasoning is. in one sentence you are rebuking him for lumping all atheist together but when an obviously ignorant atheist does it then it becomes an honest mistake? lol

Ihedinobi: Ah, that's normal. If atheists can help it, they try not to read what their opponents post. It affords them a great deal of room to misconstrue and misrepresent what they say and make all kinds of false assumptions that they think help whatever helpless case they're arguing. It also helps them dismiss and avoid perfectly good arguments made by the opposition.

That's why even though I've quoted a post of yours to tell him so before, ooman still feels a pressing need to lump you together with us.

lol i really dont think he reads to understand a statement before he replies.. he lacks understanding of most things and then jumps around and call himself an atheist. most of their argument against their disbelief in God are based on the bible like the bible is the only authority on matters concerning God..

ooman: Gush, you lack of intelligence is not disappointing. Its typical of xtians

address the points and stop dancing around. you disappointment of an atheist. where does the darkness disappear to?.

if all there ever was/is, was darkness and light and nothing else, where else will darkness "disappear" to if the light was to illuminate completely to cover the entire place? if there was nothing/nowhere else apart from the only place/space where both lihgt/darknes reside ..where will or does the darkness disappear to. again your village?

you have obviously stopped thinking so i am going to force you to think here..

btw what ever gave you the impression that i am a christian

i feel like i am wasting my time but i will try one more time with you..

ooman: white and black can never co-exists. their mixture, effusion and diffusion always produces gray. What nonsense are you saying? and no one has stop this madness? Atheists what is going on with you guys?

its safe to say you are the most densed atheist here on this forum in my opinion.. a color is white or black depending on the angle of perception on it. they are one and the same thing. different degrees of expression of the same thing..a black color inverted will turn white and vice versa.. dont take my word for it go and try it at home. again seemingly "opposites" stuff are actually the same thing just different degrees of expression.

actually, freewill is not part of those things i would term as illusion. Its my choice and its real. If i decide to go on hunger strike, i would feel hunger, freewill is real just like we are.

if you dont think freewill is an illusion then you shouldnt even be discussing this topic because obviously you have no idea of what an illusion is.. is matter an illusion. yes. but does it seem real yes..understand that something being or seeming real doesnt mean it cant be or not an illusion..

lets take a solid table/matter for example. it seems real solid when you sit on it..but oberving it under a microscope you will realize that the atoms are amazingly moving around so fast. from your limited perception you observe it as solid. but is it really solid?.. now if you were also to break it down all the way to its core you will observe nothing.. so the question is, is the table that you observe as something actually a nothing.. is it an illusion. of course it is..but does it seem real of course it does..it is a real illusion

physicality is an illusion. it is a beautifully scripted game that we are all playing..it is all a dream. it is all an act. like the movies no one really gets hurt or dies.. because you cannot.. but does it seem real Yes..because when you are acting it is best to get into character or the movie flops..

is freewill real yes.. it is an illusion yes.

glad you know that

well good

pathetically erroneous.

didn't expect anything else from you at this point

ooman: LIGHT AND DARK CAN CO-EXIST HOW POSSIBLE IS THAT ITS A TOTAL IMPOSSIBILITY. DARKNESS DISAPPEARS IN THE PRESENCE OF LIGHT AND SO DOES FREEWILL IN THE PRESENCE OF OMNISCIENCE AND VICE VERSA

SMH

lol where does the darkness disappear to?.your village?.. the light has only "covered" the darkness. take away the light and the darkness will be right there where it was in the first place.the darkness went no where. it only "miraculously disappeared" ..think god brother think..

Logicboy03: lol....there is a contradiction and there isnt a contradiction!

Wow, you are confused- taking tqo opposite positions.


Anyways, you can try to indirectly say that Anony is smarter than me. All I can do is just laugh at your desperation

how was i in anyway saying Anony is smarter than you. i will make or made no such assertion god brother.. you did..my point was that i have made similar is/isnot statements about God being for instance both the light/darkness etc and some people failed to get it or grasp it. which of course is as a result of their limiting beliefs about God..i was in no way saying he was smarter than you.. but even if he was "smarter" that is in no way an insult. which you obviously think it is..someone being smarter does not mean they are better than you. unless of course you think otherwise..

is someone above and up in the air better than one on the ground? No but unless you think they are..

all4naija: please, clear your mind of your hallucination. It tells you are living in imaginary world you have be instilled into your mind. I would dare you face your African fairy tales of legendary than these foreign holy books meant to put you to the edge of emotions.

You are ignorant my friend!

I wish I am there with you, I would slap the nonsense out of your head. It is beclouding your reasoning, son!

Indeed, you comment like Davidylan in disguise.

the bolded actually had me laughing.. but trust me god brother i live in no imaginary world..i need no holy books or african tales..i am passed all these things..

btw i apologize for the name calling it just sometimes hard to come to grasp with the level of reasoning of some of you here sometimes..i have no idea how you deduced from my earlier statements about me being a religionist or needing a holy book..anyway i apologize for the name calling god brother

Logicboy03: You backtracked and then went on to repeat your old claims again.

You accepted my point and then went back to your opposing point.


Which one is it? There is a contradiction or not?

i haven't backtracked you just obviously does not not understand as usual..
let me put it this way..are those who claim God created or the universe came about through a series of process taking "billions of years" right? yes..what about those who claim he seems to have created the universe in an instant. well they are also right. God created the universe in an "instantbillions"..both sides are right.. but to you and a lot of other people being right means the other must be wrong.

now to your question. is there a contradiction or not? well answer this is there a contradiction between white and black or they are actually one and the same..

my answer to your question is there is/isnot a contradiction..( This is sort of in the same line as my statement in another thread that "God is everywhere and nowhere in particular" mantra that @Anomy failed to get. so i wont be surprise if you also fail to grasp this is/isnot concept)

all4naija: You said that for argument sake. Or you are just being ignorant about what have been said in your so called holy books. What nonsense are you trying to spew out here?
Please, you are not making any sense as the religionists always do with the fairytale talks.

you are at the height and epitome of ignorance brother man..my so called holy books? religionist?.. so in your delusion anyone who "supports" a religionist in their attemtp to put some sense into your warped mind must be a religionist themselves right?..if he is not for me then he is against me right?

Logicboy03: lol.....even I had to give up.


This thread has broken records and also the hearts of many christians.

What Ihedinobi, Davidylan and co dont realise is that I am not arguing with them for their own sake. I wanted to draw out their denial over simple contradiction in Omniscience and Freewill existing over 5 pages and it has reached 7 pages.


Any honest christian reading this thread would have lost faith in these guys. They are denying a standard problem in philosophy, this is not even something that should be denied but my christian friends are denying it. Shame on Ihedinobi, Dadvidylan, Greatgenius and co


ere are two encyclopedias of philosophy discussing the issue.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/free-will-foreknowledge/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/foreknow/



Some christians are just too foolish. The deny logic and claim victory in the arguments.


Case closed. Congrats to Oman and Wiegraff, you guys did well.

ok maybe i should make myself clear on this topic..i am not arguing against the contradiction. my stance was and is that omniscience and free will can and does co-exist. just like light and darkness co-exist..love/hate, good/bad, positive/negative, white/black etc..these are all "contradictions" but they co-exist..in the world of relationships/relavity they all seem like contradictions but in the realm of the sublime they are not..ultimately like white and black seemingly "contradictory" stuff are one and the same. different degrees of the same thing..

yes ultimately there is no such thing as freewill, becuase like darkness it is an illusion(but so is physicallity or more precisely relavity) and God is only playing a game with himself..so like matter, freewill is a real illusion.. the problem with this argument is if you see yourself as seperate from God then the more deeper you get into it the more confused you become which is evidenced from most of the responses here..

ooman: EPICURUS is saying presence of evil disproves a God, OR at least a good God.

this is soo ignorant..The presence of evil disapproves God?.. man i need to come to nairaland more often.

ooman: [size=15pt]DUFFER[/size]

oh the irony

davidylan: If anyone can understand such convoluted logic please help me out.

lol boy am i glad he ignored me

ooman: [size=15pt]IGNORED[/size]

you should. you will be one more, less ignorant to deal with..

ooman: atheists do not cry on God for solutions, you do

are you alright or just dumb. in one sentence i tell you that we create our realities and in another sentence you are telling me i cry on God for solutions?..is that what you deduced from my statement?

davidylan: lol the atheist value system is quite warped. They complain that God hasnt come down and made the earth just one beautiful garden with absolutely no pain or "evil" (forgetting of course that man creates evil by his own freewill)... they then go ahead and moan at God for not giving us the freewill to create the "imperfections" they do not want!

the bolded is the problem which unfortunately is not only an atheist problem but majorly of humans..most people have no idea that they create their reality

all4naija: Hahaha... I can't stop laughing at this comment. Did you expect me to believe this from your own observation? Jeez! This guy is very funny. What is imperfection? It is something with faults, undesirable features,etc. Please!

you should be hahahaing at your ignorance not my comment.. what is imperfect about experiencing something you have created.. there is no imperfertion in the universe you get exactly what you choose.. i dont think you understand what it means for something to be imperfect or faulty( using your definition).. agian none of the things you listed was imperfect.. something faulty is not the same thing as something being wrong or bad.. being wrong or bad is a value judgment..something being faulty is not the same thing as something being wrong or bad