₦airaland Forum

nicetohave:
There is life after death, but i prefer to call it life after life because death (of the physical body) is merely a transition phase into the next life..........so it could either be life after life (if you have peace with God) or death after life (if you do not have peace with God), what it will be is yours to make the choice.

Sir What is life after this life I need to know is it not same as life after death.

I

lifexpress:
Yes indeed and there is so much evidence of this in traditional African society, such as in the names of newborns who come back to life here from someplace off course.
However there is a more direct way to know:
1. To visit a dead relative and discuss past and current issues in your own or their lives.
2. Do the Prayer of HU, pronounced as the word hue in a long drawn out melody for 20minutes before bedtime.
[HU is a sacred name for God; refer Allah-HU and HU-Alleluiah. You sing it as a song of love for God to connect to the Holy Spirit]

I love that HU song of ecks, Please give detailed view

I wish we could seek for the truth. That alone will set us free from all these dogmatic  things.
Again read this


Official Name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS)
Founder: Joseph Smith Jr., on April 6, 1830
Current Leader: Gordon B. Hinckley (b. 1910)
Headquarters: Salt Lake City, Utah
Membership (2000): Worldwide: 11 million in 25,915 wards and branches in 162 countries; United States: 5.1 million in
all 50 states and D.C.; Canada: 156,575.
Missionaries (2000): 60,784
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was
founded by Joseph Smith Jr. (1805-1844). Smith claimed
to have had a visitation from God in 1820 in which God
directed him to establish the true church. Consequently,
he organized the Mormon Church on April 6, 1830, with
six original members. Beginning with a few hundred followers,
the church moved to Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois
before Smith’s death at the hands of a mob at the
Carthage, Ill., jail. Smith had been arrested for encouraging
the destruction of the Expositor, a Nauvoo, Ill., newspaper.
After Smith’s death, Brigham Young was affirmed
as president of the church by a majority of the church’s
leaders and led his followers to Utah where they
established Salt Lake City in 1847. Joseph Smith’s
widow, Emma, resided in Illinois. Those who affirmed
her son, Joseph Smith III, as the true successor of his
father and as prophet of the church in the 1850s helped
found the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints, now headquartered in Independence, Mo.

The issue of religion now make me seek for the truth. Who owns the truth?

chrisd:
Neither of them is actually right

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH


RESPONSE TO A 'DUBIUM'
on the validity of baptism conferred by
«The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints»,
called «Mormons»



Question: Wheter the baptism conferred by the community «The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints», called «Mormons» in the vernacular, is valid.

Response: Negative.

The Supreme Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved the present Response, decided in the Sessione Ordinaria of this Congregation, and ordered it published.

From the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 5 June 2001.


+ Joseph Cardinal RATZINGER

Prefect


  + Tarcisio BERTONE, S.D.B.
Archbishop emeritus of Vercelli
Secretary

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/
documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni_en.html

As United Methodists we agree with their assessment that the LDS Church is not a part of the historic, apostolic tradition of the Christian faith."


We also petition the 2000 General Conference to authorize the General Board of Discipleship to provide resources in accordance with the Sacramental Faithfulness: Guidelines for Receiving People From the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon), to the Church to guide pastors and congregations to receive former Latter-day Saints (Mormons) who seek to become United Methodists in ways that are faithful to our United Methodist heritage

http://www.gc2000.org/pets/cal/TEXT/c0806.asp
   
Mormons
  Q. Are Mormons generally regarded as Christians, and how do their beliefs differ from those of the Missouri Synod?

A. The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, together with the vast majority of Christian denominations in the United States, does not regard the Mormon church as a Christian church. That is because the official writings of Mormonism deny fundamental teachings of orthodox Christianity. For example, the Nicene Creed confesses the clear biblical truth that Jesus Christ, the second Person of the Trinity, is "of one substance with the Father." This central article of the Christian faith is expressly rejected by Mormon teaching -- thus undermining the very heart of the scriptural Gospel itself. In a chapter titled "Jesus Christ, the Son of God: Are Mormons Christian?" the president of Brigham Young University (Rex Lee, What Do Mormons Believe? [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992] summarizes Mormon teaching by stating that the three persons of the Trinity are "not... one being" (21), but are "separate individuals." In addition, the Father is regarded as having a body "of flesh and bone" (22). Such teaching is contrary to the Holy Scriptures, destructive to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and indicative of the fact that Mormon teaching is not Christian.

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2239[color=#990000][/color]


http://www.pcusa.org/pcusa/wmd/eir/mormon.htm

http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/BB_Mormons.pdf

what shall we do if they are all wrong?

Again about the bible ...
IS THE BIBLE THE UNIQUE AND FINAL WORD OF GOD?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many "plain and precious parts" and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon — 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).



Yes where are we.

ok still relying on my ref.
IS THERE MORE THAN ONE TRUE GOD?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that there is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6,8; 45:21,22; 46:9; Mark 12:29-34).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom .
It also teaches that those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p. 302).

the Mormon Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22

the Mormon Church teaches that God himself has a father, and a grandfather, ad infinitum (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373; Mormon Doctrine, p. 577).

Let us all come back to the topic with the comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity

Is Mormonism Christian? This may seem like a puzzling question to many Mormons as well as to some Christians. Mormons will note that they include the Bible among the four books which they recognize as Scripture, and that belief in Jesus Christ is central to their faith, as evidenced by their official name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, many Christians have heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing Christian hymns and are favorably impressed with the Mormon commitment to high moral standards and strong families. Doesn’t it follow that Mormonism is Christian?
http://www.irr.org/mit/Is-Mormonism-Christian.html

I mean Dogma, an authoritative and precisely formulated statement of a religious doctrine that is advanced, not for discussion, but for belief. In its strict sense, the term seems to be peculiar to Christianity. To qualify as a dogma, the formula must fulfill two conditions: It must be derivable from revelation, as attested by Scripture and tradition; and it must be promulgated by some widely recognized ecclesiastical authority. Dogmas have usually been formulated at times of doctrinal controversy, in order to clarify the orthodox teaching in the face of heretical aberrations. Some dogmas formulated by ecumenical councils in the early centuries of the church still command the assent of the great majority of Christians in both the East and the West. Such, for example, is the definition of the person of Christ by the Council of Chalcedon in 451 . Other dogmas come from later times and are binding only within the Roman Catholic church. Such are the Marian dogmas of the immaculate conception (1859) and the assumption (1950) and the dogma of papal infallibility (1870).

Even the most revered dogmas are, like all doctrinal statements, affected by cultural relativism and thus from time to time must be rethought and restated. Terms such as substance, nature, and person, used by the Council of Chalcedon, reflect a philosophical framework that is now obsolete. Nonetheless, the governing intentions of the ancient dogmas still serve as norms for theological discussion.

Ifa . Babalawo must not play 419 with it. Some church people consult ifa at night. More ....

Ifa That is the true world religion.

You are right. but how did Dogma rule the world and how will you explain dogma?

I could not find what the degree holders did either

Nairaland People Please read the full text, Any relevant to Tithe issue?   


MATTHEW CHAPTER 15

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1     ¶ Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2     Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3     But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4     For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5     But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6     And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7     Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8     This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9     But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10     ¶ And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11     Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12     Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13     But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14     Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15     Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16     And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17     Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18     But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19     For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20     These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

May be the tithe payment can defile a man. Paying it in CASH to pastors is not Biblical. QED
And my heavenly Father hath not planted it , so shall it be rooted up.

Matthew 15:

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

donnie:
Matthew 15:14
... ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch."

Yes this means what? let everybody read the full text . You again out of context!

The president of the heart beat of Africa Obasanjo had a taste of the polytechnic. Udenwa of Imo was the Deputy told us that he was a polytechnic product. Ayo fayose was in the Polytechnic Aragbesola of works Lagos state he is an HND holder. Let them say

Searching for life after death moved to Re incanation.
Biblical account and Philosophical Critique of Reincarnation since medical account will not help me.
Reincarnation and karma supposedly supply the answers to the difficult dilemmas of the evil and suffering that we see. I believe that this is one of the reasons why reincarnation is so popular, and increasingly so in the West

Quoting from Raymond Buckland again, we see him stating a similar position:
http://www.apologeticsinfo.org/papers/critiquereincarnation.html#N_28_

Why should one be born crippled, another fit and strong?  if not because we must all eventually experience all things...In the Witchcraft belief, then, one lifetime's experiences are not dependent on the previous one's. For example, if you suffer physical abuse in this life, it does not necessarily mean that you were an abuser in your previous life. It is possible you were, yes. But it is just as possible that you were not but are going to be in the next life. In other words, it is a case of experiencing all things--being both the abuser and the abusee, but one is not necessarily dependent on the other. Several lifetimes could even take place between the one experience and its apparent correlative.

Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; and before you were born I consecrated you, and I appointed you a prophet to the nations" (Jeremiah 1:45).

This passage clearly suggests that Jeremiah existed in a non-earthly part of Creation before he was conceived. This is to say that pre-existence is acknowledged by the Scriptures and that human beings do not come into existence only at birth. If we existed before birth, does that period of existence include, or can it include, a time on earth?
http://www.cinemaseekers.com/Christ/reincarnation.html

How about re - incanation?

Thank you, this is a free world, and that is punch editorial. He is one of them. I have no bussiness with the state schools only the Polytechnic. Polytechnic was a British baby.No longer popular in britain. Nigerian changed to American style of education without a role for the Polytechnic. Why keeping them?

The Punch editor should also watch it because he may be fired.

donnie:
HND,

I have no business discussing Christan doctrines with you.

Because you are far removed from the truth because of your arrogance. Dogmatic in every sense of it, such that you blind your self from basic Truth.

Seek first the Kingdom of God every other thing shall be added unto thee.
Tithe was never in cash. You think you can stop me from saying the truth. You are not a Christ follower but an impostor who want to use the bible to feed.

This is the first and greatest commandment.

'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind

'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Only those who follow Jesus Christ teaching and practices were called Christian not the TITHE collectors like DONNIE

Jesus never told anyone to pay tithe.

Matthew 22:34-40

The Greatest Commandment

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.

35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"

37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

38This is the first and greatest commandment.

39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

I like your style, Marthin Luther proclaimed that these 66 books canonized from the rest as enough for our teaching. The scripture is to help us to grow and listen to God. God still speaks today but the recorded one in the bible blind people from his real unwritten new words.

Numbers 18:26


Listen to this passage


26 "Speak to the Levites and say to them: 'When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD's offering.

Nehemiah 10:38
A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury.


Where are the Aaron descendants in Nigeria today to accompany the Nigerian (Pastors)Levites ?

Those information are for the Levites  check Numbers 18 :8,  and 25 its the ones they were given by istrealites from the farmers products   29.

One reason why there was no command to tithe until the Mosaic Law was that until then there was no Tabernacle (Tent of Meeting) and no Temple, no regular sacrifices commanded (the daily sacrifices alone commanded by the Law required more than 700 animals a year), and no class of Levitical priests to support. None of these would be relevant to a Christian today, even if they did exist.

Should a Christian today tithe? One is free to give 10% if he chooses, but we are not commanded to give any particular percentage or amount. Sad to say that many Christians, once misled and often emotionally coerced into tithing, stopped giving altogether when they learned the tithe is not required. 2 Corinthians 9:6 and 7 make it clear that the more generously we “sow” with the right attitude, the more abundantly we will reap.

You may say, “Well, what about Malachi 3:6-10? That says people who do not tithe are ‘robbing God.’” Those verses have been used innumerable times to prod Christians into giving, but wait a moment—TO WHOM is Malachi written? Well, in verse 9 of chapter 3 it says “the whole nation” is under a curse. What nation? The USA? No, the book of Malachi is specifically addressed to the nation of Israel, and more specifically to the priests (see 1:6,10-13; 2:1,7 and who were badly mistreating God’s people. To use verses from Malachi as if they are talking to Christians is at best poor scholarship and at worst dishonest
http://www.truthortradition.com

"The tithe was basically on animal and agricultural products, and was paid in kind (i.e., the product itself).
If one did not wish to pay his tithe in agricultural products, and decided to give money as a substitute, he was penalized and had to add a fifth part of its estimated value to the amount he paid (Lev. 27:31). Such a law was obviously not intended to encourage payment of the tithe in money.
The main purpose of the tithe was to support the Levitical priesthood. The Levites were responsible to minister to the people, and were prohibited from owning land, which obviously limited the ways in which they could earn income. God’s plan was that their support came from those to whom they ministered, much like the direction of Scripture for the Church today (1 Cor. 9:1ff; Gal. 6:6ff, etc.).
The tithe also provided welfare for widows, orphans, etc."
Not any pastor to swallow

allonym:
This is actually pretty interesting and the source of many problems. Exactly what things should we take literally and what things should we examine in context?


Paying tithes - I say we should look at the context

goodguy:
According to you - in your own words - tithing is a waste of money.

RhodaRose (f)
Michigan USA
Posts: 128
Offline

  Re: To Tithe or Not to Tithe?
« #232 on: November 23, 2005, 12:12 PM » 

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Yes! Yes! Yes!  Pay those tithes 

De 14:22-29
Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. (not week by week) OR MONTHLY

eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there ...   

I AM TO EAT MY TITHE MY SELF THEN PRAISE THE LORD FOR DOING THAT

And if the WAY be too long AND not able to carry it;
Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto ]the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after..., for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.

And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:


Yes you waste your money this is the context of it. Pastors must wait like levites I hope to take pastors to Mr Bigs

goodguy:
I have chosen to waste my money. I still don't know how that affects you.

Goodluck, It means TITHING is  wasting of money .QED. Here I rest my case.

donnie
Cover your face. You could not differentiate letters of Paul from GOSPEL. Taken literary meanings... no wonder you wait for others to pay you tithe. Shallow knowledge.

donnie:
. Are you not a Grail messenger? Why do you pose as a Christian then...and firm believer in Jesus? That is not a sincere at all. I knew you were not a believer from the first day i spoke with you. I told you that, did i not?

Before editing your mail you said I belong to Eck, Now grail . There is nothing like Gail messanger. Grail adherent that is the correct way. Yes agreed they are Christian because they follow Christ teaching. You have not call me Lucifer or what else.  It changes nothing

Even call me anything it can not change my stand on blind believes that are not real. Your Christianity is Just out of HABIT. Why do you refuse to call me Muslim. I read wide and I have the knowledge. think of more names  and call me more. The time of tithe is over, It good to give cheerfully for the work of God than calling "Egunje" tithe

donnie
I am not Eckeist. You mis it. I am a practicing Christian. I read the bible wisely not blindly.

You must know the truth and the truth will set you free from the dogman of tithe.

goodguy:
I still don't see any reason why you should be against other people paying tithes.

Goodguy How can I be against those that wish to waste their money?  What effect has today preachings and million churches in the life of man? Not all that call me father but those that does the will of God. I must say the truth that is my concern.

"The doctrine of tithing contradicts the most important aspects of the New Covenant and the believer's new nature in Christ. "

By their fruit donnie , you look like impostor you are far from being a  Christian

From those that has not the little they had you are ready to take it from them inform of titthe.

Let me speak with the goodguy, Once the foundation is not set right the rest is fake.