₦airaland Forum

Christianity is one of the most absurd and ridiculous superstitions currently in existence across the entire globe. This religion started out a sect estranged form mainstream Judaism and inculcating ideas and mythologies from the Roman and pagan cults of the day. Even to the uncritical and uninitiated with a modicum of history education, it is pretty obvious that this superstitions borrowed and plagiarised most of its ideas from the other superstitions around its place of origin.

That it borrows from Judaism is obvious from the way it unashamedly picks and chooses various bits of the Judaic tradition. It basically picks the bits that advances its agendas and ignores the rest. Some Christians claim that there is a smooth transition from the Judaic regime into the regime led by Christ and that the Torah remains the foundational text on which the belief is based.

But on what basis do Christians pick and choose and ignore and reject various bits of the bible?

Consider the following cases:

1) The 10 Commandments

The 10C are given in several places in the bible - Exodus 20, Exodus 34, Deut 5. Most Christians routine ignore those given in Exodus 34 although these are really the commandments that should be in force given they were meant to replace those of Exodus 20.

2) The Law of the Sabbath.

Why is the Sabbath no longer observed? What is the basis for reject this century-old tradition/commandment. To think that god commandment people to be stoned to death for breaking this commandment means that this was really an important commandment. But why do Christians flout it?

3) The laws on stone recalcitrant children

In several places in the bible, recalcitrant children are to be made the subject of public stoning. Why are christians not observing this commandment?

4) The injunction on usury

The bible clearly puts a bar on lending money with interest. Why is this not observed?

5) The dietary, hygiene and cleanliness laws

These are mostly given in Leviticus. Why have these been sidelined?


What is the theological or spiritual basis for picking and choosing, a la carte style bits of the bible to suit ones agendas?

$$Rhino:
show me one thing in the bible that was wrong, just one.

i am not kidding you at all.

The bible describes a bat as a fowl (or bird), says rabbits chew the cud, says mating animals can select the sex of the offsprings by watching patterns of stripes.

Implies the earth is flat
That the sun goes around the earth
Says Joshua was able to stop the movement of the sun around the earth
That humans are created and descended from Adam&Eve

and more, and more and more

$$Rhino:
Tell me the beginning of islam?
I am not here to debate with you that your religion is wrong or right, but My bible says, that, there is only one name given unto man for salvation and that is Jesus, if you go to where Mohammed was burried, the bones are still there, however, that of Jesus is no more, because he has risen.
So koran is about a dead God and Bible is about a living God.

Your bible has been wrong about many many many many things. Why should we turn to it for anything given its dismal track record.

$$Rhino:
Tell me any book that has been so much fought against and still standing and being true.
Tell me any book that has been and the event recorded in it has been so real and happening by day.
tell me any authour that will want to write a book and will pen down bad side as much as the bible did.
Cos God is not a respecter of person.
He has given us all right to chose between the good and the bad.

How does any of these mean the book is inspired, whatever that means?

BTW, how long do you think the bible as existed as one single book, or as many disparate books?

Can anyone explain why the bible injunction on homosexuality ought to be observed while other laws/commandments are routinely ignored or not heeded?

A_K_O:
Should God have grabbed a pen and paper and written the bible in heaven, then thrown it down to the earth? Obviously no, that's why amongst other reasons, He gave men the ability to write.

@ Topic; one of the ways the devil is confusing the church is by bringing up useless arguments like these when the bible is glaringly clear on them.

That's why he (devil) would get someone as influencial as Oprah Winfrey to give her own idea on 'spirituality', and make it sound as logical and innocent as possible. But it has confused and derailed so many christians. He's quite smart.

I bet, it is angle Michael that inspires Oprah. Is that not obvious from the decor of her studios and her dress. It is even possible to see little angels flying about during her appearances if you have got the right glasses.

$$Rhino:
If i have shown u one and u don't blv it, possibilities of you belving after i show u million is equals to zero, however, here is another one
Romans 1:24-32:

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
.
.
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32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

OK, be that as it may, why should we observe these injunctions? We can just ignore them like the many other injunctions from the bible. Why is this any special than the others that Christians routinely ignore?

$$Rhino:
That is just one, there are so many in the bible, and like i said, for God to be so mad and destroy a whole city because of it, that means, God don't joke with it.

I don't believe any of this. Show me the evidence in the bible. Condemnation in one verse is not enough? Or, is it?

$$Rhino:
Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Do not make a mistake, God loves even those that are practicing homosexualism, but hates the deeds.

I don't think it is on this basis that homosexuality is condemned. If it is truly an abomination, there must surely be more than this.

Provide the scriptural evidence that homosexuality is sinful. If it is sinful, is it immoral?

df2006:
Hope you don't emulate Jesus and Moses. They were utterly reprehensible men. Moses - for ordering the killing of many thousands of people in his tribe and in neighbouring tribes. Jesus - for falsely claiming to be god and thus misguiding many generations of people.

@ huxely reprehensible

adjective .
deserving to be censured: highly unacceptable and deserving censure


the last time i check that was the meaning of the word you used. now you are entitled to your opinion, no long thing. but it seems to me a vast majority of people do not think jesus or moses was unacceptable, or deserving censure, in fact the reverse is the case, so probably you might rephrase your words. i have gone through some of your postings, i do not want to think you are ignorant, the effort to make people believe you, dose not mean, you should further alienate yourself by poor choice of words. cheers man.

Every word was deliberated chosen to convey exactly the meaning I wanted. In fact, I could have chosen stronger words I would have. Let me say it again;

Jesus and Moses (if they existed) were some of the most vile and disgusting and despeakable men in history;

For some of Moses's crime read Numbers chapters 5 and 31.

The new testament is a litany of absurdities uttered by Jesus, for example;

“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35)

If you want to debate these issues, join me in the Religion section.

BTW, the fact that the majority do not consider these men as vile is only indicative of the ignorance of most men and the brilliance PR champagne from the religious authorities of present them as great men. Well, they can no longer benefit from having their record white-watched by the PR agents.

df2006:
Hope you don't emulate Jesus and Moses. They were utterly reprehensible men. Moses - for ordering the killing of many thousands of people in his tribe and in neighbouring tribes. Jesus - for falsely claiming to be god and thus misguiding many generations of people.

@ huxely reprehensible

adjective .
deserving to be censured: highly unacceptable and deserving censure


the last time i check that was the meaning of the word you used. now you are entitled to your opinion, no long thing. but it seems to me a vast majority of people do not think jesus or moses was unacceptable, or deserving censure, in fact the reverse is the case, so probably you might rephrase your words. i have gone through some of your postings, i do not want to think you are ignorant, the effort to make people believe you, dose not mean, you should further alienate yourself by poor choice of words. cheers man.

Every word was deliberated chosen to convey exactly the meaning I wanted. In fact, I could have chosen stronger words I would have. Let me say it again;

Jesus and Moses (if they existed) were some of the most vile and disgusting and despeakable men in history;

For some of Moses's crime read Numbers chapters 5 and 31.

The new testament is a litany of absurdities uttered by Jesus, for example;

“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35)

If you want to debate these issues, join me in the Religion section.

BTW, the fact that the majority do not consider these men as vile is only indicative of the ignorance of most men and the brilliance PR champagne from the religious authorities of present them as great men. Well, they can no longer benefit from having their record white-watched by the PR agents.

Cayon:
Growing up in a Christian home, I was taught in the eyes of God, sin is sin. Some even say that the moment you are born, you are a sinner b/c we born into a sinful world Let's look at the word sin first. . . . ."Sin" as a word, is actually a greek term in archery which means "missing the mark". so i am assumng that "the mark" is god's righteousness.

Well, for those who don't think all sins are equal, well, guess what? all are equally deadly. The wages of Sin is death refers to spiritual death, separation from the Lord, not the punishment instituted by law, stoning etc.
The good news is, once we ask God for forgiveness He forgives us and our sin, no matter what it is. Yippee

Peace

Well, you have been poorly served by your upbringing. As an adult now, you should leave the poor and corrupted education of your childhood and educate your in the rationalism.

Are the following calculated to inspire peace or are they meant to inspire fear and terror?

“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35)


This is terrorism in every sense of the word

Learn about the god of the bible here

Mad_Max:
I just want answers to his questions. It doesn't help to say he shouldn't ask questions. He doesn't believe God exists, but he dislikes him in case he's wrong and there is a God. I'm sure God can withstand close scrutiny, even if we can't. Please advice on what to tell him. It doesnt matter if it's speculation; how many things do we know for sure anyway?

Your friend is not only an atheist he is also an anti-theist. I have exactly the same sentiments. The god of the bible is a pretty vile, repugnant and reprehensible character. To love such a character is to display not only gross ignorance but also a failure to develop higher moral if not thinking abilities.

Cayon:
@ lady:

I've never found any evidence to indicate that Jesus saw himself as God.

In fact just this morning I was reading from John where Jesus is praying to God "Sanctify them through thy truth; they word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. , And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one; I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." The Bible do not teach that Jesus was God in the flesh. In the Gospels, Jesus refers to himself as the Son of God, not as God, and he frequently mentions and speaks with his Father, God.

Jesus is always very clear that he is not God. In fact he rebukes Peter when Peter calls him "good", saying "there is none good but the Father."

It was God who raised Jesus from the dead and exalted him to his right hand. Acts 2:32, 33 says: "This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses. Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God."

Also, the bible says that God has no beginning and no ending. Jesus had both, so he can't be God

Peace

Well said. You made my point, albeit reluctantly.

davidylan:
hahahahaha wont you just love it if islamic terrorists simply focused on abortionists? At least the rest of us wont have to worry about Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Kano, Borno, Sokoto, cartoons, teddy bears, aircraft hijackings . . .

To equate criminal anti-abortionists (who absolutely have ZERO support within the christian community and is ABSOLUTELY condemned by theh scriptures) to islamic terrorists is to expose yourself as a complete fool desperately clinging to straws to save a drowning argument.

Would you love it if islamic terrorist focussed on abortion doctors? I most certainly would NOT love it. I don't believe you said this. A testament of you twisted mind and the damage religion has done to your thinking.

Some Islamic terrorists and anti-abortionist (of the Army of God variety) are motivated by the same ideology, their belief in their religion. It is only to this extend they are in common, an that is what I said in my earlier post. You are so keen to twist my words and impart meaning I never meant. I chose my words very carefully to convey the exact meaning I intended. If I were to rephrase it, I would use the word "some" to describe both religious groups as it is only a tiny, tiny minority within both groups that advocate terrorist activities.

huxley:
Not only moslems kill in the name of religion - Christians have and are still killing in the name of their religion. Think about the doctors killed in America in the name of the Christian religion.

I agree with you point about support within their respective communities - there is a subculture within the islamic world that support the terrorist but it is difficult to tell if this is politically motivated (with their territorial disenfranchisement) or religiously motivated. However, I am not aware of any support whatsoever within the mainstream christian community of support for the killing of abortion doctors. Having granted that, the point I made in my post still stands;

Some people (a very small minority) commit terrorist activities, drawing motivation from the bible.

Check out the work of Army Of God, with respect to target and killing doctors in USA and Canada - http://www.armyofgod.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Army_of_God

Not only moslems kill in the name of religion - Christians have and are still killing in the name of their religion. Think about the doctors killed in America in the name of the Christian religion.

samba123:
I don't see any good answer from the Audience explained regarding "When Is Jesus God and When is He Christ?

When is Jesus God? today, tomorrow next year etc, kindly explain the thing stead of post a
r uuuuuuuu , ubbish comment.

When is He Christ? before or after what constitute him becoming of christ? we need a brief explaination regarding this claimant oh,

Well, I did not really expect a coherent answer. They are incapable of answering as their minds has been taken over by superstitious non-sense.

Next time you see a Christian woman in the pain labour, these words might be of some great consolation to her.

Here is the recipe - Your righteousness must exceed those of the Scribes and the Pharisees. Essentially, you must be unbending sticklers for the law. I wonder what laws this refers to!

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.



Jesus don talk am, so wona don read-am and hear-am naah

davidylan:
thou ignorant and slow to understanding . . . i repeat that 1 John 3 was NOT refering to humanly constituted laws . . . now just a few verses to put your senility to rest . . .

Now . . . righteousness unto WHAT was John talking about here? righteousness as regards Roman or Jewish customary laws?

Why shld he that disobeys roman law be of the devil? Does that make sense? Did Christ come to die that we may be more able to obey yoruba tribal laws?

Whosoever is born of God will sometimes out of error go over the speed limit . . . is that a sin to keep such a one out of heaven?

Oh my goodness. What are these laws? Are they the 10 commandments, the golden-rule law, the hygiene laws, the cleanliness laws, the dietary laws, etc, etc.


Are there any laws about righteousness and how does one become righteous? Let's turn to Matthew 5 and listen to Jesus speak;



17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20[b]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven[/b].




What laws is Jesus referring to here? The scribes and the Pharisees were unbending sticklers for the Mosaic laws (you know things like Exodus 21: 17, the stoning for breaking the sabbath etc).

Was Jesus suggesting his followers become even more observant of the Old Testament laws than the Pharisees? Is this what righteousness is?

ibkaye:
In the eyes of God, a sin is a sin, there is no such thing as 'little sin', 'big sin' as we have here on earth, in the sense that a murderer will be looked down upon more than say a liar, to God, a sin is a sin

So god's systems of justice is inherently more cruel that human justice. Humans justice has a scale of crime and punishment, with crimes like murder, rape, child-abuse considered the most vile and punished severely by all civil legal systems. Other crimes like perjury, theft of small things etc are not as severely punished. Basically, in human jurisprudence, there's the concept of proportionality.

But this apears to be missing from god's system. On god's system Hitler would end up in the same place as someone who stole an apple. Is that justice and is this s just god?

davidylan:
The first question a rational human would ask himself on reading John's statement would have been - WHAT LAW WAS HE REFERING TO?
Sadly the ability to think is not a part of the arsenal of your ilk.

Lets break it down for you - When John talks of "the law" he is primarily refering to the laws that govern the regenerated soul/the believer. 1 John 3 said nothing remotely close to refering to human laws. Breaking English law would not constitute a sin according to the bible EXCEPT the bible also says to obey constituted authority.

Where the deuce did you get that interpretation from? Are you just making things up as you go along, as is the wont of most christians. Here is 1 John 3; Can you show me how you derived that interpretation;

1 John 3

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

11For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

13Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

14We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

19And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

davidylan:
The first question a rational human would ask himself on reading John's statement would have been - WHAT LAW WAS HE REFERING TO?
Sadly the ability to think is not a part of the arsenal of your ilk.

Lets break it down for you - When John talks of "the law" he is primarily refering to the laws that govern the regenerated soul/the believer. 1 John 3 said nothing remotely close to refering to human laws. Breaking English law would not constitute a sin according to the bible EXCEPT the bible also says to obey constituted authority.

Was that not the FIRST question I asked? Scroll up and take a look. This is it below and your accusation are groundless.

huxley:
What law are you talking about? If I infringe a Yoruba tribal law, is that sin? C'mon, be more specific!

Whatever I may suffer from, I am not delusional. And you have failed to deal with any of the issues I have raised, my illness notwithstanding.

Or were the Yoruba just savages who did not have laws in their community and lived in utter anarchy? (Pardon me, I don't mean to insult Yoruba people)

davidylan:
What an idiot, was yoruba tribal law in existence when apostle John wrote his book?

Am prepare to hazard a guess that if the Yoruba people existed 2000 years ago, then they would have had tribal laws within their community. Or were the Yoruba just savages who did not have laws in their community and lived in utter anarchy? (Pardon me, I don't mean to insult Yoruba people)


You appear not to have got the drift of my question. Let me make really, really, r-e-a-l-l-y s-i-m-p-l-y f-o-r y-o-u t-o u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d.

Would sin be a transgression of the Roman laws, the Greek laws? Which laws upon transgression constitute sin?

So we are agreed that according to the bible Jesus was not without sin/crime?

davidylan:
the very same way you claim to know His mind by regarding Him as barbaric.

Ah, the bible.