₦airaland Forum

Does the history of the Protestant
churches end this way? No! The
history of the Protestant churches is a
history of revivals. When Luther first
started, many were saved, revived,
and greatly recovered. One
characteristic of the Protestant
churches is "recovery.'' We do not
know to what extent the Holy Spirit
will work. Luther reformed something;
thus, the Lutheran Church came out.
The truth of the presbytery was seen;
thus, the Presbyterian Church was
organized. Wesley appeared;
therefore, the Methodist Church was
established. Today in the world there
are still many smaller churches. In
1914 there were already more than
1500 churches.
Thank the Lord, Sardis was often
blessed by God. But once there was
the blessing of the Lord, men
organized something to contain the
blessing. Although the Lord's blessing
is still there, the sphere remains only
that big. The Protestant churches are
like a cup. At the beginning of revival,
people will go wherever there is living
water. Wherever the Spirit of God is
moving, people will go in that
direction. Men used a cup with the
hope of preserving the living water
without loss. The advantage of doing
this is that it keeps the grace, and the
disadvantage is that there is just one
cup of blessing. In the first generation
the cup was full. By the second
generation the cup was only half filled,
and the nebulousness began. By the
third or fifth generation, the water was
gone and only an empty cup was left.
Then they began to argue with other
denominations as to whose cup was
better, though all the cups were
worthless for drinking. What was the
result? God reacted again, and in
came another Sardis. This is the
whole history of revival. When the
grace of God comes, men
immediately set up an organization to
keep it. The organization remains, but
the content is lost. However, the cup
cannot be broken; there are always
those who are zealous to maintain the
cup continuously. Here is a matter of
principle: The students of Wesley
could never be equal to Wesley, nor
could the students of Calvin match
Calvin. The schools of the prophets
seldom produced prophets—all the
great prophets were chosen by God
from the wilderness. The Spirit of God
descends upon whomsoever He will.
He is the Head of the church, not we.
Men always think the living water is
valuable and must be kept by
organization, but it gradually declines
through the generations until it
completely dries up. After it dries up,
the Lord gives us living water again in
the wilderness.

The
Reformation did not bring the church
back to the condition of the
beginning; it only caused the world
church to become state churches.
Thyatira is condemned for putting the
church in the world; likewise, Sardis is
condemned for putting the church in
the states. "You have a name that you
are living, and yet you are dead.'' The
Reformation was living, but there
were still many dead things.
Later, many "dissenters'' developed,
such as the Presbyterian Church, etc.
On one hand, there is the Roman
Catholic Church; on the other hand,
there are the Protestant churches.
Among the Protestant churches, aside
from those established according to
states, there are also churches set up
according to different opinions and
doctrines. The dissenters do not take
the state as the boundary but their
doctrine as the boundary. Therefore,
there are two kinds of churches
among the Protestant churches: one
is state and the other is private. Today
we see the union of the state and the
church in Germany, Great Britain, and
so forth. Rome has the world church,
while Great Britain and Germany, etc.,
have the state church. The kings and
chiefs of the states do not want to
listen to the pope, yet they want
others to listen to them. In politics
they want to be the kings; in religion
they also want to be the kings. As a
result, the state churches came into
existence. People never raised the
question as to what the church is like
in the Bible. People did not go back to
the Bible to see whether it is proper
to have state churches. Later, the
private churches came into being also.
The establishment of the private
churches was due to the exalting of a
certain doctrine; thus, they separated
themselves from those who did not
have the same doctrine. The Baptist
Church was established because
someone saw baptism; the
Presbyterian Church was established
because someone saw the presbytery
system in the church. The church was
established not because someone
knew what the church is; rather, the
church was established according to a
system. These two kinds of Protestant
churches—the state and the private—
the Lord says, have not gone back to
the purpose in the beginning. This
statement is most significant.
"Become watchful and establish the
things which remain, which were
about to die'' (v. 2). This refers to
justification by faith and the open
Bible and the life that is gained from
them. In the whole history of Sardis,
these were about to die; therefore,
the Lord said, "Establish the things
which remain, which were about to
die.'' Today in the Protestant
churches, the regulations of men are
still in force, even though the Bible is
already opened. Therefore, the Lord
said, "I have found none of your
works completed before My God'' (v.
2). Even what they already have is not
complete. Some of their things are not
complete; they were not complete
from the very start. "Remember
therefore how you have received and
heard, and keep it and repent'' (v. 3).....

Rev. 3:1-6
"Sardis'' means
"the remains.'' The church in Sardis is
God's reaction to Thyatira. The history
of revival in the churches throughout
the entire world indicates divine
reactions. Whenever the Lord begins a
revival work, He is reacting. God's
reaction is man's recovery. I would
like you to keep this principle firmly in
mind. Sardis appears because the
Lord has seen the condition of
Thyatira.
In Revelation several churches are in
pairs. Sardis is connected with
Ephesus. Philadelphia is connected
with Smyrna, and Laodicea is
connected with Pergamos. Only
Thyatira stands alone. In Sardis the
Lord says that His name is "He who
has the seven Spirits of God and the
seven stars: I know your works, that
you have a name that you are living,
and yet you are dead'' (Rev. 3:1). The
epistle to Ephesus says that His right
hand holds seven stars, while the
epistle to Sardis says that He has the
seven stars. Ephesus is the slackening
after the apostles, that is, the
changing from something good to
bad; Sardis is the recovery from
Thyatira, that is, the changing from
something bad to good. Having works
but no love is Ephesus; living in name
but dead in reality is Sardis. So these
two are a pair. The Lord manifests
Himself as He who has the seven
Spirits. The seven Spirits of God are
sent of God to the world to work, and
this refers to the work of life. The
seven stars in Ephesus refer to the
messengers; here they refer to the
illumination. The work of recovery is
half in the Spirit and half in the light.
Sardis is similar to Thyatira in that she
includes a long period of time, from
the reformed churches until the Lord
comes back again. Although the time
of Sardis is not as long as Thyatira,
she refers not only to the church
during the Reformation, but also to
church history following the
Reformation.
"I know your works, that you have a
name that you are living, and yet you
are dead.'' I believe no one will doubt
that Martin Luther was a servant of
the Lord and the Reformation was the
work of God. The Reformation was a
great work, and it was a divine
reaction. Surely the Lord used Luther
as a mouthpiece; he was a man
especially chosen by God. When
Luther first started, the Reformation
was entirely Sardis. His purpose was
solely for recovery. The Lord does not
say that the work of Luther was not
good; rather, He says it was not
complete. It was good, but not good
enough. In the eyes of the Lord, He
has not found anything complete—
everything was a beginning without an
end. The Lord is a Lord of completion;
therefore, He requires completion. For
this reason, we must ask Him that we
may see.
The problem of justification was
solved following Luther. Justification is
by faith, and having peace before the
Lord is by faith. Luther not only gave
us justification by faith; he also gave
us an open Bible. In Thyatira the
authority is in the hands of Jezebel—
in other words, in the hands of the
church. It is a matter of what the
church says, not what the Lord says. It
is all a matter of what the mother
church says: All the people of the
Roman Catholic Church listen to the
mother church. So the Lord says He
will kill her "children.'' You say the
mother, but the Lord says the
children. Luther showed us what the
Lord says and what the Bible says.
Men can read God's Word, and men
can see for themselves what God
actually says, not what Rome says.
When the open Bible comes, the
whole church is enlightened.
However, a problem arises:
Protestantism did not give us a proper
church. As a result, wherever the
doctrine of justification by faith and
the open Bible went, a state church
was established. The Lutheran sect
became the state church in many
countries. Later, in England the
Anglican Church came into being,
which is also a state church.
Beginning with Rome, the nature of
the church was changed. By the time
of justification by faith and the return
of the open Bible, the Protestant
churches had not yet seen what the
church should be. Although there
were justification by faith and the
open Bible, the Protestant churches
still followed the example of Rome
and did not return to the church in
the beginning. During the
Reformation the problem of the
church was not solved. Luther did not
reform the church. Luther himself
said that we should not think
"justification by faith'' is enough; there
are many more things to be changed.
Yet the people in the Protestant
churches stopped right there. Luther
did not stop, but they stopped and
said that it was good enough.
Although they went back to the faith
of the beginning, the church herself
remained unchanged. Formerly, there
was the international church of Rome;
now it is the state church of England
or the state church of Germany—that
is all.......

"But I say to you—the rest in Thyatira,
as many as do not have this teaching,
who have not known the deep things
of Satan, as they say—I put no other
burden upon you; nevertheless what
you have hold fast until I come'' (vv.
24-25). "The rest in Thyatira''; although
Jezebel is here, there are still the rest.
When Jezebel set out to kill Elijah,
Elijah was greatly discouraged upon
hearing it. What did he do? He hid
himself. Then God said to him, "What
doest thou here?'' While he was
murmuring, the Lord said, "Yet I have
left me seven thousand'' (1 Kings
19:9-18). These are "the rest in
Thyatira.'' When Jezebel lived on this
earth, there was Elijah; in the Roman
Catholic Church there have also been
many who belonged to the Lord. Thank
the Lord, there are still those who "do
not have this teaching, who have not
known the deep things of Satan, as
they say.'' The phrase "deep things'' in
Greek is bathea, which means
mystery. The Roman Catholic Church
greatly likes to use this word. They
have many mysteries or deep
doctrines in their midst. These
doctrines are not of the Lord, but are
the words of Jezebel. The Lord will not
put any other burden upon those
who do not have this teaching, but
they must hold fast to that which they
already have. Hold fast "My works"
which you have known—that is
enough. Do not lose what you already
have, "until I come.''
"And he who overcomes and he who
keeps My works until the end, to him I
will give authority over the nations;
and he will shepherd them with an
iron rod, as vessels of pottery are
broken in pieces, as I also have
received from My Father'' (Rev.
2:26-27). This is the first promise.
What is the meaning of this? Everyone
who tends sheep has a rod. When the
sheep do not behave well, he can use
the rod to beat them gently. Matthew
13:40-42 indicates that an angel will
come and gather out of His kingdom
all the things that offend, that is, use
force to cast out all the things that are
not right. But this does not mean that
the nations will no longer exist in the
millennium. We know they will still be
there. Through the iron rod God will
break these things into pieces.
God produces stones; man produces
bricks. Bricks are very similar to
stones. The tower of Babel was built of
bricks. From the tower of Babel to 2
Timothy, all those who imitate Him are
earthen vessels ("vessels of pottery".
The Lord says that the overcomer will
shepherd the nations and break the
earthen vessels in pieces. The word
"shepherd'' means that something is
not accomplished all at once but
rather done by beating one by one as
the need arises. This is shepherding.
This sort of thing will probably be
done continuously until the new
heaven and new earth are brought in.
The kingdom is the introduction to
the new heaven and new earth. In the
new heaven and new earth, only
righteousness dwells. That is why the
iron rod must be used to shepherd
the nations and break in pieces all the
things that come out of men.
"And to him I will give the morning
star'' (Rev. 2:28). This is the second
promise.
Many people
see the sun, but few have seen the
morning star. One day the Lord will
be seen by the whole world, as
recorded in Malachi 4:2: "The Sun of
righteousness [will] arise.'' Before
everyone sees the light, some may see
it first while in darkness. This is what it
means to receive the morning star.
Just before the day breaks, it is really
dark. But the morning star appears at
that very moment. The Lord promises
the overcomer that he will receive the
morning star at the darkest time. This
means that he will see the Lord and
be raptured. When we see the sun, it
is always during the daylight hours,
but he who sees the morning star is
one who makes a special point of
rising to see while others are asleep.
This is the promise to the overcomer.
"He who has an ear, let him hear
what the Spirit says to the
churches'' (Rev. 2:29). The Lord is
speaking not only to the Roman
Catholic Church but also to all the
churches.

The facts
are placed before us; there is not one
church that is like the Roman Catholic
Church with so many idols. We can
say that the best class of idols is made
by the Roman Catholic Church.
The remarkable thing is that they have
fulfilled what has been prophesied in
the Bible. There is an image of the
Father and an image of the Son; there
are images of the apostles and
images of the ancient saints. They
worship Mary; they worship Peter.
Jezebel teaches the Lord's servants to
commit fornication and eat the meat
offered to idols. Jezebel is spoken of
because the church has brought in
Gentile gods. The most
evident is the image of Mary. Some
think that at least Mary is of
Christianity. But the fact is that Greece
has a goddess, India has a goddess,
Egypt has a goddess, and Nigeria has a
goddess; every religion in the world
has a goddess, except Christianity.
Since there must be a goddess, they
bring forth Mary. Actually there is no
goddess in Christianity—the origin of
the concept of a goddess is the
Gentiles. So this is idolatry on top of
fornication. This is Jezebel bringing in
the things of the Gentiles to the
kingdom of Israel.
She calls herself a prophetess because
she wants to preach and to teach. The
position of the church before God is
that of a woman. Whenever the
church has authority to preach, that is
Jezebel. The church has nothing to
say; in other words, the church has
no word. The Son of God is the Word;
therefore, only He has the word.
Christ is the Head of the church;
therefore, only He can speak.
Whenever the church speaks, that is
the preaching of the woman. The
Roman Catholic Church is the woman
preaching. In the Roman Catholic
Church, what matters is what the
church says, not what the Bible says
or what the Lord says. It is quite
remarkable that God says that Jezebel
is the prophetess and the woman
who speaks. "My slaves'' refers to
individual slaves. Jezebel has the
authority to direct every believer. The
people in the Roman Catholic Church
do not read the Bible, because they
are afraid of misunderstanding what
God means. Only the fathers can
understand and only the fathers can
speak; therefore, only they can decide
all matters. Basically the Roman
Catholic Church is the preaching of
the woman who decides what the
children of God should do. Many
doctrines have been changed because
she speaks for the church and people
must listen to the church. The Jewish nation
(Israel) had only one woman who
killed the prophets, Jezebel. In the
previous centuries we do not know
how many witnesses died at the
hands of the Roman Catholic Church.
They claim that what they decide is
always right. The people's ideas are
entirely in their hands. The Lord said
that the failure of Thyatira is due to
the fact that she allows the teaching
of Jezebel in her midst.
"And I gave her time that she might
repent, and she is not willing to
repent of her fornication'' (Rev. 2:21).
They are still united with the world
and filled with the behavior of the
world. "Behold, I cast her into a
bed'' (v. 22)—not into a coffin, but
into a bed. A coffin means it is
finished; a bed means it is not
finished. It means that she will not be
changed throughout her entire life.
The patient cannot be cured and
cannot be changed. Continuing in her
present condition, she is incurable—
this is the condition of the Roman
Catholic Church. In 1926 Mussolini
and the pope signed an agreement,
setting aside the Vatican from Italy so
that it could become an independent
state, having its own court and police,
etc. Believers in the Roman Catholic
Church increase yearly. In Revelation 17 we
see to what extent this church will
develop. Now it is undoubtedly
becoming stronger and stronger. But
the Lord says to His own people,
"Come out of her, My people'' (18:4).
What does the Lord say about those
who have committed adultery with
her and about her children? "I
cast...those who commit adultery with
her, into great tribulation, unless they
repent of her works; and her children
I will kill with death'' (2:22-23). These
words probably refer to God's
destroying of the Roman Catholic
Church through the Antichrist and his
followers. "And all the churches will
know that I am He who searches the
inward parts and the hearts; and I will
give to each one of you according to
your works'' (v. 23)....

Rev. 2:18-29
Thyatira means "the sacrifice of
perfume,'' The Lord says that He is
the One who has "eyes like a flame of
fire'' (Rev. 2:18). Nothing can hide
from His eyes. He is the light; He
Himself is the illumination. At the
same time He says that "His feet are
like shining bronze'' (v. 18). In the
Bible bronze signifies judgment. What
the eyes see, the feet judge. All Bible
scholars agree that the church in
Thyatira refers to the Roman Catholic
Church. This does not refer to the
confusion which resulted from the
marriage with the world in the
beginning—that is now over. Now the
situation has become so gross, so full
of heresy and sacrifice. It is indeed
remarkable how the Roman Catholic
Church pays so much attention to
behavior and sacrifice. The mass is
their sacrifice.
The Roman Catholic Church,
according to our observation, has
nothing good, but God says, "I know
your works and love and faith and
service and your endurance and that
your last works are more than the
first'' (v. 19). The Lord acknowledges
that there is reality in the Roman
Catholic Church. Madame Guyon,
Tauler, and Fenelon were all in the
Roman Catholic Church, and we can
mention many more of the best
names. Indeed, there are many in the
Roman Catholic Church who know
the Lord. We should never think that
there are none who are saved in the
Roman Catholic Church. The Lord still
has His own people there—of this we
must be very clear before the Lord.
What we are taking note of now is
how desolate the church has become
in her outward appearance.The Lord says, "But I have
something against you, that you
tolerate the woman Jezebel, she who
calls herself a prophetess and teaches
and leads My slaves astray to commit
fornication and to eat idol
sacrifices'' (v. 20). Who is Jezebel?
Jezebel was the wife of Ahab, who
married her from the land of the
Zidonians, the Gentiles. Jezebel
seduced the people to worship Baal
(1 Kings 16:30-32). Baal was the god
of the Gentiles, not the God of the
people of Israel. Jezebel told the
people to worship the image of Baal.
The problem was not just idols, but
that God had been replaced. Baal was
brought in and worshipped as their
own god. In the history of the Jewish
nation (Israel) up to 1 Kings 16, no
one had ever led the people of Israel
to sin in such a way as Ahab.the coming together of Ahab
and Jezebel was fornication.
Fornication is confusion. What God
sees is a woman who is confusing the
words of God and the people of God.
This woman brought in the god of the
Gentiles. And the
result of fornication is idolatry. The
New Testament speaks of the
conference at Jerusalem, the result of
which was to exhort the Gentile
brothers to abstain from meat offered
to idols and from fornication (Acts
15:29). Here we see that the
fornication of Jezebel brought idols
into the kingdom of Israel. Through Jezebel, Ahab was joined to
the world. No matter where you are, it
is apparent that the Roman Catholic
Church unites herself with political
powers. She sends out ambassadors
and ministers to various nations, and
in important world crises she stands
up to speak. The uniting of the church
with the world is the Roman Catholic
Church. They claim that their first
pope was Peter. But I think Peter
would say that he was a disciple of the
poor Jesus of Nazareth; the glory and
honor of the world had nothing to do
with him. Yet the Roman Catholic
Church maintains her position in the
world and commands respect from
the people. The practice of the Roman
Catholic Church within these more
than one thousand years is, according
to the James 4:4, the same as the
greatest adultery. Here we see that the
church has lost her virginity. Today
there is a group of people who think
that they can bargain with others
since they have such a large
membership. According to men it is a
type of advancement for the church to
be able to bargain, but according to
God, it is sin for the church to gain
what the world has gained.
What is the result? Idolatry.

May the Grace,Peace,Love and Mercy of our Lord Jésus Christ multiple greatly, in the lifes of organisers,the presenters and also to we the audience.
guys,thank you,thank you and thank you once again.
U guys are too much.

Psalm 42:7 says, "Deep calls unto
deep." Only a call from the depths
can provoke a response from the
depths. Nothing shallow can ever
touch the depths, nor can anything
superficial touch the inward parts.
Only the deep will respond to the
deep. Anything that does not issue
from the depths cannot touch the
depths. Others can respond deep
within to only what issues from deep
within us. When we go to a certain
place and listen to a message, the
only thing that touches us is
something that has issued from the
depths of others. If nothing comes
from the depths, the help we receive
is just superficial. We have to see the
importance of the depths. Anything
that is not from the depths will never
reach the depths of others. If we have
never received help or benefit in our
depths, we will never have anything
issuing from our depths. If we want
to render spiritual help to others,
something must issue from our
depths. If we do not dig deep, we can
never gain others. Unless our
utterance is from the depths, we will
not touch the depths in others, even
though we gain their emotions and
thoughts and make them cry or be
happy or excited for a while. Only
deep calls unto deep. Superficial
expressions will not touch the depths
of others.
DEEP ROOTS
One principle in preaching and
receiving the word is found in the
Lord's parable of the sower. While the
sower sowed, some seeds fell beside
the way, some on the rocky place,
some into the thorns, and some into
the good earth. This shows us four
different ways for man to receive the
word. The Lord Jesus tells us that
among these different conditions, one
is the rocky place. There is a little
earth on the surface, but underneath
there are rocks. When the seed falls
into this kind of ground, it springs up
quickly, but as soon as the sun comes
out, it withers because of the lack of
root.
What is a root? It is growth that
occurs beneath the soil. What are the
leaves? They are growth that occur
above the soil. In other words, roots
are the hidden life, whereas leaves
are the manifest life. The trouble with
many Christians is that, while there is
much apparent life, there is very little
secret life. In other words, there is the
lack of a hidden life. You have been a
Christian for a number of years, have
you not? Then let me ask: How much
of your life is hidden from view? How
much is unknown to others? You
stress outward works. Yes, good
works are important; but apart from
that manifest expression of your life,
how much of your life remains
hidden? If all your spiritual life is
exposed, you do not have any root.
Are all your virtues before God
manifested before man, or is there
something more that is unknown to
man? If all your experiences are
manifested, then all your growth is
upward; there is no downward
growth. If this is the case, you are a
person who has only leaves without
root, and you are on shallow ground.
In our Christian life it is necessary that
we learn the meaning of the Body of
Christ; we must learn to have a life of
the Body. On the other hand, we
must learn that the life given to each
member of His Body by the Lord is
distinctly individual. The measure that
has been given to you personally by
Him needs to be guarded; otherwise,
it will lose its specific character and
will be of no particular use to God. If
that which has been specially
committed to you is exposed, it will
wither.
The discourse of the Lord Jesus on
the Mount was most remarkable. On
the one hand He said, "You are the
light of the world. It is impossible for
a city situated upon a mountain to be
hidden" (Matt. 5:14). It is open. On
the other hand He said, "When you
give alms, do not let your left hand
know what your right hand is doing,
so that your alms may be in
secret;...when you pray, enter into
your private room, and shut your
door and pray to your Father who is
in secret" (Matt. 6:3-4, 6). On the one
hand, if you are a Christian, you must
come right out into the open and
make a public profession; on the
other hand, there are Christian virtues
which you should preserve from the
public gaze. The Christian who
parades all his virtues before men and
who does not have anything in the
depth of his being has no root; he will
not be able to stand in the day of trial
and temptation.
We have been the Lord's children
many years; may the Lord open our
eyes and show us the extent to which
our experiences have been hidden
from public view. How much would
be left if what is known by man was
taken away? May God work in us so
that we can take root downward.

Image123: Grace for unborn children, oh la la. Nice one @yooguyz.

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of
our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath
blessed us with all spiritual blessings
in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the WORLD, that we should be holy andré
without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the
adoption of children by Jesus Christ to
himself, according to the good
pleasure of his will,

shdemidemi: I dey fine my brother.
That emboldened statement didnt flush down well with me though.

Lol,abeg make we leave am like that for now.
Lets forcus on the up coming Convention.

shdemidemi: I think Martha believed Christ as the resurrection and the life(going by her words), if she believes Jesus can yet raise Lazarus is another thing.
She was more or less confused in that story. At one point she says-
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.
After saying this, she was told that her brother will rise. She replied saying 'I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day'.
Meaning she isn't even thinking Lazarus will come back to life there and then.
The sister also went to Jesus, indirectly blaming Him for the death of their brother- 'Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died'.
They had lost hope, they all started to weep, so much that Christ wept for their unbelief. Jesus eventually commanded that stone be rolled away from Lazarus grave. The same Martha started giving excuses why jesus cannot raise Lazarus.
Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Jesus needed to do what He did because of their unbelief not because they did believe or prayed in a certain way-
Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
Going by the story, I don't think they had faith that He could do what He did, so they couldn't have prayed for such miracle. God had to make them see to make them believe. Will God do a miracle to make us believe today? No.
They were Jews, they believed in signs. We are christians, we live by faith and not by sight. In other words, God will do whatever He wants to do whenever He wants to do them according to His mercy, grace, will and purpose regardless of how and if we ask.

I didnt say that they believe He could raise Lazarus frm the grave.all i said is that they believe He is the Son of God.that alone is sufficient, for He stood on the grounds of there believe of Him been the Son of , God and rose Lazarus.though they doubt His capability of been the Ressuration n Life then,but they still believe Hes thé Son of God,and that alone is sufficient periodically.
How u dey today self.

shdemidemi: Thanks for response-
Going by the story of Lazarus, Mary and Martha had no hope that their brother will rise again. So, we can't say their prayers prompted Christ to raise Lazarus.

My take

Thé réal question is do they have faith in Him?? I believe they do.
John 11:
25Jesus told her, “I am the
resurrection and the life. e Anyone
who believes in me will live, even
after dying. 26Everyone who lives in
me and believes in me will never
ever die. Do you believe this,
Martha?”
27“Yes, Lord,” she told him. “I have
always believed you are the Messiah,
the Son of God, the one who has
come into the world from God.”
As long as they believe in Him thats all that matters in relation to the OP though.

shdemidemi: Thanks for response-

When I said God is comparatively silent today, I was actually comparing this time to what it was when He spoke audibly to His prophets. He anoints/enables them to carry out assignments by His Spirit, this enabled such men the privilege to hear Him speak.

If we go by what the bible says, we must accept God isn't speaking based on hap or mishaps today. I believe God has done and said everything that pertains to life. The onus rest upon us to search and find what God have said concerning whatever circumstance we may encounter.

I also believe the book is spiritual, it is life and it is Christ hence it cannot be exhausted by man.

My take

You are right in this ascertation.

JesusisLord85: "For we know God heareth not sinners"

Whats the meaning of this?

DrummaBoy: When the OP started the discuss by showing that prayer was a mystery, it got my attention bc that's my position on prayers too. But when he tried to "solve" this mystery by suggesting that it our duty to "command God" or to make earth teach heaven what it must do, he lost me.
Indeed prayer is a mystery and we ought to leave it at that. Even the Son of God on earth did not receive all that he requested for: remember Gethsemane and that admonision in Hebrew that Jesus learnt obedience by the things he suffered? Its a wonderful thing when we pray and answer comes; we should be thankful. When we pray and there are no answers, we should trust God. When we pray and there is a delay, we should mix our trust with patience, while not forgetting to remain grateful.
When, however, we turn God to the One we must command, we make him into an idol and not the Sovereign Being that he truly is. When we find scriptures like "command ye me..." in the OT, we must use scripture to interpret scriptures or we run foul of teaching heresies. How many times did we hear Jesus and the apostles command God? Scriptures said Jesus offered up loud cries to the One able to save him. Paul told us how he begged God to save his companions from illness and God showed him mercy. These men were far from commanding God.
Let's limit prayer to the mystery that it truly is and let's not try to explain it away with mans wisdom. Let's draw near Gods throne with confidence, and let's believe him that regardless of his response, Gods desire for is anchored on the infinite love of the divine for the saints brought about by grace through Jesus Christ.

Hi,D.boy.
All prayers in ascension/heavenly realm are prayers of
authority.and such prayer is a command to God. Our
prayer is not begging but
commanding.like i say
in Isaiah 45:11, God says, “Command
ye me.” Sometimes this commanding
is a direct command to God, and
sometimes it is an indirect command
to our environment. Examples are:
Moses standing on the shore of the
Red Sea commanding the water to be
divided, the Lord Jesus in the boat
commanding the wind and the sea to
be still, and the Lord commanding
sickness to leave men. If we have
learned to pray by standing in the
realm of ascension, we can even
command poverty to leave us.
If we have touched the heavenly
position with its authority, one can
even say in prayer,“I command poverty to
depart from me.” This is not our
imagination. Some definitely have had
such an experience.
In the Bible, on the one hand, it says
that we should pray without ceasing,
but on the other hand, it does not
show us that answers to many prayers
will be forthcoming according to what
people expect. Bro, anyone who can pray
conveniently does not know what
prayer is. If we really know the
position and the authority of prayer,
then we shld know that worthwhile
prayer is not that easy.
Of course, God is gracious to us in all
things, and He always listens to our
prayer. I admit this is true. However,
God also shows us that prayer is a
matter of being in ascension/heavenly realm. If we
really wish to have some worthwhile
prayers before God, we need to be
able to give out some authoritative
commands before God.if our position is wrong
and our condition is not in the
heavenly realm, such prayer would be
an insult to God. But if our position
is right and our state is in the
heavenly sphere, then such prayer
would be a real pleasure to Him. The
words we pray are equal to God’s
administration; they are equivalent to
executing His commands. I can testify
that God answers such prayers.
It is not that when one goes out to
the street and points with a stick the
cars will stop; rather, it is when the
traffic policeman points with his stick
that everyone will stop, for he has the
POSITION and the AUTHORITY. The most
simple and easy prayers are these
kind of commanding prayers,
authoritative prayers. But in order to
have such prayers, we need to
acquire a position of ascension. What
is a prayer of authority? It is a prayer
by one who is able to give out
commands by standing in the position
of ascension.
Because our spiritual condition today
is too low, very few among the
children of God know, and fewer
actually practice this kind of prayer.
But if we go on properly in the Lord,
we will realize that we are in the Holy
Place, not the outer court. We will also
realize that we are in the realm of
ascension and cannot be touched by
numerous things. We are together
with the Lord in the realm of
ascension and on the throne.
Therefore, we are able to give orders
and command everything according
to the Lord’s will. Whatever we pray
from such a position is an order, a
command.
When we come to the point where
we have the heavenly position and
the heavenly authority, and are thus
able to utter forth authoritative
prayers, we are in union with He who is on the
throne, standing in the ruling position
together with the Lord. Just as He
reigns at the right hand of God, so
we also reign together with Him in
the heavenly realm. At this time, our
prayer is not only an authoritative
prayer but also a reigning prayer.
our prayer is to rule with authority,
executing God’s orders. So at this
time, all our prayers become God’s
administration, the execution of God’s
rule. If we are willing to learn,
we will arrive at a place where we can
utter such prayers.
In summary, there is only one
position for prayer—the heavenly
sphere. Once we leave this sphere
we lose the position of prayer. Prayer
is not only concerned with certain
matters; but, much more, it is
concerned with a certain position. we
need to be in the heavenly sphere.
Then we have the position to pray with authority, sitting on the throne and
uttering forth prayers of the throne.

shdemidemi: Hello bro,
I have gone through all you said, I wouldn't go by the way of pinpointing parts i do not agree with but I will state reasons why we should view the issue from a different perspective.
I believe Prayer is important, it should be enjoyed between man and His creator. I see prayer as a time to open ourselves up fully to God as to release those things that seem heavy on our hearts. It should be as though we are dealing and relating with our spouse, I am sure we do more things together than just asking in our relationships.
We must understand prayer isn't just asking but asking is a part of prayer. as much as the bible does not limit what we can ask, we must accept the painful truth that asking does not necessarily mean we will get. God did countless things without been asked in the bible, even the dead who cannot ask also received life.
The bible assures us that God hears everything we say to Him, He also responds immediately. His answer is the best we can ever get or hope to get, but looking from man's view point, God's answer comes as a YES, NO, or NOT YET. As far as our soul life is concerned, the three answers in whichever way they come is perfect. But, we have our flesh, it craves comfort and pleasure, it gets displeased and disappointed when the answer comes as a NO or a WAIT.
If we compare what we have today in the church age relationship with God to that which they had in the old testament, we will realise the major difference. In the Old Testament days God dealt more directly than He does today. God doesn't have to talk to us audibly today. God doesn't have to appear to us miraculously either. In this present age of Grace, God is comparatively silent because we have the BOOK.

Hey Bro,
I quite agree with most of the you wrote.but i hve my réservation mostly on yur last post which says: In this
present age of Grace, God is
comparatively silent because we
have the BOOK.
how cn He b silent in anyway in our lifes.because of a book? Hw cn He b,whn He nolonger dwells in a far distance heaven alone bt also in our hearts.He is relatively more silent in the OT than now.
Secondly,though dead pple cnt talk,there love ones cn interceed for them as in the case of Lazarus.

My bro..,all our prayers has to be According to God’s Will.
(1 John 5.14)says
And this is the boldness which we have toward him,
that, if we ask anything according to His WILL, he hears
us.

Also, In the third year of Cyrus King of Persia, a thing was revealed
unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was
true, even a great warfare: and he understood the thing, and had
understanding of the vision. In those days I, Daniel, was mourning
three whole weeks. I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor
wine into my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three
whole weeks were fulfilled . . . Then said he unto me, Fear not,
Daniel; for from the first day that thou didst set thy heart to
understand, and to humble thyself before thy God, thy words were
heard: and I am come for thy words’ sake. But the prince of the
kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days . . . Then said
he, Knowest thou wherefore I am come unto thee? and now will I
return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I go forth, lo, the
prince of Greece shall come. But I will tell thee that which is
inscribed in the writing of truth . . . (Dan. 10.1-21)

As we read Daniel chapter 10 which tells us of how Daniel
prayed, we should notice at least two points.
Point One.
The first point to be noticed is that one who really prays is a
person who not only often approaches God but also whose will
frequently enters into God’s will—that is to say, his thought often
enters into God’s thought. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE IN PRAYER.
But,there is a kind of prayer which originates entirely from our
need.Though at times the Lord hears such prayers, He nonetheless
gets little or nothing out of them. Please take note of this verse: “He
gave them their request, but sent leaness into their soul” (Ps. 106.15).
What does this passage mean? As Israel cried to God for the
gratification of their lust, He did answer them by indeed giving them
what they asked for—but with the result, however, of their being
weakened before Him.sometimes God will hear and respond
to your prayers for the sake of satisfying your own needs, yet His
own will is not fulfilled. Let us see that such prayer does not have
much value in it.
But there is another kind of prayer, which comes out of God’s
own need. It is of God, and it is initiated by God. And such prayer is
most valuable. In order to have such prayer, the one who prays must
not only personally often appear before God but also he must allow
his will to enter into God’s will, his thought must be allowed to enter
into God’s thought. Since he habitually lives in the Lord’s presence,
such a person is given to know His will and thoughts. And these
divine wills and thoughts quite naturally become his own desires,
which he then expresses in prayer.
WE MUST LEARN THIS SECOND KIND OF PRAYER. Although most of us
are immature and weak, we may nevertheless approach God and let
His Spirit bring our will into God’s will and our thought into God’s
thought. As we touch a little of His will and thought we come to
understand a little more of how He works and what He requires of
us.SO THAT GRADUALLY THE WILL and THOUGHT OF GOD WHICH WE KNOWN and ENTERED INTO BECOMES IN US OUR PRAYER. And such prayer is
of great value.
Having entered into God’s thought and thus having touched His
will and purpose, Daniel found in his own heart the same desire as
God’s. The longing of God was reproduced in Daniel and became Pray According to God’s Will.
Daniel’s desire. So that when he expressed this desire in prayer with
cries and groanings, he was actually articulating God’s desire.My brother thats the kind of prayer a believer needs.
for it really touches the DIVINE heart.
We do not need more words; what we need is a touching more of the
Lord’s mind.Hence,the H/Spirit of God in us mingled/interwoven with our spirit making Gods Will AND Thought ours. By this, our will enters into His will and our thought enters
into His heart. And from there our prayer will rise to Him.
As we bring our will and thought to God His own will and
thought begin to be reproduced in us, and then this becomes our will
and thought.THIS KIND OF PRAYER is MOST VALUABLE and FULL of WEIGHT. Suppose the Lord is
grieved and mournful over the death of men. We too will develop
such a burden of not willing to see even one soul perish. And such is
a reproduction of God’s heart which enables us to pray with inward
sighings. with
the result that we will have the same yearning of not willing to see a
child of God fall into sin and darkness. Then prayer and intercession
will issue forth from within us. There we will confess, plead for
forgiveness, and ask God to purify His children.My bro..
God has many things to do on earth, touching many areas. How,
then, can we ever pray according to our own feeling and thought?
Daniel came and Prayed According to God’s Will.
he touched a certain matter; and then we saw that he prayed out
that thing with deep groanings.bringing God’s
kingdom, and cause God’s will to prevail on earth as in heaven.

Point Two.
The second point to be noticed is, that when we pray with such
prayer, our prayer will shake up hell and affect Satan. For this
reason, Satan will rise up to hinder such prayer. All prayers which
come from God touch the powers of darkness. Here involves spiritual
warfare. Perhaps our physical bodies, our families, or whatever
pertains to us will be attacked by Satan. For whenever there is such
prayer, it calls forth Satanic assault. The enemy so attacks in order
that our prayer might be discontinued. He may even try to throw up
some blockage in the air so as to delay the answer to prayer. That
prayer ought to receive a response quickly; however, the answer
seems to be suspended in the air. In just such fashion as this, the
answer to Daniel’s prayer was hindered for twenty-one days although
God actually heard him the day he began to pray. In such a situation,
what did Daniel do? He knelt before God and he waited until the
answer to prayer arrived.
Let me ask this question: Do we ever wonder why our prayers
remains unanswered? Perhaps it is suspended somewhere, still within
the period of twenty one days! The answer of the throne may
possibly have been given, yet it encounters opposition and,
consequently, is suspended in air. Why? IT AWAITS MORE PRAYERS on EARTH/IT NEEDS PEOPLE WHO PATIENTLY and HUMBLY WAIT UPON GOD.
Nothing of the will of God is ever released without passing
through man, and nothing of whatever will of God released through
man is ever free from an encounter with the power of Satan. For the
realization of God’s will, there is the need for prayer; to remove
Satan’s opposition requires prayer. Let us exercise the authority of
prayer in loosing whatever must be loosed and binding whatever
should be bound. Let us not pray after our own will. Let us draw near
to God and pray according to the will which He has reproduced in us.
When God says that this must be done we also say it must be done.
When He says this must not exist, we too say it must not exist. We
ought to forget ourselves, touch God’s will, and express His current
will through prayer.
answers to ur ??.
1a.What then happens to those who have been asking, knocking, begging yet their request isn't met?
Two things,1.either they are not asking according to GODS Will and Purpose in there life/2.there prayers are been suspended by the devil.
1b.sometimes some dread praying cos it seem the more they pray the more they don't seem to get but things still tend to fall in place only when they put their trust in God?
We should always pray when been lead by the H/Spirit,in so doing its needless stressing ourselves,whenever His WIll becomes our will concerning an issue then we pray.but if theres no burden from within to pray,we should wait.
2.do we really know how to pray or ask or request from God in prayer?
Most of us dont know.like i said earler we should LEARN HOW TO PRAY ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE/WILL IN OUR LIFE.
3.Do we really understand the full essence of God's will concerning our day to day options, choices and decisions?
Am afraid we dont.because most times we are pre occupied with our personal needs{work,family and environment} Primarily, and GOD takes the secondly aspect of our lifes.the reverse should be the case.

Matthew 6:33New King James Version (NKJV) But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

shdemidemi: What then happens to those who have been asking, knocking, begging yet their request isn't met? sometimes some dread praying cos it seem the more they pray the more they don't seem to get but things still tend to fall in place only when they put their trust in God.
2nd question-
do we really know how to pray or ask or request from God in prayer?
3rd question-
Do we really understand the full essence of God's will concerning our day to day options, choices and decisions?

My brother all questions are related and inter woven will get back to you when am less busy.

Prayer is the most wonderful action
in the spiritual realm; it is also the
most mysterious matter.
Prayer is a mystery. After we present
a few questions concerning prayer,
we will see how mysterious prayer is.
These questions are hard to answer.
But this does not mean that the
mystery of prayer is unknowable or
that the questions concerning prayers
are unanswerable. It merely means
that those who have the answers are
few. For this very reason, there are
few who can accomplish works for
God in prayer. It is not a matter of
how much we pray, but a matter of
how much we have prayed according
to the principle of prayer. Only those
prayers that are prayed according to
the principle of prayer are
worthwhile.
The first question we will ask is: why
should we pray? What is the use of
praying? God is omniscient and
omnipotent. Why would He work only
after we pray? Since He knows
everything, why do we have to tell
Him anything (Phil. 4:6)? Since He is
almighty, why would He not do it by
Himself? Why does He need us to
pray? Why is it that only those who
pray receive, and those who seek
find, and those who knock enter
(Matt. 7:7)? Why does God say, "You
do not have because you do not
ask" (James 4:2)?
After asking the above questions, we
also want to ask: is prayer contrary to
the will of God? What is the
relationship between prayer and
justice?
We know that God does not do
anything that is contrary to His will. If
it is His will to open the door, why
does He have to wait until we knock
before He will open? Why would He
not open the door for us according
to His will, without us knocking? He
knows everything. If He knows that
we need an open door, why will He
wait until we knock before He opens?
If the door should be open, if it is
God's will that there is the open
door, and if God knows that we need
to have the door open, why does He
not just open the door? Why do we
have to knock? What convenience
does it give to God for us to knock on
the door?
We also have to ask: Since God's will
is to open the door, and since it is
His will to have the door open, will
God not open the door if we do not
knock? Will He allow His will and His
justice to be delayed and not
accomplished just for the sake of
waiting for our prayer? Will He allow
His will of opening the door to be
limited by our not knocking on the
door?
If this is so, then God's will is
restricted by us! Is God really
omnipotent? If He is, why can He not
open the door independent of us?
Why must He wait for us to knock
before He will open the door? Will
God really accomplish His will? If He
will, why does the opening of the
door (His will) have to be controlled
by our knocking on the door (prayer)
?
After we have asked these questions,
we will see that prayer is indeed a
great mystery. Here we can see a
principle of God's work. This principle
is that God's people have to pray
before God will rise up to work.
God's will is accomplished by the
prayer of those who belong to Him.
The believers' prayers accomplish
God's will. God will not accomplish
His will alone; He will only accomplish
His will when His people are
sympathetic with Him in prayer.
If this is the case, prayer is nothing
but the believers' act of working
together with God. Prayer is the
union of the believers' will with God's
will. The prayer of the believers on
earth is an utterance of God's will in
heaven. Prayer is not an utterance of
our own wishes, a plea for God to
yield to our cry and fulfill our own
wishes. Prayer is not to compel God
to change His will by force or ask Him
to do what He does not want to do.
Prayer is the believers' utterance of
God's will out of their own mouth; it
is the believers' request before God
that He accomplish His own will.
Prayer does not change what God
has ordained. Prayer never changes
anything. Prayer only accomplishes
what God has ordained. On the
contrary, the lack of prayer and the
absence of prayer changes things.
When God's people do not work
together with God, He will allow many
of the things ordained by Him to be
delayed and not be fulfilled.
"Truly I say to you, Whatever you bind
on the earth shall have been bound
in heaven, and whatever you loose
on the earth shall have been loosed
in heaven" (Matt. 18:18). These two
sentences are very familiar to us. But
they refer to prayer. This is why
following this, it says, "Again, truly I
say to you that if two of you are in
harmony on earth concerning any
matter for which they ask, it will be
done for them from My Father who is
in the heavens" (v. 19).
This passage explains clearly the
relationship between prayer and
God's work. God in heaven will only
bind and loose what His children on
earth have bound and loosed. Many
things that God should bind, He will
not bind alone; instead He wants His
people to bind them on earth first,
and then He binds them in heaven.
Many things that should be loosed,
God will not loose them alone;
instead He has to wait for His people
to loose them on earth before He will
loose the same for them in heaven.
Every action in heaven is directed on
the earth! All the moves in heaven
are restricted on the earth! God is
willing and happy to let all of His
works be managed by His people. (I
am not saying such words to fleshly
persons, for they are not qualified to
hear such words. We should listen
carefully, lest the flesh comes in, and
we offend God even more.) In Isaiah
there is one passage which says the
same thing as it says here: "Thus says
Jehovah, / The Holy One of Israel and
the One who formed him, / Ask Me
about the things to come... / And
concerning the work of My hands,
command Me" (45:11). When we read
this, we should be fearful and not
allow the flesh to come in. God wants
us—the humble human beings—to
command Him! His work is carried
out through our commanding.
Whether it be binding or loosing, all
of God's work in heaven is carried
out according to our command on
earth.

Great work Guy's,bring it on!!

(REVELATION 2:12-17)
The church in Pergamos signifies the
condition of the church from the
fourth century to the seventh century.
The greatest persecution from the
world could not annihilate the church;
therefore, Satan changed his scheme
of attack on the church. Here the
world no longer opposed the church,
instead, the greatest empire of the
world, the Roman Empire, accepted
Christianity as its state religion.
A. Revelation 2:12
"And to the messenger of the church
in Pergamos write: These things says
He who has the sharp two-edged
sword."
According to the original language,
the word "Pergamos" has two
meanings: (1) united in marriage,
which refers to the relationship
between the church and the world;
and (2) high tower, which refers to the
position of the church in the world.
"These things says He who has the
sharp two-edged sword." The sharp
sword has two functions: one is to
sever the union between the church
and the world, and the other is to
judge the church which is united to
the world.
B. Revelation 2:13
"I know where you dwell, where
Satan's throne is; and you hold fast
My name and have not denied My
faith, even in the days of Antipas, My
witness, My faithful one, who was
killed among you, where Satan
dwells."
"I know where you dwell." The church
sojourns in this world; she has the
nature of a sojourner, just as our Lord
was a sojourner on earth. How pitiful
it is that the church has now lost her
sojourning nature. Instead, she has
taken up a dwelling place on this
earth and has gained a position here.
This is the decline of the church into
worldliness. Moreover, her dwelling
place in Pergamos is a high tower; it
has the greatest position, authority,
and glory. Outwardly speaking, the
church has greatly expanded,
possessing position, power, and glory,
but in reality, the church is now
corrupted and defeated. The
responsibility of the church in the
world should be to fight against the
enemy, but she now has a dwelling
place which has been occupied by the
throne of Satan. How pitiful it is that
Satan has a position in the church!
"Even in the days of Antipas, My
witness, My faithful one, who was
killed among you, where Satan
dwells." In these seven epistles, no
other believer's name is mentioned
except that of Antipas. From this we
can see that Antipas is very important.
Why was Antipas killed? Because he
held fast the Lord's name and refused
to forsake the Lord's word. He was
killed because he was faithful to the
testimony. "And you hold fast My
name and have not denied My faith."
While Antipas was alive he faithfully
stood alone, yet this caused the entire
Body to stand up also. But after he
was killed, the entire Body was
shaken.
C. Revelation 2:14
"But I have a few things against you,
that you have some there who hold
the teaching of Balaam, who taught
Balak to put a stumbling block before
the sons of Israel, to eat idol sacrifices
and to commit fornication."
Balaam was a prophet who was
greedy for wealth. Today there are
many people who come out to preach
for the sake of money. Balaam's
teaching was intended to cause the
Israelites to unite with the Gentiles.
Today there are also many people
who advocate a union with the world.
Balaam was hired by Balak, and in the
same way, ever since Constantine
joined Christianity, many have been
"hired" by rulers. The consequences
of Balaam's teaching were: (1) "to eat
idol sacrifices," that is, to mingle with
other religions; and (2) "to commit
fornication," that is, to make friends
with the world.
D. Revelation 2:15
"In the same way you also have some
who hold in like manner the teaching
of the Nicolaitans."
This period signifies the age when the
entire Roman Empire adopted
Christianity. Since most of the people
did not understand the truths in
Christianity, a few had to take over the
spiritual affairs. Hierarchy became
accepted, and as a consequence, this
system also became a kind of
teaching.
E. Revelation 2:16
"Repent therefore; but if not, I am
coming to you quickly, and I will make
war with them with the sword of My
mouth."
The sword here, as in verse 12, is the
Lord's word, which is for cutting off
our relationship with the world. If we
hear the Lord's word but do not
repent and break off from the world,
this word will be the sword that
judges us.
F. Revelation 2:17
"He who has an ear, let him hear
what the Spirit says to the churches.
To him who overcomes, to him I will
give of the hidden manna, and to him
I will give a white stone, and upon the
stone a new name written, which no
one knows except he who receives it."
Here are two promises given to the
overcomers:
(1)"To him I will give of the hidden
manna." Manna typifies Christ (John
6:49-51). The open manna was
possessed by all the Israelites, but the
hidden manna was kept for Canaan
(Exo. 16:33). All believers receive the
salvation of Christ, but only the
overcomers enjoy the hidden portion
of Christ, a portion which the
common people cannot enjoy.
(2)"To him I will give a white stone." At
the apostles' time, elections were
carried out by placing pieces of white
stone into a jar with names written on
them. Although the overcomers lose
the opportunity to be elected in the
world, the Lord will give them a white
stone on which a new name is
written, a name not known by others.
This shows the Lord's approval of us.

Revelation 2:9
"I know your tribulation and poverty
(but you are rich) and the slander
from those who call themselves Jews
and are not, but are a synagogue of
Satan."
1. "I Know"
(a) The Lord knows all of our
sufferings! Therefore, our hearts
should be content.
(b) Since the Lord knows our
sufferings yet still does not remove
them, such sufferings must be
profitable to us.
(c) Since the Lord knows our
sufferings, He must also know how to
reward us in the future.
2. Their Sufferings
The sufferings of the church in
Smyrna at that time were of three
kinds: (1) tribulation, (2) poverty, and
(3) slanderings.
a. Tribulation
What is tribulation? Tribulation is an
outward persecution from the
environment, such as opposition,
attack, exile, oppression, beating,
robbing, and so forth.
b. Poverty
If the monetary supply during
tribulation is sufficient, you do not
feel the suffering that much because,
relatively speaking, being rich makes it
easier for you to get by. But if you are
in poverty in the midst of tribulation,
the situation becomes even more
hopeless. Although this was the
situation, the Lord added a most
precious word: "But you are rich." At
that time the faith of the church in
Smyrna was rich (James 2:5) and her
love was full (1 Thes. 1:3). Otherwise,
who would not fall when placed
under such circumstances?
The church in Smyrna and the church
in Laodicea stand in stark contrast to
each other (Rev. 3:17); it is impossible
for a person to be in Smyrna, before
the Lord, yet at the same time be in
Laodicea, before the world.
c. Slanderings
Slander damages our reputation.
Some can endure physical sufferings
under tribulation and poverty, yet few
can tolerate damage to their
reputation.
"The slander from those who call
themselves Jews." Slandering began
with the Jews. When our Lord was on
the earth, He was slandered by them;
much more, should not we also be
slandered?
What was their actual word of
slander? It was slander against the
truth of salvation (Acts 13:45; 18:6;
19:9; 28:22; Rom. 3:, yet the Lord
said that we are blessed if we are
reviled (Matt. 5:11).
There is one more point to be noted
—that is, concerning "those who call
themselves Jews and are not, but are
a synagogue of Satan." Who actually
were these people? Before we talk
about this group of people, we
should first find out who the real Jews
are. From Romans 2:28-29, John
8:39-47, and Romans 4:11-12, we
understand that whoever sincerely
believes in the Lord Jesus is a real
Jew. Since these ones were not Jews
but called themselves such, they must
surely refer to a group of Jews in the
flesh and a group of Judaistic
followers.
These people had an organization,
and one might say that they were the
Judaistic church. Their teachings were
also Judaistic, being half of the law
and half of grace, half of faith and half
of works. Their system followed the
law; they had a priestly order. There
were a great number of these people,
even at Paul's time. However, by the
time of this writing, they had become
more developed and more organized.
They "are a synagogue of Satan."
These people were used by Satan to
preach a seemingly true, but actually
false, gospel.........

You believe in the death of the Lord
Jesus and you believe in the death of
the thieves with Him. Now what about
your own death? Your crucifixion is
more intimate than theirs. They were
crucified at the same time as the Lord
but on different crosses, whereas you
were crucified on the selfsame cross
as He, for you were in Him when He
died. How can you know? You can
know for the one sufficient reason
that God said so. It does not depend
on your feelings. If you feel that Christ
has died, He has died; and if you do
not feel that He has died, He had
died. If you feel that you have died,
you have died; and if you do not feel
that you have died, you have
nevertheless just as surely died. These
are divine facts. That Christ has died is
a fact, that the two thieves have died
is a fact, and that you have died is a
fact also. Let me tell you, You have
died! You are done with! You are
ruled out! The self you loathe is on
the Cross of Christ. And "he that is
dead is freed from sin" (Romans 6:7
Amplified). This is the Gospel for
Christians.
Our crucifixion can never be made
effective by will or by effort, but only
by accepting what the Lord Jesus did
on the Cross. Our eyes must be
opened to see the finished work of
Calvary. Some of you, prior to your
salvation, may have tried to save
yourselves. You read the Bible,
prayed, went to church, gave alms.
Then one day your eyes were opened
and you saw that a full salvation had
already been provided for you on the
Cross. You just accepted that and
thanked God, and peace and joy
flowed into your heart. And now the
good news is that sanctification is
made possible for you on exactly the
same basis as that initial salvation.
You are offered deliverance from sin
as no less a gift of God's grace than
was the forgiveness of sins.
For God's way of deliverance is
altogether different from man's way.
Man's way is to try to suppress sin by
seeking to overcome it; God's way is
to remove the sinner. Many Christians
mourn over their weakness, thinking
that if only they were stronger all
would be well. . . If we are
preoccupied with the power of sin
and with our inability to meet it, then
we naturally conclude that to gain the
victory over sin we must have more
power. . .
But this is altogether a fallacy; it is not
Christianity. God's means of delivering
us from sin is not by making us
stronger and stronger, but by making
us weaker and weaker. That is surely
rather a peculiar way of victory, you
say; but it is the divine way. God sets
us free from the dominion of sin, not
by strengthening our old man but by
crucifying him; not by helping him to
do anything, but by removing him
from the scene of action.
For years, maybe, you have tried
fruitlessly to exercise control over
yourself, and perhaps this is still your
experience; but when once you see
the truth you will recognize that you
are indeed powerless to do anything,
but that in setting you aside altogether
God has done it all. Such discovery
brings human striving and self-effort
to an end

Abel
could offer a sacrifice; so could Noah.
In the beginning the people of Israel
could all offer sacrifices; but later,
because of the incident of the golden
calf, they could not offer sacrifices
themselves. God says that every
believer can come directly to God. But
now there are the mediatorial people
in the church. Today there are
Nicolaitans in the church; therefore,
Christianity has become Judaism.
The Lord is pleased with those who
reject the mediatorial class. If you
have been washed by the blood, you
have a direct share in spiritual affairs.
The church can only be founded on
this ground; otherwise, it is Judaism.
Therefore, we are not just fighting the
matter of sects, but we are fighting for
the privilege of the blood. Today there
are three main categories of churches
in the world: one is the world church,
that is, the Roman Catholic Church;
one is the state church, such as the
Anglican Church and the Lutheran
Church; and one is the independent
church, such as the Methodist
Church, the Presbyterian Church, etc.
In the Roman Catholic Church there is
the (Catholic) priestly system, in the
Anglican Church there is the clerical
system, and in the independent
churches there is the pastoral system.
All we see is a mediatorial class which
undertakes spiritual affairs. But the
church God wants to establish is one
in which He can place the whole
gospel without the mediatorial class. If
there is anything present that does
not conform to the whole gospel,
then that is not the church.
"He who has an ear, let him hear
what the Spirit says to the
churches'' (Rev. 2:7a). The Lord
speaks in this same way to all the
seven churches, showing that not only
the church at Ephesus should hear,
but all the churches must hear.
"To him who overcomes, to him I will
give to eat of the tree of life, which is
in the Paradise of God'' (v. 7b). God's
original intention for man was that he
eat of the fruit of the tree of life. Now
God says that we can come directly to
Him and do according to His original
intention. The question is not what
the tree of life is; rather, the question
is whether we are willing to follow
God's initial intention to eat of the
fruit of the tree of life in the garden of
God. Only the overcomers can eat.
Whoever returns to the original
intention and demand of God is an
overcomer.

In the New Testament there is a
fundamental principle: All of the
children of God are priests of God. In
Exodus 19:5-6 God called unto the
people of Israel, saying, "Now
therefore, if ye will obey my voice
indeed, and keep my covenant, then
ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto
me above all people: for all the earth
is mine: and ye shall be unto me a
kingdom of priests, and a holy
nation.'' God ordained in the
beginning that the whole nation be
priests, but the incident of
worshipping the golden calf occurred
not long after. Moses broke the tables
of law and said, "Who is on the Lord's
side? let him come unto me....And slay
every man his brother'' (32:26-27). At
that time the Levites came to stand on
the Lord's side, and as a result, three
thousand Israelites were slain on that
day (v. 28). Henceforth, only the
Levites could be priests; the kingdom
of priests became a tribe of priests.
The rest of the people of Israel could
not be priests, and they had to
depend on the Levites to be the
priests on their behalf. The priestly
class in the Old Testament was a
mediatorial class. However, in the New
Testament, Peter said, "But you are a
chosen race, a royal priesthood, a
holy nation, a people acquired for a
possession'' (1 Pet. 2:9). We, the
whole church, are priests; this goes
back to the condition in the beginning.
Revelation 1:5-6 says that as many as
are washed in the blood are priests.
The priests are in charge of God's
business; every believer is in charge of
God's business. There should not be
a mediatorial class in the church. The
church has only one High Priest, the
Lord Jesus.
Before a change took place in the
church, all the believers took care of
the Lord's business. But after the
apostles, this condition began to
change; men began to lose interest in
the matter of serving the Lord. When
the Roman Catholic Church began (in
the time of Pergamos), there were few
who were saved but many who were
baptized; thus, unbelievers filled the
church. Then there appeared a group
of "clergy.'' Since there were members
who were not spiritual, what could
they do? Asking them to put down the
account books and pick up the Bible
to preach would not be fitting. So a
group of people was sought out to
take special care of spiritual affairs
while the rest did secular work. Thus,
the "clergy'' was produced contrary to
God's desire. God desires that all who
do secular work should also take care
of spiritual affairs.
In the Roman Catholic Church, the
dispensing of the bread, the laying on
of hands, baptizing, etc., are all
performed by the Catholic priests;
even weddings and funerals must be
undertaken by the "clergy.'' In the
Protestant church there are pastors.
For illness, call the doctor; for
lawsuits, call the lawyer; for spiritual
affairs, call the pastor. What about us?
We can devote ourselves to secular
work without distraction. But please
remember, in Taoism the Taoist
priests chant the liturgy for people; in
Judaism the priests manage the things
of God for men. However, in the
church, there should not be any
mediatorial class, because we
ourselves are all priests.

Scripture Reading: Rev. 2:1-7
The church in Ephesus is prophetic
concerning the condition of the first
stage of the church after the apostles.
The apostolic age was prior to A.D. 96.
After A.D. 96 the apostolic age
apparently was over, and many wrong
things began to creep in. Since
Revelation is a book of prophecy, the
names in the book are also prophetic.
Ephesus in Greek means "desirable.''
The church which continued after the
apostolic church was still desirable.
"I know your works and your labor
and your endurance'' (Rev. 2:2a). The
pronoun your in Revelation 2 and 3 is
singular in number. Among the seven
churches, five are rebuked, one
receives no rebuke and no praise, and
only one is praised. Ephesus is one
among those which are rebuked. But
the Lord first tells the messenger of
Ephesus about the spiritual reality.
Some think the Lord attempts to say
something good before He rebukes
so that the one being rebuked will not
feel so bad, as if the Lord is being
diplomatic. But this is not so with the
Lord. Rather, the Lord points out the
spiritual reality in the church. There is
something called the spiritual reality
which exists regardless of the outward
condition. Although the Israelites
were worthless in the sight of men,
God said through Balaam that He did
not behold iniquity in Jacob (Num.
23:21). It is not that God does not
look; rather, He looks but sees
nothing wrong. It is not that the eyes
of God can see better than ours, but
that God sees the spiritual reality.
It is not difficult for us to see that the
condition of the church today is
desolate. Sometimes we think a
certain brother or sister is just as
desolate. But if the children of God
are enlightened by the Lord, they will
see that their many weaknesses and
failures are lies. If the spiritual reality
is true, then these are all lies.
Consider a little child who runs out to
the street and returns covered with
mud. Although he is filthy when he
enters the house, I say that he is clean
and beautiful. It is true that his body
is covered with dirt, but the dirt does
not grow out of him. Once he is
washed, he will be clean again. Each
child of God must see that even
before he is washed, he is good. The
dirtiness is a lie; his reality is good.
Today the church does not look as
glorious as God says, but today the
church is glorious. If you have
spiritual insight, though the church is
not washed, you can still see that she
is good. For this reason you can also
thank God continually for the church.
Today the church is glorious, not
having spot or wrinkle or any such
things (Eph. 5:25-27). No spot means
sinless, and no wrinkle means not
aged, always maintaining her
freshness before the Lord. God says
the church in Ephesus is good; it is
her spiritual reality that is good.
"And you have tried those who call
themselves apostles and are not, and
have found them to be false'' (Rev.
2:2b). The Lord says something about
trying the apostles, which proves that
after the apostolic age there are still
apostles in the church. If there were
only twelve apostles, then all they
would have to ask is whether or not
the professed apostle was John. If he
was not John, then he would not be
an apostle, because by that time all
the other eleven apostles had passed
away and only John was left. The
necessity for the apostles to be tried
proves that there were still more
apostles after the twelve apostles.
"But I have one thing against you, that
you have left your first love'' (v. 4). The
word "first'' in Greek is proten. It
refers not only to primacy in time but
also in nature. In Luke 15 the father
gave the best robe to the prodigal son
to put on; the word "best'' is also
proten.
"But if not, I am coming to you and
will remove your lampstand out of its
place, unless you repent'' (Rev. 2:5b).
The churches in Revelation 2 and 3
are not only churches in prophecy but
also churches that were actually in
seven localities in Asia. Remarkably,
history tells us that for more than a
thousand years, there has been no
church in Ephesus. The lampstand
has been removed; even her outward
appearance has been removed. Now
there are churches in Corinth, Rome,
and so forth, but none in Ephesus.
Because she did not repent, the
lampstand was removed.
"But this you have, that you hate the
works of the Nicolaitans, which I also
hate'' (v. 6). Nicolaitans cannot be
found in church history. Since
Revelation is a book of prophecy, we
must look into the meaning of the
word. Nicolait in Greek is composed
of two words. Nikao means "conquer''
or "above others.'' Laos means
"common people,'' "secular people,''
or "laity.'' So nicolait means
"conquering the common people,''
"climbing above the laity.'' Nicolaitans,
then, refers to a group of people who
esteem themselves higher than the
common believers. The Lord is above;
the common believers are below. The
Nicolaitans are below the Lord yet
above the common believers. The
Lord hates the behavior of the
Nicolaitans. The conduct of climbing
over and above the common
believers as a mediatorial class is what
the Lord detests; it is something to be
hated. But at that time there was only
the behavior; it had not yet become a
teaching.

Divepen: judge not...
We have both used the word of God as a way of revelation...So all those Bible passages were twisted.
I now understand that you are in deep fear of what the future holds, you are sinkin but the Holyspiriti is around for you. Even if you won't pay tithe what about seed.
Seeds are money spent on God's project...
God will never forget anyone's labour of Love.
Labour of love is also tithe.He is not like we,humans, he will surely bless in multiplicity

Lol,so you are now jumping from tithe to seed sowing.you funny sha.

/Christ in you, the hope of glory.
(Colossians 1:27)/
What does this mean? Not that I come
before God saying, “I have had
pure motives; I have been very
honest, earnest and conscientious,
and
my intentions have all been of the
best.” Let us stop talking
nonsense. It is utter folly to talk like
that. We do not know
ourselves. Only God knows the truth
about us, and none of that finds a
place with Him or counts with Him for
a moment. The point is, have I
recognized that the Cross of the Lord
Jesus was the smashing and
ending of me, good and bad, so that I
am not holding up before the
Lord anything? I am as capable of the
worst as any being in God's
creation is. For anybody to take the
attitude that they are not
capable of the worst is an attitude of
the deepest deception. We do
not know the power in our beings
until we are put to it. If we have
never committed the worst, it is
because we have never been put to it
in the mercy of God, but it is all there.
The Lord puts His finger
upon it in principle when He
says, /“He that hates his brother is a
murderer.”/ It is the same spirit. You
have only to extend that,
provoke that anger enough, put that
nature into certain circumstances,
and you will discover that you are
capable of things of which you
would have stood in utmost horror at
one time.
You and I have got to come down
before God and admit that we are
capable of the worst, not standing on
the ground of our right. The
only right one is Christ from God's
standpoint. The only safe one is
Christ, and therefore the only one who
stands in God's eyes is Christ,
and it is as you and I, in all the
brokenness, frailty, conscious
weakness and humility of our own
beings, by faith cling to Christ that
we shall find the way out, the
deliverance, the salvation. We must
look behind God's words to see
bigger things than words on the
surface
indicate. /“To this man will I look, even
to him that is poor and of
a contrite spirit, and that trembles at
My word.”/ That statement
embodies all that we are saying. To
what one
will He look? To the one
who never says, “I am right!” but to
the one who says, “I may be
as wrong as ever a man or woman
was wrong, there is nothing of which I
am not capable; my only ground is
Christ; so help me God, Christ is my
ground!” To stand on Christ is to stand
always in the consciousness
and recognition that this other
ground, ourselves at any point, is
dangerous ground. /He/ is so Other,
and there is the great divide,
there is no overlapping. Between
Christ and us there is a gaping
chasm. God never sees that bridged,
but thank God He will put Christ
into us by the Holy Spirit, and while
the two will ever remain apart,
the old creation will go one day and
that which is of Christ, as
wrought into us, will abide.

Too long nah haba!

Where are all this guys coming from self.

Beautiful Thread!!