₦airaland Forum

we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection. (Romans 6:5 KJV)
. “Planted together in the likeness of His death.” That is the word of the Apostle, “For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.” The enemy is the instrument so often, of planting us more deeply into the death of Christ. His assaults, his attacks, his accusations, everything – yes. The Lord is not the source of evil, but the Lord allows it. So often our hearts cry out: “Why did the Lord ever allow that in our lives?” That thing which has meant such a deep, dark passage. Why did the Lord allow it? He could have prevented it. Well, we were planted by it into the death of the Lord Jesus. We were brought more than ever to an end of ourselves. Yes, and therefore, to know the Lord in a larger measure than we have ever known Him, and to be brought to a plac e where it will not be so easy for the Devil to shake us next time.

That is the sovereign way of God in deeper death experiences. “Planted together in the likeness of His death.” Have you been planted there initially? Have you been planted in Christ crucified? Or are you one of those attachments to something? Are you planted? And when a deeper planting comes, remember it is the roots being driven downwards, and the issue is going to be most surely endurance, stability, and ability to stand; but, oh, there is going to be greater fruitfulness...

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
The Church is the Bride/Wife of Church.
Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the *FIGURE* of Him(Christ)that was to come.
Adam was a Figure(prototype)of who is was to come,being Christ.
Adams wife(Eve) also typifies the Church in like manner.
Genesis2
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a WOMAN,and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now BONE of my BONES and FLESH of my FLESH: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Since Eve was made with only what came out of Adam,only what is of Christ is called the Church.
Question:what is it that constitute the Church from Christ?
1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening SPIRIT.
Answer:the Church constitute solely of the Spirit(Holy Spirit) of Christ in every believer in the World.
God never mix Adam's rib with dust or any other thing in the making of Eve.
Adam will never accept any mixture with his Rib to be his Wife,that's why he said "this is the Bone of my Bones and the Flesh of my Flesh"
Christ in like manner can not accept any form of mixture with His Spirit to be His Church.
So the Church is the Spirit of God in you,me and every believer in the world.there's no MIXTURE(physical building,doctrines)ALL RELIGIOUS ACTIVITES are OUTSIDE the Church.
The Spirit of Christ in us is the Church simple.

Bump!

God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him. (Colossians 1:19 NIV)

There is going to be a tremendous surprise in these present age over this matter. There is a tremendous amount of energy, and activity, and machinery, and zeal and devotion in the work of the Lord, in the service of the Lord, which seems to be producing something quite big, and carrying on something quite extensive. It is not for us to judge, but it is for us to lay down laws and recognize those laws, or, rather, recognize laws that are laid down by God. When eventually all work, all service, all activity, is weighed in the balances, which will determine what abides forever or passes away forever, all that which was merely human energy for God will GO!all that which was merely man's enterprise for the Lord will GO!all that which was in any way out from man himself, even though in devotion to God, will GO! Only that which was the energy of Christ, the wisdom of Christ, the power of Christ, will REMAIN!God is not using your energies and my energies. He is calling upon us to use the energies of Christ. God cannot set His seal upon anything that is of man. 

God's seal only rests upon that which is of His Son, and we must not say that because a thing is big, extensive, and seems to be a great work for God, that it necessarily is such. What we have got to be quite sure about is that that thing is not being carried on by the momentum of man, or the momentum of organization, the momentum of machinery, the momentum of human zeal and energy for God, nor by the momentum of a program, but that it is being energized by the Holy Ghost, that it is Christ Himself who is the Life and the power of that thing. In so far as human personalities, energies and all that kind of thing are the mainspring, we may be sure that in the end there is going to be a good deal that GOES!. That can be seen as we look back over the history of things which claimed to represent God. The object of saying this is not for one moment to cast a cloud of suspicion or doubt over anything, but it is to emphasize this truth, this basic truth. It is along the line of jealousy for Christ. Nothing will remain in this universe eventually but what is Christ, and we must recognize that everything for God's ultimate purpose is bound up with and in Christ, and it IS Christ....

@OP
Atleast he quoted a verse from the bible ..Matthew6:9-13.
But merely quoting scriptures dnt indicate if one is a Christain or not

Act2:46
New International Version (©2011)
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,
New Living Translation (©2007)
They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord's Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity--

English Standard Version (©2001)
And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart,
The church mets daily,not on Sunday,s Monday's...or Saturday's.

The Father loves the Son and shows Him everything He is doing. (John 5:20 NLT)

Only those who are absolutely one with God can take responsibilities for Him. Whatever we may call ourselves, however great may be our activity for the Lord, God does not take account of that. It is no use coming to Him and saying: “Now Lord, You know that I am engaged in this work, and therefore I want You to help me in this.” That is no reason why He should help us. God stands by His children and only works with them on the basis of an inward relationship. Some person who is not in an ‘official’ position may be far more useful to the Lord than many who have an official ministry and position. What matters is not our spiritual knowledge or official ministry, but our secret relationship with God. God fits us spiritually for His service and upholds our sonship, not our office. He will see to our position if we see to our relationship with Him.

God called Israel His firstborn. He stood by His people on the basis of that sonship. Therefore Israel could take an important and significant position among the nations. It was the chosen vessel of God’s testimony in the earth. But the day came when it ceased to go on with God as His firstborn. Its inward relationship to God became merely an outward form and God had to withdraw from His people and send them into captivity. It would have been useless if Israel had turned to the Lord with this complaint, “Why are You dealing with us in such a way? Are we not Your representatives among the nations?” God’s answer would have been, “The official position is nothing to Me. I cannot help you as long as your relationship to Me is not right, as long as you are not in that which your sonship means and demands.” our position and vocation is in relation to sonship. For that very reason the Lord Jesus put the emphasis upon son ship. He never said that the Father loved the ministry He had come to fulfill on this earth. But He said: “The Father loves the Son.”....

"...That I may know Him..." (Philippians 3:10).
"Have I been so long time with you, and yet thou hast not known Me?" (John 14:9)
"And they shall not teach every man his fellow-citizen, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, from the least to the greatest of them" (Heb. 8:11).
"And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and ye know all things... And as for you, the anointing teacheth you concerning all things, and is true, and is no lie, and even as it taught you, ye abide in him" (1 John 2:20, 27).

It is of the greatest importance for Us to recognise fully that, above all other things, We should know Him. This is the all-governing end of all His dealings with us. This is the greatest of all our needs.

It is the secret of strength, steadfastness, and service. It determines the measure of our usefulness to Him. It was the one passion of the life of the apostle Paul for himself. It was the cause of his unceasing striving for the saints. It is the heart and pivot of the whole letter to the Hebrews. The secret of the life, service, endurance, confidence of the Lord Jesus as Son of Man was the knowledge of the Father.

All these facts need looking at more closely. We begin always with the Lord Jesus as God's representative of the Man after His own mind. In His life on earth there was no part or aspect which did not have its strength and ability rooted in and drawn from His inward knowledge of His Father, God. We must never forget that His was a life of utter dependence upon God, voluntarily accepted. He attributed everything to the Father: word, wisdom, and works. He was God manifest in the flesh; but He had accepted from the human and manward standpoint the limitations and dependence of man so that God might be God manifested. There was a subjection here because of which He was able to do nothing of Himself (John 5:19, etc.). The principle of His entire life in every phase and detail was His knowledge of God. He knew the Father in the matter of the words He spoke, the works He did, the men and women with whom He had to do; with regard to the times of speaking, acting, going, staying, surrendering, and silence; with regard to the motives, pretensions, professions, enquiries, and suggestions, of men and of Satan. He knew when He might not, and when He might, give His life. Yes, everything here is governed by that inward knowledge of God.

There are numerous evidences in the "Acts" as the practical, and in the Epistles as the doctrinal, revelation of God's mind, that this principle is intended by God to be maintained as the basic law of the life of the Lord's people through this age. This knowledge in the case of the Lord Jesus was the secret of His complete ascendancy and of His absolute authority.

Masters in Israel will seek Him out and the issue which will precipitate their seeking will be that of knowing. "Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things?" (John 3:10). Nicodemus has come to One Who knows, and whose authority is superior to that of the scribes, not merely in degree but in kind.

Toward the end of the Gospel of John, which especially brings into view this very matter, the words "to know" occur some fifty-five times. Our Lord makes the statement that "this is life eternal, that they should know Thee the only true God, and Him Whom Thou didst send, even Jesus Christ." (John 17:3). This does not mean merely that eternal life is given on the basis of this knowledge. There can be life with very limited knowledge. But life in fulness is closely related to that knowledge, and the increasing knowledge of Him manifests itself in increasing life. It works both ways; knowledge unto life and life unto knowledge...

Yornandrew: WAYS OF LOSSING YOUR SALVATION

1. A Falling Away-

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:4-6)


The bible talks of these 4 categories of people.
1)Those who were once enlightened,
2)Have tasted the heavenly gift,
3) Become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
4) Have tasted the good Word of God
You cannot be among these 4 categories without being saved.A devoted christian can fall away from the faith and never get right with God before they die. But in this case it speaks of christians that once had a very deep relationship and fellowship with God



2). Sinning Willfully After Receiving the Knowledge of the Truth

“For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (Hebrews 10 v 26-28)

This says "there is no longer remains a sacrifice for sin" This means the door to salvation has been closed. Heb 9 V 22 says "without the shedding of the blood of Christ there is no forgiveness" In order words there is no sacrifice for the sins of that person.



3)Becoming Entangled Again in the Pollutions of the World

“For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning 2 pet 2 v 20

Again, I believe this verse is specifically talking about Christians when it talks about escaping the pollutions of this world “through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” You cannot have true knowledge about Jesus unless you have become saved and born again by accepting Him as your personal Lord and Savior. He becomes worse than the beginning which means he becomes worse than when he was not saved


4)Specific Sins That Could Keep You Out of Heaven

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9)

“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19)

These were paul'S writtens to the churches in Galatians and Corinthians. He was addressing Christians not unbelievers


5) Not Everyone Who Calls Jesus “Lord, Lord” Will Make it Into Heaven

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21)

Only Christians recognise Jesus as Lord and Saviour of their lives not unbeleivers


The gospel of once saved forever saved is not true. The bible excepts us to in Phil 2 v 12 b "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

May God help us not to stray so far from God to the point of no return. May we be stedfast in the things of God. Heb 10.38-39 says "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul"
We are excepted not to draw back or backslide into sin because we may never have opportunity to repent before death. I really speaking to myself, i am not judging anyone. I have a temptation that is eating me up so deep. I feel i need to gain the whole world not minding the enternal state of my soul. I have opportunities to sell out to the devil to make wealth. The devil is closing in on my thoughs everyday. I envy those who are rich and influential, not minding how they got their wealth. I seek pleasure on a daily basis. I must be remain loyal against all odds

Quoting the whole bible won't alter God's Word.Christ said whosoever*BELIEVES* in Him(John3:16).He didn't say whosoever have *KNOWLEDGE* of Him or His *Works*so my brother there's a big difference between Believing and having the Knowledge of Christ.
The whole Children of Israel Knew God through His Miraculous works that brought them out of Egypt,but did they believe in Him? NO.
Thomas KNEW our Lord Jesus Christ deeds but never BELIEVEd in HIM.

John20:25: The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not BELIEVE.
Remember he was with our Lour for 3years and half.
So my brother believing is the key not merely knowledge.

@Bidam
Bro,you should take it easy.no church/ministry is perfect,not that am disputing your claims.
My take is,any church/ministry that don't express Christ in person and inparts Christ as a person to believers is a FRAUD.
Merely prophecies and miraculous works has very little or no effect in the growth/lifes of Christain.
What we(christains) need is FOOD(spiritual) not tales.

Yornandrew: People do you know that one can loose his salvation. This message is for me,I am highly involved. When we refuse to judge ourselves and point another person's fault. Nobody in this life is perfect. We may not commit the Sin against the Holy spirit nor the Sin unto death, nor fornication or adultery, duping fellow brother, embezzle govt money, get involved in occultism, armed robbery, assassination/murder, abortion, witchcraft and idolatory, engage in ritual killing, prostitution, homosexuality and beastiality to gradually be on the part to loosing your salvation. There are little foxes that spoil the vine like excessive and uncontrolled watching of television, watching pornography, masturbation, pride/arrogance, envy, strife, immoral thoughts, hatred, backbitting, drunkeness/smoking, lying, petty stealing, dishonesty, excessive talking, overeating, slandering your neighbour, prayerlessness, no bible study, gradual decrease in church attendance, fear, lack of faith in God, ignoring the those in need like the richman who neglected lazarus. This sins can make one loose or gradually loose his salvation. May God help us

So where is it written that a true Christain can lose his/her Salvation?
Or are you calling God a liar?
Because He said:whosoever believes shall not perish but have Enternal Life.John3:16.
Eternal life is enternal.how can one lose Enternity of Life after it has been given.

...That they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You. (John 17:21)

What, then, is union with Christ? It is union with Him as the new creation, as the new creation Man; union with Him in the Life which is the life of the new creation by the Spirit of Life. What is the meaning of that union? It is that only by such union can God's works be done. What governed Him in relation to the Father governs us. Nothing can be done except on the ground of this union. It is not a matter of action, or of undertaking for God, however well intentioned. What we see as seeming necessary to be done for the Lord's glory is not the criterion of service. Many things are embarked upon by the mere simple, though honest and sincere, judgment of the heart, when confronted by what is judged as something to be done for God, something needing to be done. A tragic situation, for example, calls for action; we have the means to meet that situation, and so we embark upon it for the Lord. A vast variety of undertakings have been embarked upon in that way, fr om that basis, and the Lord Jesus in this chapter says, "No! Not so!" He is not governed by the apparent demand of a situation. He is not governed by the impact of things upon Himself, as calling for an undertaking.

With Him it is a question of what God is doing, and doing just at the particular time. With one object, God does different things at different times, and has a different emphasis from time to time, and those who are really in union with Christ have to be governed by that which Christ at that particular time is Himself undertaking, is giving Himself to: "...what things soever He doeth these the Son also doeth in like manner." It is a matter of what God is doing, and life-union with Him in Christ for the accomplishment of that...

christemmbassey: pls where did u get 2cor17:7, its not in my bible.

Chapter12 not 17

New International Version (©1984)
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
New Living Translation (©2007)
even though I have received such wonderful revelations from God. So to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud.

English Standard Version (©2001)
So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-- to keep me from exalting myself!

christemmbassey: yes, that's the word 'REALITY', Jesus said "I am the way, the truth(reality) and the light....., again Jesus said "and ye shall know the TRUTH (reality) and the truth shall make xou free" jn 8:32(jkv). Now, what is the truth(reality)? For a christian, The truth is what God says and not what i feel, the bible (GOD'S word) says "my body is the temple of the holy ghost", that means, the holy ghost lives in me, i may not feel him, but he is there, and demons cant cohabitate with the holy ghost, that's the truth and another truth is, "as he thinketh, so is he", if u think, u are posses, u are posses, if u think u are sick, you are sick. The bible says "if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship, one with another..,....1jn1:7(kjv) ie, if we walk in the reality of the WORD of God, there is a mingling/koinonia/oneness of God's Spirit with our spirit, then we now have this understanding, we may not see him, but he's there, we may not feel him, but he's there, i cant be afraid, intimidated, sick, possesed, or oppressed, it doesnt matter what i feel, see, smell, hear or taste, because i know, "there is therefor now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT after FLESH but after the spirit"..... Rm8:1(kjv), "be not conform to this world(greek,aion) but be transformed(greek,metamorphoo) by the renewing of your MIND....Rm12:2, its a metamorphosis, be transformed, from that state of being oppressed, suppressed and possesed. James 1:25, says that the mam that will be blessed in his deeds is the man that hears and does not forget, So Face reality, and dont use a 'church goer' or "baby christian" experiences or 'flesh' to judge the truth about ur life as a christian. God bless you.

So you are still saying that a Christain don't fall sick.
While Paul says that the whole creation is Sick,even them(Paul and co.)are also Sick because they have not been fully redeem.
Was the thorn in Pauls flesh,a messenger of Satan not a type of Sickness? And why is it that he prayed trice to be Delivered from.it,since your ascertion is that christains don't fall Sick.(2Cor17:7-,

Whoever comes to Me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in Me shall never thirst. (John 6:35 ESV)

“I am the bread of life” (John 6:35). “I am the light of the world” (John 8:12). “I am the good shepherd” (John 10:14). “I am the true vine” (John 15:1). “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25). Here is the great I AM saying what He is. And then you notice how frequently He links with that a ‘shall’. The ‘shalls’ of the ‘I am's’ in John’s Gospel are tremendously impressive – not always using the exact word, but in the context you will find the same conclusion. But here are some of the ‘shalls’. “I am the bread of life... he that eats this bread shall live for ever” (John 6:58). “I am the light of the world; he that follows Me shall not walk in darkness” (John 8:12). The link between what He is and ourselves is this, “he that believeth on Me.” What I AM shall become true of him. “He that b elieveth on Me shall never die” (John 11:26), “...shall not hunger” (John 6:35), shall never wander like sheep without a shepherd, he shall have a governing, controlling reality like a shepherd in his life. “Shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” What I AM shall become true. “I am the resurrection, and the life; he that believeth on Me, though he die, yet shall he live; and whosoever lives and believes on Me shall never die.” What I AM is made good when you believe.

Now it is not what we are. I am dead; He is alive. I can never be other than dead, but He as the Life can become Life in me in my death, if only I believe. I am hungry, spiritually starved; He is Bread, and I need never hunger; although I shall always hunger in myself, yet He will become the Bread to supply me. Think of it! I need never hunger, I am down there in the country, isolated, getting no fellowship, no food; I am away in some place where there is no spiritual bread, and He says, “He that eats Me shall never hunger.” Is that dependent upon where I am, what my situation and circumstances are as to available spiritual meat? No, it is Himself, not a place; it is Himself, not circumstances. But how can it be? – “He that believes.”

anjoh66: Jesus recieved the baptism of John and that baptism didnt wash away sins, neither was it the purpose, as is clear from Acts 19:1-7




It is quite clear from this that the baptism is necessary

Necessary for what actually?
The baptism of John was merely declaring to the world that one has repented,as long as one has repented baptism or not wnt change that fact.
Likewise when we are been baptized in Christ.
The Water thing is merely a declaration to the world what has already taken place in ones live.

Ubenedictus: and where does d bible say this

Go study Collosian2:11-14.

Ubenedictus: jesus recieved baptism to set an example, and it is not an absolute necessity so d theif could still b safe. This doesnt negate d fact dat d bible says, b baptised 4 d 4givenes of sins and d reception of d H spirit.

Dude
Water baptism is merely a declaration that a Christain is dead to the world and live his/her life to the dictects of the Holy Spirit.
Baptism or no Baptism as long as a Christain has receive Christ as His Lord and Savior,by so doing confesses his/her sins.his sins have been cleanses automatically.
Baptism have no part whatsoever in forgiveness or the cleanses of sin.

@brorehma
Why would God put Adam to test when He already knew that Adam will fall?since you said He put him to test.
Like I said earlier the creation of Adam was very good,but never perfect.Adam was merely a prototype of what God had in full veiw,which is Christ.
Adam was created neutral,but He was never Holy.then how do you expect him(Adam)to uphold/OBEY Gods instructions/command which is holy?
Let's digress abit.
Do you think that God gave the children of Israel His laws/command for them to keep?..NO!
The law/command was give to them in full knowledge that they will break it.so by doing so,they will know how completely useeless they are in pleasing/upholding His Laws/command.so that when the law giver/keeper(Christ)comes He will be fully accepted.
There's no perfection in creation in the beginning,though the whole creation was very good,it was never perfected yet.
Perfection of creation was establish on the Cross of calvary.

@enilove
Please stop saying that God did not KNOW
If He didn't know why is He God.
Why don't you study these verses Isa46:10,Acts2:23,1pet1:2,Rev1:8.

chukwudi44: Pentecostals and their yeye teachings.

St peter makes it clear in acts 2:38 that baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins.All in his first letter 1 pet 3:20-22 he says "baptism is what saves you now"

1 Peter 3:20-22

New International Version (NIV)

20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him

So in essence the baptism of our Lord Jesus Christ @Jordan washes away His Sins abi? Or the thief @the cross came down went to a river and cleanses himself before going back to the cross to die shei?

christemmbassey: yes, Christ came to return man to his original position b4 Adams fall. Pls read Rm 5:12-21, jn 3:16, 1jn5:10-13. Eternal life(ZOE) is the life of God(Gen 2:7) that man(ADAM) lost (Gen 2:16-17)when he disobeyed God(Gen 3 :6, 16-17) so Christ returned us to that prefall era when man ruled, could not be sick, possesed or oppressed by demons, did not pay tithes to be blessed, was not afraid or ashamed, that is why the bible says in Rm 5:17 "the which recieve the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall REIGN IN LIFE". A man who is reigning in life CAN NOT BE POSSES by demons because the Holy spirit (zoe) is living inside him. . God bless.

So in essence a Christain don't fall SICK abi?
You guys should try and be realistic for once

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]So God created an imperfect being (man) just so that he could learn obedience? He purposefully made man disobedient, made man sin and then kicked man out of the garden to learn tough life lessons. Wow, this makes a lot of sense.[/quote]So Adam was perfectly created in the beginning abi?then why did he indulge in disobedience?
After creation in the beginning God Beholds His creation and said it is very GOOD(Gen1:31)but that doesn't mean he has perfected His creation yet.
Adam might be very good doesn't mean His perfect.perfectation of everything only comes thruogh Christ,by the reason of His established works of obedience on the cross of calvary.

[quote author=frank3.16]It really makes no sense for u to sayy that God only learnt what disobedience meant from his creation. I even thought the devil had already disobeyed him abd had been cast away before man disobeyed. Didn't God learn disobedience from there?

So man is suffering and majority will perish in hell forever and ever all because God wanted to learn what disobedience from man. [/quote/]


Obedience not disobedience.
He learnt and established it when He became man.
John11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
So who soever believes in Him even though he dies(from Adam's time till now)shall live.
Because you BELIEVE in Him, His obedience has become your obedience.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]^^^ What I can deduce from your post is that Jesus is the same as Yahweh and He created everything in order to learn obedience from His creation(s). Firstly, this makes no sense and secondly, it doesn't answer the questions the op raised.[/quote]Dude
The title of the tread says:WAS The fall of Man Designed?
Its irrelevant how or by what means he fell.but was he designed to fall in the begining? The answer is Capital YES.
Why? Because 0obedience was not constituted in His being when he was created.

[quote author=christemmbassey][/quote]Lol
Let's assume I really don't know.can you kindly educate me?

Snowwy: @OP, I am yet to see the scripture where Jesus said the exact words 'I am God' but He implied it like when he said:

'...before Abraham was, I AM' John 8:58. Ofcourse you know you who the 'I AM that I AM' is. Exodus 3:14.

It seems He preferred the people to reach that conclusion themselves.
He never wanted to take any glory to Himself while on earth and it is possible that it was because He was in the form of man.

However it was prophesied before (Isaiah 9:6) and other scriptures declare Him as God.

And also read Revelations 1:1-10 and see where Jesus said He is the Almighty, emphasis on verse 8.

(Edited)

Job19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. 26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; 27 I myself will see him with my own eyes--I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!
John 20:28 NIV
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

@OP
There's a popular expression that says:YOU CAN'T GIVE WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE.
As you rightfully stated in your first post,God knew that the created beings(angels and man)will disobey His authority.why?
Because there's nothing like obedience in the council of the GodHead in the beginning,in the begining God doesn't know how to obey,there's non to obey to,that's why He is God.
Inorder to creat a law abiding universe,obedience has to be created and establish in the same universe.
And to creat and establish such task(obedience)MuST be done by the CREATOR HimSelf.through His created being(man)
So man has to be created in the begining
Inorder for His Devine Purpose to be fullfill.
Since it was man that disobeyed His Authority,through man His Authority will be establish.
A day came after the creation that God emptied Himself of His divinity and took the form of a man.not just any man but a servant/slave(Philippines2:6-for Him to be qualify to obey,because obedience was not in Him in the begining He learnt it here on earth(Hebrew5:.He completed His creation with obedience on the cross of calvary(John19:30).after His Resurrection He told Mary not to touch Him,because the work of creation which He has competed has not been establish in Heaven yet(John20:17).
So the whole perception of falling man has to do with Divine sovereignty of God.

In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. (Colossians 2:9,10 NIV)

If we are going to make anything like the progress that Paul made as a young convert and as a growing Christian, and if we are going to have anything of the wheat that he has had in spiritual impress and impact, and if we are going to count in any degree as he counted in the work of the Lord; one thing is absolutely essential and do get hold of this. The youngest Christian get hold of this and everybody else; that if we take our salvation, our conversion or anything that has to do with it as something in itself, there's going to be limitation.

We have got to SEE everything in the light of the Person, Jesus Christ! That is, we have not to take this as a gift – salvation as a gift – or anything else of the Christian life as a gift in itself; we have got to look at that and say: "What does that signify as to the Giver? What does that signify as to Christ? What does that mean as to the Source of my salvation?" You may not grasp the point but it is of infinite importance because all progress in the Christian life and all power in Christian service comes from not the grasping, the apprehending, and the enjoyment of salvation as such, but SEEING Jesus! Because, SEEING, Jesus is the sum total of ALL Divine fullness.

christemmbassey: pls if u want us to have a converstion answer my question, am going somewhere and i dont like diversions. God bless.

Dude which question?

christemmbassey: do you know y Christ came to earth and the results of his work?

Dude
Is your body fully redeemed?
If you say yes then,you are saying that Paul is a big liar.
Are Christains surppose to fall Sick?
why is it that the whole creation is groaning even untill now because of curruption?
even paul and those christains in rome groaneth to be fully redeemed,dude why are they groaning?

Inmy first post,Paul said that the whole creation is SICK and they groan in there Sickness waiting eagerly to be cured/delivered by We(the Sons of God)...Romns8:19-22.but We(christains)here on earth are also SICK and need to be FULLY CURED of our own Sickness..romns8:23.
To Cure or Deliver the whole creation We ourself have to be Fully Cured/Delivered fisrt.
Because creation itself hope lays in us(the manifestation of the Sons of God)..Romn8:19.