₦airaland Forum

For God so *LOVED* the world that He *GAVE*..Jhn3:16.
Any form of GIVING that's not born out of genuine LOVE is a complete waste of time/resources.

Boomark: I wanted to ask him if God himself who was made manifest in flesh is still the same person who is sitting at the right hand of God himself.

Yes,He is...Pslm139:7-12,Jere23:23-24.
Infact He's already at the End from the begining..Ish46:10.

ijawkid: You act like this verse you quoted isn't one of the frauds of trinitarians......eh??.....BIDAM stop spewing rubbish here and spreading heresy...........this verse quoted from never had the word ""GOD"" attached to it before the 3rd/4th century............not until the pagan trinity was formulated was that verse tampered with and here is the result.....persons like BIDAM hold on to false renderings that even fellow trinitarians have discarded and regarded as false............

How this makes sense to you baffles me...

It makes no sense to say God
was justified in the spirit, God was seen by
angels, God was preached among the
Gentiles, God was believed on in the world,
and God was received into glory." One
would have to create a theological
spin to have this make any good sense.........


It was Christ that came in flesh and not GOD....GOD can and has never been seen...stop spreading falsehoods...........and also do your research on this verse.....see how sincere trinitarian translations render that verse,after knowing that the KJV's rendering was a fraud..........


New International Version (©1984)
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness
is great:He appeared in a body, was vindicated
by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was
preached among the nations, was believed on in
the world, was taken up in glory.
----------------------------

New Living Translation (©2007)
Without question, this is the great mystery of
our faith:Christ was revealed in a human body
and vindicated by the Spirit. He was seen by
angels and announced to the nations. He was
believed in throughout the world and taken to
heaven in glory.
_____________________________

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
By common confession, great is the mystery of
godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in
the world, Taken up in glory.

__________________________

Douay-Rheims Bible
And evidently great is the mystery of
godliness, which was manifested in the flesh,
was justified in the spirit, appeared unto
angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles,
is believed in the world, is taken up in glory.

____________________________


It was Christ that came in flesh and not GOD himself..........I can't believe that you still don't know that Yahweh and his son(Jesus) are 2 different persons.................and that one person sent the other and not one person incarnating in another form.......

Take your herectic face outta this place.............

So your Yahweh has a son,was He created/born?
2.you also said they are two different persons,are you insinuating you guys have 2gods?

Bidam: Now back to topic: i am not the originator of this thread and i will not attempt to address the various teachings of the so called "Christian" groups (actually cults) who deny the deity of Jesus Christ. All I know, or anyone knows about God comes from His word the Bible. All the teachings, that teach that Jesus Christ is not God, can be all lumped into one group and labeled "the vain speculations of men." Only God Himself can tell us who He is and He has chosen to reveal this truth about Himself in the Bible. There is no other place to go, but to God Himself. Thus, I will let God speak for himself from the Scriptures.


Lets first look at I Tim. 3:16, " And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. "

1. "Without controversy." This means simply "obviously" or "beyond all question."


2. "The mystery of Godliness is great." This denotes the importance and magnitude of this now revealed mystery or truth.


3. The mystery is "God is manifest in the flesh!" This is as straight forward as can be made on the matter. This verse says that God is manifested in the flesh. The Greek word is "phneroo" meaning, "to make visible."


4. Jesus was "Justified in the Spirit." Note it was not the flesh that justified, but the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ was thus vindicated in the Spirit at His resurrection.


5. Jesus was "Seen of Angels." Angels are spirits, and they saw Christ as spirit.


6. Jesus was "preached among the Gentiles." This denotes the scope of His ministry that He came to save all nations. He was more than the Jewish Messiah, but the Savior of the world.


7. Jesus was "believed on in the world." He being proven to be the Redeemer, He was believed on and accepted as Savior by those who seek after God.


8. Jesus was "Received up into glory." Today Christ is at the right hand of God, making intercession for those who by faith are trusting in Him.


9. This verse is believed to have been a early Christian hymn and could be sung today:


"He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit; was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world; was taken up in glory. "

Great job bro!!

THE WHEAT AND THE TARES
The parable of the wheat and the tares -(MATT.13:24-30).It is the Children of the Kingdom that is sown in the earth not the Word, and then by night the enemy comes and sows his own children, children of his kingdom. They are the children of the Devil. His method is suitable to his object. His object being completely to nullify what is of God, his method is to imitate it. That is a wile of that evil wisdom of Satan - imitation children of God mixed in with the true children of God in order to nullify. The workers are represented as coming to the owner of the field and telling him what they have found there, and he says, 'Ah, an enemy has done this.' And they say, 'What would you have us do? Shall we pluck up this other thing?'
He replies: ”No - let the sovereignty have its way! Let them both grow together, and the sovereignty, the rule of Heaven, will progressively make very clear which is which, and the end will be an easy and a safe course. If you start doing that now, you have not got the wisdom of Heaven to discriminate. It is not your business, and you have not the faculty or capacity, to disentangle this deep work of the Devil, by trying to mark out what is true and what is an imitation. That is not your job, and you are not qualified to do it. Only Heaven can do that. So let it go on, and the sovereign rule will make manifest what is of itself, and what is otherwise.”
It is the sovereign rule that is going to solve and settle this whole problem. We cannot say that the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of God is like that which is pictured in this parable - an awful mixture. It is not. The Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of Heaven, is one thing, and only the sovereign rule of God can bring out into clearness what is of God.
But that will happen as we go on. We can trust the sovereign rule. That is very practical: it works like this. There are those who are truly of God, of Heaven; and then there are those who come in - who perhaps sing the hymns, use the phraseology, carry on the same way, associate with those of the Kingdom; but there is a difference. Deep down, they are really "not of us". They are just IMITATIONS; they are not real, not the genuine thing. We may discern, as these men discerned, that there is something here that is not the same thing, something that is foreign, that is alien and strange. What are we going to do? Had we better turn them out, tell them to go?
No, no! Go on long enough, and they will go of themselves. The two things will be self-manifested, and it will be quite easy in the long run. "They went out from us", said John, "...that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:19). This is a heavenly principle, you see - there is a manifestation. It is difficult to endure patiently those people who you sense have not, as we say, the root of the matter in them - who are just camp-followers. But, as with the mixed multitude that left Egypt with Israel, time and testing will find them out. This is the way if the Kingdom, the sovereignty, operates, and it calls for much faith, and much patience.

BARRISTERS: @Bidam



if "the fullness of God or the FULLNESS OF GOD DWELLS IN THEM IN BODILY FORM" that is christ is 100 percent God in Bodily Form, then why was he 'lower than even the angels' while he is in the body instead of beign higher than the angels, your concept of 'Godhead' seems to be inactive here;

heb 2:9

'we saw jesus who was made lower than the Angels

explain pls

He came to serve..Philphn2:7,though He is very God..Philphn2:6.
His purpose here on earth was to serve,even as the fullness of God dwelleth in Him bodily,He only came as a Servant.

ijawkid: Smh!!!!!!........go and read isaiah my freind and see things for yourself...........long before Jesus was sent,the scriptures ideÑtified him as Gods holy servant.........even Jesus openly acknowledged he is GODs servant when on earth.....then 1 corinthians 15:24-28 which you and bidam have been dodging shows Jesus would remain the subject or subordinate he is forever..........
______________________________

Look at these respective scriptures and then go to sleep....

Isaiah 53:11
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be
satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will
justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
_______________________________
Matthew 12:17 $ 18

17 This was
to fulfill what was spoken
through the prophet Isaiah:
18 “Here is[b]my servant[/b] whom
I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I
delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice
to the nations.
________________________________
Acts 3:13
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and
Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified
his[b]servant[/b] Jesus. You handed him over to be
killed, and you disowned him before Pilate,
though he had decided to let him go
_______________________________

Jesus remains a servant and a subordinate to GOD yesterday,today and forever more..........

That is why GOD calls Jesus my holy servant and Jesus in
turn calls the Father my GOD..........

These are clear truths you have chosen to walk away from............just as
we are and remain slaves of CHRIST §o also CHRIST is and remains a slave(servant) of GOD..........chikena.............

________________________________

And I'm leaving your thread.............bye bye.....

So you don't know the meaning of Prophecy?

ijawkid: Isaiah was reffering to Jesus........what you should be asking is :::......what does Jesus being called eternal Father mean ??..........remember he would be called......Jesus would play a role......find out how he would........it seems you've been running away from the other trinity threads so that you can keep asking this same answered questions.....

LoL
Dude,you are free tou leave the thread

ijawkid: Hmmm......the titles Father and son is just for the GOD head arrangement??.....what rubbish!!!!!............ Je§us remains a son not just because of your aCclaimed GODhead arrangement,but because he is the son of GOD.....a subordinate......a progeny of the almighty........Jesus right from his pre-existence has always been GODs servant......and will be forever......

ijawkid: Hmmm......the titles Father and son is just for the GOD head arrangement??.....what rubbish!!!!!............ Je§us remains a son not just because of your aCclaimed GODhead arrangement,but because he is the son of GOD.....a subordinate......a progeny of the almighty........Jesus right from his pre-existence has always been GODs servant......and will be forever......

Where is it written in the bible that from His pre existence He has always been GODs servant?

[quote author=plappville]What , Are you serious? :oI thought Jesus said he can do nothing by Himself? So how Come God was able to raise Christ from the dead?[/q

though HE is GOD..Phiphns2:6,HE only came to serve..Philphns2:7 says HE came as a SERVANT(NOT that HEs one)and a servant must have a master,thats the sole purpose of the name The SON.
The names FATHER and SON is just an arrangement in the GODHEAD

ijawkid: ..... Jesus said that The FAther is greater than him,.......why cant you just accept this truth and move on.....??....YAHWEH>>JESUS>>MAN..Jesus is less than his GOD and FATHER just as we are lesser than JESUS ........the scriptures you put up there in no way suggests there are 2 gods or some acclaimed co equal with GOD.....there is only one true God,and that is the Father...it is this God Jesus himself worships...it is this God that we all(including Jesus) are image of........listen O i-chuka " YAHWEH OUR GOD IS ONE YAHWEH" .....

stick to the one GOD the FATHER....
1 corinthians 8:6
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
New International Version (©1984)
yet for us there is[b] but one God, the Father[/b], from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Living Translation (©2007)
But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



ephesians 4:6


New International Version (©1984)
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

New Living Translation (©2007)
and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all


my brother the only GOD i know and worship is the FATHER,...the same GOD and FATHER of Jesus....

ijawkid: ..... Jesus said that The FAther is greater than him,.......why cant you just accept this truth and move on.....??....YAHWEH>>JESUS>>MAN..Jesus is less than his GOD and FATHER just as we are lesser than JESUS ........the scriptures you put up there in no way suggests there are 2 gods or some acclaimed co equal with GOD.....there is only one true God,and that is the Father...it is this God Jesus himself worships...it is this God that we all(including Jesus) are image of........listen O i-chuka " YAHWEH OUR GOD IS ONE YAHWEH" .....

stick to the one GOD the FATHER....
1 corinthians 8:6
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
New International Version (©1984)
yet for us there is[b] but one God, the Father[/b], from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Living Translation (©2007)
But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________



ephesians 4:6


New International Version (©1984)
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

New Living Translation (©2007)
and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all


my brother the only GOD i know and worship is the FATHER,...the same GOD and FATHER of Jesus....

And who,s Isaiah referring to in ISAIAH9>6 as the EVERLASTING/ENTERNAL FATHER?

Revelation1:12.And I turned to see the VOICE that spake with me..
The book of the Revelation is full of voices. It begins with "I turned to see the voice." A strange way of putting things. Did ever anyone see a VOICE? There is, however, no mistake made. A vital reality is in this seeming error, as we shall see. We have known much to be made of this "voice" factor in the Bible. True as it is that God can make Himself vocal and audible, taking up men and articulating His thoughts through them, as He has ever done, yet we beg to stress that in this case it is not the voice of man in view, and it is not primarily the voice at all, but it is that there is something God has to say, and that a very important something. The most pertinent question that can possibly be asked at this time is

What is God Saying Today?

A striking feature of our time is that so few of the voices have a distinctive message. There is a painful lack of a clear word of authority for the times. While there are many good preachers of the Gospel, and while we are not without champions of the vital verities of the Faith, we are sadly in need of the Prophet with his "Thus saith the Lord" which he has received in a commission born of a peculiarly chastened fellowship with God.

Why it is so? Many who might have this ministry have become so much a part of a system? A system which puts preachers so much upon a professional basis, the effect of which is to make preaching a matter of demand and supply; of providing for the established religious order and programme? Not only in the matter of preaching, but in the whole organisation and activity of "Christianity" as we have it in the systematised form TODAY. There is not the freedom and detachment for speaking ONLY when "the burden of the word of the Lord" is upon the prophet, or when he could say, "The hand of the Lord was upon me." The present order requires a man to speak every so often; hence he must get something, and this necessity means either that God must be offered our programme and asked to meet it (which He will not do) or the preacher must make something for the constantly recurring occasion. This is a pernicious system and it opens the door to dangerous and baneful intrusions of what is of man and not of God. The most serious aspect of this way of things is that it results in VOICES, VOICES, VOICES, a CONFUSION of VOICES, but not the specific voice with the specific utterance of God for the time. Too often it has the effect of causing men to hear and read just with a view to getting preaching matter, subjects for sermons, and the value of things is judged by their suggestiveness of themes. The man may be a godly man and the message may be the truth, but there is something more than this - is it the message which relates to the immediate time-appointed purpose of God? There are many good men who are giving out what they know and believe of the truth, but at the same time there are many of the Lord's children who are hungry and not being fed.

The food question amongst the Lord's people today is a very acute one, and a more or less good ministry is not going to meet the need. There is a growing concern to know, as distinct from the generalisations of truth and service, what is the LORD,s WORD for now, where we are, and what in the Divine purpose belongs to this present hour. God still has something to say………..

Boomark: Me too i really want to hear that, especially from i.chuka who does not know the difference between the Father and the Son.

So whats your own understanding with the tittle FATHER and SON in relationship with GOD in Heaven

ijawkid: We've not heard you say CHRIST is[b]lesser[/b] than GOD....have you??......say it and let us move on........that's the truth we want you to spread rather than dwell on "" CHRIST is equal with his GOD and FATHER"" which is a fraud...........don't act like you don't know what truth we want you to uphold....

ijawkid: We've not heard you say CHRIST is[b]lesser[/b] than GOD....have you??......say it and let us move on........that's the truth we want you to spread rather than dwell on "" CHRIST is equal with his GOD and FATHER"" which is a fraud...........don't act like you don't know what truth we want you to uphold....

SO you are trying to say there are two GOD abi(greater and a lesser GOD)
While the Bible called HIM God...Ish9>6,JHN1>1.
Job in the OT knew HIM as GOD..Job19>25-27.
Thomas said to HIM,MY LORD and GOD..Jhn20<28.

The Paralysis of a Divided Heart

Now,the trouble with a good many of us has been this divided heart. We are not sure, not absolutely sure about the Lord, about our own position, about the testimony that we are perhaps standing for and talking about; we are not sure about it, we have secret questionings. It does not matter what we say in public and to others about it, God knows the secret of our hearts, whether we are absolutely true in secret with Him over this matter; and there is no way of victory, no way to ascendancy, no way through to the realisation of the Divine end - a people to fulfil a priestly ministry in the universal sovereignty and kingdom of our God and His Christ - until we are on the ground of an absolute undividedness of heart for God in the matter of His testimony. The challenge to our hearts is, Are we utterly in or are we only partly in; half in; three-quarters in? Is there some lurking fascination of Egypt? How Egypt had fascinated and held part of their hearts when they were in the wilderness! Out here everything is uncertain; we never know from one day to another whether we are going to have our food! In Egypt there was at least certainty; we did know what our programme was; we were sure that things would be pretty substantial, that while we had our work we got our food! Out here you are forced to depend upon God, and that is a precarious business. God is more certain than Egypt. There are Christians who feel that this walk of faith is such an uncertain thing. You do not know what the Lord is going to bring you into next, what is going to happen to you. In the world you at least have solid ground under your feet. This flesh wants a basis of evidence for itself; solid earth. This heavenly life - you never know - ah! but do you know the Heavenly ONE?

Let me ask you - Do you believe, beloved, that when, having committed yourself to God, having been consecrated to the Lord, having had an understanding with the Lord, and having been obedient to Him up to all the light He has given you, do you believe that when you get to the glory you will be able to say to the Lord: You let me be deceived, my life has been ruined, I have gone wrong? Is that possible? I do not believe it! I believe that whatever the Accuser may try to bring upon us, and whatever others may say about us, if before God in the secret we are honest with Him, if we are cut off by the precious Blood from our own will, our own way, our own schemes, our life interest, and are putting our trust in Him and following the light that He gives, I believe that when we get there, beloved, we shall not have been deceived, but we shall have to say: Lord, You were good to our trust and You led us by a right way that we might come to a city of habitation! The Lord will accept a charge on His honour when we are cut off from ourselves and from all personal and worldly interests, and are wholly for Him.

Philippians Chapter 2

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with God:
e•qual
/ˈēkwəl/AdjectiveBeing the SAME in QUANTITY, SIZE, DEGREE, or VALUE.


NounA PERSON or thing considered to be the SAME as another in STATUS or QUALITY.

So Christ being EQUAL with GOD smply meant HE had the SAME STATUS and QUALITY with God.
I believe you can do the math of the Supremecy of Christ in respect to HIS Divinity.

[quote author=real_Berni]i.chuka



1 Corinthians 15:27-28

27 For “He(God) has put all things under His(jesus) feet.”[size=14pt] But when He(God) says “all things are put under Him(jesus)[/size],”[size=18pt] it is evident that He(God) who put all things under Him(jesus) is excepted. [/size]

28 Now when all things are made subject to Him(jesus), [size=18pt]then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him(God)[/size] who put all things under Him(jesus), that God may be all in all.

Honestly, the perfect answer to the topic have been supplied above, and if you dont agree with it, others that come on the tread will reason with it. bible never teach that God is under or subject to jesus,never but in your own case you seemed to be angry at the boded verse above, such that you are calling almighty God 'my so called almighty' thats extreeme.

now let me show you that God had at a time made jesus Even lower than the angels,

Hebrews 2:9

9 But we see [size=14pt]Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels,[/size] for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

chuka,

pls who made Jesus, a little lower than the angels?

and, do you see how powerful the ALMIGHTY GOD IS?

comment pls![/quote]That's the sole reason i asked you earlier your understanding about the Tittle the FATHER and the SON.
Because,the tittle FATHER and SON was for a specific reason.
Grasp/apprehend the meaning,you can then see through the verse you quoted.

ijawkid: Chei.......you are a disgrace to christianity and to the scriptures.......so when the bible calls Jesus the ""power of God"" you immediately conclude that Yahweh can't do a thing without Jesus??...........smh!!!!...........Jesus being the power of GOD only means Gods power was displayed towards and through Jesus,just like every other servant of God has......the difference is that in Jesus' case he was given more power and through Him Yahweh would accomplish more..........



Jesus proved to be the long awaited messiah,Yahwehs annointed one,foretold to manifest the ""spirit of mightineSs""...read isaiah 11:1-5 to confirm that.........

Let's read malachi 5:4 to see what it means when Jesus is called ""power of God"" so that you don't go around deluding yourself....
______________________________
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
He will stand and shepherd them in[b]in the strenght of Yahweh[/b] , in the majestic name of Yahweh His God. They will live securely, for then His greatness will extend to the ends of the earth.
_______________________________
That scripture lucidly shows that Jesus acted in the strenght of Yahweh,just like moses and all faithful servants of God acted........Jesus being the power of God connotes nothing more than Jesus being used by Yahweh to accomplish powerful works..........Jesus was annointed with power to carry out great works which made paul rightly call him the power of GOD......

Acts 10:38....
_______________________________
New Living Translation (©2007)
And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him
_______________________________

Jesus was filled with Gods power and will carry out Yahwehs works.......Yahweh has always accomplished his powerful works through his agents or servants....and Jesus isn't excluded..........who ever God is with becomes the power of God or a tool of GOD..........that is why Jesus repeatedly said the things he does are not of his own,but that of HIM(Yahweh) that sent him(Jesus)...........Jesus is Gods agent,son,servant,apostle etc..........for you to now say Yahweh is powerless without Jesus is an insult and if you had existed in the times of the isrealites would have been struck down...........just because Jesus has sent forth his disciples to preach today just as Yahweh sent Jesus to the earth does not make Jesus powerless.....would you be happy if someone comes up to tell you that Jesus is powerless simply because we carry out his command to preach here on earth??.........please go and read the scriptures and stop this blasphemy..........







Lol.......was Jesus telling the pharisees his name or for hÓw long he had existed??.......

You are the fraud for insinuationg that Jesus' name is Yahweh.......the pharisees knew what the messiahs name was,they were only worried about how old Jesus was.....from the context of john 8:58 the question the pharisees asked and the reply Jesus gave was centered around AGE and not around the tetragramatton and its meaning.....you are the scam!!!!!!.........Yahweh is not Christ and Christ is not Yahweh..........even a 2 year old knows this basic fact...but as I can see the trinity has clouded your whole brain...........smh!!!!!!!!!!........go back and read the scriptures and stop this madness!!!!!!........

Yahweh our GOD is 1 Yahweh.......Jesus himself quoted those words.......Yahweh is the name of 1 person and not 2 or 3.........

Lol,
You see,that's the problem.throwing PEARLs to Swine/Dogs...Matt7:6.
Though in a more extrem case if the dog/swine is willing truthfully then the Children leftover can be given on to them..Matt15:27.
So dude,whenever you are ready for the Crumbs do let me know.

ijawkid: @Real-beni......good job........

@I.CHUKA.....smh!!!!......I can't believe you said this "" without Christ,your so called Almighty
God has no power and can do nothing
without going through Christ"".......

That statement is an insult to Yahweh who is the Father and GOD of Jesus.....your statement is an insult to the[b]one[/b] who gave Jesus life and every single thing Jesus has.........

do you see what the trinity is doing to you and what it has done to you.??....................smh!!!!!..........

Paul said in 1Cor1:24 that JESUS CHRIST is the POWER of GOD.remove HIM(JESUS) from your so called almighty..and you have NOTHING!
And i believe YAHWEH in Hebrew meant "I AM",well Christ told the Israelites that "I AM" is who HE is..Jhn8:58.so bro,if your Yahweh is not Christ then he's a BIG FRAUD!!

[quote author=real_Berni]you are changing the point here, what john saw was rendered in past tence, now you are changing it to futuristic 'saints will have' pls, lets deal with the ones already captured by this inspired prophet, and so you need support the statement with a bible verse pls, and if not it remain a mere opinion!

you have earlier claimed there are no 2 thrones in the heaven, but i showed you otherwise, more than 2, now show us 'the saints throne' i want the name 'saint' to be in the verse pls! im waiting for that.



i have answered it with this verse below before, but you are fighting that verse, its here again;

Hebrews 1:1-3;

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right [/b]hand of [b]the Majesty on high,

the Majesty Almighty God is the one occupying the seat, and he is not the same as the one who sat down at the right hand.[/quote][quote author=real_Berni]you are changing the point here, what john saw was rendered in past tence, now you are changing it to futuristic 'saints will have' pls, lets deal with the ones already captured by this inspired prophet, and so you need support the statement with a bible verse pls, and if not it remain a mere opinion!

you have earlier claimed there are no 2 thrones in the heaven, but i showed you otherwise, more than 2, now show us 'the saints throne' i want the name 'saint' to be in the verse pls! im waiting for that.



i have answered it with this verse below before, but you are fighting that verse, its here again;

Hebrews 1:1-3;

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right [/b]hand of [b]the Majesty on high,

the Majesty Almighty God is the one occupying the seat, and he is not the same as the one who sat down at the right hand.[/quote]And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel..MAT.19:28.
Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the RIGHT HAND of the POWER of God...LUKE22:69

[quote author=real_Berni]stop saying that 'you are trying to say there's two thrones in Heaven' but rather what the bible says!

lets see the imformation we have as regards thrones in heaven as revealed by john;
Revelation 4:2-4

2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. 4 [size=14pt]Around the throne were twenty-four thrones,[/size] and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads

lets not deviate from the bible, but let me ask at this point, do you agree that there are more than one throne in the heaven with this proof? yes or no, because it seems you have your own personal explanations that is obviously differnt frm what bible teaches!


sorry, the bible did not teach that, since no bible quote that says that, i m putting it as your personal opinion!

.

Are you re-writing the bible? simply bcause you hate to read this truth? my bro, its not the right way to tread pls!

this is blasphemy! my brother, are you saying that God is 'subjected to christ'? after these bolded facts? 1 corinthians 15:27-28

28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then [size=28pt]the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. [/size]

i tire ooo.[/quote]BRO,you are not getting it.
even saints will have there own thrones,BUT theres only ONE THRONE in full view,every other thrones(the elders,saints,etc)will be focus on this one throne and not two thrones.
my question to you is the throne Isaiah saw in ISAIAH6,Who is the occupant of that throne?
still busy now,will be more detail later

Bidam: what a revelation...God bless u bro.. The right hand of God is actually a hand of Power...infact both of God hands are Right hand..i ave never heard of left hand.

May He bless u2.
You know,1Cor1:24 says that Christ is the power and wisdom of God.meaning that without Christ God has no power/wisdom.
He told Moses in Exd11:1 that He will bring *ONE MORE* plague on Pharaoh and on Egypt.after that,Pharaoh will not just let them go,but will drive them out completely.and that *ONE MORE PLAGUE* is the LAMB typifing our lord Jesus.

[quote author=real_Berni]There is no basis whatsoever to compare in these situations, because;

if you are assuming solomon=jesus,

and

David=God(father) ....as an example,

Then, there was no time at all that God almighty was ever dethroned! that is,God has been and ever been OCCUPYING the greatest throne in heaven, and at no point has jesus ever occupy Gods Majestic throne, but rather when jesus was made to be the heir of all things,or was appointed by his father to be heir of all things, he(jesus) was occupying 'a lower throne' at the right hand side of the MAJESTY! read;

Hebrews 1:1-3;

1 [size=14pt]God,[/size] who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days [size=14pt]spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things,[/size] through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, [size=14pt]sat down at the [b]right hand of the Majesty [/b]on high[/size],

moreover, verse 27 of 1 cor 15 above still point to the fact that;
verse 27;
when He(Almighty God) says “all things are put under Him (jesus, God's son) ”it is evident that He (the Almighty God) who put all things under Him (the son, jesus's) is excempted. (not included as subject under jesus's canopy) plain scriptures!

are we fighting what the bible says? its there in verse 27 of 1 cor 15 above!


but in the case of David,God through appointment appoints his son Solomon to occupy his fathers position, that is,succeed his father and davids throne throne was to be occupied by his son.

any objection?[/quote]So you are trying to say there's two thrones in Heaven?have you ever seen/heard of a Kingdom with two thrones?
That phrase "SITTED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD"simply means all powers in Heaven and on earth has been vested on Him.without Christ,your so called Almighty God has no power and can do nothing without going through Christ.
Who do think Isaiah was referring to in Isaiah6:1-5

[quote author=real_Berni]Good question

[size=18pt]the FATHER....(the Almighty God)[/size] is hereinafter reffered to as 'he' in the context; who ''put all things under His (the son, jesus's) feet''.

27 For[size=18pt] “He[/size] has put all things under His [size=14pt](jesus's)[/size] feet.” But when [size=18pt]He[/size] says “all things are put under [size=14pt]Him (jesus, God's son)

,[/size]” it is evident that [size=18pt]He (the Almighty God)[/size] who put all things under [size=14pt]Him (the son, jesus's)[/size] is excempted.

in summary;

# The Father is Greater than the son.

# the son is under the father, and subject to the father and are not co-equal! even sharing some form of title(s) does not make them equal. as explanations thereafter rendered suspicious statement bare!

# The father even made the son 'lower than the angels at a particular time' before exaulting him.[/quote]when Solomon was enthrone as King in Israel,was David his Father under the canopy of the Son's enthroment or not?

[quote author=real_Berni]Waiting for your answer! pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese![/quote]Lol,
Bro,so u dnt want me to work abi??

@real Berni
Whats your understanding of this titles,the FATHER and the SON.
Because thats the KEY to the verse(1cor15:27-28)you quoted.
lets start from there.

[quote author=real_Berni]@i chuka



my brother, i expect you to counter 1 corinthians 15:27-28,

its not a fight, ok i withdraw those last words ''can you see why you need to read bible and not depend on what your pastors says''
im sorry for that!

but then, lets discuss the bible 1 corinthians 15:27-28 really nail the head, 'that when the statement that everything 'power in heaven and earth' is beign put under jesus, the person, (God) that put these under him, is EXCLUDED

and further added these to clarify any doubt;

VS28...''then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him''

you can really see that?[/quote][quote author=real_Berni]@i chuka



my brother, i expect you to counter 1 corinthians 15:27-28,

its not a fight, ok i withdraw those last words ''can you see why you need to read bible and not depend on what your pastors says''
im sorry for that!

but then, lets discuss the bible 1 corinthians 15:27-28 really nail the head, 'that when the statement that everything 'power in heaven and earth' is beign put under jesus, the person, (God) that put these under him, is EXCLUDED

and further added these to clarify any doubt;

VS28...''then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him''

you can really see that?[/quote]Am sorry too.
Ok,when am less busy,we can discuss.few hours time.
By the way,WELCOME to the Religion section.

[quote author=real_Berni]@i.chuka


i can see that you want to learn,....''That in the name of JESUS every knee shall bow,in Heaven,on Earth and under the Earth''..Phillp2:10.

does that includes God, the almighty father? capital no, because God was exempted, read;



1 Corinthians 15:27-28
New King James Version (NKJV)

27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that [size=16pt]He who put all things under Him is excepted.[/size]

28 Now [size=16pt]when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him,[/size] that God may be all in all.

can you see why you need to read bible and not depend on what your pastors says![/quote]lol.
I can see why you need to focus more on your Video biz(in the business section) and stop trying to GIVE what you don't really HAVE!!

[quote author=real_Berni]then what is christ relation ship with God Almighty, is God same or under christ supremacy? answer pls, waaiting![/quote]That in the name of JESUS every shall bow,in Heaven,on Earth and under the Earth..Phillp2:10.
Every other name is under the canopy of the name of Jesus.

Everything was created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:16 NLT)

The key to everything with God is Life.... We must realize that Christ's ascendancy, supremacy, power, ability and all that goes with Headship, is in terms of His prerogative of Life. He is the Son, vested with Life; He has the right given Him of God to give Life to as many as believe. That is why He is Head. We can set up people in office and make Popes of them and they may make great claims, but what does it amount to? When We come up against death, what can they do? But bring in one who has the power of life over death, be he ever so humble on this earth, he is head, he is master, he is lord. You may bring all the greatest physicians that the world knows into the presence of death, and when death takes charge, they are helpless. But supposing you bring in a little, insignificant person who is nobody, with no capabilities whatever in this world, no training, and that one be invested with the power of life over death, he rules out all these others, they are as nothing in his presence, he is lord of the situation.

Christ is Head, not just by appointment, but in terms of Life. We may be very insignificant people on this earth, nothing at all to be taken account of by the world, but if only we have Christ in fullness of Life we are in a supreme position, we make all the great organizations and institutions as nothing. It is a spiritual thing, the impact of Christ; not tradition, not history, not theology, but the spiritual power of His presence in terms of Life through faith and righteousness.

As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world's interest in me has also died. (Galatians 6:14 NLT)

A truly crucified people are never in danger of the world. It is only when the Cross has not done its work that the world has a place. The world has no place with a crucified man or woman, or a crucified company of believers. The Cross is a great defensive against the world. If you want to keep the world out, put the Cross in its place. If the Cross is truly in its place in fullness, then everything else will come into order. The Cross is the great defensive against the world. The Cross is the great defensive against evil powers. The Cross makes everything safe; it makes everything safe for the Lord.

the Lord wants to commit Himself. He wants to trust Himself to His people, but if the Cross is not there at work, the Lord cannot trust Himself to them. The Lord says, "It is not safe for Me to give Myself there, or I should be involved in their un-crucified condition." The Cross makes everything safe for the Lord, and the Cross makes everything safe for the Church. If the Cross is really at work in all of us, we can trust one another. It is quite safe to trust yourself to a crucified man or woman.

He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:30)
What is spiritual growth? What is spiritual maturity? What is it to go on in the Lord? I fear we have got mixed ideas about this. Many think that spiritual maturity is a more comprehensive knowledge of Christian doctrine, a larger grasp of scriptural truth, a wider expanse of the knowledge of the things of God; and many such features are recorded as marks of growth, development, and spiritual maturity. Beloved, it is nothing of the kind.
The hallmark of true spiritual development and maturity is this: that we have grown so much less and the Lord Jesus has grown so much more. The mature soul is one who is small in his or her own eyes, but in whose eyes the Lord Jesus is great. That is growth. We may know a very great deal, have a wonderful grasp of doctrine, of teaching, of truth, even of the Scriptures, and yet be spiritually very small, very immature, very childish. (There is all the difference between being childish and child-like.) Real spiritual growth is just this: I decrease, He increases. It is the Lord Jesus becoming more. We can test spiritual growth by that...