₦airaland Forum

Ihedinobi: @i.chuka, I agree with you in pretty much everything. God has always been an exceptional teacher. He uses signs and symbols we can understand and relate to teach us heavenly (that is, hidden) realities. Eve was indeed a type of the Church as was ethnic Israel. In each of them, God unveiled to a limited degree what His Church is. This is very like all the sin offerings that were made which all pointed to Christ as their antitype.

Also the man-child is truly a company of overcomers, but they're not the only overcomers. 1 John, at least, declares very clearly that just being a believer makes any given person an overcomer already. Every Christian, hence, is an overcomer. But this is mostly as a potential. Those who turn actualize the fullness of that potential are those that make up the man-child company.

With respect to the Church's purpose, it is to come fully and actually into all that Christ means, not quite to destroy the works of the devil all over again. The Church was left behind to, if you like, study Christ. She is the actual body of Christ. She is Christ's instrument of operation, she is to the Lord what our arms and legs and torso and other parts of our body are to our brain. As such, she must learn to synchronize with Him and draw upon His limitless resources to accomplish His Great and Eternal Purposes (which, naturally, are the same as hers). This lesson is one she can only learn in the face of adversity though, same as one can only build strong muscles by exerting them against resistance. As resistance is gradually increased, so is strength to match it. Therefore Satan is the resistance employed by the Lord to perfect His Church.

The fact is that the Church has never forgotten or lost her Purpose for being here. From generation to generation, the Lord has always had that few that would settle for nothing less than His fullness. As soon as their number is completed, He will catch them up to His Throne so that He can focus on the lackadaisical ones whom, as He says, He will "appoint a place with the hypocrites" or "cast out into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" until He has made them ready to join their brethren. Whatever may be thought, whatever may be seen, the Church has never failed nor ever will.

Thanks bro.great post!!
You are right about the Church inevitable to FAIL.that is from Gods own point of view.just like Adam is the only constituent of Eve(God did not mix the dust of the ground with the rib of Adam in creating Eve),the Church in like manner constitute of Christ only.from heavenly point of view, the Church cannot sin and is unable to sin,since she came out of Christ.but viewing the Church from here portrays hopelessness.
But,Ephns1:2-7,says that we(the Church) has already been blessed with all spiritual blessing in the heavenlies.even before the foundation of the world.
From our own point of view there's no hope,but from His we have been Glorified already.

[quote author=Ihedinobi]Just read some of the comments (mostly on the first and last page). Not certain I fit here. But I already committed to explaining so I will with as much brevity as courtesy can allow and retreat to the sidelines.

Like i.chuka said, the man-child is representative of a group. He was not entirely right though in the "destroying the works of Satan before the second coming of Christ" part.

The group is also called "firstfruits". They aren't necessarily more special than every other Christian. They're just those who pursue Christ relentlessly regardless the cost. They are the "servant found doing as his master commanded" when He returns. They're the ones who "loved not their lives to the end". Members of this group are the full maturity of what Christianity is in potential.

Every Christian is born (speaking of the New Birth, of course) with the vast potential of Christ. But not all will actualize it. Some will waste it, some will invest it with enormous profits in return. According to the returns will be the reward. And the reward in view is the Throne of God.

Even the "least of the saints" belongs by right of birth in that Throne. But exercise of that right will vary according to maturity. And, like I have said, not all Christians will reach full maturity. A great many will not care about it, but the relatively few will and these few are those who will exercise all the rights of the Throne of which we speak. These few are represented by the man-child, the hundred and forty-four thousand (a symbolic number) on Mount Zion (another prophetic symbol) with the Lamb.

This man-child is the reason the Church has been on earth since Jesus went back to the Father. The Church is here to produce "him". Once she has and "he" has been caught up to God, the time of the end will come into glaring view and Satan will go berserk. The rest of the Church hang around to ripen under the onslaught of the "man of lawlessness".

When they have, the earth will be reaped again and the days of wrath will follow.

I don't see any need to go on and I might have exceeded substantially the "brevity" I had in mind. Summary: the woman is "the assembly of called-out ones" a.k.a the heavenly Jerusalem, the mother of all Christians; the man-child is the group of full-grown, "matured" Christians, those who kept their lamps burning; the "rest of her descendants" (AMP) are the well, er, foolish (not my word o, Jesus's) Christians who played truant during school.

[/quote

Bro, who else will destroy the works of Satan apart from the Man child.
Christ is not coming back to destroy destroy any satanic work again in His second coming but to reign.He has done His part,the rest is left for us His Church.
But since the Church has failed,God is calling forth a group of believers to stand as a representive for the Church against His enemy Satan.He is calling forth you and I to stand in place of the whole church,though the Church will get the full credit.

Ubenedictus: You have shown or tried to show why the woman isnt israel or mary nor is d child Jesus.
Since u have presented an arguement 4 what the child and the woman isnt, can you please tell who they are?

Bros,me don talk who the Woman and the Man Child be,wetin you want me 2talk again nah?

@ plap. The book of Revelation has Christ and His Bride/Church in full view and not the nation of Israel.
The woman was clothed with the
sun,that is the sun is shining upon her,in this present age,God is revealing Himself through her,this shows her relationship with Christ and the age of Grace.(God is revealing Himself in this age through the Church and not the nation of Israel)
2.The woman had the moon "underneath her feet.the phase beneath her feet"means that the moon is subjected at her feet,the light of the moon is a reflecting light,it has no light of is own.indicating that all the things in the age of the law merely reflected the things in the age of Grace(the nation of Israel is merely a reflection of the body of Christ which is the Church)
3.The woman had a crown of twelve stars upon her head.the chief figures in the age of the Patriarchs were from the time of Abraham to the twelve tribes.the crown upon her head speaks of her relatnshp to the age of the Patriarchs.
She's not only related to the age of Grace,but also to the age of the law and the age of the patriarchs.
So,the Woman in the vision can't be just the nation of Israel,the nation of Israel is just a small fry in the bigger picture of things.

plappville: But Christ gave birth to the church, If the woman gave birth to Christ, then how can the woman be the Church? or do you want to enligten us more on this?
Am out for now though. I will BRB....

No,She gave birth to a group of believers called the overcomers according to the seven churches in Asia and in Rev12:11.
The scripture says that this Man-Child will "shepherd all the nations with an iron Rod"this is Gods purpose.the work of the church is to cause Satan to lose his power and bring in Gods kingdom.but the church has not attained to gods purpose,frankly speaking She(the church) don't even know Gods purpose anymore.so,what can God do?
He will choose a group of overcomers(believers from the failed system,the church)who will attain His purpose and fulfill His demand.this is the principle of the Man-Child.
There are many examples of this principle in the bible.like during the time of Judges,the people of Israel were oppressed by the midnite and were in great desperation.out of one of the tribes,God raised up Gideon to lead a contingent of men and chase away the enemy.the whole nation was set free because of this group.the responsibility rested on the whole nation,but some were afraid and some were slothful,therefore a group of them went forth to the battle and brought benefits to the whole nation.
That's the principle of the Man-Child or overcomers to take position of the whole church and do the work for the church.before God,the church should be in that condition which He desires,She should be responsible to Him,fulfilling the work committed to her and standing in her proper position.the church,however,has failed and is still failing today.She has not become what She was originally purposed to be,She has not done her work,taken up her responsibility,nor stood in her proper position.she has not gained the ground for God.so out of the church God calls forth this group of believers to stand in the position of the church and dwelt with Satan,there accomplishment is counted as the work of the whole church.
That's the reason for the birth of the Male-child.

Gen2:18-24,Eph5:22-32,Rev12:1-17.and Rev21:1-22.
Four Women are mentioned in these four passages of the scriptures.in Gen2 the Woman is Eve,in Eph5 she is the Church,in Rev12 she is the Woman seen in the vision,and in Rev21 she is the Wife of the Lamb.these Women are the same in principle and in reality.
1cor15:45 says that Adam was a type of our Lord Jesus,and Roms5:14 says Adam was a figure of the Man(Christ) who was to come.Adam then foreshadowed Christ,he portrayed Christ in figure.
Adam's wife is Eve,and the Church is the wife of Christ according to Eph5.
Since Adam is a type/figure of Christ,his wife also typifies the Church.
The Woman in Gen3 and Rev12 both encounter the serpent/dragon.here we see the correspondence and correlation of the scriptures,the begining with the end.furthermore,God particularly points out the the great dragon is the old serpent.this means that He is referring to the serpent who had been mentioned once before.God makes the point clear that it was that one and only old serpent.the emphasis is on the word "THE" ..the old serpent..Rev20:2..therefore the Woman mentioned here must also be that Woman.
The sun,moon,and stars mentioned in Gen are mentioned in Rev12 in the same principle.as the serpent was in Gen3,so the same serpent is here also.the Seed of the Woman mentioned in Gen3 is also mentioned here.even the travail of birth is in Gen3,and its also here in Rev12.put these two portion of scripture together,we can surely see that the Woman in Rev12 is the Woman whom God purposed in His eternal will.everything that will happen to her at the end time is clearly stated here.the Woman in Gen2(before the fall) speaks of Gods eternal purpose,the Woman in Eph5 speaks of the position and the future of the Church and the Woman in Rev12 reveals the things at the end time.
Now,who is the Woman in Rev12?
Since she is the same Woman in Gen3,who is a type/figure of the Church,we can boldly say that the Woman in Rev12 is the CHURCH.

Sis,na plenty work b dis oo,but lets see how it goes later today.

Ubenedictus: i have been talking it seems you didnt notice.
"the church has failed" that one isnt talking about the assembly (ecclesia) of christ right? My bible says d gates of hell cannot prevail!

Since its a heavenly vision(Rev12:1),the woman is entirely of heaven.neither Mary/the nation of Israel have this position.
2.After the woman bore the man-child,she fled into the wilderness.if we likened this woman to the nation of Israel and the child been Christ who was caught up to the throne,it does not correspond with the actual facts.long before Christ ascended the nation of Israel was gone....its impossible for the woman to be a reference to the nation of Israel.there is even less of a basis to refer to her as a Mary.
4.after the man-child was caught up unto God,there was a proclamations in heaven(Rev12:10).we know that this has not yet been accomplished.Ephesains6 tells us that the church on earth must still battle with the rulers,authorities and forces of evil from the heavenlies.since this portion of scripture has not yet occurred,its impossible for it to be a reference to the time of Jesus..........

Ubenedictus: please can u ref this to scriptures?

Sir,the problem is not scripture ref.but US!
Are we willing to hear and accept the Truth??
Sir, the Church has FAILED!!.it cannot fullfill Gods purpose here on earth.even in the time of the Apostles according to the book of Revelations(the seven Churches) already have issues.
If you are ready,then lets talk.

plappville: He is not confused at all, you have gat to take your time and Read carefully.
Isaiah 66:7-11: 7“Before she goes into labor,she gives birth;
before the pains come upon her,
she delivers a son.
8Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.
9Do I bring to the moment of birth
and not give delivery?” says the Lord.
“Do I close up the womb
when I bring to delivery?” says your God.
10“Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her,
all you who love her;
rejoice greatly with her,
all you who mourn over her.
11For you will nurse and be satisfied
at her comforting breasts;
you will drink deeply
and delight in her overflowing abundance.”."

Here, Isaiah prophesied ages before Christ, of a woman bringing forth a 'man child.' "She," verse ten tells us, is Jerusalem,
Isaiah should be referring to the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 12:5 said the woman brought forth a 'man child;' Isaiah 66:7 said Jerusalem was delivered of a 'man child.'
Now Isaiah 66:8 expresses astonishment: "Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?"
Just like you believed @i.chuka was confused. Think about it, What was so amazing that Isaiah would be so surprised? Isaiah saw a whole nation, born in one day. That is something outstanding no? I believe this Revelation is deeper than we see it.

May our Lord continue 2uplift you.

^^The Woman in Gen3(Eve) is a shadow of the Woman in Revelation12.
Both have nothing to do with the nation of Israel,Mary and our Lord Jesus directly.

nne3870: did you say group When did a male 'child' become group? Don't confuse yourself

Just as The Church which is one body,comprises of group of believers.so also the Man Child is a group of overcomers.

Ubenedictus: An anti-catholic thead just ended and among d points raised by my protestant friends is rev 12, many were interested in telling me who is woman is but no one was interested the answering my question "who is the male child?" ofcourse i blive d key to know wu d woman is, is the male child. So i decided to bring the question to the public: in rev 12, who is the male child??

The Man-Child is a group of overcomers that will destroy the works of Satan before the second coming of Christ.

sadeiyare: 1. They are believers of because Rev.11 says they are first witness before GOD will give them power.
2. They are prophets because they will prophesy
3. They will be ordinary for more years than during the years of their 3 1/2 years minitry and have to fulfill righteousness just like Jesus waited till 30yrs before he started his main ministry.
4. They will minister in the spirit/ way of Elijah and moses based on the type of signs and wonders that they will perform.
5.They will minister in the first 3 1/2years of the tribulation because Jesus did not just come back on earth after their ministry, and the beast was revealed on earth.
6. They were the only approved HolyGhost filled ministers on earth, because the Bilble states that they are the two lampstand or olive tress that stand before the GOD of the earth, thereby are humans.
7. They will have a very strong Angelic ministry because there is no book as angelic-activity full as revelation.
8. They are going to preach a pure gospel, thereby been hated by the people of the earth, including the pharisees of their time.
9. They are going to have manifestation in glimpse of their ministry, because GOD refine His gifts upon His servants.
10.They will be able to interpret signs of the end-time better because this is the center of their ministry.

I am so convinced that they are already here on earth.

Seconded!

staggerman: There are inhabitable parts of the earth. Even the deserts and underground caves were created by God.
Prior to making the earth habitable, there was nothing but land mass and water over the earth.

According to Gen 1:3, God created the earth even before He created light. So the earth was in darkness at this time.
Just shut your eyes tight and imagine how it was. No light. No green grass. No Ozone layer. No perfect atmosphere. No seasons. Nothing. The whole earth was inhabitable at that time. It was formless and void.

But God began to make it a home. Not just a planet but a home for man.
Think about how you buy a piece of undeveloped land.
It's full of trees and bush. There are wild animals everywhere, including snakes.
You get people to clear the land. You start the foundation. You complete the structure and develop it. Then you furnish your house.
What you have done is to transform that inhabitable bush into a home.
That is what God did on earth.

Gen1:1 says In the begining God created the Heavens and the Earth.
Meaning the Heavens and the Earth has been created already in Gen1:1.
Gen1:2 The Earth WAS formless and void,and darkness was over the surface of the deep..
That is the Earth created In the begining WAS now formless and void with darkness.
Something happened to the Earth created in the begining by God to be Formless,void and filled with darkness.

staggerman: Most people believe (although scripture doesn't say so) that something occurred between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2.
But could that be true? Should we seriously believe such theory without scriptural backing?

The truth is, nothing really happened there.
Think about this... What makes the earth beautiful and full of life? If you know the answer, now imagine taking away all of that, and you have a formless and lifeless earth.

When God created the earth, I believe all He first created was the land mass and the waters.
There were no trees, grasses, animals, nothing. Just darkness. The sun had not been commanded to come forth and bring light upon the earth. The flowers did not provide any beauty cos they didn't exist yet.

Before God brought forth every life form, there was nothing here to give form or life to the earth.
God began to transform the formless void into a beautiful place for man to exist.
Of course He divided the waters, brought light, provided the right amount of oxygen, put deposits of hydrocarbon (crude oil), gold, diamond etc.

And of course God began to create the plants, the animals and every life form. Now the earth was a good home for God's children.

Think about how expectant Parents prepare their babies room before the baby is born. An unused storage room can be transformed into a beautiful crib. And we know God is more loving than every man. Our love nature comes from Him.

How can God create something that is WITHOUT FORM,FILLED WITH VOID AND DARKNESS in the begining?

Joagbaje: Satan was already a fallen being before man was created . That was why he was able to make man fall too.

True.
Gen1:2.indicates that something went wrong after God's creation in Gen1:1.

Father!!

Boomark: I shall not fear. Even though i walk through the value shadow of death and demons. Because i have the blood of Jesus Christ in abundance. Satan and his demons will never dare the blood. And he who want to get me must pass through the blood of Christ.

With this i will walk smilingly and praisingly to God while they look at me envingly and will never do any thing.

How confident are you? Share it.

Amen!!
For His Blood is our scepter of authority here on earth..Rev1:5-6.

God gave us His Law,for us to break it.by doing so His Redemptive work on the Cross would be appreciated and accepted by us.

Gal3:22-25
22,But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin,so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe(because of sin,mankind has been condemned by God's Word,but through faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ anyone that believes has Life.Jhn3:16)
23.But before faith came,we were kept in custody under the Law,being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed(before Grace came,His Law was given to us,so that we know how sinful and incapable we really are in upholding His Law.that when His Grace is revealed later on,it would be appreciated)
24.Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ,so that we may be justified by faith(because of the Law,we now know how sinful and completely incapable we are of trying to please/keep Gods Law,that our capability is in Christ alone)
25.But now that faith has come,we are no longer under a tutor(now that we are Christains,He will fullfill the demands of the Law in us and through us.Matt5:17)

OLAADEGBU: The truth is that we have all sinned and are deserving of punishment and we will fall into either of the following group of betrayers, beraters, beneficiaries or believers as represented by these 4 thieves. May we receive the grace to become believers in Christ so as to receive salvation and eternal life.

Amen!!

[quote author=bermuda1][/quote]Thank God you are no longer efficient.
All am saying is there's no Life in that Order.
Apologies.

@Oyboy and bermuda1
KK has nothing whatsoever to offer.
You guys just have to know Christ in Person.

A thermometer that points Man to his Doctor.

For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
For the CREATION WAS SUBJECTED TO FUTILITY,NOT WILLINGLY,BUT BECAUSE OF HIM WHO SUBJECT IT,in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from ITS SLAVERY TO CORRUPTION INTO THE FREEDOM OF THE GLORY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
For we know that THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS AND SUFFERS THE PAINS OF CHILDBIRTH TOGETHER UNTIL NOW.
And not only this,but WE OURSELVES GROANS WITHIN OURSELVES,WAITING EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS,THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY....Roms8:19-23.
I wonder why some people are still anticipating whether there's a curse or not when the whole creation groaneth up till now to be free from the bondage of slavery.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote
@Frosbel
Have you ever heard of a Kingdom with two Thrones?

@Joe4Christ.
Some people argue blindly because they have not seen,and seeing personally is just the begining of the life of a christain.our Lord Jesus Christ told nicodemus that inorder 4him to SEE he have to be born again(Jhn3:3).
Even Isaiah(Ish6:1) that's not even a Christain then saw our Lord Jesus Christ sitted on His Throne highly exalted.

@OP
God don't need our money He needs us

Ma,
where ever you are,you are healed in Jesus Christ name Amen.

frosbel: You Trinitarians are one track minded, just like the Muslims evidence means nothing to you.

Jesus is not GOD , period.

Friend,what you seek is argument and that you can't get from me in the issue concerning the Divinity of Jesus.because one can't argue/reason his way into the Kingdom of God,we are only born into the Kingdom.
Seems some folks are like Nicodemus who thought he can reason/argue himself into God's Kingdom.
I wonder why some christains are not SEEING Him and His Kingdom...Ish6:1-2.

frosbel: Matthew 4:10: "Jesus said to him,'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."'"

John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

1Corinthians 8:5-6: "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords" ), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

1Timothy 2:5: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

James 2:19: "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."


So tell me Mr. Chuka, how can you mathematically make 1 = 3 and vice versa

Can you kindly write the equation you used to derive such a conclusion to allow us have a go at this most mysterious task !

Friend the Holyspirit is our only teacher..1Jhn2:27.so if you are truely a christain,just ask Him to put you through.