₦airaland Forum

ATMC: @i.chucka, u sef, all this pple u quoted had a problem with motive nd not d act of correction. They were dealt with cos their motives was wrong not because they were not supposed to correct. Paul corrected peter nd there was no recorded consequence but miriam a prophetess corrected moses nd there was consequence. R u seeing it...if ur motive is right...to bring d person on d right way...go ahead nd give it, whether d person is bishop, etc, it shouldn't matter, just do it with wisdom. Remember my point; its ok to correct a man of god.

We don't do the correction in public,it had to be done in private(between you and the person).

ATMC: u see, 'if ur bro sins against u', some ministers make mistake dt can make them miss d mark, nd this mistake may not be against u in particular but u sense this man is making a costly mistake. Its good dt he be called to order whether publicly or privately as long as in d end d aim of straightening him is achieved...at this point, d person should not take offence nd quote touch not blah blah. U get me. Its very very ok to correct a man of god because all ur critics may not be wrong afterall.

Some of The effects of correcting men of God in public.
1:Ham and his generation became slaves of slaves to their brethren..Gen9:25-27.
2:Miriam turned leprous..Num12:10.
3:the earth swallowed Koran,Data and Abiram with their household and fire consumed 250men..Num16:31-35.
4:Uzzah was struck dead because of his irreverent act...2Sam6:7.
5:Michel became the only barren woman in the Bible...2Sam6:23.
6:because Moses failed to uphold God's holiness among the israelite,he was denied access to Canaan...Deut32:51.

ATMC: @i.chuka if we should pray for them then we might as well pray for every other believer without reproving them cos its also dangerous seeing dt we r all ministers of reconciliation...

Jesus said "If your brother sins against you,go and show him his fault,JUST BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU.......Matt18:13-17"
We shouldn't uncover the unclothedness of our brothers in public.by doing this,implies that the spirit of rebellious dwelleth in us.

ATMC: @i.chuka, ur interpretation of this story is wonderful. May i call ur attention to d fact dt my post concerns 'men of god' being corrected...d story u shared from d bible teaches me dt god looks at d motive more than he does d act, ham told his brothers not so they do something about it but he was mocking his dad. Get my point clear, a man of god in this our time shouldn't use touch not my anointed to shield himself from reproof/correction...dt's wrong cos he might end up destroying himself. This teaching of 'a man of god should not be corrected cos d bible says touch not my anointed' blah blah is d bane of most ministers. I believe god can use anybody to effect correction, nd our response to correction is an indication of whether we r proud or not nd most men of god nd their followers resist correction with self defence mechanism using d word nd dt's terrible. Again, as per ur post...i don't encourage public correction (though dt should be implemented when necessary) of a man of god for d sake of respect, not withstanding, a man of god should learn to take correction even from a child when necessary for his own good. When d word said d scripture is given for...reproof etc, it didn't specify except for a man of god.

@ATMC
You called them 'Men of GOD' meaning God is directly responsible for their conducts.when we reprove them we are directly saying to God that He made a mistake.
Sister,its a 'Dangerous trend' we should pray,encourage and always cover their 'unclothedness' with love.

ATMC: @i.chuka, ur interpretation of this story is wonderful. May i call ur attention to d fact dt my post concerns 'men of god' being corrected...d story u shared from d bible teaches me dt god looks at d motive more than he does d act, ham told his brothers not so they do something about it but he was mocking his dad. Get my point clear, a man of god in this our time shouldn't use touch not my anointed to shield himself from reproof/correction...dt's wrong cos he might end up destroying himself. This teaching of 'a man of god should not be corrected cos d bible says touch not my anointed' blah blah is d bane of most ministers. I believe god can use anybody to effect correction, nd our response to correction is an indication of whether we r proud or not nd most men of god nd their followers resist correction with self defence mechanism using d word nd dt's terrible. Again, as per ur post...i don't encourage public correction (though dt should be implemented when necessary) of a man of god for d sake of respect, not withstanding, a man of god should learn to take correction even from a child when necessary for his own good. When d word said d scripture is given for...reproof etc, it didn't specify except for a man of god.

@ATMC
You called them 'Men of GOD' meaning God is directly responsible for their conducts.when we reprove them we are directly saying to God that He made a mistake.
Sister,its a 'Dangerous trend' we should pray,encourage and always cover their 'unclothedness' with love.

And Noah began to be a husbandman,and planted a vineyard:and he drink of the wine and was drunken;and he was uncovered within his tent.and Ham,the father of Canaan,saw the unclothedness of his father,and told his two brethren without..and She and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders,and went backward,and covered the unclothedness of their father;and their faces were backward,and they saw not their father's unclothedness and Noah awoke from his wine,and knew what his youngest son had done unto him,and he said "Curse be Canaan;a 'SERVANT' of servants shall he be unto his brethren,and he said,Blessed be Jehovah,the God of Shem;and let Canaan be his Servant.God enlarge japheth,and let him dwell in the tents of Shem;and let Canaan be his servant....Gen9:20-27" In God's plan Noah was the Head of his family.He put the whole family under Noah's authority.but one day Noah became drunk in his vineyard and he uncovered himself in his tent,his youngest son,Ham,saw his father's nakeness and told his two brother's outside(the word outside meant "in public".so far as Noah's conduct was concerned,he certainly was wrong;he should not have been drunk.yet Ham failed to see the dignity of authority.the father is God's instituted authority in the home,but the flesh delights in seeing a defect in authority so as to throw off all restraint.when he saw his father's improper conduct he did not have the slightest sense of shame or sorrow,noo did he try to cover his father's fault.this reveal's that he had a REBELLIOUS SPIRIT.he went out instead and told his brethren,pointing out to them his father's ugliness and so adding to himself the sin of REVILING.in the above verse you can observe,though how Shem and Japheth manage the situation.
From the above scripture,it is seen then that the failure of Noah became a test to Shem,Ham,Japheth,and Ham's son-Canaan.it revealed who was OBEDIENT and who was REBELLIOUS.
After Noah awoke from the wine he prophesied that the descendants of Ham(Canaan) would be cursed and would become the slaves of a slave to their brethren.THE FIRST ONE TO BECOME A SLAVE IN THE BIBLE WAS HAM.
"THRICE" was the sentence pronounced that Canaan would be a slave.indicating that anyone who's not Subject to authority shall be slave to him who does obey authority.
He was the first to be cursed after the flood.not knowing authority,he was put under authority from generation to generation.

5solas: Singing:

E'er since, by faith, I saw the stream
thy flowing wounds supply,
redeeming love has been my theme,
and shall be till I die.
And shall be till I die,
and shall be till I die;
redeeming love has been my theme,
and shall be till I die.

AMEN!!!

pd piper pippen: I want to blve u are inteligent, and not a knuckle, empty headed person taking advantage of the bliss of annoynimity afforded us by this forum! Are u so stupid to suggest that a man's sons and daughters are not his children, I tot NL ws a forum for inteligent persons didn't knw it had already been invaded by bonkums!

Jesus saith unto her,"Touch me not;for I am not yet ascended to My Father;but go to my brethren,and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father,and your "Father";and to My God and Your God...Jhn20:17.
Sir, God alone is our FATHER...Period!!!
The intermediary priestly class of Judaism was abolish 2000years ago.

pd piper pippen: Dear friend, I wld refer u to, malachi 3:8, and matt23:23, we are children of abraham and our father abraham tithed, we are innstructed by the word of God to walk in footsteps of our father, rmbr God introduced faith to us tru abraham, and as his children we are commanded to live by faith just as our dad abraham.

[quote author=pd piper pippen][/quote]We(Christains) are not Children of Abraham,we are the sons/daughters of God...Jhn1:12.

Standing on the Ground of the Perfections of Christ.
What's the meaning of the Blood being applied?.it is that which is the absolute sinlessness of the Lord Jesus being the Ground upon which we Stand.that gives us Authority,gives us Power.it's the essential perfection of Christ as being the Ground of our Confidence,our Faith,our Trust,and our Testimony.if we stand in urselves we are defeated,there are no perfection in us,there's nothing in us whatever that can bring Satan to naught and deliver us from his position of power over us.But when we Stand in Christ,in all the perfection of His nature,of His being,in the absolute sinlessness of Christ represented in that incorruptible Blood,there is Deliverance and so that Blood poured out becomes active,operative in motion,flowing to meet all the accusations of the enemy."the accuser of our brethren is cast down,who accuseth them before our God day and night.Rev12:10".Why? Because they are not standing on the ground of their own imperfect ion and sinfulness,but they are now standing on the Ground of His absolute perfection,and bearing Testimony thereto;"The word of their Testimony..Rev12:11".it is a question of a Ground of absolute Holiness not in ourselves but in Him,and our appropriating by Faith and apprehending by faith all that the Lord Jesus is in His essential being as the spotless Lamb of God for us to God,from God to us........

Aringon: @Whether Pastor Kun or Mr Kun or whatever, if u r against the payment of tithe , then leave and stop interpreting the bible in a wrong way to accommodate ur thoughts. If u don't want to pay then leave, thank God for the lives of people who said they will continue to pay their tithe.

If I may ask u, where do u think the money to maintain the church and upsetting of other bills come from? Oh ye carnal mind and may God in heaven forgive u. Amen

Is it God that told you and your cohorts to offset bills and build a house for Him by collecting tithes from His children?

Rev12:11 says "And they overcame him by the Blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their testimony;and they loved not their lives unto the death"
What is the Ground of Victory? What is the basis of that ultimate Triumph? By what means will God get His end?..It says here "Because of the Blood of the Lamb".Everything relates to the nature of the Blood of the Lord Jesus.the absolute sinlessness of the Lord Jesus in His essential life,in His essential nature.His absolute sinlessness that His nature was altogether devoid of the slightest suspicion of corruption,of sin,of defilement,of corruptibility.that is it's Strenght,that is its Power!that is its Victory.
Before we can understand the working of the power of the Blood of the Lord Jesus,we have to understand the absolute immunity from any suggestion of sin in the nature of the Lord Jesus.sin was not found in Him.He was the "Lamb without blemish and without spot..1ptr1:19"though He was born of a virgin,of a woman who was a member of the Adam's race,yet He inherited none of it sin in His nature,so that it could be said of Him as of no other being ever in the universe "That Holy thing..Luke1:35"Essentially,in every substance He was Holy,and His Blood represents His nature,His life without corruption,,with out sin,without taint of any kind,absolutely sinless and,therefore,Satan has no power over Him "The prince of the world cometh,and hath nothing in me...Jhn14:30".Because of this He can cast out the prince of the world,and can make a show of him openly,triumphing over him in His Cross...Colosns2:15..He can vanquish Satan,He can meet sin and deal with it in the mastery of it because it has no ground in Him of crippling and weakening.
In Zachariah3 we can see Joshua in his place of weakness,a place where he is not functioning in his Holy Calling,in a place of defeat,and the Adversary in the place of power,at his right hand to be his Adversary..Zech3:1.he cannot help himself because of the filthy garment.before Joshua can ever be established in the place of power,and given ascendancy,before Satan as the accuser can be cast down,these filthy garments have to be removed in principle and effect,the Blood has to take effect.
The Blood,the precious sinless Blood has to come in and deal with sin,the power and ground of Satanic activity-the means of the accusation on the part of the Adversary.before that can be destroy the Blood has to be operative.
................

5solas: Amen. Great hymn. You just made me know it, thanks.

Amen to your OP,remain bless.

Full Salvation!Full Salvation
Lo! The fountain opened wide,streams through every land and nation.
From the Savior's wounded side.
Full Salvation!Full Salvation
Streams an endless crimson tide.
2.Oh, the glorious revelation!
See the cleansing current flow,
washing stains of condemnation whiter than the driven snow:
Full Salvation!Full Salvation!
Oh, the rapturous bliss to know.
3.Love's resistless current sweeping.
All the regions deep within:thought and wish,and sense keeping
Now,and every instant clean!
Full Salvation!Full Salvation!
From the guilt and power of sin.
4.Life immortal,Christ descending,
Lo! My hearts the Spirit's shrine:
God and man in oneness blending,
Oh, what fellowship is mine!
Full Salvation!Full Salvation
raised in Christ to life Divine!
5.Care and doubting,gloom and sorrow
fear and shame are mine no more;
faith knows naught of dark tomorrow,
For my Savior goes before:
Full Salvation!Full Salvation
Full and Free for Evermore!

Johnchike: Simply read Revelation 12vs17. ......the dragon was furious with the woman and went off to fight against the rest of her descendants, all those who obey God's commandments and are faithful to the truth revealed by Jesus.

please can you explain how the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary.

Johnchike: Mary is truly who She is. She is the Ark of the Covenant.(rev11)also She has a very significant role and is the Mother of all christians. Revelation chapter 12 purely proves this. Read and understand REVELATION CHAPTER 12

Where is it written that Mary is the Ark of Covenant? And how is she the Mother of all Christain?

Yes!!for He is my Father,the King of kings!!.

The Glorification in Rmns8:30 is in Past Tense.God is an eternal God.from God's viewpoint,all those who are Justified have ALREADY been Glorified.maybe,on some side,they still have to wait for a thousand years for there Glorification,but on God's side,in His Purpose and His Plan,it has already become History."And those whom He predestined,these He also called,and those whom He called,these He also justified,and those whom He justified,these He also glorified" we have already been Glorified.the history has already been written,and there is no way to change it.since God has completed the writing of our future history and the future events,He is determined to accomplish it for us.

Image123: This your quote is what God predestined us to. Don't add that He predestined us to go to Heaven, or to not lose salvation.

Romns8:29-30,started with God's FOREKNOWLEDGE,which is the beginning of everything.to be marked out(His predestination) is the second step.to be Called is the third step.only after the third step do we have Justification.if we were to lose our Justification and become sinners again,we would put a question mark on God's omniscience..since God foreknew us and mark us out,how can we still perish after we are saved?a person predestined by God can never be thrown into hell and burned like a piece of wood.
It's a simple thing for us to make a decision because we can change so easily.we may change once a day for the 365days of the year.but since God is God,His Foreknowledge and predestination cannot be shaken.He has the Foreknowledge,the Predestination,and the Calling,our Justification is Eternal.God cannot annul Justification without affecting His Foreknowledge,Predestination and Calling.if you take away one ring the other three rings will not stand.whenever our Salvation is lost,God's Foreknowledge,Predestination and Calling are all negated.
In addition Verse30 says "those whom He Justified,these He also Glorified"also He brings those whom He Justified into Glory.the last ring of God's work is Glory.until we are in glory,His work is incomplete.the above verse says those whom He Justified will enter into Glory"UNCONDITIONAL"for there's no condition in the above verse.it is God who Foreknew,it is God who Predestined,it is God who destined us to be like His Son and be conformed to the image of the Son of God,it is God who Called us and Justified us,it is God who will bring us,the Justified ones,into Glory,it is also God who will bring us into the new Heaven and the new Earth to inherit the eternal Glory.

brainpulse: Its also the WORD of GOD read in letters and only understood by the Spirit.
Its God's revelation to man of the past and the manifestation of things to come.
Its life inscribed in the heart that its willing to know and understand God.
its the wisdom that guides the man to the reality of the unseen and gives confident to fulfill the seen.
Its gives in detail the will of God, understanding it, working by it and walking in it.
Its the Word that gives Hope to man, Faith to man, Light to man, Strength to him in face of adversity.
Its the Only Word that exists before it was written.
Its gives understanding only to the simple the mystery of GOD ( father, Son, Spirit).
Its through it all Life will be Judged; those that believe or not.

Great post!!!

Image123: Bigd's write up was poor and filled with error. God wants ALL to be saved, there are actually Bible verses that say that. How can he say that man cannot decide to have faith? Why all the admonition by Jesus to His disciples to have faith and not doubt? Nobody is predestinated to go to Heaven or to salvation. We are predestinated to be conformed into the image of Christ. Stop adding to the Word.

What did i add,abi your Bible no complete?
For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son....and those He predestined,He also Called,those He called,He also justified,those He Justified,He also Glorified...Romns8:29-30.
We have been Called,Chosen,Justified and even Glorified in Christ before the of the world.....Ephns1:6..For He chose us in Him(Christ) before the creation of the world to be Holy and blameless in His sight.in love He predestined us to adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ,IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIS PLEASURE AND WILL TO BE THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORIOUS GRACE.

italo: Rev 12:5: She gave birth to a SON, a MALE CHILD (singular), who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter".

Then read Rev 19:15 to see who rules with an "iron scepter", come back and tell us if it is your "overcomers".

I should start to charge you for grammar class o.

italo: Rev 12:5: She gave birth to a SON, a MALE CHILD (singular), who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter".

Then read Rev 19:15 to see who rules with an "iron scepter", come back and tell us if it is your "overcomers".

I should start to charge you for grammar class o.

Have you ever seen a "Voice"?.
I turned around to see the "Voice" that was speaking to me...Rev1:12.
Or you think the Bible is your GNS 101 abi?

bigd4050: Frosbel, your attacking quite hard on this. Have I debated you before or why so abrasive?

I agree with your first point. If Paul lives a life of sin, he will become a castaway. However, if he does, he would have never been saved in the first place. Those who have tasted the sweetness of God's grace cannot go back to a life of sin, or they were never truly thankful for God's gift in the first place. That is what I am arguing. If someone falls away from the faith, then they never had faith to begin with.

Second, man does not have a choice. God changes mans heart, not man. Man can make choice, but not when it comes to having faith. The Bible clearly states that we were deaf, blind, and dumb to God and his truth. Do we suddenly make ourselves see then? No, we don't. God changes our hearts, our minds, helps us to see and understand. That is why if God wants you saved, you are saved. You may sin occasionally after that, but its never a practice. That is why when you see people fall away from the faith, its because they never had true faith to begin with. They might serve God for a time, but their true fruit always shows. That is why endurance is such an important factor.

So now that its established that God is the one who opens people's eyes and saves them, why doesn't he do that for everyone? Because God has CHOSEN people. He always has. God never changes, right? So if he wanted EVERYONE saved, why didn't he offer up salvation or knowledge for the other nations around Israel? Because he doesn't want all people saved. He wanted all his CHOSEN people saved. That is why God just ordered Israel to destroy the other nations. This is difficult to understand. I expect a lot of fight back on this. But it all makes sense when you see my paragraph above, which cannot be denied. When God wants someone saved, he changes their heart. When God changes someone's heart, does he do it to no effect? No, that person is saved. The one who says God has changed their heart and falls away a year later is the one who is not saved, nor ever was.

For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son....and those He predestined,He also called;those He called,He also justified;those He justified,He also glorified.what,then shall we say in response to this?if God is for us,who can be against us?......who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?it is God justified...Romns8:29-33.
I wonder how those who are called,chosen and justified can lose their Salvation.
@bigd great write up.

italo: Convinced that the woman who was pregnant with Jesus and gave birth to him is not Mary?

I am not crazy.

If Jesus had ascended long before the book was written.how can the woman be Mary?

italo: Rev 12:5: She gave birth to a SON, a MALE CHILD (singular), who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter".

Then read Rev 19:15 to see who rules with an "iron scepter", come back and tell us if it is your "overcomers".

I should start to charge you for grammar class o.

Are you now convinced that the woman is not Mary.before we discuss in detail about the Man-Child?

italo: Be careful how you lie against the Holy Spirit just because you hate Catholics.

Rev 12: 5 says: She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

And you say the passage is talking about the true Church, not Mary. Is it the Church, then, that gave birth to Jesus Christ or is it Mary?

Secondly, how do you know I'm not born-again? And how are we sure you are born-again?

The revelation of Jesus Christ,which God gave Him to show His servants WHAT WILL SOON TAKE PLACE..Rev1:1.
Dude,our Lord Jesus Christ was already in Heaven before this revelation was given to John.
He's not the Man Child(they are the group called the overcomers..Rev12:11)
2.the woman is not Mary,JESUS did not ascend on to Heaven immediately He was born(He spent 33yrs before His ascension) 3.Mary never ran to the wilderness with Jesus,she went to Egypt.
4.Satan have not been cast down by Micheal from the Heavenly places...Ephns6:12.
5.If the woman is Mary where,why and how would Satan be chasing her from pillar to post...Rev12:13-15.

[quote author=Joagbaje]Yes a christian can't go to hell but It's possible for someone who had been born again before to end up in hell and be damned . That's why the bible says to work out ones salvation.

Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


The Apostle was telling the Hebrew believers in chapter 6 that the repentance of from dead works,the faith in God,the teaching of baptism and of laying of hands,of the resurrection of dead and of enternal judgment,are all words of the beginning of Christ.if they have once been enlightened,once tasted of the heavenly gift,once partake of the Holy Spirit,once tasted the good word of God,and once tasted the powers of the age to come,and HAVE THEN SLIPPED,they cannot lay again the foundation and cannot again be renewed to repentance.
If he have to renew his repentance,that means the Lord Jesus will have to renew His crucifixion.
If there is a fallen and backslidden Christain,who was once Clearly Saved and was clear about God's Salvation,for him to rise up again does not require a fresh start.
There is no possibility of crucifying our Lord Jesus again and putting Him to open shame.
Its impossible to renew your Salvation,once you have it it cant be lost.

Image123: "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. " (John 15:5-6).
Let this sayings sink into your ears. Salvation can be lost.

....."IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME" here He's referring to those that are truly save at first.

Image123: they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. They have known the way of righteousness, and the holy commandment has been given unto them. If these are not saved, i wonder what is.

They are "NOMINAL" christains.

Image123: "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2:20-22).
Salvation can be lost, let this saying sink into your ears.

In the Bible Dogs and Sows refer to the UNSAVED ones.they do not refer to the Saved ones.if a person is a SHEEP,he will never perish.

Joagbaje: A christian can lose his salvation.

Then he's not a Christain at first.
Because,God cannot lie..Nums23:19,when He said whosoever believes in Him shall have ETERNAL LIFE,HE meant it.

italo: I didn't tell you it had something to do with Mary *guilty conscience*.

I asked "who is the woman with a crown of 12 stars on her head in heaven?

Is it your mother?

Dude the Bible is not a text book neither is it an hand-out.
The very nature of the Bible is spirit...Jhn6:63.for this reason you must approach/read it with your spirit.the spirit am referring to is the spirit of every born again Christains,unfortunately you are not born again,so its a close book to you and your cohorts.
Because the two(2) women mentioned in the book of Revelation typifies the true Church(Revelation12) and the false Church(Revelation17 and 18)