₦airaland Forum

Firstly, let me start by saying I am sorry if the discussion I had with TheGoodJoe sounded provocating to any1 here. Funny that the person I was actually referring to is not the person that is throwing insults all abt. I mistakenly quoted words of TheSuperNerd as words of TheGoodJoe and that was it. Insults ensued.

Those of us that have been following discussions on this thread know how hot arguments can get at times even at that we have always managed not to throw insults. I have personally been verbally attacked and ridiculed on several occasions but what did I do? I shook it off and still stayed in the argument/discussion. Over time, I have come to understand the personalities of peeps here and know how to relate with them. For eg the way I relate with Bascovanveli is different from how I relate with terzurum5, Joseph1013, safarigirl or any other person cos we have our differences. TheGoodJoe is one of the persons I engage most on arguments/discussions on this forum bc he seems quite knowledgeable abt the game and shows a high level of maturity and also I know how discussions can go at times and yet no insults.

Look, it is not an issue of age, elder or no elder. If it is based on age or status I will not even be on this kind of forum discussing with peeps that are young enough to be my children. I see this as a faceless forum where no one knows hu is who or who is older but still we deserve respect from each other. I am not a journalist nor an NFF official as some of u think here. I only love analyzing the game and have only co-presented live radio shows on Rhythm 93 FM particularly during the 2014 WC.
I am an Oil and Gas expert, a Geologist. I only played football at an early age and I played with some that later played for the national teams. I had to drop bc I needed to face my studies. Apart from the sports section I also frequent Jobs and Career sections where I find pleasure in counseling young people especially those that are aspiring to join the Oil and Gas industry. I relate with youths a lot even in my Church which is majorly y I dnt see it a big deal frequenting here. But one thing is I HATE INSULTS.

I dnt want it to be that it was Icon4s that triggered the atmosphere that truncated the peaceful and cordial ways we relate with each other here.

I am not the kind of person that finds it difficult saying " I am sorry". If forumites here have found that comment I made abt TheGoodJoe provocating once again I say I am sorry. But if any1 choses to continue throwing insults at me then u may have jst seen the last days of icon4s here.

TheGoodJoe:
I beg you, do not vex. I apologise on behalf of TheSuperNerd. You have experience of how tempers run high in football arguments. It does not mean TheSuperNerd meant to reply you rudely.

TheSuperNerd, as much as Icon4s joins us here to share his knowledge, we should know he is our elder.

He might sound superior or make you feel he is belittling us his younger ones but I want us, especially those of us who are regularly here to keep in mind that he is not our age mate in any way. Outside here, we would greet him with all due respect.

Please, no matter how angry you get, or how angry Icon4s makes you, keep it in mind he is our elder.

No problems. Jst one of those things.It is nt unexpected from forum like this. It is well.Thank u real good. U are a real man.

BascoVanVeli:
The goal mouth scramble back heal? It looked good, it was quick and smart thinking but it wasn't special.

Well then. If u say so.

BascoVanVeli:
I guess u wanted me to say all hail Ajayi but nope I didnt see much different. Awoniyi has only played once for his club since the season began compare that to the rest who are actively involved in club football, so yes he is match rusty and will need time to get with the rhythm of things. He doesn't need to dribble he can use his strength and pace to get things done, i can almost bet that on this team he is the best final third passer. The thing is ever since i have watched Ajayi he has not delivered anything special, to me he is like Anthony Ujah.

@ Bolded, even in the last night's game? Ok o. I am not asking you to hail him. If u Check d post u quoted I even mentioned he is not a fantastic player, however, he is not as bad as u put him to be. Atleast u have come to realize that Awoniyi is not light years ahead of Ajayi as u once put it. Awoniyi himself needs to step up his game to be able to face the more senior challenge now.

TheSuperNerd:
@Bolded

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU SIR??

Seriously are you alright?? **smiles**

COULD THIS BE SOME FORM OF AMNESIA OR VISUAL FIELD PROBLEM??

Seriously, I'm concerned.


Please Check "WHO" you were "addressing" again.........

Could he, Sir TheGoodJoe have said "my lines"?? Or have "My story"??

I ASKED YOU IN MY "I'M DONE" POST if you really read through the comments/views of others and understand who and who has "what opinion".

Mehn!!! In fact, this is Amnesia. "You" completely misplaced "two different" identities.

So you've been "looking for subtle ways" to seriously/constantly belittle we "little kids" huh?? Well, guess what, you picked on the "wrong guy".

**smiles**


P.S: No hard feelings I hope. It's just very "surprising".

**smiles**

I chose not to exchange words with you.

TheGoodJoe:
Why make up things I o not know? [b]I watch Japan 93. Although I was too young to follow actively, I watched the game against Argentina. I watched Kanu score and when he ran towards Fani Amun screaming, i told you.

I watched Pele come to watch the two African finalists at Japan '93 finals. So do not tell me I only read of Fani Amun. How many blogs write about him?

3SC players went on strike mostly because of Unpaid sign on fees. We had a big game against Raja. After the settlement of their fees, three days to the camp, the FA called Fani Amun to handle the team.

In those few days, he turned that team into a menace. One of the strikers, scored a bicycle kick from outside the 18yard box. We led 2-1 before Raja Scored two late goals.

NTA televised some of the preparatory sessions of Fani Amun for that 3SC team. Does that sound like someone who just read of Fani Amun.

Are you saying Fani Amun is not a brilliant coach? Or, What is your point? The FA should not make efforts to train our local coaches. Or, the FA should not have trained someone like Fani Amun?

What is your point?[/b]

You watched Japan '93?
Bt u have always said it here on countless times that u started following live from Nigeria '99 AS A 7YRS OLD. Meaning u crawled out of ur baby cut with diapers on ur bums to watch d Japan 93 matches?
U mst have been a wonder kid.

Then also d Kanu's goal celebration of telling d coach "i no tell u" was in d semi-final 2-1 win over Poland and not in d Argentina game.

My friend if ur age is actually what u claim u could nt have watched Japan 93 nor Nigeria '95 so also could nt have watched Fani Amun as a coach. So u really dnt know Fani Amun. U probably read or heard abt what ever u must have known abt him.

Otto Gloria was coach of d 1980 AFCON winning Green Eagles. I cannot engage any1 in an argument abt him bc during dat period i was young and had nt developed d senses enough to understand football. 1980 na d year my Papa buy our first TV sef!

naso2:
my point is, when a team is down by 3 goals , if they have any motivation at all , it will be to see if they can draw level, it is after drawing level that the team can now reach out to win.

we also seem not to see the strength of this Malian team. I am not saying we have a perfect team, but please try and see it from the strength of the Malian team. you will see how mali will handle Algeria and Egypt .

Spot on.

BascoVanVeli:
Awoniyi was not bad but it was easy to tell he hadn't played a real match in a while. Ajayi had a good enough game, his hold up play was upper class but he lacks creativity and a killer instinct. He had 2 goals tonight but if he had made it 3 at any point tonight the game would have been over much earlier. I feel we should play both up top then they can work together with Awoniyi is great at because at this point I don't see any killer assist coming from our midfield. Siasia dropping Sokari and also leaving out Ifeanyi Matthews was an act of insanity.

See my brother we dnt need to b sentimental here cos I remember u once said Awoniyi was light years ahead of Ajayi.I dnt know what u mean by he being match rusty. Awoniyi did nt have a good game bt dat does nt mean he is nt a good player jst dat he was assigned a nt too familiar supporting striker role. Though he is nt blessed with the kind of dribbling skills that Yahaya, Iheanacho, Success, Simon and even Osihmen posses bt i jst love his work rate. If d coaches adopt d 4-4-2 formatn again in our next match he will likely partner with Ajayi.

Junior Ajayi may nt b a fantastic player but he made his opportunies today pay. I may nt b surprised if he doesn't put up a repeat of this performance against Egypt. Another player may jst wreck d Egyptians and dat is how football is.

safarigirl:
I've been busy the entire week, the ghostmode is out of necessity

Ok well done. Jst dat we miss ur inputs.

BascoVanVeli:
Yes great result but our 2nd half was the worst i have ever seen this team play, the score seriously could have been 4-3 to Mali. Awoniyi is very match rusty and we have nothing creative going on in the midfield. I fear o, if we play like this in our next match we will be needing to break out the calculators.

Well, as for Awoniyi, he played a nt too familiar supporting striker role. Awoniyi is nt much of a skillful player and so will find it difficult as a supporting striker. I expected Siasia to have switched to d 4-5-1 formation earlier than he did by substituting Awoniyi and bringing in a midfielder.

Junior Ajayi has jst made a case for a place in Rio if we qualify. His positional abilities has again yielded fruits.I personally was nt surprised at his display today.

safarigirl:
I didn't watch it. That info was based on the reports of a 7-year old.

Lol! Hope u are enjoying ur ghost mode.?

I think the boys did well considering situations leading to this tourney especially d non-availability of key players.

Mali are never pushovers at age grade level and I expected them to come out smoking in d 2nd half.

All our defenders,with d exception of Azubike Okechukwu, need to b caned!

This is jst a team we need to manage to qualify for d Olympics and after we qualify d real dream VI will surface.

All the same kudos to Siasia and his boys for d victory.

adioolayi:
it's half time Nigeria 3-0 Mali.

Of a truth... Mali doing the playing.... they seems to be the better side holding about 57% possession... But Nigeria doing the scoring.. In football.. na goals matter!

Mali doing which playing? Is it all those aimless possessions? Nigeria is playing better.

[quote author=adeyemi2015 post=40519377][/quote]7pm Nig time. Supersport 9 & select. Dnt know abt NTA & AIT.

TheGoodJoe:
Did I say he was the only coach that needed training? I said, he was a bright talent. If I say Osimhen is a bright talent and he needs exposure to grow, am I saying he is the only one that needs experience to grow.

These are two different comparisons. Ur recommendation spans from ur view that d NFA ought to have made Fani Amun the Super Eagles coach so he could have graduated his boys along with him right?

U went further to recommend in retrospect dat he was supposed to have been trained by d NFA. Does dat nt paint a picture dat u are singling out Fani Amun?

U dnt even know this Fani Amun that are talking abt. U probably heard or read abt him.Or even 5-10 mins video highlights. u dnt even know him as d Fumbling and wumbling coach.

TheGoodJoe:
That should not stop the National Football Association from Developing him, Sending him on courses and Seminars. After that, he could have a career coaching a National team in Africa until he is ready for the Super Eagles. He could have had another spell in raising an U17 team and grooming them until the Olympics level.

We should not dump brilliant coaches at the slightest sight of failure. It ends up making our young players fail.

What did the NFA do to support a bright coaching talent like Coach Musa Abdulahi? Our NFF needs to do more for them.

Like as if Fani Amun was d only coach at dat time dat needed training.

TheSuperNerd:
Did you or did you not say "MOST WILL NOT MAKE IT"?? *answer that*

You call that "OPEN MINDEDNESS"?? Haa!!!

Of course Soccer is no "arithmetics" SO STOP MISINTERPRETING MY POINT OF VIEW SIR.

I've always said in my posts, outside this talk, things like, "the future sees us preparing for the unearthing and maturation of the next golden generation comprising top talents from the 2013 U-17 to 2015 U-17/U-20s and.................. including top talents who never starred at U-17s/U-20s level plus from the local league".

The above statement in quotes is "always detailed" with all the variables that will contribute to Nigeria's next players pool of Super Quality Talents.
**the many "dots" after "and" show a continuation of other words before "including" pops up.


OR DON'T YOU TAKE TIME TO READ PEOPLE'S VIEWS ON THIS THREAD?? BEFORE THIS "ARGUMENT", I'VE ALWAYS MADE COMMENTS LIKE THE ABOVE.
YOU DON'T WANT TO BE MISUNDERSTOOD BUT YOU RUN "FOUL" ON THE SAME THING YOU ACCUSE OTHERS OF. #toobad

I'm simply "attacking" your "over-certain" assertion that "most will not make it". NOW TELL ME WHO IS BEING "ARITHMETIC" HERE. YOU THINK YOUR "THEORY" IS AN EVERLASTING CODE IN SOCCER and I'm saying it won't "be" for long... At least with respect to the Nigerian situation.

If I overrate THEN SIR YOU "UNDERRATE" especially with your "MOST WILL NOT MAKE IT" THEORY.

What you term "overrating" is "actually" NOT. It's called "Mirroring the true potentials of some of these kids and making them see that they can be better".

So sorry, I never did "overrating" like you did in your time. #fact

You keep citing global trend.... You keep saying it's a global thing LIKE WE DON'T KNOW??!!!!!!!!

You make this "global happening" the standard for all generations in your line of thinking BUT I REFUSE TO LET THAT TAKE ROOT.
I'M A SCIENTIST AND A MEDICAL SCHOLAR, AND I KNOW THAT THIS "THEORY" OF YOURS CAN BE SHATTERED TO PIECES IN THE NIGERIAN SITUATION.

I GAVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF A "GLOBAL TREND" THAT BECAME OBSOLETE USING PEPTIC ULCER AS A CASE STUDY.

I ANSWERED YOUR "14TH EXPERIMENT" QUESTION. *smiles*



So please stop denying that you said, "....a FEW MAY make it to The Super Eagles....... but MOST WILL NOT make it @ international level......."

Check your words:
-Used "MAY" for "a few"

Interpretation: you are even giving "the few" just a small chance at success. Na wa o!!!


-Used "WILL NOT" for "MOST"

Interpretation: here, you were as certain as "Dawn coming after dusk" or as "you replying this post / failing to understand the post" or even as "Christmas coming up on the 25th of December".

I'M DONE. But do yourself a favor. Admit to your "subtle" pessimism and "sometimes" over-the-top conservatism. Thanks.

**smiles**

We can argue this till next yr bt lets jst drop it here. Our philosophies and ideologies can never b congruent.

Preparing my mind for d Olympic qualifiers tonight.

TheGoodJoe:
As I said, One tournament failure (Third Place) is not enough to drop Coach Fani Amun. He did well at the U17 and when I watched him coach 3SC and made them play amazing in just three days with them, anyone will see the man was brilliant.

To promote continuity, we need to develop our coaches and invest in them.

That 3SC team had Baldwin Bazuaye, The son of Coach Willy Bazuaye in Atalanta 1996.

When the likes of Clemence Westerhoof, Jo Bofere and Christian Chukwu were in d national team set up?

TheGoodJoe:
[b]First of all, you are making comments I did not say to buttress your point. I never said we should use U17 to play in the Super Eagles. We were talking of the Garba boys being able to cope with the competition. Last year, they did better than the top pro teams in Nigeria in the Super Six. They drew with the Olympic National team 3-3. I watched the game and I was impressed with both teams.

You are making it look like they do not stand a chance but it is not true. Just like Coach Siasia's call for Osimhen. If you are good enough, you are old enough. We saw it with Scholes, Pirlo, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo De Lima, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Kaka, Canavaro, Totti, and many more.

Fani Amun finished third in the CAF AYC. I wonder how that is fumbling and Wumbling. There were only two slots and he missed it in the Semi Finals.

I said, the development of coaches will promote continuity. Coach Amun was a brilliant man, I watched a game of his where he coached 3SC for three days I think to play Raja. The game ended 3-2 in favor of Raja despite them camping for a while in Spain and 3SC were on strike because of Bonuses, Allowances and Sign on fee.

After the U17 World Cup Fani Amun won, what steps did the NFA take to build him as a coach in preparation for the U20 World Youth championship challenge?

That is why most teams fail due to lack of continuity. If not, we would continue recording low percentage of U17 winning players becoming stars.

I applaud the NFF for sticking with the coaches but I hope they build our coaches by sending them to seminars and camps overseas with some top coaches. Just like Zidane did with Guardiola.

Also old brains like Coach Monday Sinclair, Coach Westerhof should be invited in camp to help share their knowledge with these young coaches. [/b]

Hmmm u dnt know Fani Amun was nicknamed the "Fumbling and Wumbling" coach?

Ok it happened in 1995 so u are pardoned. It was CAF U20 tournament -Nigeria '95. Nigeria was also to host d WYC later in d year. Fani Amun was d Flying Eagles coach.

The AYC was hosted in Onikan Stadium Lagos and Kano Pillars stadium, Kano.

Nigeria fought in d opening game from 3-1 to draw 3-3 against Mali. We also struggled in our second game bt managed to scale thru to d semis. Ahead of d Semi final game against Cameroun Amun was interview abt d nt so impressive performance of his boys as the press put it to him dat his team was fumbling and wumbling. Fani Amun simply put it that "we have fumbled and jumbled out of group stage and so we willfumble and wumble into d final and fumble and wumble and win the Cup". To cut long strory short Cameroun beat Nigeria 1-0 at Ahmadu Bello stadium, Kaduna, where d semis were shifted to jst to tesy d readinesd of d stadium to host d WYC.

That there became his nickname- "The fumbling and Wumbling coach".

And, a pt of correction Nigeria still boomef d ticket even with 3rd place. However, Nigeria was denied d hosting rights as ot given to Qatar due to cholera outbreak in Enugu (a plot orchestrated by d NADECO movement hu were fighting d then Abacha govt - as an aftermath of anulment of june 12, 1993 elections)

The Abacha govt in return pulled Nigeria out of the WYC in protest of d withdrawal of hosting rights after spending do much money.

safarigirl:
Dunno why the U23 championship is scarce in the news

Anyway, South Africa lost to Senegal 3-1 in the opening game

Last I checked, Tunisia had 2 goals yo Zambia's 0....favorites winning for now.

I no know wetin SA and Zambia go dey find for Brazil as far as football goes

The games were live on Supersports yesterday. Tunisia never led Zambia 2-0 at any pt in d game or mayb u meant 2-1. Its was 1-0, 1-1, then 2-1.
I watched both games.

TheSuperNerd:
**smiles**

You asked a question....... I gave an answer...... Is that deviation?? *smiles*

Just know that it pays to be "open-minded" even though what you say based on "the past" carries some validity.

It pays to expect positive change. I've been in a class where NOBODY FAILED TO GAIN PROMOTION TO THE NEXT LEVEL OF STUDIES. *smiles*

Knowledge of the past is good. It helps predicts certain actions. BUT knowledge is truly power when one knows what facts to ignore.

This is the era of "SOME" and not "Few". Some of these kids have one trait in common, going for them, which convinces me that the "MOST-WILL-NOT-MAKE-IT" theory will come crashing down soon enough. Of course NOT ALL WILL MAKE IT. Some have poor attitude and a "think small" mentality BUT SOME OTHERS ARE JUST DIFFERENT FROM THE REST. You see it on their faces, in their actions, in their words and more.

Players like Kelechi Iheanacho, Taiwo Awoniyi, Isaac Success, Chidiebere Nwakali, Musa Mohammed, Kelechi Nwakali, Zaharadeen Bello, Victor Osimhen, Musa Yahaya, Samuel Chukwueze, Chidera Ezeh, Moses Simon, Godwin Savior, Wilfred Ndidi, just to mention a few (is 14 a few?? Hmmm.....) are players with the "ATTITUDE" I TALK ABOUT..... FOR TALENT ALONE IS NEVER ENOUGH.

They are all members of the combined "2013-2015" classes.




Your "MOST-WILL-NOT-MAKE-IT" theory may "will" fail soon. Not so soon but s-o-o-n. I'm "convinced" about that. Give the kids a break and watch them grow.

*smiles*

Pls dnt misunderstand my point of view. Next thing now u guys will say i have something against the kids jst like d Iheanacho case.I am being open minded here with regards to national team selections. One thing u must understand is many players hu never played any of U17 or even U20 will emerge and if they are better than d ones hu played at those cadet competitions dey will have the edge. And that has been d case world-wide. The problem is u think football development is like an Arithmethic progression. ie if i am better than u at age U17, I will b better dan u when we are age 25. It is nt like dat and soon u would find out. See, my wish is for Nigeria to discover more talents for d Super Eagles and let d coaches give these players a fair trial and d best b selected.
U dnt love these boys more than i do. D difference is u often overrate them a lot of which i was like that too in times past. Some very good players hu never played U17 or U20 will also emerge and my wish is let d best represent us at d senior level.

And pls quit adding 2013 & 2015 Eaglets together jst to add weight to ur argument. The argument is on how many players of 'EACH' successive (discrete) U17s make d senior team. And I am nt saying they dnt have a chance. They may do better dan the 1993 representation. But what I am warning u guys abt is that these progressions are nt automated and arithmetic. People cry lack of continuity in our national team progression; even when d players themselves dnt progress well in their game?

TheSuperNerd:
Several of them actually........*smiles* By Soccer super powers, I'm sure you mean the likes of Brazil, Italy, Germany, Argentina, The Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Uruguay, France,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, right?


But wait o.........

Could the likes of Pele, Eusebio, Bobby charlton, Raymond kopa, George best, ferenc puskas, Alfredo di stefano, Lev yashin, George banks,Karl-heinz Rummenigge, Jairzinho, Luis Alberto perreira, Bobby Moore, Mario Zagallo, Mario Kempes, Johannes Cruyff, Gerd Muller, Vava, Kenny Dalglish, etc, etc, etc have played the U-17s when it only began in 1985!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even Maradona featured in a fifa age-grade tournament in 1979 (the very first U-20 tournament) by which time there was still no U-17 tournament.


Ever since the U-17s began, some major stars of several of the "FOOTBALL SUPER POWERS" were "BORN" as follows:

-Gianliugi Buffon, Italy (1993)
-Alessandro Del pierro, Italy (1991)
-Pablo Aimar, Argentina (1995)
-Francesco Totti, Italy (1993)
-Luis Madeira Figo, Portugal (1989)
-Miguel Simao, Portugal (1989)
-Ronaldinho, Brazil (1997)
-Julio Cesar, Brazil (1995)
-Marcelo, Brazil (2005)
-Iker Casillas, Spain (1997)
-Fernando Redondo, Argentina (1985)
-Xavi Hernandez, Spain (1997)
-Pepe Reina, Spain (1999)
-Thomas Hitzlsperger, Germany (1999)
-David Silva, Spain (2003)
-Cesc Fabregas, Spain (2003)
-Miguel Veloso, Portugal (2003)
-Javier Masherano, Argentina (2001)
-Carlos Tevez, Argentina (2001)
-Pablo Zabaleta, Argentina (2001)
-Juan Sebastian Veron, Argentina (1991)
-Peralta, Uruguay (1999)
-Francesco Coco (or Cocu), Italy (1993)
-Roberto Abbondanzieri, Argentina (1989)
-Abel Xavier, Portugal (1989)
-Javi Garcia, Spain (2003)
-Andres Iniesta, Spain (2001)
-Emmanuel Petit, France (1987)
-Mamadou Sakho, France (2007)
-Kurt Zouma, France (2011)
-Tim Krul, Netherlands (2005)
-Bruno Martins Indi, Netherlands (2009)
-Stefan de Vrij, Netherlands (2009)
-Memphis Depay, Netherlands (2011)
-Rafael da Silva, Brazil (2007)
-Alex Teixera, Brazil (2005)
-Bismarck, Brazil (1985)
-Joao Moutinho, Portugal (2003)
-Ezequiel Garay, Argentina (2003)
-Sebastian Kehl, Germany (1997)
-Sebatian Deisler, Germany (1997)
-Roman Weidenfeller, Germany (1997)
-Koke, Spain (2009)
-Isco, Spain (2009)
-Alvaro Morata, Spain (2009)
-Mario Goetze, Germany (2009)
-Toni Kroos, Germany (2009)
-Marc-andre Ter Stegen, Germany (2009)
-Shkodran Mustafi, Germany (2009)
-Sergi Roberto, Spain (2009)
-Neymar dos Santos Jnr, Brazil (2009)
-Philippe Coutinho, Brazil (2009)
-Casemiro, Brazil (2009)
-Marquinhos, Brazil (2011)
-etc, etc.......


**Come on, do the search yourself**. Aren't you a football analyst anymore?. I'm just a medical scholar **smiles**

The "Elite Super powers of soccer" are indebted to the contributions of some of their U-17 stars as seen above. But also some of them are still growing and bound to perform for these nations' national teams especially from the 2009 and 2011 classes (few of which have made major marks like Mario Goetze who GAVE HIS NATION THE WORLD CUP TITLE in 2014).



--And Yeah, yeah, it's a global thing..... I know but the facts above show that even the super powers benefit from some great players that came through the U-17.

*smiles*

My friend don't forget d root of this argument.Nobody is saying d FIFA U17 WC has nt produced players. Dnt deviate from d argument. From d current crop of players representing Brazil, Spain, Holland, Argentina and Germany tell me d % of players dat came through from d U17. The fact remains dat MOST players from U17 all over d world, Nigeria inclusive, dnt end up making a mark at senior level. If u chose to wish dat most or all of Manu's U17 boys will play at senior level u are free. But I am jst telling u dat only few of them "MAY" end up playing for Nigeria at senior level. MOST will nt make a mark at d senior level.

TheSuperNerd:
Nope.... Wrong deduction. *smiles*

The reason why Fifa created U-17s, U-20s and U-23s is part-majorly because Fifa knows that "numerous talents" existed at all age-grades (and all can't be seen at a senior world cup tournament) as can be seen by a 17-year old Pele @ the 1958 world cup.

Fifa wanted to give opportunities to talents of different age-grades to showcase themselves to the world while discovery is made along the line.

They knew that "naturally" most people won't pick a 16yr old over a 23yr old despite the talent.

That's just it.

Afterall, why don't Fifa limit the Senior world cup to players over 23yrs old alone??

Pele @ 17 ruled the world @ Sweden 1958.

Franz Beckanbaeur @ 20 excelled @ England 1966.

Michael Owen @ 18 did wonders @ France 1998.

Lukas Podolski @ 21 was a terror to most sides @ Germany 2006.

Thomas Muller top scored @ South Africa 2010 with 5 goals and 3 assists @ age 20.

So fifa's reason wasn't that U17s, U-20s and U-23s couldn't play together with their "seniors".

*smiles*

U can c u mentioned those players with decades of yrs apart. So u can c such players are nt born every yr.

And U17 & U23 can play together abi?Then lets take Amuneke and his boys to d CAF U23 tourney.

TheSuperNerd:
And 1993 was how many years ago?? Please, 2013 marked a new era. The Nff U-13 and U-15 programs yielded great fruit.

And more changes are bound to occur with time. The Nff still have flaws but the foundations laid by Maigari as regards age-grade football are gradually being built upon by Pinnick and co. So changes are bound to occur many years on from 1993.

And yes!!!! Under varying degrees of different factors like Temperature, pressure and Volume....... The same reagents can yield different results experimentally.

So that "14th experiment" may still turn out different after all.

You wanna see more than 50% of our talents graduate from the U-17s to the Super Eagles? Then let the Nff apply my "rotation policy" for Manu Garba and Emmanuel Amunike.

***smiles***

I have told u dat the progression from U17 to U20 to U23 to senior is nt a Nigerian issue. It is global. Check d super powers in football, how many of their players everplayed U17?

TheGoodJoe:
The excuse is just returning from Holiday. The truth is that a far younger team spanked them so much, people asked for a review of the development of players in the league.

What of the U23 team they beat and drew with. Were they in holidays too.

The real U23 team was with Siasia in Tunisia for a 2-legged international friendly

TheGoodJoe:
If Coach Fani Amun who was a brilliant man was nurtured to become the Coach Of Atlanta 96, more of those boys would have made it to the Super Eagles. That is just the point. If we use and dump coaches, we are just dropping a pool of talented boys.

I have no doubt that our 93 U17 triumphing team would have excelled in the 1995 U20 if we maintained the team. It is time we develop a team maintenance culture by grooming coaches thst performed well.

So bc Fani Amun won U17 & was promoted to U20(of which he wumbled and fumbled)u are of d opinion dat he should have been promoted to U23 & Super Eagles so he can carry along his U17 boys. I expected something better from some1 of ur calibre. I had to recheck ur moniker to b sure dat this is TheGoodJoe.Hu was Oruma when Okocha was still in charge in d CMF , hu was Ojigwe when Oliseh was in DMF, Kanu was a sub when Amokachi, Mutiu and Siasia were battling for supporting syriker role for King Yekini. Hu was Oparaku when Egwuavoen was d right back. Celestine was able to pin d left back after Iroha retired frm d national team. Sentiments aside, most of those Amun boys could nt easily pin down shirts in d super eagles. With d exception of Kanu(later on) & Babayaro, The other 3 were jst subs almost all their career in d Super Eagles.

TheGoodJoe:
As I said, the graduation is because of the promotion of Coach Siasia.

If we promote coaches, we will see more graduations of such magnitude.

Also, I do not believe in the age difference. In the Super Six, our U20 team made of boys of 18-19yrs squared of with pros of the Pro League and the Olympic boys and did well. It is a thing of coaching.

The super 6 that was a preseason series for d NPFL players hu jst came back from holidaying while it was a selection series for d Flying Eagles hu need to impress d coaches.And mind u it was d assistant coach and U23 team B dat played dat super 6. And yes, age counts alot in age grade competitions else FIFA should have allowed 23yrs olds to play with U17s.

TheSuperNerd:
1). The other MVPs never came through. Including Anderson of Brazil from 2005 and Sani Emmanuel of Nigeria from 2009.

To be fair, 2011-2015 MVPs are still in "early growing stages". Thankfully, you agree.

Tony Kroos (MVP,2007) @ 25 may still be coming up but has achieved some similar success like Fabregas.

Tony has won the Fifa world cup and the UEFA champions league (though he was injured in Bayern's quarters win over Juventus) as a "key player". Statistically speaking, he was picked as Brazil 2014's best performing player by Castrol index, the Fifa-approved rankings/analyser of World cup players.

He also has 3 bundesliga titles to date. Now he's a Galactico. The 9th German to star for Real Madrid.


2). Thanks but truth is I've done that Assignment before. That's why I agree it's a general thing from the past. But the 1993 Nigerian squad was different from the rest between 1985-2009.

Like you said, 5 out of 18 players (NOT 5 out of 23) made it to become full internationals and were successful in a Nigerian jersey.

I could have have made it 6 out of 18, because of Emmanuel Babayaro BUT injury stopped him. He was well on his way to becoming a great shot-stopper. A member of the Olympic Class of 1996 from the Qualifiers to the tournament proper.

Also, Nwankwo Kanu was NOT the only world class player from the class of 1993. CELESTINE BABAYARO WAS EQUALLY WORLD CLASS. Is it because he was a defender?? Come on, every one knows Babayaro's performance index and ratings back in the days. He was a sure starter at the highest level of English and European football.

So, 5 out of 18 isn't a bad yield. And the 93 class defied history somewhat here with this return.

3). Yes, History has a way of mostly repeating itself. I'm a keen student of history but I'm not enslaved by it. I always cite History when making certain points because I love history of any kind but I don't allow it to dictate my primary thinking.

As always you're being a little too conservative again BUT CERTAINLY NOT TOO PESSIMISTIC IN THIS "PARTICULAR" CASE. *smiles*

I have my reservations too because of history but as a young scientist I've been taught to always "stay open minded" because sometimes History can blind one to the subtle changes that emerge as a break away from "THE NORMAL OR CONVENTIONAL".

This happened in the case of Peptic/gastric ulcer being described as a "chronic condition" that its human sufferers must live with for life. Their only solace were long-term ulcer drugs that served throughout their lives.

Gastroenterologists and some giants in the history of medicine had concluded that ULCER IS HERE TO STAY AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS A CHRONIC CONDITION THAT STAYS WITH ITS SUFFERERERS/CARRIERS THROUGHOUT THEIR LIVES. The textbooks were full of this information. A research proven and carried out times and again throughout history.

But then a young doctor in Australia emerged in the late 80s and early 90s who specialised in Gastroenterology as a medical specialty. His name was BARRY MARSHALL and he discovered (alongside his pathologist friend, Robin Warren) that Ulcer can be cured with a 2-3 weeks dose of anti-biotics targeted at the cause of Peptic ulcers.

Before now, Medical history has recorded through countless experiments that Ulcer can't be cured and was caused by undue/chronic stress and other factors.

But Barry and his friend discovered that "HELICOBACTER PYLORI" is the main causative factor for Peptic ulcers (both gastric and duodenal ulcers). Even NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) are indicted as ulcer-causing agents.

AND TODAY, DESPITE THE EXPERIMENTS OF THE PAST, PEPTIC ULCER HAS A CURE THANKS TO "OPEN MINDEDNESS" and refusal to be restricted to what the textbooks and "proven facts" of history said.

Barry and his friend got the Nobel prize in 2005 for their efforts. **smiles**


You asked a question...... What do I expect from the 14th experiment??
»»» Well, the above is your answer.

Also, Thomas alva edison and his workers experimented 999 times and got the same thing.... No light. (Up till this point.... THE FACT WAS LIGHTBULB WAS IMPOSSIBLE). But a "1000th" experiment revealed otherwise.

In science we follow laws and principles that we know have been proven to be true and consistent for all cases BUT there are instances where some facts can be checked and re-checked. We stay open-minded in science, medicine and biomedical research EVEN IF THE EXPERIMENTS WE CONDUCT WILL YIELD THE SAME RESULT AS BEFORE. But what if it doesn't??

4). This is certainly beyond patriotism on my part. I appreciate your angle of things because you remain the "OGA EXPERIENCE" in our midst. You began this journey "live" in 1985. I began mine "live" in 1999 as a 7+ year old. But I've conducted searches and researches about all the Fifa and Caf organised age-grade competitions (particularly U-17s and U-20s with respect to this case). I even spread my research dragnet to Conmebol, Uefa and Afc. *smiles*

But still, History does not always repeat itself. If it were so we wouldn't have conquered OUTSIDE ASIA this year. On 3 previous occasions, we "TRIED AND FAILED TO WIN OUTSIDE ASIA". We even lost here at home in the final in 2009.

We tried again for the 4th time, and GBAM!!!! We DELETED A PART OF HISTORY THAT ALWAYS STOOD UP TO US.
SIR, as respected, near-accurate and self-repeating as history is, IT CAN BE DAMNED AND IGNORED ALSO.

*smiles*

Bros, I share ur philosophy of nt letting History stand as a barier to ur next success. There is a difference btw when u are in control of the next possible outcome of event and when d next possible outcome is still in d hands of those that have been mostly reaponsible for the past negative outcomes.

The question is has anything changed in d manner and ways football is administered in this country.? U run an experiment 99 times with same reagants and get same result and u want to run d 100th experiment with same elements, compounds and reagants and u are 100% certain d result will b different? That result my brother will be MOST LIKELY the same even if u vary little d concentrations of the components involved in d experiment. It is nt even a Nigerian thing. It is same all over d world dat most of d graguates of the U17s dnt progress to d senior team. Look at d 1993 we are making reference to as being d highest progression: 5 out of 18 is jst abt 27% which means dat MOST of that super class still did nt make it to d Super Eagles.

TheGoodJoe:
The thing is to check how many coaches get promoted. For instance, see Lopetegui of FC Porto who coached an age grade team of Spain. As soon as he got the Porto job, he signed one of his boys Oliver Torres on loan to Porto. Today the boy is wearing the 10 shirt of a club like Atletico Madrid.

If the Coaches do not excel, the players suffer. Look at Barcelona, the promotion of Guardiola led to the promotion of Pedro, Busquets, Jeffren, Cuenca, the return of Pique etc. Look at Enrique with Sergi Roberto and Rafinha.

I think the reason the U17 players fail is not because of the players losing form but the National Football Associations do not help in the promotion and development of the coaches.

Look at when Coach Siasia moved from the U20 to the Olympics. A lot of his boys made it to the Olympics team.

Yes Siasia moved a lot of his boys bt nt all his boys. Eg Chibuzor Okonkwo, Ebenezar Ajilore, Victor Aniche and some others were nt in d U20 of 2005. And remwember they were U20 in 2005 & U23 in 2008 (3yrs apart) which makes it a real U23 team. That to me is a perfecto graduation.Matured U23 players and nt parading 17,18,19 yrs olds as U23 which is no fault of d coaches bt due to d gap dat was created in 2011 when we failed at d U17 level.
If u do nt see parading underaged players as U23 as a challenge i do. And that remains one of my major worries abt the dream team VI even whrn Iheanacho, Success, Simon, Saviour and co show up.

And yes coaches move with 1 or 2 particular players as dey progress bt nt with d whole team.

TheGoodJoe:
I have followed the development of young players and I have seen many fail. The reason why good U17 teams fail is because of no continuity in the National teams. This is due to the coaches who raise them not getting promoted.

For instance, The promotion of Coach Manu Garba to the U20 led to the continuity of the 2013 set of players to feature in the U20 World Youth Championship. If it was another coach, many would not make it and people will say the team could not progress.

If Coach Manu Garba was the present Olympics Coach, most of the Dream team would have been the New Zealand boys. When once it was Coach Siasia, the continuity stopped. It is as simple as that.

Just like I opposed the reemployment of Coach Manu Garba. The current U17 champions will lose players because Coach Garba will bring in a lot of his players. I believe the difference would not be too much because Coach Amunike is part of the coaching crew.

Yeah u are right Sir. Lack of continuity has always been a factor. But one thing abt football is players development is nt like an arithmetic progression. How? Player 'A' could nt make d U17 team lets say he was nt good enough, or was nt opportuned to make d screening or 4 whatever reason. Player 'B' makes d U17 team. 2 yrs later, player 'A' was invited to d U20 team alongside player 'B'. If both player same position and player 'A' hu missed out at d U17 was found to be better dan 'B' by d coaches. Will it b fair all in d name of continue to drop player 'A' even though he performed much better dan player 'B' in camp?

The thing is nt all U17 players progress well. And some players dat couldnt make d U17 show up in camp at U20 & performs better than d previous U17 boys.
Besides the U20 is 3yrs older dan d U17. If u field only players from d previous U17 what u'll have as U20 will b U19. So u have to also invite players hu would b 20yrs old for screening and this grp will definitely nt have been U17 2 yrs ago.
Now, our problem has always been how to manage that transition which was one of d problems with d 2015 U20.

Now, on d issue of progression into d Senior national team, if all d players dat graduate from d youth teams make it to d national team it means we will b having a new national team every 2yrs. Some players spend over 10yrs in d national team and with dat it would b difficult for junior players to break in particularly when d senior team has 'quality players'.
One thing,jst one thing dat may favour d the 2013 & 2015 U17 is d lack of real quality in d Super Eagles bt that doesnt still guarantee that most of the above mentioned cadet graduates will pin down regular jerssies in d Super Eagles. Progressing youth players to d senior cadre is nt as simple, arithmetic or automated as u guys think it is. Some of these boys might get senior team call up bt may nt live up to expectation and would b subsequently dropped.
Nt that i am nt wishing d boys well but one thing u must know is playing at d senipr level is a completely different ball game. Check round globally how many senior team players ever played d U17 WC. Check Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, France, Italy and d likes and tell me.

TheSuperNerd:
As if Fabregas is the only one. *smiles*

You forget Toni Kroos of Germany, MVP 2007 U-17......... And his career is still on.

MVPs from the 2011, 2013 and 2015 U-17 world cups can't be rated yet. You have to wait a bit more before you bring out a jury on them.

And I disagree abeg. In and throughout the '90s, we had top quality players who held their own and were rated among the world's best. #fact.

Also, it's true there's a general trend that not all talents from the age-grades make it big on the senior international stage. It's just how life is in general. Not every one will make it the top BUT IF ONE HAS THE RIGHT ATTITUDE, HE WILL BE AMONG THE CLASS OF PEOPLE WHO DOES MAKE IT.

Saying "most" will not make it, is based on previous experiences. That 2013 class most especially boasts about "10 players" who are already on their way to the top and are bound to become "successful" Senior internationals in the near future.

So where does "most" come in here? It should be "some" not "most".

Funny enough, a few others from that class of 2013 (3-5 others) are still in the picture. So you can't just quickly rule out their chances.

Even in the latest 2015 U-17 class, we may see some (4 < x < 12), not few ( 1 or 2), of them work their way up and become successful senior internationals.

You can't keep using the past to predict how the outcome of a set will go. Give room for change and a little surprise. It's a new dawn.

Let's be more sensitive to changes taking place in our football in this second decade of the 21st century with the dawn of another golden generation looming.

And on a final note, Nigeria still got quality players even today. Majority of them are just "youngsters" and still growing. That's the truth.

U mention Tony Kroos. Well, bc of his age i can agree he is still coming up . Excluding 2011 to 2015, So what happened to d other MVPs.
My brother my wish and urs are same dat majority of the 2013 & 2015 Eaglets makes it to d top.The thing is it a global trend. Let me give a little assignment. Go to wikipedia check d team lists of all the top 4 teams in d U17 WC, excluding 2011 to 2015; u can even go way back to China 85. Take a note of d number players and or % dat became full senior internationals.
Yes u can give a little room for change or a deviation from d normal. But i had in times past given dat room for change and a deviation from d normal bt we have been left dissapointed repeatedly.

The only crop among the past U17 that came close was the set that have been adjudged to b d best ever Eaglets which is d 1993 set that produced Nwankwo Kanu,Wilson Oruma, Celestine Babayaro, Mubi Oparaku and Karibe Ojigwe which is 5 out of an entire 23 man squad of which Kanu was d only 'world class' player and d other were jst average.

O u migt argue that we now produce players of d right age or close to d right age and this may change d trend. But, I will tell u dat the Europeans (only continent I can vouch for concerning nt cheating agewise) have nt been spared on this. I mean what happened to d boys dat won d U17 for France in 2001 & those dat won U17 for Switzerland in 2009?

I know u guys will always see me as a persimist. C, when it comes to certain issues that u know dat has always repeated itself, & more so when it is a global trend u jst have to go conservative with ur expectations.

Prio to d 2013 U20.I told peeps here dat Nigeria were nt favorites to win, o nothing wey person no hear. I mean, u cannot be a favorite to win a cup u have never won before! Lets nt even look at d setup of d team cos dat is another topic of discussion.We are looking at history mostly having a way of repeating itself.
Those dat followed the U17 thread knew how i said and stood firmly on it that Nigeria were favorires to win the 2015 U17 WC. I did nt even know most of d players i had nt even watched a full 90mins if their game, jst highlights. But bc history has a way of repeating itself at dat level: winner of 4 previous editions + 3 silver medals. Going into that final, up to d semis u and i plus d international pundits know dat Mali looked d stronger side. But bc Nigeria had won it on 4 previous ocassions d pundits tipped Nigeria to win again.

U are a scientist that I know and if an experiment is carried out 12 or 13 times and u get similar results all through what would u expect from d 14th experiment?

I know patritism is playing a major role in our expectations from the Manu and Amuneke boys plus d fact dat most peeps here have never really followed d development trend of our cadet teams or even those of other teams in d world with so much zeal and passion until 2013.
To those I will say welcome to d journey I started since 1985.

safarigirl:
those superpowers don't have better players than us as far as saw talent.

We should strive to improve on our home turf, rather than run abroad to catch the same guys our flawed system chased to useless leagues.

So how many of the Brazilian and Argentine national team players play in their native South America? And dnt even mention dat we have better players dan d Super Powers. We have to face the reality on ground. We are nt a world power in football and we have to maximise d few quality players we have. As our home turf is nt developed let our footballers sit and fold their hands & wait for d home turfs to b fixed?