₦airaland Forum

Denn:
Kindly read up The Meaning and Method of Afa Divination among the Northern Nsukka Ibo by AUSTIN J. SHELTON’
State University of New York, 1965

Are you aware the Igbo and Yoruba belong to the same language family, Niger-Congo and a branch of that language YEAI group.

Boudiccao:
You saw two similar words used by two different groups just like Okute and Okwuta and you jumped into a conclusion that Igbos got Afa from Ifa.

That is supremacist complex and pseudo history.

Get the Bleep out of here.

By the way I understand Yoruba.

Similar words found in both groups.

Afa/Ifa
Mmili/Omi
Onu/Enu
Isee/Ase

Denn:
Benin became an empire when Oba Ewuare became king, amassed an army and started taking over territories around 1440. He was the first of the 5 warrior kings. His son, Oba Ozolua was believed to have won 200 battles. It was Oba Orhogbua that stretched his empire beyond the River Niger in the east and Ghana to the west. Trade with the Portuguese expanded their wealth and might and funded the expeditions. (SOURCE: BBC website)

The manilla bronzes were brought in by the Portuguese merchants and would have found their way to Igbo land possibly via commerce long after Benin started accepting manilla, not before.

Come on , let's be logical for a second. There is no single evidence Bini ever crossed Agbor...just some bogus map that says nothing about what was met on ground. These your wars you fought who did you fight and which land did you take.

And do you know the true definition of an "empire" ?

Denn:
Lets start from a position of facts.

You claim the Ukwu artefacts were dated to the 9th century

Manillas were found among the artefacts.

The Europeans brought Manilla in the 15th Century

How did European manillas of the 15th century get teleported back to the 9th century?

facts

How did tiny Bini become an "empire ? " What made you an empire.

Archeologists did the carbon testing not my Igbo village. Some of the metal works may have been made in 15th century which is actually 1400s

Boudiccao:
You are beginning to confuse yourself because of your desperation.

Nri is an ancient group and the Bronze works they made are equally older than whatever is found in Benin.
You are saying if the Bronze works belong to the modern Nri, yes! Because it has been proven to be theirs.

Just like the latter Bini works belong to modern Bini people.

They thought only them had civilization because of the way Bini has been overhyped. The absence of a centralized kingdom doesn't mean the people aren't creative. We simply don't like power to belong to only one man....na God ?

When Okoli Ijeoma of Ndikelionwu was raiding Nri-Awka area , after Eze Nri warning fell on deaf ears , a group of army was assembled and called Amakom. These men unleashed bloodbath on the Aro slave raiders and they never ventured that way.....lol

Boudiccao:
Igboukwu is dated 9th century AD and the beads are from Egypt and Venice.


Igbos have embarked on long distance trade.


Europeans brought Coral beads to Benin but the beads in Igboukwu are older, pre Portuguese and are linked to Egypt.


Igboukwu has no business with whatever you were doing with Europeans.
Igbos are your masters when it comes to civilization.

The beads uses by the Igbo and Igala are distinct stone- based found in the bed of Omanbala River. Previously, we didnt use coral beads. Igbo is very ancient.

Denn:
Igbo-Ukwu artefacts have their dating challenged as some of the artefacts have very history-recent items and even contain manillas and beads which every historian knows came with the Europeans in the 15th century.

for further reading; The Journal of African History , Volume 14 , Issue 1 , January 1973 , pp. 1 - 8

The carbon-dating of the artifacts shows they were hundreds of years older than Ife and Bini works. At a point in history some Igbo group smelted iron but the trade was abandoned when the trade became unprofitable. The themes of the metal works bears Nri-Awka traditions.

Denn:
The existence of pre-historic people in present day Igbo land does make them Igbos.

Even the people in Leggie and Igbo-Ukwu cannot trace a direct tradecraft lineage to the pre historic peoples who once lived there.

If the whole of USA inhabitants died today and a group of people moved there after 500 years, will we say the new group had the same american technological progress?

My question is, and i believe a lot can learn from it is this....What weapons were in use by the Igbos who lived in present day Igbo land in the 15th century when the Benin were raiding villages for slaves with modern war gear? Please back the answer with verifiable evidence?

Now that you infer that the Igbos were civilised as at 15th century and traded with people in Asia at that period, can you please assist us with reliable sources to back such claims?

How did the asians ship the goods? Which goods? Which Asians? Which currency?

Please no insults.

Thanks

The artefacts had been buried for a thousand years, and their memory largely erased; so of course their discovery would come as a bit of surprise. But the interesting thing here is that when the anthropologist, Onwuejeogwu, showed pictures of these bronzes to illiterate elders at Agukwu, they were able to identify 90% of them and also told the anthropologists the uses of 85% of them. They wouldn't have been able to do that if the works were not of the same cultural paradigm as the historic Nri. If I took the same pictures to Ife and showed it to Ife elders, would they be able to tell me what 85% of them were used for in a ritual context?

Cc. Denn


Credit to Ajaana Oka.

Denn:
The existence of pre-historic people in present day Igbo land does make them Igbos.

Even the people in Leggie and Igbo-Ukwu cannot trace a direct tradecraft lineage to the pre historic peoples who once lived there.

If the whole of USA inhabitants died today and a group of people moved there after 500 years, will we say the new group had the same american technological progress?

My question is, and i believe a lot can learn from it is this....What weapons were in use by the Igbos who lived in present day Igbo land in the 15th century when the Benin were raiding villages for slaves with modern war gear? Please back the answer with verifiable evidence?

Now that you infer that the Igbos were civilised as at 15th century and traded with people in Asia at that period, can you please assist us with reliable sources to back such claims?

How did the asians ship the goods? Which goods? Which Asians? Which currency?

Please no insults.

Thanks

LMAO; the bronze made by the Igbo Ukwu artists bears Nri themes. Facial scarification like ichi and burial styles of Nri.

Next

Denn:
Can you show evidence from proper research showing the weapons invented by the Igbos by the 15th century? Not myths and hand me down stories but pictures of swords, helmets, metal shields or the likes invented and used by the Igbos in 15th century?

Igboukwu bronze made by Igbo blacksmiths are the oldest and most sophisticated artworks found in Nigeria.

You people thought because we didnt allow one greedy overfes man rule over us we didnt make great inventions. You love monarchy and having one man call the short for you while we want everybody's opinion. We are Igbo !!

Walkee:
you are an idiot for calling me a liar who gives a shiiit what hellhole you crawled out from. Osadebe is a perfectly intelligible word here in Esan and Bini. Pronounce that name to anybody who can speak proper Esan or bini he will tell you it means God avert evil right there where you are standing. Uncouth savages tueeh

List Esan and Bini people with such name anytime in history.... I am waiting

And , yes , Osadebe is NOT a Benin or Esan name. Again , list Bini and Esan people with such name. I will split that your dense brain today.

You use Osanobua we use Olisebuluwa.

Dennis Chukude Osadebay (29 June 1911—26 December 1994) was a Nigerian politician, poet, journalist and former premier of the now defunct Mid-Western Region of Nigeria, which now comprises Edo and Delta State. He was one of the pioneering Nigerian poets who wrote in English.

Walkee:
no Edo man can interpret the name osadebey literally after I told you the meaning. Lol you are a clown. Why exactly will Edo people give government house an Igbo name?

Olisadebe/Osadebe/ Osadebe are all variants of the same name. You are a pathetic liar!! I am a confirmed Idemmili boy from Umuoji and Osadebe is a common name in Idemmili , Ogbaru and Onicha.

I dare you to list Bini people with such same. You think this is kindergarten class?

Nawaa for these Ika slaves oooo

See as they run like weaklings which we always known them as !!

BKayy:
Even at that time, Anambra still needed a cargo Airport. Just cargo if he can't afford passengers.
Obi really messed up. Speaking of pressing issues. The most pressing issue in Anambra has always been touts. Did Obi address that? No. Though neither did Obiano but like I said people will forget whether both of them did after it will be addressed.
As for Poverty, I don't buy that. The main cause of increase in prices of goods and services has always been extortion from touts and Obi did not address that.
As for Education. Obi did well in building many schools but you forgot that it was during Obi's tenure that public schools were handed over to the missionaries resulting in tremendous increase in school fees thus making a lot of people to withdraw their children. Many kids stopped going to school in Anambra and returned to their states example Rochas Okorocha Imo State. It was also during Obi's tenure that school fees in Anambra state University (ANSU) was increased by more than 300 percent which resulted in more than 50 percent students withdrawing.
With all due respect nna, Peter Obi was a disaster and nightmare to the citizens of Anambra on the education aspect

No , you are not here to debate. You are an embittered nonentity who I should ignore. Peter Obi , a "disaster" from an Imo man. Nwokem, gbafuo biko.

No, many kids didn't stop going to school because if school fees. I need a proof if this.

As per University , nowhere in the world is University education cheap. We have the worst university education in the world because we don't invest in education...the money to invest comes from school fees.

Keep running in circle, nonsense!

Walkee:
I've not really seen any Igbo debunk anything. All I've seen is just a bunch of emotional drivel and mismatch fragments of history

No , you have seen it both on this thread and the one of yesterday but you have selective amnesia. Start with this; an Igbo trying to save Ika slaves


Nọnso Uche Nnajide wrote...

IGBO SLAVES AMONG THE ITSEKIRI?

So yesterday, an Itsekiri fellow on Facebook made the interesting claim that his people had many (emphasis on 'many') Igbo slaves. He went further to say that some of the descendants of these Igbo slaves still live in Delta State, and speak a hybrid language which he refused to mention. In the interest of intellectual discourse he probably should have mentioned it, and given interested parties the opportunity to verify or debunk the claims.

As far as the ethnic backgrounds of slaves in Itsekiri land is concerned, this is what the historian P. C. Lloyd wrote in his paper, "The Itsekiri in the Nineteenth Century: An Outline Social History":

Lloyd wrote: "A further change in Itsekiri social structure during the century was the development of domestic slavery. At the turn of the century the king held a large number of slaves, but the number owned by the chiefs is not known. The kingdom must have exported at least a thousand slaves annually. But with the decline of the slave trade, the supply did not cease, and slaves were integrated into the Itsekiri economy. Thus of Jakpa's 5000 people, Burton estimated that 600 - 700 were slaves of Diare. Olomu's slaves were variously numbered at 1000, 3000 and 4000.

"The slaves were never Itsekiri, rarely Ijoh. Most were Urhobo, often being men and women expelled from their communities for serious offences and sold in the riverside markets. Some were given to the Itsekiri as pledges for debts. The Itsekiri usually equate the price of a slave with a puncheon of oil. They assert that they never went to a war to capture slaves, though a favourite method of settling a debt or a quarrel was to seize a man's slaves. Other slaves came through the trade routes from Benin and Yoruba country where they had been captured in inter-tribal wars. Nana's most senior slaves were Ologun, a Yoruba, and Sagay, a Benin."

*Sagay is very clearly a corruption of the Bini name Osagie.

So there you have it. Itsekiri's slaves came primarily from the Urhobo; secondarily from the Yoruba and the Bini; and sometimes (though rarely) from the Ijọ. These are the people in the same geographical area as the Itsekiri and the people with whom they were involved in regular interactions. But our Itsekiri friend went over the heads of his neighbours to look for slaves among the Igbos located farther away.

I was going to just laugh at the story and go on with my business, but I realized there are Igbo people who may not be informed enough to see that this man lied through his teeth, hence my decision to talk about it here.

BKayy:
This is exactly what I am talking about. Peter Obi's achievement are mere grammar for geeks to read.
In few years time it will be synonymous to making noise because they would have wearied off and reconstructed or changed by another governor.
For example. The roads. Was Peter Obi the first to construct them?
Second of all, was he the first to make profit in Anambra stock?
You need to understand. Peter Obi's story ends with our generation.
But in Obiano's case, after 50 years and so people will still point at the Airport, whether maintained or upgraded and say "Chief Willie Obiano built this"

Roads arent the only thing on the list...you didnt see the healthcare and the benefits , education that put us at the very top ? Yes , he was the first to invest such amount(75 billion) that has attracted over 100 billion in profit...thats financial security and confidence on the state. The Anaku general hospital , the Onicha mall , the Agulu lake hotel.

By the way , are you trying to die untop Anambra matter ? Even if you want to discuss these things I need you to be unbiased and sensible.

BKayy:
You've said it all.
Peter Obi doesn't have fore sight. He won't be remembered except by geeks for history purposes. But you see Obiano, Hmmm I never liked this guy but history will be kind to him.
People forget that humans tend to forget things immediately they no longer witness it. Very soon it will be only our generation that will know that during Obiano's tenure, some roads were not fixed and Touts reigned supreme at Onitsha and the entire Anambra because just like roads, people will forget about touts once they are curbed. Only the person that curbs it will be remembered. As for those that it existed during their time, discrediting them with it will be hard because the new generation will doubt that it was not that hard or how we say it just like the story of Bakassi.
This Obiano guy smart oh

Firstly, you are responding to the wrong person , a sworn Obi hater! Can't you see he never said any good thing about Obi....abi you blind.

Secondly , you cant possibly expect Obi to jump in and start building white elephant projects just because he doesn't want people to forget his name. That would be irresponsible , foolish and selfish. Obi dealt immediately with Anambra pressing needs...porverty mapping , education system overhaul , Healthcare infrastructures , intra state roads etc. That is a wise man , there. Lets me smart for once

BKayy:
Let us tell ourselves the truth. If Obiano manages to finish this Airport, he will be the only Anambra governor his name will stand the test of time.
Peter Obi won't even come close to his record because everything Peter Obi did are already being forgotten but Obiano's legacies will stand the test of time.
Peter Obi's legacy are already make belief story because nobody is seeing anything again. The roads will be reconstructed because they have started wearing off but Obiano's own is going to be visible for decades to come.
In summary, make your effort wort it. Peter Obi might be smarter but Obiano is now a legend compared to him. I pity Peter Obi.
In the next 50 years or after Nigeria, when people talk about Anambra state and her governors, the only name that will be easy to remember will be Obiano because when the question "what did they do during their tenure" other governors record will be on grammar because the roads they did have already been reconstructed, agencies changed and others removed but this Airport can only be maintained or upgraded and forever be remembered as what The people of old Anambra state got from their governor during the governors era.
Peter Obi no just get sense. For a smart man, how come he didn't think of something like this?
To tell ourselves the truth, if Peter Obi's political career ends today, it will be as if he never existed. No visible legacy, Nothing.

When the full story of Peter Obi's and Willie Obiano's accomplishments are told then you will understand that Peter Obi will forever be a legend.

1) In education , he outperformed Obiano.
2) In poverty mapping and reduction , his initiatives are still being enjoyed by Ndi Anambra. The poverty mapping that brought infrastructures to Anambra north was Obi's doing.
3) In Healthcare , Obi beat Obiano hands down.
4) In road infrastructures , most of the intra-state roads that made Anambra the state with the best road network were done by Obi.
5) Agulu lake was started by Obi , Onicha mall Obi.
6) Obi singlehandedly annihilated the Anambra political canals; Emeka Offor , Ubah family. The sanity we are enjoying in Anambra today is because of Obi.
7) The over 200 billion in bonds and stocks owned by Anambra was due to Obi's frugality.
For continuity sake Obi brought in Obiano to continue the building of Anambra. Thankfully, Obiano didn't abandon the projects started by Obi.

Boudiccao:
As usual the Ikas or whatever they call themselves are hiding their heads in the sands like Ostrich.
Igbos are now saddled with the responsibility of clearing and managing this mess.

Go to twitter and see plenty Core igbos debunking Reno and his bigoted opinion yet the so called Delta Igbos like Ika which Reno was obviously referring to are nowhere to be found.

I'm inclined to call them slaves but I wouldn't.
Igbos will always be the intelligent and protective Big brothers.

Its on record that at no point has any Ika freed slaves ever summoned the courage to debate us. The call us names then run to go hide...lol

These degenerates were calling us "Igbon" and claimed we were their slaves...lmao. If wishes were horses....

Meanwhile, Obi Ikenchukwu was busy fanning embers of Igbophobic in Ika. But , guess what , his first name starts with "Iken" , the slave name Reno explicitly wrote about....lol

Shameless faggggot king wey no wan marry...busy drilling men's azz

iSlayer:
Smh. This Iken people sef.

Nnaa , eeh, these freed slaves have no modicum of pride.

Because of their inferiority complex they are swallowing Bini faeces with joy....lol

Ishilove, the 50yrs old Kwale hag wey do fin huzbaend tire don tear race! Shameless race of people!

Cc. Ishilove
Cc. @Sufferingboy

Ishilove:
You say what, Ogbuefi onye Igbo??

https://www.nairaland.com/6664091/igbo-slaves-built-great-wall

You and your ancestors have been slaves since time immemorial. Don't quote me again, slave, because you will be ignored.

Cc. Ishilove

You don't have to run away like the coward you have always been , when issues arrive at debate.

You selectively picked a little part of your slave masters text and quickly post it then disappeared in thin air....lol. This shows how pathetic you are....you should have posted everything including the part that says you , Ishilove , and your villagers are the slaves Reno Omokiri was talking about. Reno said, "these freed slaves are found in Delta" ...lmao

SlyDev:
What? That was not what he said

Cc. SlyDev

Then, tell us what he said and post the interview because you were the one that referenced the Agbogidi.

Sufferingboy:
You must be stupid......

Nọnso Uche Nnajide wrote...

Make I just help una with this article written by a true historian. You better respect us , Ndigbo , because we nodey fear face!

IGBO SLAVES AMONG THE ITSEKIRI?

So yesterday, an Itsekiri fellow on Facebook made the interesting claim that his people had many (emphasis on 'many') Igbo slaves. He went further to say that some of the descendants of these Igbo slaves still live in Delta State, and speak a hybrid language which he refused to mention. In the interest of intellectual discourse he probably should have mentioned it, and given interested parties the opportunity to verify or debunk the claims.

As far as the ethnic backgrounds of slaves in Itsekiri land is concerned, this is what the historian P. C. Lloyd wrote in his paper, "The Itsekiri in the Nineteenth Century: An Outline Social History":

Lloyd wrote: "A further change in Itsekiri social structure during the century was the development of domestic slavery. At the turn of the century the king held a large number of slaves, but the number owned by the chiefs is not known. The kingdom must have exported at least a thousand slaves annually. But with the decline of the slave trade, the supply did not cease, and slaves were integrated into the Itsekiri economy. Thus of Jakpa's 5000 people, Burton estimated that 600 - 700 were slaves of Diare. Olomu's slaves were variously numbered at 1000, 3000 and 4000.

"The slaves were never Itsekiri, rarely Ijoh. Most were Urhobo, often being men and women expelled from their communities for serious offences and sold in the riverside markets. Some were given to the Itsekiri as pledges for debts. The Itsekiri usually equate the price of a slave with a puncheon of oil. They assert that they never went to a war to capture slaves, though a favourite method of settling a debt or a quarrel was to seize a man's slaves. Other slaves came through the trade routes from Benin and Yoruba country where they had been captured in inter-tribal wars. Nana's most senior slaves were Ologun, a Yoruba, and Sagay, a Benin."

*Sagay is very clearly a corruption of the Bini name Osagie.

So there you have it. Itsekiri's slaves came primarily from the Urhobo; secondarily from the Yoruba and the Bini; and sometimes (though rarely) from the Ijọ. These are the people in the same geographical area as the Itsekiri and the people with whom they were involved in regular interactions. But our Itsekiri friend went over the heads of his neighbours to look for slaves among the Igbos located farther away.

I was going to just laugh at the story and go on with my business, but I realized there are Igbo people who may not be informed enough to see that this man lied through his teeth, hence my decision to talk about it here.

SlyDev:
Go and watch your obi of onitcha interview.

I have the interview and the Obi clearly said "we are Igbo on reverse migration." So, what are you talking about ?

Cc. SlyDev

Nọnso Uche Nnajide wrote...

IGBO SLAVES AMONG THE ITSEKIRI?

So yesterday, an Itsekiri fellow on Facebook made the interesting claim that his people had many (emphasis on 'many') Igbo slaves. He went further to say that some of the descendants of these Igbo slaves still live in Delta State, and speak a hybrid language which he refused to mention. In the interest of intellectual discourse he probably should have mentioned it, and given interested parties the opportunity to verify or debunk the claims.

As far as the ethnic backgrounds of slaves in Itsekiri land is concerned, this is what the historian P. C. Lloyd wrote in his paper, "The Itsekiri in the Nineteenth Century: An Outline Social History":

Lloyd wrote: "A further change in Itsekiri social structure during the century was the development of domestic slavery. At the turn of the century the king held a large number of slaves, but the number owned by the chiefs is not known. The kingdom must have exported at least a thousand slaves annually. But with the decline of the slave trade, the supply did not cease, and slaves were integrated into the Itsekiri economy. Thus of Jakpa's 5000 people, Burton estimated that 600 - 700 were slaves of Diare. Olomu's slaves were variously numbered at 1000, 3000 and 4000.

"The slaves were never Itsekiri, rarely Ijoh. Most were Urhobo, often being men and women expelled from their communities for serious offences and sold in the riverside markets. Some were given to the Itsekiri as pledges for debts. The Itsekiri usually equate the price of a slave with a puncheon of oil. They assert that they never went to a war to capture slaves, though a favourite method of settling a debt or a quarrel was to seize a man's slaves. Other slaves came through the trade routes from Benin and Yoruba country where they had been captured in inter-tribal wars. Nana's most senior slaves were Ologun, a Yoruba, and Sagay, a Benin."

*Sagay is very clearly a corruption of the Bini name Osagie.

So there you have it. Itsekiri's slaves came primarily from the Urhobo; secondarily from the Yoruba and the Bini; and sometimes (though rarely) from the Ijọ. These are the people in the same geographical area as the Itsekiri and the people with whom they were involved in regular interactions. But our Itsekiri friend went over the heads of his neighbours to look for slaves among the Igbos located farther away.

I was going to just laugh at the story and go on with my business, but I realized there are Igbo people who may not be informed enough to see that this man lied through his teeth, hence my decision to talk about it here.

mktinsight:
Throw in which towel? I deal with large projects. Nobody in their right mind can justify this waste of resources.

You have become a nuisance here.

[quote author= post=103950479]

Airport should be name after Peter no be only Peter dem go add Madinuchu join m[/quote]Why not ? He was the man who transformed Anambra from squalor to a top flying state and made Obiano governor ? Who is Obiano without Obi....without Obi you wouldn't have known Obiano.

mktinsight:
The Umueri airport is very basic and is not world class as some would like to say. If you want to see world class look at the terminal 3 in the small island of Zanzibar, Tanzania:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uLBNjGivpM

The Umueri airport can handle one flight at a time and reminds me of a small airport I have used in the South West United States. Usually the two boarding gates alternate. One is used for arriving passengers the other for departing and they alternate this way.

Since it takes roughly 2 hours minimum for passengers to board a departing plane it means that within the Nigerian context the terminal can handle 8 flights maximum per day. With the average 737 or a220 carrying less than 180 passengers thats less than 1,500 passengers per day and the terminal is basically no different than Asaba or Enugu domestic with a xapacity of less than 500,000 passengers per year.

It remains to be seen how an airport with 500,000 passengers paying less than 5,000 each in airport revenue can sustain its operations. 2.5 billion in revenue is just not enough for an airport for operations and maintenance no matter how small. Once the euphoria dies down, the state government will be on the hook for over 1 billion in subsidy per year plus the cost of maintaining the access roads and tarmac every 15 years plus assets like fire trucks, generators, air traffic control, etc.

Considering that they are failing to maintain the few tarred roads in Awka and Onitsha they better plan to concession it out or give it to the FGN to run.

It's probably time for you to throw in the towel.

cjrane:
Truly, the airport deserves to be named after him to thank him for the fantastic job that he did! Like the Imo airport, Akwa Ibom airport etc.

I'm still shocked at how quickly he built this facility and without cutting corners! My state with a budget that is almost 4 times of Anambra's budget took almost 10 years to build one in Asaba. Not to mention that we didn't build a dual-carriage access way, water systems, dedicated power lines, toll gate etc! I still wonder what Uduaghan was doing constructing Asaba airport for the whole 8 years he was in power! Though i still thank him for building it at all. But now that i know it could be done quicker, i have been wondering why it took us 10 years to achieve.

Airport should be named after the town that had to give up such a large amount of lands or named after Peter Obi for his sacrifice to Anambra. Why would you build a public project and named it after yourself.

Nedu05:
But he told you the bitter truth. The mediocrity is on the Akure airport

If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen!