₦airaland Forum

winner01:
Matt Slick's submission:

I must throw caution to the wind and address what I see as a serious problem of logic in what Mr. Hawking has said. From the above quote he said, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing."

In order for something to create, it must perform an action, but if it performs an action, it must already exist. This is a logical problem. Does Mr. Hawking know something we don't about logic and the universe? Is he privy to information about physics and the ontologically prior existence of whatever-it-was-that-created-the-universe that we don't have? I don't know, and the article doesn't tell us. It is certainly probable that he in his brilliance is able to see things the average person cannot when it comes to the origins theories. I will defer to his knowledge in this area. However, logic is not something he can violate, no matter how smart he is, and be expected to be taken seriously--at least on this issue. Therefore I, a mere mortal, must take umbrage with Mr. Hawking's statement. It just doesn't make any sense and cannot be true.

There are only two possibilities to account for the cause of the existence of the universe: personal and impersonal. This is called an antonymic pair. It is a set of opposites and encompasses all possibilities within its category. Something is either personal or impersonal in its essence. Therefore, we have two worldviews from which we can derive possible explanations for the existence of the universe. Furthermore, if there are only two possibilities and we negate one of them, by default the other is validated. This is logically necessary.

So, we must ask ourselves how an impersonal cause, the universe, can bring itself into existence. Aside from the obvious logical problem I've already cited above, how is it that an impersonal, non-existent "stuff" can spontaneously create? Again, it can't since it doesn't exist by which it would then have the ability to perform an action such as creation. 

But, let's not stop there. Let's take a look at the idea that there is a cause of the universe that is other than the universe and is itself impersonal.

In order for something to bring about an effect, it must have the necessary and sufficient conditions. Let me illustrate. Let's say I want to move a small boulder. It is too big for me to move without a lever. Therefore, I apply a lever to the rock and move it. The necessary conditions to move the rock are 1) my existence, 2) the existence of the rock, 3) a lever, and 4) a fulcrum (something the lever must press against). The sufficient condition is that I must have enough strength. Therefore, when the necessary and sufficient conditions are met, the rock can be moved. But, I am a personal being, and I must decide to apply the lever to move the rock.

In the case of an impersonal cause of the universe, there must have been necessary and sufficient conditions that brought the universe into existence. But, the question is if the pre-existence stuff that brought the universe into existence had the necessary and sufficient conditions, then it would automatically have brought the universe into existence. In the case of the lever and boulder illustration, if a "necessary rock" of "sufficient weight" were placed on the end of the lever, it would spontaneously move the boulder. When impersonal conditions that are both necessary and sufficient exist, the result is automatic.

If the necessary and sufficient conditions that brought the universe into existence were impersonal, then the universe would have been spontaneously formed an infinite amount of time ago since the necessary and sufficient conditions would have existed for eternity. If the universe was brought into existence an infinitely long time ago, there would be no usable energy left in the universe (entropy). But since there is usable energy left in the universe, the universe is not infinitely old. Because the universe is not infinitely old, the theory that an impersonal cause that is both necessary and sufficient brought the universe into existence cannot work.

It would seem more logical to say that since the universe is not infinitely old, that there must have been a personal cause that brought it into existence. Furthermore, Hawking's statement that "the universe can and will create itself from nothing" is incoherent. It is illogical and not possible.

winner01:
I keep wondering why atheists want to create a non existent bridge between science and religion christianity.
Well the reason is not far fetched. No one will listen to them if they didnt back their beliefs with science.
Not that science can prove that creation came out of nothing, but the atheist desperately clings to it cos he realises how irrelevant he and his opinion will be if he didnt talk about science.
Not only does he need science to stay relevant, he also needs religion to stay relevant. This explains why most nairaland atheists swarm the religion section day and night.

In reference to the thread joke an atheist recently created;
https://www.nairaland.com/2827519/comprehensive-break-down-stephen-hawkins
I want to quickly point out the ignorance and unintelligence of the atheist.
He emphasized stephen hawking's quote on why something can create something.
The issue of the quote has already been overflogged, wonder if dude lives underground
Its funny that the atheists dont care to know why such a law as gravity exists. They prefer to build on this premise without probing it.
Why should a law exist?, why should anything even exist?.
Some atheists even go ahead to say "we are here and thats all that matters". And then they want to build every other thing on such premises.
I seriously wonder what they smoke when they pass off such stupid1ty as logic.



Then he made the most unintelligent analogy ive ever seen.
Read the bolded severally.
He says "If I would force stones into a bucket". Meaning "he" would be a cause to which an effect will follow.
Not only has this dude forgotten that "he" as used in the above is an external force, a greater force and an intelligent being.
He has forgotten that he is an intelligent being that added stone to a bucket to quicken a desired effect.
And he expected the mods to take this joke to the front page? . seriously??
To further pile up his woes, one can ask him why there is a bucket, water and stones. Did they jump into existence from nothing too

In the long joke, he further tried to explain something as nothing by talking about gravity.
I wonder what type of person does not know that gravity is something.
The big question is why existence should exist? Why gravity should even exist, and not how things can spring up into existence because of gravity.


Well, the remainder of the thread will involve some submissions from great scientists on stephen hawking's god quote.

Sensible submissions are welcome too.


cc: timonski, vooks, KingEbukaNaija, efficiencie, CoolUsername, SirWere, plaetton, Maamin

KingEbukaNaija:
Hey bro ... a glimmer of hope for you . There are new claims from an ex-NASA worker that aliens have been spotted by NASA itself but the photos were tampered it in order to prevent the masses from knowing .

Just recently , alien ships were spotted in Santiago . I watched the video and had to conclude aliens did exist - confirming my belief that God actually made man in his likeness out of possible intelligent beings He had earlier created .

Readwarn:
You Can't Explain it cos You self don't understand.
Cos You can't make sense of what You're reading.
You can't get it straight,like a riddle that can't be deciphered Except by the Almighty God.
No matter how one cracks his head,At end of d day you'll have to believe in d existence of God.

Readwarn:
As a fan of physics, Is there any explanation(like an hypothesis) to Why and How the Self creation occur.
Like What Induces/Causes this self creation?

Readwarn:
if I get u right You mean the human mind is the so called "self created programs" of which humans can choose from preferably.

analice107:
Do you hear how stupid you sound? You are very intelligent right? prove that God does not exist.


the stupid idea that Satan puts in ur head to make u believe that if you say God doesn't exist that makes you intelligent is the stupidest joke I have ever come across.

IFENESS, YOU OF ALL THE FOOLS I HAVE MET HERE, ARE THE CHIEFEST OF ALL THE CLOWNS.
SERIOUSLY, YOU ARE ROYAL JESTER.
Stop this ridiculousness.

Readwarn:
what do you mean self created programs?
I bet You don't understand what it is urself.

OFFICIAL336:
Deep down you, u knw u are deceiving urself. We tried all those shit and got tired becos the only truth is that ur soul craves for a union with its creator. For every action there is a cause (according to physics). I don't care wht u call that cause, that cause is wht ur soul craves to be at peace with. That cause is what I call God. Therefore, there is GOD.

Annunaki:
Arrogant expression of ignorance.

analice107:
Only your Anunaki is God right? confused guy.

Readwarn:
Who do you think this programmer is?


And Physics can't explain everything,not how the human mind works if so it shld have devised a way of reading human mind.
See I'm also a big fan of Science,physics especially But that shldnt blind anyone from believing in God.

Readwarn:
I see You believe in Science (physics)so much.But How does Physics Explain this?
Don't be deceived by some fictional movie like matrix.
It doesn't work that way.

Readwarn:
I see.

Sorry For The Random Questions But What Do You Think Your Fate Is When You Die.

Readwarn:
i guess that servant mentality is ur exact problem.
Servant is simply someone who "serves" his master(God in this case).as opposed to a slave.
Sincerely answer this question also, Have you prayed b4 OR ever felt the need to pray b4 in your life??

Readwarn:
That's rather Ironical.

Readwarn:
Seriously? I Can't Just Imagine Someone say this, Do You have conscience at all?

Readwarn:
Do You really mean this?
















if yes,
How Do You Sleep at Night?

unphilaz:
OK which intelligent consciousness caused the trees etc to exist...since you and me are intelligenet consciousness and can cause change to come from our minds?

unphilaz:
Good so you and ifeness agree that there is a superior CONSCIOUSNESS called ANU! Now we have a confirmation to the above topic that IFENESS(AN ATHEIST) accepts that there is an INTELLIGENT CONSCIOUSNESS. So now, let us hear from any atheist who accept inanimate existence!

damola1:
pussssy, fccuk up man, always reporting to the pastor and family until you lost your livelihood! stupid mofo!

A man must always have drinking friends, cool friends.. it's better to be feared than loved!....

Why do people always mis interpret religious people for good personality standards?...

The people that are mostly religious in the first place are religious cos, they are trying to fix something!... trying..!!!!!!...

I don't like religious folks.

Also, you want to have a marriage and you cannot invest time on it.. you can change jobs.. but a marriage... man...

Only lesson I learnt from this is not to tolerate bulllshit from the onset, you don't want something change it.. include human being... life is short.. enjoy it!..not tolerate it.

yanabasee:
OP, I am a christian and I believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ.... The Bible was written by different people with different point of view but quite very relative... I've checked most of your quoted portions and am sure u didn't read the story very well... Read inbetween the lines and you'll understand the Bible.

Christ came as a saviour and he died to set us free... I gave him all of me.. I consecrate my self unto him...

May he Forgive you! Amen!