₦airaland Forum

MinorityTribe1:
The so called six zones are just political tools, Apart from Nigeria where else have you heard of "South-South"? In the past both the so called South East and South south are Eastern Nigeria. If the Igbo are angry with this then they aren't really serious about Biafra. Kanu always claim he is uniting Biafra land and all the South east and South south belongs to Biafra. So why should you be angry while Major projects is being done in Calabar and Port Harcourt. Is that no longer Biafra land?

Stop speaking from both side of the mouth.

SS is SS and SE is SE, they are not ethnic groups. North is one, then why was Abuja( NC) , Taraba ( NE) and NW captured in the plan, why was one not made to stand for the three, after all its one North.

tope56:
manbilla hydro is not meant for a particular region it is for all Nigerians Lagos-Ibadan and Calabar to port-Harcourt is going to be ply by all Nigerians. Lagos is ecomcomic nerve center of Nigeria couple with the fact that it has highest population in Nigeria so obviously Lagos need new standard rail and Abuja is capital of Nigeria.

If we follow this your logic. Then the FG should come and site all those projects in SE, since the location does no longer matter. All Nigerians can always come to SE and benefit from it.

I had long discovered that when it comes to Igbo issues, then average Nigerian becomes irrational, and all sorts of warped logic is employed to justify their demonic machinations.

Did Lagos become the commercial nerve center by being starved of investments and infrastructures to bring about economic activities by the FG? Was Abuja not a semi arid bare land before infrastructures were poured into it by the FG?
Are you saying because SE had always been starved of investments by the FG, it should now be used as a valid excuse to Short change the region further by this present administration?

bankyman:
I think the SE not being captured in this spending speaks a lot about the country and the government (Good or Bad). Because there is a region called the SE means that when we spend on infrastructure they must be captured? But yes they should....

Looking at the spending, there is nothing in which the SE is asking for that is new? They are all projects initiated before this government, abandoned and now its being looked into to be revitalized and completed. If there is no project to be completed in the SE, it means their leaders have been playing with their future and they were dancing to the rhythm played by the bad leaders blindly or this government is reaaly bad and trying to sideline them.

So whats the noise for? Is it that none of the project wont benefit them? They claim to be the commercial capital (Topic for another day), so if they really are what they say they are, they should be the ones jumping for joy as it means quick and super access to raw materials across the federation.

Now few questions for Ndi Igbo

1. Why the support for GEJ who left you in this impoverished state?
2. Why support for anything anti PMB govt. yet cry for attention for him?
3. Why can't there be a regional organisation from all the SE states with the aim of putting infrastructures across the region?
4. Why situate most of your organisations in Lagos when you could have developed the SE and get the FG looking at the region?


My piece of advice is that Ndi Igbo should look inwards to come out stronger, you claim to be the best and have nothing to show for it. Take a cue from Lagos, if you develop yourself others will come looking for you (you didn't develop Lagos, all you guys did well was to swell the population with people who prefer substandard in bulk than little in quality, I'd really wish you guys got Biafra and leave). One of the reasons this borrowing is devoid of the SE is because there is nothing there to boost the economy really (not completely absent though), Population you don't have, resources is scarce, infrastructure too is devoid, you are intolerable to visitors, and the best brains are either in Lagos doing good or bad and the rest committing one form of illegality or the other thinking they are growing the economy.

Really I ask and I beg for answers What Is There to Invest In In the SE?

N.B

Lagos = ports, diversity, good governance, self dependency, "Oil"
North central, North West, North East = Population & Large expanse of Land
SS = Oil
SE =

Long load of trash. Can't believe this so much faeces can occupy just one skull.

COMPAQ:
While projects should not be sited in a zone because of political reasons or federal character the only issue I see with the list is why calabar port Harcourt real is there. I don't see the additional commerce this will bring. Port Harcourt - Aba- Enugu might have made more sense as food produce from Benue/Kogi, which is Above Enugu could move into the south east and south south zone easily.

Also id have liked to have seen $1bln for either 1000MW solar (can only be in the north) or wind to reduce our dependence on gas.

To be fair, SE doesn't have any major project in the pipeline of recent that had needed to be done asides roads and there is no road anywhere in the country on the list. Not fully convinced this is the best use of $30bln Sha.

What do you mean that SE doesn't have major project in the pipeline? Whose job is it to make sure the region has a major FG project in the pipeline? So because the region has been marginalized for long, (which is why no major FG project is going on there) it is should now be given as an excuse to continue shortchanging the region?

HonabFaj:
The 7 big Wins project valued for $10M is for the South East,not including SE in the borrowing plan doesn't mean that there won't be project in that region

Do you mind explaining yourself better.

MinorityTribe1:
So calabar and Port Harcourt no dey South East again? Good to know the Igbo's have finally accepted their place and the artificial Geopolitical zoning. People can be mumu sha.

You are not as smart as you think you are. So because Hausas are spread between NE and NW, NW should now be excluded in distribution of infrastructures, since NE already cover them, or does this your demonic logic only work for SE?

Handsomecole:
I am proudly Igbo and from the Southeast. But we deserve every treatment we get. We were too foolish and our leaders were too selfish and corrupt even when we enjoyed political dominance under 16 years of PDP rule.
Now under the APC we are too proud to work with the present Government and too insultive to the President.

Yes we have laws that mandate equal development in all regions but only God Almighty is not bias.

We deserve what we get.

Do you mind explaining why we don't deserve fairness and Justice from this current government?

obailala:
Infrastructural Projects ($18.3 billion)

- Mambil­la Hydro Electric Power Project ($4.8 billion)

- Lagos to Calabar Coastal Railway Pro­ject: Calabar to Port-Harcourt Segment ($3.5 billion)

- Lagos-Kano Railway Project: Lagos to Ibadan Segment ($1.3 billion)

- Lagos-Kano Railway Project: Kano to Kaduna Segment ($1.1 billion)

- Abuja Mass Transit Rail Project Phase 2 ($1.6 billion)


Balance of $11 billion Breakdown

- Eurobond ($4.5 billion),

- Federal Govern­ment Budget Support ($3.5 bil­lion)

- Social Support for Educa­tion and Health ($2.2 billion)

- Agriculture ($1.2 billion)

- Economic Management and Statistics ($200 million).

Another needless thread to wail endlessly; the slavery is all in the mind and many have taken to wailing as hobby.

A very quick look through the list shows the projects are purely projects that benefit Nigeria as a whole, but to some, every single thing must be sectionalised for it to make sense to them. One begins to wonder whether the 3000mw of electricity that would be produced from the all important Mambilla dam project will be distributed only in Taraba state. One also begins to wonder whether the all important Calabar to Lagos Rail would not also be used by Nigerians of south eastern origins. Meanwhile this rail connects the Calabar Seaport and the Onne Seaport in Port-Harcourt and the rail goes through the industrial city of Aba; I never knew Aba had been erased from the South-East geopolitical zone of Nigeria. Or maybe, when it isn't convenient for wailing purposes, Aba can be regarded as South-South.

Anyway, if wailers don't wail, who will?.. Nonsense!

You have a demonic mind.

webkwin:
You Igbos are one hateful lot. If na ur brothers full the list, e no go be igbo tribal forum shey? All of una just dey vex say upon all una boasting yoruba still fine pass una wella. Ndo o no be anybody fault.

The joke is on you and whatever Afonja that compiled this list.
In what planet is Dbanj more handsome than Flavour/ Peter, Kiss Daniel more handsome than Tekno, DJ exclusive more good looking than Lynnx, Ajibade better looking than Ekubo, Akindele more goodlooking than Phyno?

Ofcourse, in an Afonja planet where "monkey no fine, but im mama still like am".

Anyway, this thread is OP opinion, which he/ she is entitled to.

faitheverest:
Mike na uzuakoli na bro

You have time for the Afonja( Yoruba man)claiming to be from Umuahia.

fratermathy:
Don't assume stuffs just because someone's name or surname. Justice Inyang is a full blooded Oron man.

That name, Okoro, is used by most tribes in the South East and South South. You find it in Edoid languages/Urhobo/Isoko/Itsekiri/Ibibio/Igbo, etc. The funny thing is that the meanings are not far apart in all its usage and no one can really trace its origin. It is generally taken to mean "man" in some Igboid languages.

In Edoid languages, including Urhobo & Isoko, it manifests as Okoro and Umukoro and the meaning is contested. It can mean man, fool, etc, depending on context of usage. Another name like this is Ekeh which is shared by Urhobos and Igbos but meaning separate things entirely.

My point is that you shouldn't assume someone is Igbo because s/he bears Okoro as name or surname. That name is used far and wide by various ethnicities and NO ONE can categorically trace its etymology to any group.

There is no denying the fact that "Okoro" is mostly used by Igbo speaking people. It's always on rare cases you see non Igbo speaking people answering that name.

Go to Facebook and type Okoro, and check the ethnicity of the bearers, it's not even a. argument.

Okoro is not a typical non Igbo name. Never!

AkinPhysicist:
You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?.You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

Afonja, why not show me.

AkinPhysicist:
You still don't know how to quote. Learn it - it should not take more than a few minutes.

PS:

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that the Ogba's Bini origin claim is false?. You said you have it and now back up you words with documents.

Where is your independent "third party" research evidence that proves that Ogba people were not always Igbo speaking, but were Bini speaking and thereafter had Igboid language forced on them?

Where is it?

rigarmortis:
brother. I understand your arguments and some of them have very intelligent questions.

but trust me bro you are out of your depths here. just leave the matter. it is more political than academical. I'm not from ogba, but I'm from around there. and everyone knows the truth. you can be Igbo when its good. but when things are being shared and Igbo has gotten a slot...... claiming another tribe to get an extra slot for your "tribe" is nice.

amaechi proclaimed himself an Igbo man ......in fact he said...."to the core" when campaigning.

Edwin Clark also said that south south slot for president won't go to igbo.....when peter odili tried to run for presidency.

so bro....its something anyone not from that area will find hard.....

but as for the truth...... it lies inbetween the stories.

the Benin migration might be true...but it wasn't a cultural change....in fact the aforementioned kingdom had a huge impact on migration around rivers, bayelsa, asaba, anioma, onicha areas..... I mean onicha ugbo and all other onichas...in delta state..including the ones in ebonyi and all over SE....plus the most popular....the one in anambra....all due to migration by people running from Benin expansion, benin tax, and igbo citizens under benin rule wanting to form a new sovereign town to free themselves.

not that this doesn't only apply to Igbo...there are also pure Ijaw...and benin influenced ijaw people of probable Benin citizenship.... forming new towns....

isoko , urhobo and other edoid languages also did same.

so. yes there might have been a migration .....but that is not the reason for a cultural shift.........


its hard for me to explain some stuff here.....


and you started the questions from an academic and knowledge seeking point of view......why descend low to insults.

You would be extremely naive, if you think the Afonja interest in this topic is any thing remotely close to academics or quest for knowledge.

24SEVEN:
[sub][/sub]

Two points stand out from the bolded.

1) Prior to the coming of the British, no one was Igbo and
2) We all became Igbo because the white man assume that becos we all say "bia" as come, then we must all be under a single identity.

I dare say the british didn't do a holistic job, they were only interested in the ease of colonial administration and simply rounded up ethnicities into a whole number like it is done in secondary school mathematics. A typical situation is the case of the ekoi, ejagham, efik, ibibio, and the many ethnicities of cross river and akwaibom being grouped into one huge family basket by the british when most are mutually unintelligible.

I wish to state for the sake of clarity that Ikwerre and Ogba isnt mutually intelligible, ikwerre and ndoki, ekpeye, ngwa, izzi and all the languages listed are not mutually intelligible. Same with Ogba and the various languages. What they have in common are borrowed words and the primary source of those words are through slavery and trade. Those borrowed words that stuck arent sufficient enough for the british to tell who is who and what.

The british, if made to recolonise Nigeria today, with what they now know, will do a more encompassing breakdown.

I must point out that many of those ethnicities lumped together/identified as Igbos have come to accept the new identity and have forged on as one. Also a handful who do not feel a connection, sought ways to opt out of the forced Igbo union and were able to seize the opportunity that presented itself in 1970.

It is very unnecessary for those ethnicities that now constitute Igbo to resort to blackmailing those that declined by saying because of the Biafran defeat, because of the discovery of oil etc. Look at Oyigbo in Rivers, they feel a connection and they clearly identified themselves as Igbos. Same with Egbema in Rivers. Anyone who isnt interested should be left alone for good as they were never actually igbos in the first place.

1. You are wrong. While the British wanted ease of administration, they also needed proper documentation of groups for easy governance.

Small groups like Andoni, Ogbia, Epie, Ogoni, etc were all well documented and classified as independent groups when they could have lumped them with Ijaw or Igbo.

The British never assumed we had same identity, they knew we all saw each other as distinct people, but as neutral observers, they couldn't help to notice that we spoke dialects of same language and had shared cultures. They also knew our differences, they knew we had different origin stories, infact the British thought we were an enigma and were disillusioned by our origin stories, that at a point, it made no sense anymore to them.

2. Ikwerre, Ndoki, Ukwuani, Ogba, Onitsha, Owerri are mutually intelligible. Infact, a comparative study had been done on Ekpeye, Ukwuani, Ikwerre and Owerri languages, the only outstanding one there was Ekpeye which had the least intelligibility because it retained many proto Igbo words that the rest had lost.

Even at that, Ekpeye scored a cognation score of 76.3% with Onitsha language, which means they belong to same dialect cluster.
Ukwuani which is close to Ogba language scored a cognation score of 91.9% with Onitsha Igbo. Now understand that the closest SE dialect to Ogba is Ohaji,?and I'm sure Ogba will score a cognation of up to 97% with Ohaji or Oguta.
A cognation score of 91.9% isn't borrowed words, it's almost the entire language.

And they had nothing to do with slave trade.

Words rooted in Antiquity, tradition, customs in Ogba are all Igbo words. These transcend slave trade, which by the way you are yet to explain how it came into play here. Places like Bonny and Opobo were Igbo slaves changed the language demography still retained non Igbo language of non Igbo speaking people there. They still have Ibani language there. Ogba was never a slave town, so I fail to see the relevance of slave trade in this our discussion.

Words like ali for land, elu for sky, Eze ali for chief priest, Nkwo Eke, Orie/ Oye, Afor market days. Okoro for man, Ishi/ isi for head, Oma for good, the reverence got Yam( Ji) and Kolanut ( Oji), the belief in "Chi", Mini/Mili/Miri/Mmunyi for water, Ndu for life, Onwu for death, Madu/mmadu for human, these are the core of the Igbo speaking people, and they couldn't have been borrowed by Ogba people. No body throws away his heritage to borrow those of other people like that.

These things had been studied by linguistics over years.


2. Maybe, the stigma of the civil war loss and the economic and financial gain of New crude oil wealth made the Igbo tag unattractive for some who chose to fly solo.
But this must be clearly stated and all attempts to revise history as we know it, as you tried to sell the funny slave trade story making Ogba Igbo speaking should be stopped. I don't think you have ever seen Ohanaeze forcing any solo Igboid group into Igbo tag, it's always a topic discussed on online forums. Many of my friends in Afor Igwe are not even aware of a place called Ogba.

Oyigbo people decided that crude oil was not enough to deny their not so blessed with crude oil kins in Ukwa East and West of Abia state.
Three Egbema villages in Rivers couldn't deny the rest Of Egbema in Imo state.
Ogba had no problem denying their Awarra kins in Ohaji Imo state.
Everyone is usually left alone, until we start hearing that "Igbo forced Igbo language on us" story, then we had to come out and debunk them.

AkinPhysicist:
You looked it up? where?! In the Ipob book of revisionist history? Otherwise provide your source or stop been silly. You are just making conjectures based on your understanding of culture which is largely driven by your Igbo-centric Ipob ideology. I have no problem with conjectures however you seem to be driven by a blind 'religious' certainty. The only way, you can be this certain is if you were there, several hundred years ago when these events took place. Since, I can easily prove that you were not alive at the time, then all you are blowing is smoke without fire.



Its funny how the Ogba people account of their history agrees with this Yoruba man's hypothesis. I wonder who is really out of their depths here?

1, The history of the Igbo speaking people had long been documented by the colonials before things were politicized.
You are just a bitter Yoruba man whose opinion on this issue means nothing, and I do hope you know that,

Even today, in the heart of Bini kingdom, we have an, Igboid speaking Igbanke and other smaller towns. Igboid speaking people had always been part of Bini empire, but it will be ignorant for them to start claiming Bini or to insinuate that far away SE tribes forced their Igboid language on them.
The language they speak is their identity, it's the true reflection of who they are and have always been.

2. Ogba people account agree not with your trash posts here. For one, you had propounded that Akalaka name could have been originally Bini, something not even the Ogbas themselves will come up with.

The Ogbas contend that their language was turned Igbo by Igbo imposition of Igbo language on them and by interaction with Igbo people. These two I had debunked, only for you to start making arguments the Ogbas themselves don't make on this issue.

AkinPhysicist:
I wish I could ask Akalaka the same question. But I understand he died several centuries ago - which leaves us with no other options than to send someone to the other side to question the great Ogba ancestor. Are you willing to volunteer?



Again, for the umpteenth time. Cultural assimilation does not require an 'empire.' All that is required is a dominant culture and language that could (under the right social-cultural/economic forces) lead to the extinction of not so dominant tribe. You in one of your post have even bragged about the INFLUENCE of the Igbo tribe in that general region.



We are both presenting hypothesis since none of us was there when the Ogba community was founded several centuries ago. The difference between us is that I have the intellectual humility (and honesty) to accept this. You on the other hand insist that you claims (that run counter to those of the Ogbas) are absolutely true because of course you were there hundred of years ago when the Ogba community was founded.


Yet the same Ogba people makes it clear that they are Binis originally and not Igbo so stop splitting hairs here.



Obviously still deeper than that dirty Aba gutter you have been trying to fish from the whole day.

1. Another irrelevant drivel. Akalaka name leaves no one in doubt the language he spoke, the name of his son Akpa Ohia solidifies it more.
No one need to resurrect Akalaka to answer a question that already answered.

2. Cultural assimilation doesnt require just empire, it requires other factors that Igbo speaking groups lack, which is why there are not one single assimilated non Igbo speaking group in SE. They all turn bilingual. Igbo republic and democratic nature accommodates diversity and it's clannish umunna unit, makes assimilation impossible.

3. Difference between us is that you have zero knowledge of cultural factors at work in the region in discuss. You are as ignorant as they come, which explains why you are always making bracket statements. You are far from an honest party. You are a scavenger.

"Calm down son. I was quoting your Ipob sister who could not believe that someone would bear an Igbo name and still claim to be of Bini origin. This is what happens when you jump on quotes without taking time to grasp the context. The Ogba people might have been Edo speaking but due to culturally assimilation their Edo dialect became extinct. This is a possibility that even you as Igbo-centric as you are cannot dismiss without stepping into the dung of intellectual dishonesty".

No, that is not a possibility, as there was nothing whatsoever to make Ogba lose their language. Ogba was dealing with groups it was equal to, she was dealing with Aboh, Ekpeye, Egbema, Ndoni She was larger than some of these groups and there was no reason whatsoever for it to lose its Bini language, as factors that could lead to that is non existent in Ogba location. This is why all small non Igbo speaking groups in Igbo area of influence are non Igbo speaking or at worst bilingual.
If you say otherwise, then provide the factors that led to Ogba speaking Igbo today.

And no, your example was irrational and I sure you see that now.
No Igbo person is surprised with Igbo speaking person could claim Edo origin, when we have them right in Onitsha.


"So (based on the above) one can argue that since the Ogba people do not have either Bini or Igbo in their name OGBA common sense would tell you that they should be allowed to choose their origin story without been demeaned and patronized. They have chosen Bini as their origin - I dare say let them be. "

Ogba is not a Bini word, it's a word many "Kwa" people have in their word list. We have many towns with the prefix "Ogba" in SE.

Ogba has never been stopped from peddling their irrational Bini stories. No Igbo person will force Ogba to be Igbo, we are too big for that.

But Ndiigbo will never accept Ogba insinuation that Igbo bible teachers and their interaction with Ndigno in Eastern region, was what gave them the current Igboid language they speak. We will always refute that claim as falsehood.
We will not accept the Ogba people painting us as internal colonialists who colonized them, and changed their Bini culture and language, as such never happened.
The Igboid language they speak will ever judge them and render their Bini story useless to any rational neutral observer, as Ndiigbo were never empire builders.

"Don't be silly - nobody knows with certainty how the Ogbas were assimilated (if they were as they determinedly claim) by the Igbo culture. The absence of written records leave us with nothing more than hypothesis either for or against. The best thing we can go by is the oral tradition of the people themselves - in the case of the Ogbas their tradition is that of a Bini origin not Igbo. Now, since, you agree conquest is not the only possible cultural vehicle towards assimilation, then you have (by your own words) debunked your earlier claim that it is impossible that the Ogbas were assimilated by a non-conquest tribe like the Igbos. Also, just because one tribe survived a particular type of assimilation does not mean that some other tribe would also survive - cultural forces are complicated and can be very difficult to predict".



You failed so far to show how Ogba was assimilated by "Igbo", bearing in mind that there was no group known as Igbo was in existence as of the time in discuss.
Ogba couldn't have been assimilated by a non existing entity, ie "Igbo". This in itself nullifies your argument.
You are completely out of touch with the issues you are dabbling into, as you know next to nothing about the cultures of the people in discuss or the complexity of their interactions.

Ogba could only have been assimilated by Aboh, their neighbors, but historically we know this never happened as Aboh' ( Ukwuani) and Ogba were in constant warfare.

Ogba men like Francis Ellah believed Ogba had always been speaking their current Igboid dialects since antiquity, even though they migrated from Bini.
Modern historians are beginning to understand that Bini empire could have had Igbo speaking people inhabiting it, from where men like Akalaka, Ezechime, etc migrated from.
Conquest wasn't how Ogba acquired its current language. And it couldn't have been via mere interaction with the Abohs, as they were enemies.
Rational conclusion is that Ogba has always been Igbo speaking.



"This is rich coming from someone who was using examples in Spain, Portugal etc. I am still talking about other examples in Nigeria but you on the other hand have cross the Atlantic to the heart of Europe. Remove the log in your eyes son. Moreover, cultural forces are universal - there is NOTHING special about the Igbos that makes them immuned to the consequences of socio-cultural interactions".

Irrelevant drivel. Not worth reply.


"In addition, I noticed you conveniently side stepped that vital question. Now the answer is: Yes there are languages in Africa and Nigeria that have gone extinct within the last ten decades.And these are languages that disappeared because the natives stopped speaking them - as a result of the encroachment of a more dominant language. It happens hence it will be an act of gross intellectual dishonesty to dismiss the claims of the Ogba people who said that was what happened to them".

Only that there was never encroachment of any tribe in SE into Ogba. The only group that attempted to encroach into Ogba were the Abohs, who themselves failed and don't even regard themselves as Igbos today.

So out the window and into the trash can goes your encroachment theory.


. "I will love to be more specific but unlike you I was not there several hundred years ago when the ancient Ogbas and Igbos were interacting with each othe"



Not that, you have absolutely no knowledge on the culture and traditions of the people involved, you are absolutely ignorant of the issues at hand, so you try to mask your ignorance by making generalized Statements, but it still sticks out like a sore thumb.


"Yes. I forgot Igbos are so 'special' that the universal forces of cultural interactions does not apply to them. Now, lets not stop there, lets remind the world that the laws of Gravity does not apply to people of Igbo descent either"


This is you pathetically trying to mask your generalized statements but failing woefully.
Remind me again, what did you say made the Ogbas to be speaking Igbo dialects today?
Just like I thought, nothing, just generalized statements to cover ignorance.


" This was never a contest for me. But even if that is what you wanna call it, ANYONE with a functioning brain can clearly see that I absolutely decimated you. And I didn't have to copy and paste anything. Just pure logic and reasoning poured the proverbial cold water on your carelessly formulated assertions."

No it was never a contest. It couldn't be a contest when you are this ignorant and even worst, delusional.
You only ended up displaying your ignorance for the world to see. Ndo

"This is the most hilarious claim I have read on Nairaland in a long time Please do the following:

1. Provide this Historical 'fact"

It's a known historical fact that no Yoruba king was addressed as Oba pre colonial era. I don't know anyother historical fact you are looking for, it's not Yorubas were literate people with written history in the pre colonial era.

2." What is so special about the name Oba and the arrival of the British".


Irrelevant question.



"So tell me this: what is the relationship the way Igbos address their 'Kings' (in quote because Igbos don't have Kings - they only started copying Yorubas and others recently ) and the way Yorubas choose to address theirs"



The Eze nri is older than all monarchies ever existed in Yorubaland, the above only exposed your ignorance.



"Now, Yoruba names with OBA (just a few from the top of my head):
OBA-FEMI
OBA-RINDE
OBA-LARE
OBA-SOLAPE
OBA-TOTOSIN
OBA-FUNKE
ADE-OBA
OBA-DELE
OBANJOKO
OBAWOLE
OBAYANA
OBATAIYE
OBA-AIKU"


Means nothing, when we had already established that there are already existing Bini names with Oba prefix. Bini colonized parts of Yorubaland, so one would expect Oba names to spring up there, just as we have Oba names in Anioma land due to Bini imperialism too.



"I dare ANY authentic Bini person to even try to match this meagre number - I double-dare you. ;DThe name Oba is as Yoruba as BABALAWO"




Bini need not do anything. That Oba is a Bini word is already established, this is an irrelevant drivel from you

.


"I have doubts that you are guided by even a smidgen of rationality. You seem to me to be the typical Ipob whose only source of pleasure is picking fights with Yorubas on nairaland"



Now you are behaving like a real ignorant, yet haughty Afonja that you are.



"I am amused by your ignorance. If you don't know ask - stop exposing your ignorance like this.
Just because you don't know the answer to a question does not mean their is no answer. In Yoruba Odu'a means the one who endowed us with our way of life (or Culture)"


This is ridiculous. Everyone Knows that the name "Oduduwa" means nothing in Yoruba. If like call it Odua or anyother mombojombo your deluded mind can conjure.


"No offense taken - I am aware of your kind of sub-par level of reasoning common on Nairaland"



Non taken, i understand that mental retardation is a constant feature in Afonjaland, and is normally laced like a level of delusions of grandeur.
I understand you plight bro.

AkinPhysicist:
Okay before I engage you further do the following: spend a few minutes to learn HOW to quote. Your quoting presentation is shambolic, difficult read and very far from tidy. If you can't master the simple act of quoting on Nairaland, how am I gonna take you seriously - biko learn fast.

Now let me continue your Yoruba culture education program.

Of course the Bini version makes more sense to you because nothing makes you Ipobs happier than sticking it to the great Yoruba race.

Now, anybody (Yoruba, Bini or Igbo) that tells you that the great O'dua fell (as in physically) from the sky is someone who does not know Yoruba culture. Odu'a essence is of the sky does not mean O'dua fell from the sky.

This is the hallmark of intellectual laziness, ad hominem attacks. Anyway I will ignore them for now. And move unto more serious issues.

Bini version makes more sense because it's rational, you expect Oduduwa to come from a place of Negroid, and not from space, the Bini version of Oduduwa being a Bini Man is rational. Ofcourse I don't expect an Afonja to agree with me. Rationality isn't their forte.

Yoruba history is clear as crystals and it's holds the opinion that Oduduwa fell from the sky. There is no twisting around this.

Can't believe I left yesterday for unavoidable engagement and the Afonja started running amok with his Afonjaic ignorance.

Well, I'm back now. Prepare for some serious spanking.

Yet another example of someone who lacks basic understanding of Yoruba culture. Let me educate you son. In Yoruba the word Oba means King. In our culture, there is only one (Spiritually and physically) Oba in each town. So its culturally tautological for an Oba to refer to him self as Oba. Rather they used titles that usually indicate the region over which they rule over - hence names like Oluwo of Owo etc. Some of the other names are deeply rooted in spiritual nature of their throne like Ooni etc. The term Oba is usually used by the people of a town to refer to their King but specific terms like Ooni, Alaffin etc. are utilized by other Obas or spiritual leaders like babalawo to identify the King. This specific titles are seen to carry more power than the generic Oba title hence their usage. In addition, names with Oba prefixes/suffixes are some of the oldest names you will ever find in Yoruba land.

Trash! Historical fact is that no single Yoruba was had the name Oba attached to his name as at when the British arrived our shores. Even in Igboland, Eze is called Kings, yet Eze is usually attached to the name of Kings. None whatsoever in Yorubaland. The only one with Oba attached to his name, Oba of Lagos was installed by the Oba of Bini. This historical fact is sacrosanct and no amount of verbose narrative will obliterate it.
Binis also have names with Oba, eg Obaze, Obaseki, so you have no point.



How do you know its a Bini word if you don't even have basic knowledge of Yoruba culture? Read the above for your education

Because I had read Bini argument and Yorubas own,being a man guided by rationality, it didn't take long to know who is saying the truth and who is lying.


And why do you need to reconstruct it if its really a Bini name? Shouldn't it be able to stand on its own without reconstruction? . And by the way is Odu'a - that Oduduwa is for common folks who don't know the culture like you.

Because, it's a name Yorubas call him, it's not a name Binis call him, and it has no meaning in Yoruba language.

Supporting some alternate version of Yoruba history to spite the Yoruba race is not necessarily rational

No. Just responding to a post I deemed to be presenting falsehood as facts, no offense.


Yet another evidence of your lack of basic understanding of Yoruba culture. You are confusing Odu'a the man (physical) and Odu'a the spirit being (or essence). In our culture, every person has an essence. For (another) example Yemoja (is a Yoruba ancestor) who essence is believed to be connected the ocean/river. And even if you still cannot understand this - aren't you Igbos mostly Christians? Don't you believe that Jesus (your Jewish god) floated into the sky from some grave in Israel? So why are you so surprise that other cultures (that even predate Jesus) have similar symbolic motifs? As per the so call Eastern (or Mecca) origin of O'dua - this is a falsehood started by the original Muslim Yorubas (the predate the first Hausa or Fulani Muslims by decades if not a century) who were trying to hijack our culture for their own selfish religious purpose.

Trash! Yoruba culture was clear that Oduduwa fell from the sky. Binis said he came from Biniland, Bini perspective makes more sense.

A great diversity of peoples brought to the Americas from the Niger Delta and
Cross River Basin were labeled by merchants as Carabalí, as Cuban historian Deschamps
discovered: “The carabalí. The tribes brought to Cuba under this denomination
are innumerable . . . part of those [“carabalí’] who founded cabildos responded
to the following denominations: Abalo, Acocuá, Agro, Apapá, Bibí, Bogre, Bogre
Isuama, Abate Singlava, Brícamo, Ecunaso, Ibo Induri, Isicuato, Isiegue, Isuama,
Isuama Aballa Ocuite, Isuama Ibi, Isuama Isiegue, Isueche, Oquella, Ososo, Ososo
Eche, Ososo Omuma, Oxó, Ugri, Unigini, Aballa Otopa, Isuama Umofina, Isuama
Osulerisna, Orú, Elugo, Orate, Bané, Yudusi.”




And the quote is from afrocubaweb.com/ivormiller/IvorArticle.pdf


24, the above is a list of tribes that were shipped to Cuba from Niger Delta and Cross River basins, majority of which were people you would call Igbos today. But only one of them
Identified as Ibos there, ie "Ibo Induri"

Majority of the slaves Identified as their respective clans as their tribe, probably because they never saw themselves as belonging to anyother larger group other than their respective clans.

Names like Isucuato there, is Isuikwuto town in Abia state today,
See Oru= Orlu today. Yet then they all saw their clans as independent tribes.

24SEVEN:
Id say you made some points in your analysis, the primary one being the fact that even if oil dries up, most Igboid groups will never be Igbo.

That said, i will love to point out that you arent exactly correct to say that pre 1970, igboid groups who now have an independent recognition identified themselves as Igbos.
In making an analysis, one needs to acknowledge a difference between what was written in the book and the actual truth of the matter. Put both into perspective.

Your claims of Igboids being igbos pre1970 is from colonial publications/drafts/whatever. In those, "seemingly similar" ethnicities were rounded up into the nearest singular ethnicity/tribe. The British weren't interested in exploring the bits and peices, similarities and dissimilarities, neither did they care for the peoples history and the implications thereof, but were only interested in doing a classification roughwork basically for colonial ease of administration.

Historically, how does the Ogbaman, the Ikwerreman, the Ekpeye see himself? Have they at any point in the colonial times made attempt to be recognised as separate entities from Igbos, or have they always considered themselves Igbos from the colonial times only to change after the war. Is is possible to forsake your tribe? Ask yourself these questions, research on these and do not join the bandwagon of "oil is the reason". The british writing that Ogba/Ekpeye/Ikwerre are Igbos is a british fabrication, what did the people say about themselves then and now.

A tribesmen is a tribesman. Their pain is his, their glory is his.

No group was known as Igbo before the whites came. We all existed as distinct groups, like Ngwa, Asa, Ndoki, Etche, Ikwerre,Ogba,Ekpeye, Orrata, Izzi, Ezza,Abohs etc. No one was Igbo.

It was the British that saw that all these people spoke a mutually intelligible dialect continuum of a language they termed "Igbo". Ibo became a generic term for all these groups. So if you see slave records and the ethnic groups the Slaves identified with in the Eastern region, you will see things like Ndoki-Ibo, Omuma- Ibo, Ungwa( Ngwa)-Ibo, Isucuato(Isukwuato)- Ibo, Etche-Ibo, Ikwerre-Ibo, etc.

No one was really Igbo. We all had distinct clans we saw as our ethnic groups before the Igbo union.
So, it was not a case of the British adding the Ekpeye, Ogba, Ikwerre, to a people who already called themselves Igbo.

We were all identified as Igbo same time. And so, we all commenced the process of unification same time. The Igbo Union was full of cracks, and so when the British left, the job of filling these cracks fell on the likes of Zik, Ibiam, Okpara, Osadebeyetc. This process was still on when the Civil war ensued and the FG capitalized on the already existing fractures to destroy every effort at unification we had achieved so far then, it was important that the Igbo unification be undone for the sake of oil politics and to ensure that future agitation for secession by Igbos be frustrated.

[quote author=AkinPhysicist post=50590372] Yes. Languages CAN go into extinction by conquest. But - but conquest is not the only means.


Yes, it's not the only process, but you have so far failed to state how the other process could have tipped Ogba into totally abandoning Bini language for Igbo language when smaller groups like Engenni, Epie, Abua,,Degema held unto theirs.. You have at best decided to remain as vague as possible. Making generalized statements without importing them to show how they relate to Ogba-Igbo relationship. You are clearly out of your depth here.

You have just listed possible examples of extinction of languages by conquest. You are yet to show that this is the ONLY means through which languages become extinct. Let me ask you a simple question (Yes or No) - Are there languages in Nigeria that have gone extinct over the last hundred or so years?

Are there languages which have gone into extinction within the same Igbo influence zone( Eastern region) that were assimilated by Ndiigbo totally to serve as a template to what could have happened to Ogba? No

So you resorted to importing events that happened in non Igbo influence area to serve as a template in an Igbo influence area, No?


Yes. They might tend to hold on to but apparently not always successfully. That is the obvious point that you have so far been unwilling to accept.

Still making generalized Statements. Are we not?


I doubt you know this as a fact - I have given you several opportunities to describe your connection to the Ogbas other than claiming they are Igbos.

No, I can not meet you half way at the wrong way, you clearly lack simple knowledge of factors at play in the traditional and cultural influence zone of Ndiigbo, hence why you keep making generalized Statements and importing alien systems to work on an Igbo influence area.

This is epic fail from you. Try again later.

AkinPhysicist:
Yes I am Yoruba and I bear my Yoruba names proudly. However, the name is not the all and be all of cultural identity. The late OJB Jezreel's real names are Babatunde Okungbowa. Pure Yoruba names but he was a proud son of Agbor in Delta state.

Another Irrational point. OjB people speak an Igboid language, so I fail to see the relevance of his name to our discussion.

Akalaka and his people bear Both Igbo names and speak Igboid language.

This your example would hold, if Akalaka though with Igbo name, but his Ogba people are Edo speaking. Then we can say that name alone is not enough to classify a person.

So once again, Apples and Oranges brother.

The only example that could fit into your argument is that of Apoi Ijaws in Ondo state, but then again, Apoi Ijaws already have Ijaw in their name, indicating their origin, even though they are now Yoruba speaking.

AkinPhysicist:
This is what some Bini people say. We Yorubas disagree. The title of King among the Binis has always been Ogiso. The title Oba was imported (together with Bini's very first Oba) by the Binis from Yorubaland.

Until the the end of colonialism, there was not a single King in Yorubaland that goes by the title "Oba", it was always, Oluwo, Owo, Ooni, Alaffin, Olu.

The only Oba the British met in Yorubaland was the ones installed by Oba of Bini, like Oba of Lagos.

It doesn't take a soothesayer to know that Oba is a Bini word.

Always the etymology of Oduduwa if reconstructed, leads to a Bini name, "Osazuwa".

Rationally speaking, Oduduwa and Oba are of Bini origin and this is the part of history the Binis subscribe to.

It's only out of Ego that Yorubas will exist that Oduduwa descended from the sky, or from the East( Sudan/ Egypt) instead of admitting to the rational conclusion that Oduduwa came from East of Yorubaland, which Bini represents.

" Everything? Nobody with a basic knowledge of human culture will make such a claim. Think about it and thank me later".

Everything. I have nothing to thank you for.


"How do you know? Have you ever studied the Ogba culture? How can you be sure there is no such evidence if you have not looked for it yourself? It appears you start with a conclusion (that the Ogbas are of Igbo origin) and isolate your thinking around that claim."

I had looked it up,and I had simply stated why Ogba couldn't have been Bini speaking originally in my first reply to you.
You are the Yoruba man totally out of your depths in Igbo and Ogba history, yet felt the need to meddle into a topic you know little about. You are the one with a pre conceived conclusion.

You are still missing the point. A culture NEED NOT build empires to assimilate another culture.

A culture need to be big to be bigger to assimilate a smaller one.
Because I know you are already seeing a big SE Igbo in your Yoruba mind, when such wasn't in existence as of the time in discuss.

In the era in discuss, there was no Igbo culture. Every Igbo group saw itself as a distinct entity.

Ogba had to contend with Abohs(Ukwuani) throughout their pre colonial live, they fought many wars with Abohs, won some and lost some, it was a stale mate, as Aboh couldn't control Ogba.

The Anambra, Enugu, Ebonyi men were not aware of existence of Ogba before the arrival if the British, except maybe the wondering Aros and the Blacksmith Awkas who wandered all over non Igbo speaking lands of the East and Igbo speaking parts.

Unless you state clearly how Ndiigbo assimilated Bini speaking Ogba, without assimilating Ogoni, Andoni, Engenni, Epie,,Ekoi people, I am afraid you are making up impossible scenarios.

"Amaechi senior who name his son Rotimi after the great SAN will disagree with you"



Amaechi Chibuike is an Igboid speaking man with a Yoruba middle name.
Akalaka was an Igbo speaking man with an Igbo name.

Apples and Oranges.
Who was the Igbo man named Akalaka that Akalaka supposedly Edo father named his son after? And to what end?
Edos in the era in discuss considered themselves more noble than Igbo speaking people who they lorded over in Anioma.