₦airaland Forum

Are you sure? Human beings will go to almost any length for self preservation and even sometimes self advancement. It won't be the first time someone changes his/her name. Be careful of making universal statements like the above bolden they are almost by definition wrong on 'arrival.' In addition, we still have the possibility that his original Bini name is lost to history.

Why would Akalaka change his Edoid name to Igbo ones? What self preservation are you speaking of? There was no Igbo empire in SE out to assimilate Ogba, even Ogba Edoid neighbors, the Engennis and Epies all still retained their Edoid languages.

You are simply creating a scenario that never existed out of thin air, to support your stand. Not even Ogba people speak of a lost Bini name.

You are clearly fishing in shallow waters here.

"Yet Victor Moses (a full-blooded African) is English-speaking. Try another argument"

This argument is DOA.

Victor Moses parents gave him English and Jewish names because his Edo people were colonized by the British people who imposed English language and Christianity on them.

Unless you are able to prove that there existed an Igbo empire that conquered and imposed Igbo language and traditional worships and culture on Ogba, the above argument is at best a lame attempt.

Furthermore, Victor Moses parents and people don't speak English as first languages, they still have their own non English related first language.

"Thank you for saying unlikely and not impossible because by doing so you have admitted that there is indeed a possibility even from your own Igbo-centric point of view. And how do you know "nothing on ground support this hypothesis."? Are you on ground in Ogba? Are you a member of this tribe? Or are you are comparative researcher who specializes in Ogba culture or at the very least Nigerian culture? So there is no way for you to know with 100% certainty that "No such thing happened..."

What you are suggesting is impossible. Ndiigbo were never empire builders, and as such, what you suggested was impossible.

No such things happened. As there are no rational evidence to prove otherwise.

Yes! Nothing on ground support such hypothesis. Everything rooted in antiquity in Ogbaland is Igboid and not Edoid.
There are many academic research on Ogba language and people by third parties. Non points towards Edo.

DifferentBoy1:
Who told you that Oyigbo is Igbo, na so you deh thief?
Oyigbo is an Ogoni land the the asa people of abia took some lands from at times paste for residence but letter claimed to be the owners, giving rise to Igbos calling it Obigbo.
Go to Afam which is the heartland Of Oyigbo, you will see that they are Ogonis.

You are not serious. Oyigbo is only part of Rivers state because of the mammar Nasir boundary adjustment program of 1975 that carved out Oyigbo from old Imo state and added it to old Rivers, simply because oil was discovered in large commercial quantity in that part of old Imo state.

No Ogoni town in Oyigbo LGA, Ogoni in Tai LGA share boundary with Ndoki towns in Oyigbo. After the last clash between Tai people and Ndokis over Okoloama boundary they( Tai) had learnt their lessons and stayed clear off Oyigbo. Any Ogoni Man in Afam Ukwu or Afam nta, is staying there as a resident tenant.

MXrep:
bros, victor moses has his village dialect and it is not English, thats the difference. These people dont speak igbo as second language but their original first language. Hausa forced their language on many northern minorities but all of them speak their original language first and learn hausa when they grow up and mingle with the larger society, but in the case of rivers people, they speak igbo as first language and has no other language.

Also, Victor Moses parents were colonized by the British, who forced English language on them.

Question is, at what point did Ndiigbo colonize Ogba people, as to impose Igbo language on them?

DifferentBoy1:
We no b Igbo... Period!!!
Na so Igbo make Opobo and Bonny forget to speak their language (Ibani), come go speak Igbo, if not for just one community left still speaking Ibani... The legendary Finima community.

Opobo and Bonny had Many Igbo slaves who became natives there and continued speaking their Igbo languages, passing it down to their descendants.

No Igbo man left Anambra or Enugu to go and force Igbo language on Bonny or Opobo.
Be rational for once.

And for the records, no one is forcing Igbo identity on any one, you are either Igbo or you are not. Loyalty can't be forced.

Are you sure this is impossible? Languages do go extinct and are replaced by the dominant language. Also, are you sure that there are no traces of Bini language in the tongue spoken by the Ogbas?

Languages go into extinction by conquest. When a superior group conquers an inferior one and imposes its language and culture on them over centuries.

This was how various tribes in modern Spain, Portugal and France were conquered by the Romans, who imposed their Language on them, leading to extinction of many ancient languages there and the evolution of pigeon Roman languages like French, Spanish, Portuguese, Etc, which is why we call them Romance languages.

In absence of a conquest, invasion and subjugation, human tend to hold unto their language, as we can see with the myriads of Languages existing in Cross River North senatorial zone, where it's said that you will almost see new language for each 20km traveled.

Everyword rooted in antiquity in Ogba is Igboid and not Edoid.

Cultural assimilation is very complicated. It appears you do not have a full grasp of it. While it is true that groups like the Olukunmi were able to maintain their language (notice I did not say culture) - the reality is that throughout history MANY groups assimilate language-wise while others maintain most of their language. So the assimilation of the Ogbas would not be outside the realm of possibilities.

You would have to present examples in modern Nigeria, where such cultural assimilation occurred, without an imperial force to coerce it into being.

Edoid speaking smaller Engenni in Ahoada West and Edoid speaking smaller epie people in Bayelsa all conserved their Edoid languages, seeing as there was no empire to force alien Igbo language on them.

The reality is that there are no history of any non Igbo speaking group in Igboland assimilated into Igbo language, the Igbo run a clannish umunna system that makes it hard for an outside to partake in Igbo language or culture.

Now, what if the name Akalaka changed over the years to sound more Igboid and less Biniad? Have you considered this possibility? Also, Akpa ohia might be an Igbo name but that does not negate the claim that Akalaka (his father) was a bini prince - after all Rotimi Amechi is not Yoruba yet bears a typical Yoruba name - this practice is a very old one.

No such thing happened, as all thing rooted in antiquity in Ogbaland are all Igboid, it's unlikely Akalaka name changed over time. Nothing whatsoever on ground to support this hypothesis.

No Bini Prince would be going by Igbo name, it can't happen in Modern Bini, it sure as hell couldnt have happened in Ancient Bini.

Bad example. Amaechi surname is Amaechi and his first name is Chibuike, his language is also Igboid, it takes no much rationality to notice that "Rotimi" is an anomaly, and to conclude that he is non Yoruba.

To run this hypothesis, you would have to present another Bini Prince in history with Igbo name, who isn't Igbo speaking.
Seeing as Rotimi is not Yoruba speaking.

Akalaka is not just an Igbo name, his Ogba clan is Igbo speaking.

RB has like 4 Facebook pages. I belong to all of them. Shutting down one means nothing. It will only divert traffic to the other ones.
I just finished commenting on RB hardtalk Xtra.

If Buhari paid for this shut down like IPOB are currently saying, then he needs to pay more to shut down the rest.
But it's funny how Afonjas and Northerners who claim not to care about Biafra are rejoicing over this news, it makes you wonder how the mind of these people work.

CandyDiamond:
Guy,you have educated me a lot on this issue, thanks, I am always suprise when I see someone speaking Igbo at the saying he or she is not Igbo,I once met a girl with two Igbo name but saying she is not Igbo just like Chibuike Amaechi or Okechukwu Oliseh.I haven't meet a person bearing Olariwaju Bolaji speaking Yoruba and saying he is not a Yoruba person.

Thanks.

It's the price we have to pay for losing the war, and then for being curses with visionless political jobbers who parade themselves around as political leaders in SE.

AkinPhysicist:
Have you ever considered the possibility (however remote from your point of view) that these people's ancestors were really Binis and not Igbos?

The possibility is Zero. Here are why:

1, Ogba father who was said to have left Bini during the time of Oba Awurrae 1, according to Ogba history was named "Akalaka". Akalaka was said to be a Bini Prince.
Akalaka is an Igbo name, not a Bini one. What are the possiblility of a pre colonial Bini Prince answering an Igbo name, bearing in mind that the Binis are a very proud people.
Akalaka would go on to name his two sons, Akpa ohia( yet an Igbo name) and Ogba.
This is a supposedly Bini Man.


2. There was no Igbo empire to force down Igbo language on hypothetically Bini speaking Akalaka and Ogba people.
Ogba people claim that their original Bini language was corrupted by Igbo language of their Igbo speaking neighbors who happened to be ( Ukwuani and Ndoni people) two groups who are still suffering from various degrees of Igbo denial themselves and then Ohaji/ Egbema.
But if we for a moment assume that Ukwuanis and Ndoni are proud Igbos, the question arises: Is interaction between Ndoni and Aboh enough to convert an originally bini speaking Ogba into Igbo speaking, without first making them bilingual in Igbo and Bini and then Igbo speaking with evidence of a dead Bini language?
From what we know of human anthropology, the answer is Zero.

This becomes emphasized when we realize that right in the heart of Enu ani, the Yoruba speaking Odiani( Olukumi clan) still speak a Yoruboid language, despite being entirely surrounded by Igbo speaking neighbors, they only became bilingual in Igbo and Olukumi languages.

In Ebonyi state, we have Kele people in Ntezi and Effium, They are entirely surrounded by Igbo speaking tribes, but still speak kele, in addition to Igbo language, ie they are Bilingual.
In Anambra, we have the Igala speaking Olumbanasaa communities, who only became bilingual in Igbo and Igala because of decades of interaction with Igbo speaking neighbors.

In the final analysis, the idea of Ndiigbo influencing Ogba original Bini language, so much that it became entirely replaced by an Igbo one, with no trace of Bini is impossible.

The rational understanding, is that Ogba have always been Igbo speaking since antiquity, rendering the Bini story irrational.

DCNM:
Eze in Ogba Land is a Chief. The main traditional ruler is the Oba of Ogba-Land.

Eze means King in Ogba as with all Igbo speaking realms. Even in Far away Igbanke( Edo state), Isobo( Cross river state) Eze still mean King and not chief.

Oba has no meaning in Ogba language, it is a recent import to suit the "We be bini" story. Which sounds ridiculous, seeing as they are yet to import Bini language and throw away the current Igbo one they speak.

steppin:
I can't remember. But I used mbido Igbo too.

Ok.

bigfrancis21:
Isn't this the same king that one time adopted the 'oba' title instead of 'eze'? How come he is now bearing 'eze' again?

No. That one is Eze Chukwumela Nnam-Obi. He is the paramount ruler of Ogba kingdom, his title is Eze Ogba, until recently when he started going by the title of Oba of Ogba.

Ogba has too many mushroom Ezes, like you have in Abia state after Orji uzor introduced the "autonomous community" anarchy. I suspect they( Ogba) were republicans who adopted ceremonial monarchies recently like most SE communities.

steppin:
Okay. The story of the man was written in a book we used in primary school then.
You used it in your post and memories of my childhood flashed back to me.

Is it " Mbido Igbo" or "Azu ndu" ?
My granny have copies of both that my uncles used. I read them both at my leisure time.

Kiliwi was drawn doing press up in one of them, and bags of cements were loaded on his back, so much that they nearly formed a mountain. Crazy stuff.

steppin:
Lol @ We be Bini" story there is stronger than kiliwi Nwachukwu.. I nearly fall for ground.
Bros, you be old man o!
I still remember that book.

Haha! Still in my twenties o!
Grew up with my now late old grandfather, it kinda rubbed off on me, I mean the old people talk.

Nice thread brother.

I agree with all your point.

I had always been of the opinion that IPOB is putting the cart before the horse by seeking for Biafra without yet seeking on how to politically unite the Igbo speaking realm under a strong able progressive leadership front, that will deliver in Nigeria and give the people a taste of what could be achieved Post Nigeria if given the chance.

I had expected IPOB to Marshall out a 20 year plan aimed at using their vast control of the Igbo grass roots to enthrone pro Igbo independence members from their ranks as well as recruiting genuine current non members of high intellectual capacity for this task. They could seize the entire political representatives in the Igbo realm( SE and SS Igbo) at all levels and tiers of government.

With this control, they can work towards economic progress of the region and strategize on how to tactically loosen the grip of Nigeria on Igboland until we are entirely free.

This is what I expected. Instead all I get is noise in radio stations, noise in online forums( Facebook,?Twitter, etc) noise in the streets in form of riots that claim innocent Igbo lives that could easily be galvanised into a better use.

I see no way forward with IPOB. Though I'm not going to antagonize them.

Thanks for the article. It was refreshing.

EternalTruths:
I am not doubting you. In short you are right but I can vow that when their oil wells dry up, these set of traitors will remember whom they are

Can we bet over it.

Do you really think so?

Oyigbo has Oil, yet are proud Igbos.
Ika has no oil, yet the "We be Bini" story there is stronger than kiliwi wachukwu.

It will take more than just their oil drying up to reconcile these people back to the fold.

Though I believe that the Post 1970 oil politics of the FG played a big role in their current psyche.

It will take a strong leadership in SE, whose single aim is the unification of all Igbo speaking clans under one realm. This leadership must be a progressive forward looking one.
I'm yet to see one.

EternalTruths:
They are deceiving themselves that they are not Igbos


Even the late king bear an Igbo name with an Igbo title

Bini ko Bini ni

When their oil well dry up, they will start claiming Igbos

You don't force ethnicity on people. You just let them be. Ethnicity demands loyalty and sense of kinship. These people loyalty is towards Bini, their Igbo names bearing kings visit Bini from time to time to pay homage to Bini speaking Oba of Bini.They have no iota of sense of kinship towards SE nor any atom of Loyalty towards us.

Better believe it that these people have more hatred for the SE than they have for SW or the North.

They are not worth the trouble. Just let them be for now.

http://ogbakingdom.com/historic-visit/

rasputinn:
And Osanebi Ossai is from there

SMH

Bunch of thieving miscreants

That money could have gone a long way in alleviating the suffering of some of his people.

But how can I judge him, it's his money, right? He reserves the right to spend it as he deems fit.

.

CandyDiamond:
Why are they bearing Igbo names,the same market days as Igbos and they speak Igbo. They need to examine their Bini descendants issue because Bini people don't bear Igbo names and they don't speak igbo they speak Bini,eshan,etc

It's the aftermath of the Civil war that Ndiigbo lost.

Precolonial Igboland had no central leadership, each clan saw itself as a distinct entity from the next.

The unification of all Igbo speaking clans had not yet reached it's advanced stage when the civil war occurred.
The FG capitalized on the fractions inherent in the Igbo unification to balkanize oil bearing Igbo clans from the rest of the Igbo mainland.

They achieved this by empowering centrifugal forces within these groups, so much that they overpowered and outnumbered the centripetal ones. Men like Francis Ellah who stood for Igbo unity in Ogbaland soon found themselves in the minority and were even regarded as Igbo agents working against Ogbaland for selfish political aims by their Ogba people.
The dearth of real leadership in SE also worsened the entire situation. As no concrete long term plan was ever made to reintegrate these groups strategically into the Igbo nation.

The end result is that Ogba is Igbo speaking, but is not Igbo.

They will tell you that Igbos forced Igbo language on them, even when there are no evidence of dead Bini language in Ogbaland.

CandyDiamond:
I thought they are not Igbos, Eze umuapka of Ogbaland.

Ogba people don't see themselves as Igbos. They believe they are Bini descendants.

Though they once had a pan Igboist leader in late Eze Ogbuehi Francis Ellah. He even once represented Ndiigbo in national conference.
http://nigeriaworld.com/articles/2008/apr/282.html

fmlala:
Generally, most ethnic groups from Rivers State use "Eze" as their traditional title so, don't be jealous when you see that again.

Not most. Just the Igbo/Igboid ones, ie Ekpeye( Ahoada East and West), Ikwerre,Etche, Oyigbo, Ndoni, Egbema, Ogba.

vodutive:
Talk like an intelligent person or I wont respond to you. I understand you harbour deep seated scars from the war but that should not stop your objectivity. By all means call Buhari incompetent ( I said it myself he has no vision) we can argue over Gowon's incompetence or competence Gowon incompetent but there has never been any suggestion of Gowon ever looting the treasury.


The problem with a lot of People of Igbo extraction is that the scars of war haven't healed, even those who were not around have been brainwashed by your parents with hate. I really don't think you guys know how you come across? Like black Americans perpetually blaming slavery for their problems. Always playing the victim and always full of hate, unable to reason objectively!!! Guess what? The civil war ended 46 years ago!!! Everybody else has moved on except you and the longer you dwell on it the more it eats you up inside.

Lol! Typical Afonja.

Igbo hatred was the reason your failed incompetent rulers all looted your failed nation dry and failed to transform her from a 3rd world to atleast a 2nd world country after over 45years? A feat nations like Singapore that were at the same level of development as Nigeria as of 1963 had achieved, and oh they didn't have poorly educated kleptomaniac military dictators to thank for their feats now, do they? They had democratically elected, intellectuals of the first order to thank for that.

Afonja! Keep looking to blame Igbo man for the failed state of your "one Nigeria". If your incompetent leaders delivered, no Igbo man would be complaining. The scar of the war is on your Nigeria. 45years later, she is still an underdeveloped 3rd world country, that's not the fault of the Igbo man, you need to move on from celebrating mediocrity, the entire world has moved on from that, even Kenya of yesterday. The longer you dwell on celebrating and recycling mediocrity as leaders, the more "Shi.t hole" this country will turn to.

vodutive:
I stated that Gowon is the best leader Nigeria has ever had. I was around during Gowon's era so I can mahe an informed comparison based on 1st hand experience not hearsay. As for Buhari, I said he is one of the better leaders but I also said he is not a man of vision. The implication being that Nigeria has not been blessed with great leaders. Buhari only stands out because he is not a corrupt man...a rare occurrence amongst Nigerian leaders.


Read what is written before jumping to respond based on prejudices.

Both Gowon and Buhari are corrupt dictators that looted Nigerian treasury and left her in her current miserable state.
They set the tone for future looters like IBB and Abacha, and Buhari even worked for Abacha.

Buhari usurped a democratically elected president, that's a crime punishable by death if followed to logical conclusion, and a corrupt act, seeing as his duty as a military officer was to safeguard the nation's democracy from outside forces, but he turned the power the people invested on him and used it against the people.

There is nothing whatsoever to celebrate about those two individuals, if you can remove the sentiments beclouding your reasoning and reason well.

Meanwhile this is the nature of the majority of roads in Ndokwa/Ukwuani region.

Their people suffer in penury. Their farm produce go to waste because of lack of access roads to take them to markets in towns for sell.

gidgiddy:
Really? They are the best Nigeria has had? Chei! Nigerians have a waybof expecting the best from mediocrity. Both these men are:

War Criminals

Military dictators

Ran corrupt regimes

Guilty of vast human right abuse

Killed many people to up hold the fraudulent creation of the British called Nigeria just to acquire Oil wealth for their fellow Northerners

Destroyed democracy and enthroned the fraudulent unitary regime

Cared only about keeping the Northern oligarchy in control of Nigeria.


Its just that Nigeria is the backward country it is, otherwise, both these men should have gone to jail for their many crimes against humanity

Is it not funny and Ironic that Buhari worked for the same Abacha he(vodutive) said destroyed Nigeria.
The same Abacha that Buhari wined and dined with , and served under his corrupt admin to rob the country dry, having succeeded in destroying the country's nascent democracy in 1983. The same Buhari that had continued to vouch for Abacha's innocence.

I tell you , this failed nation is a reflection of her citizens.
In what planet does dictators and looters like Gowon and usurpers of democratically elected leaders like Buhari, pass off as model leaders?

In January 1975, Gowon revamped the membership of the Federal Executive Council, increasing the number of military ministers. He depended more and more on a small group of advisers and became increasingly inaccessible to his military colleagues. Without broad consultation, he backed off from the 1976 date set for a return to civilian rule, explaining that to adhere rigidly to it would "amount to a betrayal of a trust" and "certainly throw the nation back into confusion." Public employees staged protest strikes in May and June that brought essential services to a standstill. The government responded by granting retroactive wage increases that averaged 30 percent, which fed inflation and led to industrial strikes as union members demanded parallel raises.

The political atmosphere deteriorated to the point that Gowon was deposed in a bloodless coup d'état July 29, 1975--the ninth anniversary of the revolt that had brought him to power. At the time, Gowon was at an OAU summit meeting in Kampala, Uganda. The perpetrators of the coup included many of the officers who had participated in the July 1966 coup. Even the officers responsible for Gowon's security were involved. Gowon pledged his full loyalty to the new regime and left for exile in Britain, where he received a pension from the Nigerian government.
http://countrystudies.us/nigeria/25.htm

The Gowon regime came under fire because of widespread and obvious corruption at every level of national life. Graft, bribery, and nepotism were an integral part of a complex system of patronage and "gift" giving through which influence and authority were asserted. Although the military had pledged to rid the government of corruption, the public became increasingly aware of abuses, primarily because of daily exposés in the press. In 1973 the federal government established a special anticorruption police force--the "X-Squad"--whose subsequent investigations revealed ingenious forms of extortion and fraud-- not only in government and public corporations but in private business and in the professions as well.

A major scandal that had international implications and reached the highest levels of government and the business community took place in the mid-1970s; it involved the purchase abroad of construction materials by state agents at prices well above market values. Rake-offs were pocketed by public officials and private contractors. Other scandals in hospitals and orphanages shocked the populace, while corruption in importing medical drugs whose effective dates long since had expired revealed that even the health of Nigerians was at risk.

Inefficiencies compounded the impact of corruption. In mid1975 , 400 cargo ships--250 of them carrying 1.5 million tons of cement--clogged the harbor of Lagos, which had been paralyzed for fifteen months with vessels waiting to be unloaded. To compound the error, spoiled and inferior-grade cement was concealed by mixing it with acceptable material for use in public building projects. Later, buildings collapsed or had to be dismantled because of the inferior product. New roads washed away because of bad construction and inadequate controls. In these scandals, as in others, the culprits were a combination of Nigerian businessmen, government officials, and foreign companies. Few people and few projects seemed exempt from the scourge.

Crime posed a threat to internal security and had a seriously negative impact on efforts to bring about economic development. Armed gangs, often composed of former soldiers, roamed the countryside engaging in robbery, extortion, and kidnapping. The gangs sometimes operated with the connivance of the police or included moonlighting soldiers. Pirates raided cargo ships awaiting entry to ports or unloaded them at the piers ahead of the stevedores. Drug trafficking and smuggling were prevalent. Punishment was meted out to large batches of convicted and suspected criminals, who were dispatched by firing squads in public executions meant to impress spectators with the seriousness of the offenses and with the government's concern to curb crime. These measures had no noticeable effect on the crime rate, however, but seemed rather to provoke a callous public attitude toward violence.

vodutive:
Your handle says it all, no point in arguing with you. But for the sake of the others who are interested in facts not indoctrination and tribal sentiment, for all their failings, The period of Gowon, to Obasanjp(military) to Shagari were the best periods in the history of this country. There was meritocracy, competence in govt and the civil service, we had national development plans (1st, 2nd and 3rd) and contrary to the view of the above poster, most of the good infrastructure, Universities, schools,roads hospitals etc that exist today (even though they are now falling apart from lack of maintenance by the govts that followed) were built during the Era of Gowon to Shagari, 1966-83. I never said they were perfect but compared to successive govts from 1985 onward (bar none) they were like Saints and Genuises.


You only have look at a University built 1966-1983 and compare to a University built post 1983, look at a road built 1966-1983 and compare the quality. Look at a federal govt building built 1966-1983 and compare to the ones built since 1983.

I have plenty of time for Gowon.

Lol! An Afonja to the rescue of his Northern masters?