₦airaland Forum

@nwando
suit yourself dear.
You can compare nwando to an atheist or Great One because I maintain tithes are unbiblical in the new covenant.
That doesn't faze me.
pay your tithes if you believe you owe it.
I don't
my heart does not condemn me and I'm peace with my God.
See you in heaven!

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Well,I’ve not said you are any of those group of people that I mentioned.Remember,I also mentioned Christian,spiritfilled,born again and pastor so its unfair for you to say I compared you to the bad guys only.The point I established was that you reap what you sow.You give it is given unto you,You pay tithes devourers are rebuked.Thats what the bible says.So for you to say you were blessed for giving doesn’t in any way prove that the other person’ll not be blessed for paying tithes.The 2practices attract blessing.Hope to see you in heaven too.

Tithe is simply 1/10.There are no rigid rules as supposed.Tithing was done even before the levite priesthood and it was paid in different forms,not only crops(see Abraham heb7v4and Jacob) so levi can't dictate how tithes must be paid.

@nwando
on Deut14v22-29.I've explained something about it earlier on this thread,but no problem.Lemme just chip in a little.Firstly,we believers know that scripture agrees with scripture.If it seems not agree,then we should be humble to accpt that we are the ones who donot understand it.Let God be true and everyman a liar.
Deut14:22-29 shouldn't be taken in isolation.In the bible,there are different types of tithes(simply meaning 1/10) just as there are different types of offerings.Tithes are even sometimes classed under offerings.Recall 'bring ye ALL the tithes'?Let me quickly point out 3 different tithes in the law.-Tithes to the levite in the temple(see deut12v5,6 or numbers18v21)
Deu 12:5 But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
Deu 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:
-tithes to levites and poor around you at home(see deut14v27-29),-tithe for even youself(See deut12v17)
Deu 12:17 Thou mayest not eat within thy gates the tithe of thy corn, or of thy wine, or of thy oil, or the firstlings of thy herds or of thy flock, nor any of thy vows which thou vowest, nor thy freewill offerings, or heave offering of thine hand:
-tithes for God(nehemiah10v38,39), etc
In those days,There was a first tithe that was given to the Levites, out of which they paid a tenth part to the priests, Num18:24-28; Neh10:37,38
Neh 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Neh 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.
. Then of that which remained, the owners separated a second tithe, which they ate before the Lord the first and second year; and in the third year it was given to the Levites and to the poor, Deut14:28, Deut14:29. In the fourth and fifth years it was eaten again by the owners, and in the sixth year was given to the poor. The seventh year was a Sabbath to the land, and then all things were common, Exo23:10, 11.
Notice the progression explained above again in this summary passage.Deut14:22 says "tithe[b] ALL[/b]" year after year(each year).then verses23-26 says eat second tithe with your household IN Jerusalem,then verse27-29 says tithe(simply meaning one tenth) to levites[NB;not levite priests in Jerusalem] neighbours and the poorS around you.In summary,what the Lord was imparting on Isreal is the attitude of giving.Giving to God,to His servants,to people around us and to ourselves and our house,not just amassing wealth and being stingy.Eccl5v13-20.God bless you

@nwando
great testimonies.God is faithful.He says give and it shall be given unto you,a good measure, and running over.He never ceases to impress me.But also,lets have it in mind that gain is not godliness
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
If you give,it'll be given unto you,thats the law.It doesn't matter if you're born a christian or a muslim.If you sow rice,you'll reap rice,spiritfilled or backslider.If you jump from a 7-storey building,you'll break something,born again or a philistine.If you're diligent and talkand think positively,you'll succeed,whether you're a pastor or an athiest.We should give thanks always and stay focused in serving God in love,no matter what we reap.In other words,gain doesn't prove that we are in line with God's standards of godliness,its the Word that proves that.

@kunleOshob
I myself,I don't know why we are arguing back and forth on this issue of tithes.I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again that Hebrews7 doesn’t say we should stop paying tithes.get another verse not this. The goal of the writer was to show the Jews that Jesus is superior to the priests, being a priest after the order of Melchizedec(a man superior to Abraham their father),it wasn't to discourage the hebrews from paying tithes.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
The argument is on the side of the new covenant as better than the old covenant. He doesn’t say that the old is bad, no but that the new is better. The summary of the old covenant is, be circumcised and keep the law(go to the priest to continually offer various sacrifices and offerings) then you’ll be saved BUT the summary of the new covenant is believe in Jesus as the atonement and you’ll be saved.
The law refered to is the law of carnal commandments(of externals,sacrifices, works before salvation) or what some call ceremonial laws Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
All he was tryin to say is that the practices of Judaism do not save you but Jesus does.
Now see,if what you're saying is what he is saying i.e no more law no more tithe,that means there is no more need for faith.see matthew23
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The Lord said the heavy heavy matters of the law(that carry weight in the%) are jugdement,mercy and faith.Tithe na minor thing 4law.If this is the law Hebrews says we do not require,then that means as NT believers,no to the law,no to tithe,no to jugement,no to mercy,no to faith.what is left, methinknotso

@nwando
thanks,I do appreciate your reply.I also give cheerfully both in and outside church.Tithe has nothing to do as regards salvation,but we are saved to serve.As debosky has rightly said,The master said "this you ought to do'.I believe with him that that matters.Even 'let there be light' doesnot contain that much words in a sentence,yet light obeyed.There is power in the words of the Master

@nwando
Christ lived and walked around on earth physically and I read no where that he received tithes from the multitudes.
The greatest priest,our Lord and saviour Jesus received no tithes
Neither did his disciples and early Christians.
and the only time he mentioned it was while rebuking pharisees who were law keepers
Are we now pharisees?
A research into the history of modern tithing revealed that the Disciples of Christ and early Christians paid no tithes until hundreds of years after the death of Christ.
A purely fundraising venture by the Catholic church and it stuck.

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neither do I read anywhere that he received offerings and some many good things we sometimes do.That doesn't make them wrong.He is the word personified and everly in support of the word.He in His wisdom has recorded all things that we need in his word either personally or thru his servants(the prophets and apostles).
I don't fully trust a research that is inaccurate as to many issues of that period

@seguno2
can you please show me how I misquoted the bible?I've not judged or condemned you so far,but its like you anti tithe people are the ones treating tithe payers and collectors like they are blasphemers and heretics.I believe that wen you present your understandin of the subject on a forum like nairaland,then you should be ready for differing views not telling others to keep thier view to themselves if you cant find biblical faults against such view.also I'm convinced that tithing is a good thing that should be encouraged,I didn't say it is the only good

@kunleoshob
hey,take am easy,no be fight now.I'm not trying to force you to pay tithes,thats not my goal and it has never being.My point has been,although tithes isn't a weighty matter,it is good.Ive never said its a basis for salvation,all I'm saying is it is good to pay and it is written in the bible.I don't think tithing should be categorized under false doctrine.and as I said earlier,giving to God isn't the same as alms giving.

Secondly and quite importantly for you.The Jews don't believe that Malachi is written to just one tribe,but to them all.Infact,the book says it is addressed to Isreal.It however gives some specific instructions to Levi,Judah and then the whole house.And each instruction affect us as new testament believers because technically,we are
1.The Isreal of God
2.Priests(seperate unto God with our high priest Jesus leading us)
3.Kings(of the house of Judah with the lion of the tribe leading us)

Lets hear Malachi
Mal 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
This book is addressed to Isreal,not only Levi.Then chapter 2v1 says somethings to the priests which all of the tribes and all God's children can gain from.v10begins to talk to the people of Judah and then includes the whole nation as the message continues.
Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
There is promise of reward for defaulters watever tribe and he says ye sons,not just levi.Notice the pronouns that follow.The 'we s and ye s'.
Mal 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even[b] this whole nation[/b].
not just levi,the whole nation.The blessings that follow say 'nations shall call you blessed'.Thats talking to the whole nation,not one tribe and it goes on and on tillthe last verse of the book.The promise to send the messenger,thats to not just one tribe.
I pray God will open your eyes and heart and ear.

Permit me to help you.In many ways, you are wrong but I 'll show you two.
Firstly;all christians in the Christ Jesus are priests and Christ is our high priest,so God is addressing you directly in Malachi,
1Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
also see
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
So my bro priest,pay your tithes.

KunleOshob:
@ Pastor dadifixone
Haba pastor, how long are you going to continue preaching this scam despite all the biblical evidence against it? Go and read Malachi 2 : 1 - 8 it is very evident there that it was the levite priests that were being accused of robbing God and leading the people astray just as pastors like you are doing today.

There you go again,Why is it many of us find it easy to claim scriptures like Psalms23 and 91 and keep saying it.Nobody says Paul was refering to the pholippians when they quote Philippians 4v19.But when the carnal flesh sees something it doesn't like then we begin to hear 'thats old testament,he was addressing the women in corinth at that time,he was speaking to levites'etc.I pray you mature spiritually to the level when you understand that every word of God is pure and profitale.
By the way,who told you that the book of Malachi was written to the Levites only.Tell me,did you hear it,did you read it yourself in the bible or some magazine(the news,ovation,tell,citypeople) told you?

@Kunle@seguno
why do you guys have to come and try to discourage people from doing good.If you're not convinced about paying tithes,then keep that to yourself and seek counsel,instead of treating the tithe payers like they are blasphemers.We have so many people doing vividly wrong things even here on nairaland,why not go show those people some truth instead of drawing people away from their bible based beliefs.The Word says
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
So beware

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Kunle,femi1,seguno,horus,mc usman
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hello friends,this thread is desperate for a reply

KunleOshob:
@EOA
stop quoting the bible out of context the weightier things being refered to in you last post is the Jugdement and love of God and i still maintain that there is no were in the bible that remotely suggests that tithes is 10% of your income (that is also quoting the bible out of context)

your most beloved quote, deut 14v22 'suggests that tithes is 10% of your income'
Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Harvest came year by year and still does for farmers today.They were required to give a tithe(one tenth) of their increase/harvest/profit/proceeds.Its english man,they all refer to the same thing,
Tithe was before the law(scripture says tithe was paid even when levi,not to mention Moses was in the loins of his great grandpa),so even if the law has been abolished in the sense in which you feel,it doesn't affect tithes.God'll give you grace brother.

Hi,Kunle.Long time.wer you go.You should take some time and unbiased mind to read through the replies thet have been posted on this thread while you were away.as I've stated earlier,if you want to pay your tithes in terms of crops and oil,I believe you 're free But I think we have grace to pay our tithes today the way it best suits us(with cash).We no more live in an agrarian society bro.Also,get your priorities right.are you confused about wether we should pay tithes 2day OR what form we should pay it in?Be clear and sincere

and for people new to this thread or visiting after a long time,I suggest you try to read at least a majority of the previous posts before you start typing your replies.don't behave like all this garage boys that just jump into things without even noing the matter at hand.It will save us from unnecesarily expanding this thread.
let us  Titus 3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

@seguno you said
Thanks for referring to the commandment "Thou shall not steal".
In Naija church speak, this has been qualified, as you have just emphasised, to mean:
Thou shall not steal from God (=church = pastor). However the pastor turns a blind eye if you steal from your neighbour, employer, government, fellow citizens through corruption.
As long as you pay your unrequired tithe and/or hefty offerings therefrom, you not only get the front seats and priviledged access to the pastor, you also become a church leader. See the last paragraphs of the story in the link below:"


We need to place our priorities right.The question is 'Is it biblical to pay tithes ' not is it nigerian.we pay tithes as to God not as to men.Let God be true and every man a liar.We get God's blessings for paying tithes and for giving,we are not looking for man's blessings,so we are not looking as if we are giving to man when we give.Stealing is stealing whatever form it takes,whether one steals from government,or bank, or from parents,or from God or from white man.My own pastor doesn't place such emphasis as you wrote of.If your pastor places emphasis on stealing from God or him,it doeosn't make stealing more right or wrong.stealing is sin watever emphasis may be placed.No true child of God,not to mention pastor will support stealing of any form or magnitude.
Zaccheus restitution and vow to give 50% of his goods to the poor doesn't suggest that He didn't pay tithes before or later.today we have thieves who pay tithes now.Tithe is 10% of what you earn,not 50% of what you have.As I said earlier,tithes to God is different from alms giving or personal gifts. 

Idon't have to wonder why the chief priests  killed Jesus,the inspired word of God says it at lease twice.
Mat 27:18  For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. He knew,not felt,not tot,he knew

finally,the veil of holy of holies wasn't destroyed when Christ died.lets say what the Bible says and be sincere with our hearts,not just pulling scriptures out to support us,rather lets humble ourselves and pull ourself to support scripture.It says thveil was rent into two.This signifes that we can now come boldly before the throne of grace through Jesus Christ.It doesn't sinify don't pay tithes!The Bible is consistent on paying of tithes has you've read earlier.and the churches( true and fake) say pay your tithes.Let Him that has ear to hear hrear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.We are one body and You don't need to isolate yourself and say,"the body isn't righteous,i wouldn't fulfil my obligations'.Do your part and pray for odas to do their parts.God bless you

the scriptures say
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
so I believe a true Christian should only deal with spiritual songs.And we should have it in mind that not all gospel is true gospel.It should be with grace in the heart,both of the artiste and the listener.
Pro 10:32 The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable: but the mouth of the wicked speaketh frowardness.
We need the help of God's righteousnesss in us to discern sometimes when we are confused

How important is the answer to you?What does it do for you or change in you?

Sorry,I almost 'missed your post' on Matt19.Try to read the story welllll.A man came to Jesus and said what can i do to have eternal life.Then the Lord,it may suprise you says "keep the commandments".The man says which.Jesus begins to mention, ,among which he says thou shall not steal(not paying tithes was considered stealing according to the OT),The man then says,'I do all these'.And Jesus loved him.He told Him, to be 100% go and sell and give to the poor and come and follow me.I think that's the story.
Jesus told him to keep the commands and he said he has and Jesus loved him.Its also good for us to consider that what he was to sell was not his income(they were to tithe thier income I think),if anything this was his outcome.
For benefit of doubt,go to Matthew 23v1-3.Jesus says something interesting to his disciples.I'm praying God will give you all the grace to pay your tithes and to do the right at all times.

seguno2:
@ Kola,

Just in case you missed what I posted earlier:

1. Matthew 19:21 about the rich man to whom Jesus said "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor (not the temple/synagogue/church or even Jesus & His apostles)". This same message is recorded in Mark 10:21.

Does it not occur to you that if there was a law on tithe to be upheld, Christ would have told the rich man above to first pay his tithe before giving to the poor.
He did not because there is no such law to be upheld. Read the deut 14 : 22 -29 very well.

there is a simplicity we have in Christ today(2cor11v3) that some Christians don't like.its unfortunate that many need FULL proof before obedience to simple almost insignificant(matt23v23) commands.This is contrary to the faith of most of the saints of old.They didn't have the 'show me where,are you sure,I'm not convinced' attitude.Its hard 4me to reason how you 'll say you can gladly give 100% or more to yourself and the 'poor' and you find it sacrilege to give just 10% to those of the household of God.
Anyway,lets remember that scripture must agree with scripture,Deut14:22-29 shouldn't be taken in isolation.In the bible,there are different types of tithes just as there are different types of offerings.Tithes are even sometimes classed under offerings.Recall 'bring ye ALL the tithes'?Let me quickly point out 3 different tithes in the law. Tithes to the levite in the temple(see deut12v5,6 or numbers18v21),tithes to levites and poor around you at home(see deut14v27-29),tithe for even youself(See deut12v17),tithes for God(nehemiah10v38,39),
I don't love going into history but for you,understand that there was a first tithe that was given to the Levites, out of which they paid a tenth part to the priests, Num18:24-28; Neh10:37, Neh10:38. Then of that which remained, the owners separated a second tithe, which they ate before the Lord the first and second year; and in the third year it was given to the Levites and to the poor, Deut14:28, Deut14:29. In the fourth and fifth years it was eaten again by the owners, and in the sixth year was given to the poor. The seventh year was a Sabbath to the land, and then all things were common, Exo_23:10, Exo_23:11.
Notice the progression explained above again.Deut14:22 says "tithe ALL" year after year(each year).then verses23-26 says eat second tithe with your household in Jerusalem,then verse27-29 says tithe(simply meaning one tenth) to levites[NB;not levite priests in Jerusalem] around you and the poorSaround you.

Once again,please note the different time frames and the different groups of people they were to offer tithes to.Now as believers,its important we realise that giving of alms is DIFFERENT from giving to GOD.We shouldn't compare our generous giving to the poor to our giving to God.God is not a beggar,He demands your tithes.Infact He accuses of robbery.That isn't to say that He is desperate for it.He wants us to give alms to the poor around us today and He also wants us to pay our tithes and offerings into HIs house.The world was majorly an agrarian society until recently some centuries ago.today,unlike then, they say the world is all about the benjamins.But if you are a farmer and you feel compelled to bring a tithe of your crops and not money,i think your church might accept it.But if you aren't, I think the most convenient one-tenth of your income will be money.God be with you

Fileki:
these replies had really been interesting . . . just want read more.

hi,I believe you should have read enough to convince you.Ask God for grace to pay your tithes.We all need grace to keep God's commands.There will always be excuses not to keep the commands

Wordsmith:
True talk doe. . .

Your post was very much on point. . .

thanks,what do you think is the cause and can there be any repairs?

Friends,I noticed something.A pious Christian outside Nigeria may complete the thread topic in his/her mind as something like 'Christian! What the Father(God) expects of us.’ But here in Nigeria unfortunately, a large percentage of we Christians (pious or not) are likely to think of among other things of a sentence like ‘Christian! What the Bleep’
Bleep: is a taboo,an offensive word, a curse word,a swear word. Among many evil meanings,it  means to make someone angry, very unhappy and confused so that they cannot control their life.
In the Western world (north America and friends), people are very cautious with the word ‘mess’. Even their ‘corrupt’ media, censors the word in writing, in music, in lyrics, in interviews, in speeches etc. Their musicians and Hollywood stars are cautious of saying it in public. It is a hate word.you don’t say it to your friends. And you hardly find Christians with such words in their vocab.
  Back home in Nigeria,the case is different. Here, tight friends can tell one another ‘mess you’.Anything goes wrong (your car won't start,NEPA/PHCN takes light,you're late) and the magic F-word comes out.Our musicians and popular actors are trigger happy with such words(If a popular person in the West i.e abroad said that on air formally,it would be on every news tabloid the next day).
Then I noticed that even Christians say it.Pastors are not left out in saying it and 'it doesn't sound offensive'.If you live in Nigeria, its common to hear and say words like "NEPA mess up yesterday men,Come early don't mess up oo,You no come service man you mess up,I can't make it to the CHIOR practice because my car/gen is bleeped,Pastor bleeped up o he didn't come sha".blah bla blah.
Are you also caught in this web or know of  someone who is?Why is such an F-word okay in naija?Is it because we have a 'different' culture OR maybe we've being listening to the wrong people and watching the wrong films OR are we not as vigilant,watchful and sober as the Lord wants us to be?
Please,I'll like to see your unbiased comments.I'll appreciate it even more if the comments are Biblical.What do YOU think?

seguno2:
Is that what is happening in today's Naija churches: thoroughly furnished unto all good works
I do not see that, which is why I have found alternative means of fulfilling God's instruction to me and I am grateful to Him for His unfailing faithfulness.

If you don't see good works happening in any church in nigeria,well maybe you haven't looked well enuf.remember Elijah,he didn't know of the 70 clean prophets.It isn't much of your duty to assess the way churches are been managed.leave that to God,the owner of the church and pay your money not as unto men but as unto God.Col3v23.David respected Saul,not because of saul but because of God.and maybe you should find prayerfully another church.we have some really good biblical churches in Nigeria.

seguno2:
@seguno2

How many times did Abraham pay tithes to Melchidezec?
Was it a practice or a one-off?
Does the fact that Abraham paid it one-off not correspond to the every three years stipulated in deut 14 : 22 -29?

Further, once the pastor has enough food (basic needs) in God's store (his household)and he does not re-distribute and is seen to re-distribute the surplus to poor people & foreigners then you will be ignoring your duty as a christian to either correct him or reduce your tithe to him accordingly.

Just another example of what Christendom has turned into by most of its leaders:

http://www.saharareporters.com/www/report/detail/?id=510

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
   As Christians,we do not need to have our orders repeated severally before we obey them.One mention is correct and enough.It might be repeated for emphasis sake but repetition doesn't make it more true.The fact that father Abraham paid tithes is enough for me,I'm a child of Abraham and his blessings are mine.The fact that Jesus said the religious people ought to pay tithes and not leave the other undone is enough for me.I don't need a 7 point apologia on tithes from Paul or anybody again.I don't even need it to be repeated in all the other gospel books.One instruction in righteousness from the master is enough for me.I'm His sheep,thats why.Not a goat

Heb 8:1  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 7:1  For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2  To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
        Profile of Melchizedek,a very great person[/b]Heb 7:4  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
         [b]The great Abraham PAID TITHES to this Greater person

Heb 7:5  And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6  But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
              He starts to nail His pro Jesus defence as being better than Levi priesthood.He says, Jews,Levites are to take your tithes but there is someone levi paid tithe to.A greater priest Melchizedek,so Jews Levi isn't alpha and omega[/b]Heb 7:8  And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
                                [b]The Levites aren't eternal

Heb 7:9  And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10  For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
                         [b] see jews, The levites paid tithes in Abraham.There is someone higher in rank,they are less blessed by the greater.They aren't ultimate,Christ is![/b]Heb 7:11  If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
                  [b] He's refering to the Psalms110v4(a prophecy about a priest to come after the type of Melchizedek,not after Aaron).He has given proof(to the unbiased jew) that Christ is beta than Levi.He continues with the main theme.NT is beta than OT,Christ is better than OT laws given under Moses ratified by the Levitical priesthood. Levitical sacrifices arenot the goal,Christ's sacrifice is.[/b]Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13  For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14  For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15  And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchizedek there ariseth another priest,
                                        The law changed is seen in v16.He says Jesus is the priest that was prophesied of.His own covenant is ratified by the sacrifice of himself,not bulls and goats.the priest has changed,the sacrifice has changed,the conditions(law) has changed.The ceremonial laws of cleaniness(clean and unclean animals,unclean humans that need to be put apart for, days,washed u know),heave,burnt,wave etc offerings,feast of this and that ,many of those leviticus laws have to of a necessity be changed.
Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17  For he testifieth, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 7:18  For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
                           All those laws made nothing perfect.Its not in any way refering to tithes as making nothing perfect.He is taliking of those ceremonial laws.Compare 10v1.
I'm sure you know the rest of the story.I pray God 'll give you understanding.

KunleOshob:
Image123 i am beginning to suspect that you are a pastor who benefits from tithes and specializes in quoting the bible out of context otherwise when you were quoting hebrews 7 you would not have left out verses 11-13 which stated that "it was on the basis of the levitical priesthood that the law was given to the people of israel" it also said "the levitical law must change" because the levitical priesthood is of a lower order to the priesthood of our lord Jesus christ. it also stated that jesus christ is not from the tribe of levites that collects tithes. It is preachers like image 123 that consistenly manupulate the bible to suit their purposes. As far as i know everything thing i have written in this articule is the undiluted word of God and not what somebody as manupulated it to be, and that is why i backed everything i wrote with the scriptures. if anyone is in doubt please pick up your bibles and crosscheck

Hi,Kunle.lets take it easy here.One I'm not a pastor of a church,I'm a christian bro.The fact that tithes are being abused 2day doesn't make it wrong.same goes for miracles,healings,prayers,deliverance,tongues etc
2Co 2:17  For we are not as many, hawking the Word of God; but as of sincerity, but as of God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.
Now,I want to believe you are a child of God and not just some athiest babbler looking for debate.As children of God,of course we learn everytime and there is no crime in it when you have new understanding of the word of God on any area.But we need to be sincere and ready to learn.Firstly,I'll like to be clearer on your discuss.Are you saying that it isn't biblical to pay tithes today OR are you saying tithes today shouldn't be in form of currency but as tithe of crops,oil etc 'as in OT times'?Those are 2 different views you know?
Secondly,when I quoted Hebrews 7,I quoted the verses that I thot were relevant to my point,I wasn't trying 2 manipulate you.I thought I didn't need to comment on the whole chapter but on specific verses that summmarized the passage.You need to read the whole book of Hebrews Kunle,not just 7verse11-13,so as 'not to leave anything out' as you said.The book of Hebrews is written to show the superiority of Christ,the mediator of the new (better) covenant.The Hebrews(Jews) had and still av a strong belief in the old covenant which was started during the time of Moses.They revere the old covenant.Even the Jewish converts to Christainity still found it difficult to leave their old ways and hold on to Jesus only and so the writer of the epistle(God) tried to help them.Hebrews1v4  tells us that Jesus is better than the angels,then 2v9 tells us it is better than any man,3v3 says he is better than Moses,then he is a better high priest than Aaaron and consequently a better priest than Levi(d levites).He says Christ is a better priest because His priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek,a man who Levi's Ggrandfather(Abraham) paid tithes to.Tithes aren't really the issue that was focused here but the beta Christ priest as against Levite priestsLets talk small Hebrews7

KunleOshob:
Thank you seguno2 for your contribution, you seem to understand the issue at stake more than the average commentator who is just passionate about the issue and has not bothered to understand what tithes really means or what God truly requires from us. I challenge everybody especially image 123 to read again deuteronomy 14: 22 - 29 which clearly explains what tithes is and also states clearly that it is not money becuase it is meant to be eaten in the presence of God. The ironic thing is that this passage also states that you could use your tithes for whatever your heart desires which could be food, meat or wine it doesn't say you must pay it to the church. I also challenge any body to point out the place in the bible were tithe was stated to be money, because money existed in those days contrary to what some peolpe would like you to believe. Even the book of Malachi which is quoted so often never defined tithes nor did it suggest it was money Tithes was defined in the book of deuteronomy and leviticus and neither of them suggested it was money. The definiton given to tithes is a mordern day invention to suit the convinience of those collecting it. As i said earlier to all those who feel aggrieved by the revelations they should go back to the bible and do a thorough study using the quoted scriptures as a guide. As i said i am not against anybody giving to the church or contributing to God's work, what i can't stand is the fraudulent way in which the meaning and purpose of tithes as been misinterpreted.

hi,kunle.I've read it .it isn't a definition of tithes,it is a type.There are various forms of tithe.Tithe itself is a form of offering.See Gen14v20,Gen28v22,Numbers18v21,24Matthew23v23,Lev27v30-32 etc

daychris:
my opinion is that; if you know you still want to have the church wedding, then forget about sexual enjoyment until then. but if you know you can"t wait till then, forget about church wedding and be content with your traditional wedding, 'because you can"t deceive God.

Pls,I want to ask,who joins a couple together at a traditional wedding ceremony?