₦airaland Forum

i just skimmed through and read that the atheism religion is as porous as the Nigerian border, now that's funny.

[quote author=A-town]Why is it that these spirits are only peculiar to Africa? Do we serve a different God? Why is it that the "Oyinbos" that actually "BROUGHT" religion to us never have these spiritual husbands/wives.
People lets wake up and stop deceiving ourselves. If you're having symptoms, please go see a DOCTOR. You may have a previously undetected illness. There is no such thing as spiritual spouse. Chikena.[/quote]this is sublime ignorance on the net. It's not a phenomena limited to Africa or Africans. Use those megabytes please.

and where is Gosh? Oh it's the usual ignore the posts and points,make them go away, then re-raise the same issues on a new thread. These folks perfectly hold the ever learning and never able to come to knowledge trophy.

i agree with Jo on this one. i believe in God though, not in devils.

debosky: Departure yes - voluntary or otherwise? That is my question. If the latter, how do we deal with this? How do we bring such people into the Christian fold, understanding the bible's clear rejection of homosexuality? How do we bring them into the fold without going against our beliefs? That is my concern.

They first need to KNOW that they have a problem, that it's not normal. This is a critical step in solving problems. Initially recognise you have a problem, instead of trying to justify it.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]This is what I don't understand. Why do we have to die first? Isn't there a way for us to know while we're still alive?[/quote]you can know if you're inspired by God.

hehehe have you been able to prove that there is no God? when you die, you'll know, don't be so bothered like us na.

so what if the child has a urge to get married, or drive a car, or change toy guns to real guns?
If a male child is girly(whatever that means) it could be a natural defect like someone born with hunchback, deafness, a transmitted disease etc. That something is 'natural' in a child doesn't make it right or God-given.

debosky: Settled at law - on the basis of what evidence? Many Christians (e.g. TVO1) don't accept your idea that sexual identity is inherent to a person. Furthermore, no such law is 'settled' in Nigeria for example.

The interpretation of bible scholars is based on the premise that homosexuality is neither inherent nor a human right. The view is that this is a perversion - a departure from 'nature'.

actually the view is a departure from 'godly' or normal. To be more precise.

oh i see that the divisive spirit inside frosb has forced him to open another thread where he feigns ignorance of anything explained here, and manipulating people by saying tithes is for widows. And the circle continues, absolute madness.

Goshen360: @ all, I'm waiting for Image123 to respond to my answers on his Old covenant question before I expose their falsehood further.

words that show your mind is already blocked irrespective of what may be said. That's the reason we often leave you to yourself initially.

debosky: I appreciate your honest view on this. However, I do have a question or two - the manner of a 'sickness' arising determines how it is dealt with - e.g. if it's through 'contamination'/external contraction, you treat the illness and avoid further contamination. Do you think we need better understanding of the origins/causes in order to deal with the 'sickness', and are Christians really interested in that?

i'm stunned as to why the op thinks this is a derailment of his thread.

@zikky:
Have decided to respond to this copy & paste. This is a pastor talking with the intention of further confusing the already 'confused' followers. How can anybody say tithing for Christians is not a matter of bondage? It is easy for the author to say this because he is likely to be the beneficiary. if it was bondage for the jews (they did not do it out of love), how can Christians perform similar act out of love? any act that negates freewill giving is bondage! and tithing based on pastoral threat/coercion/recommendation is one of them. Have told you before, when you tell somebody that would ordinarily give 30% to give 10% you have only succeeded in legalizing that giving, cos he is giving a recommended amount and not what his heart tells him to do. same applies to the man that ordinarily can afford to give 5%, you have only succeeded in stretching him beyond his giving capability. That my friend is bondage.

Tithing was not bondage for the Jews, the keeping of the law was bondage for them, and it is for anybody without God's grace. The pharisee heartily chirped about giving tithes of all that he possessed, it seems it was a piece of cake for him. For you today, what does Jesus have to say?
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What does that suggest? Higher, not lower. more than, not less than. Tithing does not negate freewill giving. Tithing can be done with freewill. Nobody is condemning freewill giving or even giving to the poor. [size=13pt]Newsflash, we also do it[/size].

@Boomar:
This is what the king is telling you, Bidam, image, ola, pastors and co. we are not after your money. Lavish it on these people and make God happy. This is what the High priest demands from you, he never asked for your tithe. Ignorance can make one place his pastor's demands over that of our High priest.

Jesus said He is not the poor, do not equate Offering with alms giving.
Mar 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.

@debor:
Sir, that 'concise' description has some inconsistencies - there is no mention of tithe in 1 Cor 9:14, neither is there any mention of tithing in 1 Cor 16:2. If tithing was not mentioned during those two instances, how can anyone claim God 'commissioned it' and Paul 'conformed it' in those two passages?

A concise response to these two queries will be much appreciated.

You are here?
1Co 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 [size=14pt]Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel[/size].
Paul is talking about material/carnal things like money, and how those in the temple enjoy tithes and offerings. He was asking "Do you know?" It seems you are yet to know, study hard ehn. Are tithes and offerings not things of the temple? In the same vein, even so, ministers today can live of the gospel. It's no crime or wrong.

1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
The phrase "as God hath prospered him" is indicative of proportional giving. Tithes fit this phrase like a round peg in a round hole.

@Frosb:
arrogant, pompous hypocrite who masquerades as a Christian

Ahh, you too dey here? i thought you had changed to an atheist handle in shame or something, thank God there is still some hope.

@debo:
As your brother Image123 likes to say, that based on Hebrews, people were giving tithes in the time of Paul and the apostles and were not condemned. In the same time of Paul and the apostles, people were sacrificing animals and were not condemned either.

Based on this 'timelessness', surely we can also say animal sacrifices is also a biblical injunction that we should continue - Jesus never condemned it.

So you actually agree that Jesus and the apostles never condemned tithes? Animal sacrifices were fulfilled by Jesus. Jesus is now a BETTER sacrifice. Your tithes are yet to be fulfilled, they are in your pocket, pay them. Jesus did not pay your tithes for you. When we say "He paid it all", we are referring to your sins and punishment, not your house rent, utility bills or offerings.

@zikkyy:
When the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel just as the priest of old lived of the things of the temple and what was sacrificed on the altar, he was not saying preachers should be living of burnt offerings and other stuff contributed to the temple. The only similarity is preachers being sustained through the gospel. i.e receiving sustenance via the gospel just as the priests received theirs from ministering at the temple.

This is what we have been saying all these years. It's you and your folks that have been insisting that pastors must receive only animals and plants. Did someone hack your account, or you're seeing the light? you too can get up instead of remaining seated in the dark. Light is here. The people which sat in darkness saw great light. It's your turn.

@kunle:
Jesus never had kind words for rogues, scribes, pharisees and merchandisers of religion like you rodents.

Stop blackmailing Jesus in a bid to justify your depravities. Jesus is the Judge of the world, you are not. And Jesus was not a false accuser, neither did He go about with nothing to say except to call people hideous names like you are doing.

@zikky:
Of course it's useful. what is useful in biblical tithing (under mosaic law for e.g.) is not the strict adoption of percentages, it is about contributing to the need of those dedicating their time to spreading the gospel.

This is not nonsense, if i may say. BTW, you seem to have a lot of anger in your blood, dump the tension.

christemmbassey: pls sir, do you mind to answer my question? God bless.

what is your question again sweetie?

Here was my question; Gosh, what is the old covenant? try to be concise thanks. i asked that question so that perhaps we may learn a thing or two, instead of the usual circle. i've previously insisted that most people do not understand the law. And if you do not understand the law, you will continue to stumble at it. i find this as the chief reason why some folks here are having issues. The unchanging word of God says Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Also note that this is a new testament passage saying this. Not to mention older parts that are more embarrassing to those that stumble at the law, parts like
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

A covenant is simply an agreement. The old covenant is simply the old agreement. This is almost all that is needed, it is the foundation that anybody even a child can understand. It is on it that every other thing rests, as it were. Missing this simple meaning can prove costly to understanding and lead one into long and vain jangling.
In the Bible, there are various agreements, not just two. this should be known and established so that we don't mix or mistake one for another. The old agreement or old covenant is not Genesis to Malachi, or Genesis to John, as some schools of thought are proposing. the new agreement or new covenant is not Matthew to Revelation or Acts to Revelation. That would amount to a confused and confusing generalisation and an erroneous oversimplification.
Consider sincerely, different covenants/agreements in the Old testament for instance.
1. Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Obviously, this is a covenant. It is not the Old Covenant, though found in the Old Testament. It is a standing covenant till date. It is God's covenant, God's agreement with Noah, us and every living thing that He(God) would not destroy the whole earth with a flood again. Jesus Christ or christianity does not cancel this covenant.

2. Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Here is another covenant/agreement. This is not the old covenant in question. this is God's agreement, contract, promise with Abraham to give him the land of Canaan. It's a standing covenant till date. We can't just say "the old covenant is cancelled" for this one. This is also in the Old Testament but it is not the old covenant. It still applies. i'm being extra.. here so that we START TO avoid making sweeping statements about the old testament because we find some passage that says the old covenant is cancelled.
Exo 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that [size=18pt]the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul[/size], that it should make the promise of none effect.



3. Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
This is yet another covenant found in the old testament. It is the circumcision covenant. This agreement has been upgraded as it were. God wants the circumcision of the heart instead, not foreskins.
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
As for the other circumcision, made with hands, of foreskins. It is now irrelevant IN JUSTIFICATION. Circumcision doesn't and cannot justify/save us. Only Jesus can justify us. Circumcision is nothing whether you do it or not. But if you do it, don't do it to be justified in God's sight, its pretty useless for that purpose.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
There is no sin in being circumcised, Paul was, Jesus was, Timothy was. There is nothing wrong with not being circumcised too.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
Circumcision is no longer a must.

4. Gen 21:27 And Abraham took sheep and oxen, and gave them unto Abimelech; and both of them made a covenant.
Here is another covenant in the Old Testament. It is not the Old covenant in question. Here is an agreement, pledge, covenant between Abraham and King Abimelech. Other men also had covenants in the Old testament so we should not lump them all together. there is also the salt covenant, the sabbath covenant etc.
Gen 26:28 And they said, We saw certainly that the LORD was with thee: and we said, Let there be now an oath between us, even between us and thee, and let us make a covenant with thee;
Gen 31:44 Now therefore come thou, let us make a covenant, I and thou; and let it be for a witness between me and thee.
It should be basically obvious by now that a covenant is simply an agreement.
Exo 23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.


5. Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exo 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
Haha, there it is. This is the OLD covenant in question Remember the parallel New found in the New Testament during the supper, when Jesus said "Mar 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many. "
Or better yet, check up Hebrews 9v18-23. This is the new covenant, testament, agreement being contrasted with the Old. What is the Old covenant/agreement so that we are clear? The Old agreement is not the Word of God in the Old Testament Bible. Rather, it is the the covenant/agreement, which the LORD hath made concerning all these words. You may have to re-read the last 3 or so sentences for clarity. The agreement(Old) was that the people of God were to keep the Word of God, then God will save them. Of course now, in retrospect we know that it is impossible to keep them all for salvation. God made that agreement to show them and us that we can't do anything to merit salvation. We'd fail, we'd fall short in some point. It's the exact thing Jesus was showing the rich young man that wanted to DO something to inherit salvation. Jesus in His superior knowledge gave him a commandment more that he couldn't keep. The Old covenant/agreement was keep My commandments and I will save you, or bless you, or justify you, or be happy with you etc. The New agreement, testament, covenant is I will save you, or bless you, or justify you, or be happy with you etc because of Jesus' blood, and keep my commandments. Can you try to spot the difference? The issue, the problem, the focus is not the commandment or law. the focus is the agreement, the covenant.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Lev 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
Lev 26:16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

It is plain that the words of the agreement were God's instructions. That is, keep My instructions and I will bless you. Break my instructions, you will be punished. There is almost no mention of tithes in all of these. Thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness, thou shall not covet etc. These are part of the ten commandments. These commandments are not useless or cancelled. The covenant/agreement is. Today, thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness, thou shall not covet. But we are not doing/keeping all these commandments to be justified or saved or blessed. We are in the new agreement where we are first blessed, saved, justified, then we do His will. And God's Word is God's will. He says, I am the Lord, I change not. His Word and His will have not changed. The agreement/covenant has.

We still share God's Word, promises and even covenants with Israel. He(Christ) died to make both one, not aliens. We both have an inheritance in Abraham.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

In the Old agreement, the law was written on tables of stone and placed in the ark of the covenant. In the New covenant, the law(s) is not cancelled but written and ingrained into the heart.
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; [size=18pt]I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts[/size]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Not only is the law written in the heart, it is higher, more, and graced.
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The New Covenant is not cheaper, it is everlasting.

okay i have me some time, let's see what we have here. In a dilemma as to whether to lump them all together or post one one creating streams. i trust the most to avoid this posts like a trailer or give some dismissive one line remark, proving yet again their insincerity and unwillingness to face the real truth about tithes.

@Goshen:

"Every scripture applies to the church".

Then you should start apply scriptures that tells you to stone people to death. You should start apply scriptures that tells you to kill your children when in rebellion against you. You should start apply scriptures that doesn't allow you to mix more than one cloth materials or mix more than one farming. You should start apply scriptures that tells you to kill animals for sacrifices. Going back to before the law, you should start applying burnt offerings, marrying more than one wife after all, your Abraham you hold dearly for pre-tithe married two wives. ALL of these things applies to you - start doing them.

"Apply" is used in the sense of being "useful". No scripture is useless but All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable, except you do not believe that the instances you are referring to is not scripture.

@Goshen:
I can't believe what you wrote up there! . Seriously, this is unbelievable. You're insulting the Grace of our Lord Jesus with what you wrote there. What is the difference between Jesus CHOOSING DISCIPLES and by empowerment, turned into APOSTLES compared with Jesus addressing the Pharisees and scribes? Are you taking your examples from Christ or from Pharisees and scribes? - If that's the case, then go on with that because you will be doing the same the scribes and pharisees were doing - turning the law into what God never intended with the law and adhering to the law while Grace and truth already came by Jesus Christ.

Apostle Paul said, "Follow me as I follow Christ" or "imitate me as I imitate Christ". Following Paul's example IS AS THOUGH FOLLOWING CHRIST'S EXAMPLE. You don't even know when Christ is teaching to establish what the Apostles will further carry on into the new testament that will start after the death of Christ and when Christ is correcting or rebuking an act - I doubt you know the difference. The thing we see in Matthew 23:23 is Christ REBUKING pharisees and scribes for the careful observant of the law but lacking the TRUE meaning, purpose and intention of the law (in this case, of tithing).

Where do you find the bolded in the quote? We can learn from others, release yourself from your pride. Like i said, we can learn from ants, and like Ola reminded us, Jesus told us to learn from lilies and grass and birds. Here is Matthew 23v23 again so that we are clear what was said. Observe the last phrase carefully.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
What we truly see in Matthew 23 is Jesus addressing His disciples and others.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Beware of 'PRIVATE INTERPRETATION'.

The brother is talking from scriptures (Hebrews 9:15-20) and NOT STANDING on Matthew 23:23 like you.

Don't you understand yet that Matthew 23v23 is also scriptures, and that the scriptures cannot be broken?
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

@zikkyy:
you are confused. there is nothing like limiting the word here. it was image123 that told me tithe belong to God. the only tithe that belonged to God is tithe according to Mosaic Law, so what tithe are you paying? if you are paying tithe before or after the law, you are paying the one that belongs to your pastor

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Tithe belongs to God, we both know the tithe being referred to here, so quit deceiving the gallery. It is the tenth given to the minister in God's house.

you see yourself tithing is before the law, yet you always run back to tithing according to the law to justify your illegal practice you see yourself na

It's more accurately tithing according to the prophets. If you consider Malachi as law, why leave out Genesis na? Just an aside anyway.

@chrissey:
@Bidam, 123 and Ola. Pls answer bro Goshen's questions na? The TITHE you ppl are collecting, is rt the pre-law tithe, that Melcihizedeck collected along the ROAD, or mosaic tithe, the one the levites collected inside the temple?

There is no tithe i am collecting, sorry.

why dont they also do animal sacrifice, because pre- law-animal sacrifice is 'more' biblical than tithe, afterall, God commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac which he latter replaced with a Ram(GEN 22) SO IF THEY MUST COLLECT TITHE because TITHE PRE DATE THE LAW, THEY MUST ALSO PERFORM ANIMAL SACRIFICE because ABRAHAM ALSO SACRIFICED ANIMAL TO GOD.

Something replaced the sacrifices in the new testament, i hope you know what it was because i do. The problem is that nothing replaced tithes.

Let me post jare, i don't want to join the covenant talk to these.

thehomer: According to you now, faith = evidence. Therefore belief = evidence. Yes Image123 has solved the problem. Sure you pray that I see him. Surely God would listen to you before he listens to me. The 500 is just a literary technique that is often used in stories so that others would believe the claims made. So Jesus cannot invest 3 days of his infinite life into me?

Ooops, sorry, i wasn't defining faith. iguess it(the sentence) would be rendered better as Faith is an evidence. i was replying to what you said that "What we have is reason and evidence." i showed that Reason may not be reliable or may be impaired, then i mentioned that Faith is evidence, or better still, Faith is an evidence. Christ appears to many believers today. Their witness(es) is evidence enough to you. Sorry for the mix caused.
i am not on a higher pedestal or opportunity than you are.You can pray, God wants you to.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


Jesus has been calling you for years now. He invested His life on the cross of calvary for you. He died for you. All you need to do is accept it.
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
This is not a literary technique that is often used in stories so that others would believe the claims made.

Err this is exactly what you said.



A thief takes the property that doesn't belong to them someone who admires other people's property may then decide to work hard to get what others have.

How about if God says kill persons C to Z? Will it be a sin not to kill them?

In context, i was picturing a thief, not an admirer. Like magnetizing other people's property, pick pocket stuff. The point been made was that some people are natural thieves, its in the blood/gene as it were. Some others learn theft, they naturally would not steal. They may do other stuff/sin like fornicating, even idolatry, but they may be principled and honest or hometrained. But due to bad influence, they join cults, bad gangs, become robbers. Theft can be picked up or learned, it can also be natural. The point again been driven is that being a natural homosexual doesn't make it right, just like been a natural deceiver, or a 'born killer'.
How about if God says kill persons C to Z? How about IF there is a God?

No I meant beauty in a sarcastic way.

You should enjoy biblical sarcasm. God will have mercy on all who confess to Him and give up sins.

What are you to do when you're asked the reason for your hope?

Are you asking me for the reason of my hope?

Do you think that one has to live how Bertrand Russell lived in order to be an atheist? Do you really think that you can live how he lived if you tried?

Do you think that one has to be like Jesus to be a true christian? Do you really think that anyone can live how He lived if one tried?
Now you mention any true atheist, i've given two popular sorry ones, Nietzsche and Russell. And give me a reason why they should be role models or mentors.

What is wrong with you? How can the seed be the man and become the man? You're just absolutely confused or just trying to support your ridiculous notion. How about the woman? Or does the man plant his seed in earth? Where did Saul's father plant Saul?

Is it not the seed that becomes the tree or fruit? The tree/man can be looked upon in retrospect as the seed. The mother is where the seed is planted into to yield as a man/fruit. Saul's father planted seed Saul into Saul's mother. It's the same thing your father and my father did. You are the seed of your father, and i am the seed of my father also.

Agriculture has its basis in biology and what you're saying is just absurd.

Do you understand basic agriculture and biology?

Nah you really don't because if you did, you'll notice just how ridiculous the notion of God you're presenting is. We're talking about a God that knew he was going to burn people in hell but deliberately set things up so that most of the people he loves will end up there. And most of those people will end up there for no reason other than the fact that they didn't know any better.

God can reveal himself today and end religious strife and division but he won't do it so that he will have the pleasure of cooking people in hell.

i'd rather be pro-active, and do what can be done from mine end. And at the end, i'll have done my best. What about you? God loves us all, but He can do without us.
Mar 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
God has revealed Himself and keeps revealing Himself on His terms. If you want Him hard enough, follow His terms.
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
When you need a job, you look at the requirements and meet up, when you need a house to rent, you look at the agreements and conditions, when you need Heaven and God, you look at the Word of God and comply. You don't blame God, you have to be pro-active. If there is any blame(which is needless, it is man, your ancestors, Adam and you.

The fact that those passages are personal correspondence is "inherent" in the Bible.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 6:24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Add the facts that the contents of the epistles show that they contained instructions to all including men and women and youths. And the truth of history that these epistles were actually passed around different churches as scripture, not personal correspondence. Christians think and know that they are all scripture, you think it is personal correspondence, who is deceiving who? That's actually a rhetorical question, you are deceiving yourself.

thehomer: Then actually show that it is a red herring. After all, you introduced the idea that the Bible being special lent some sort of credibility to it. There are lots of other sources for reasonable instructions but what is clear is that it isn't the Bible and that is the point I'm making. The NT is worse because it introduced hell.

All you need to do is go back and read my posts to confirm what i have said, that "Its a red herring and you are full of red herrings. i've consistently insisted on the point i was making but you seem more interested in talking about if the Bible is special or not." What are these other sources for reasonable instructions? Do you talk this much about these other books? If yes, please let me know what books those are. The NT is a completion of the whole book(the Bible). This is what i have been saying for weeks, that the books were in phases. The NT gives a clearer and more complete picture and meaning.

Obviously, you're the one who doesn't understand what words mean. Telling me that the divisions are already "inherent" is meaningless because as I'm sure you know, the Bible wasn't originally written in English but in several other languages. Now in those languages, did the writings contain spacing and paragraphs indicating where chapters and verses were to go? You dishonestly presented those quotes unless you think that the paragraphs indicated where chapters and verse were to be inserted.

You initially said that paragraphs and spaces were not there in the original manuscripts, didn't you? And you're going red yet again. You mentioned anything about english and other languages? Do you think that spaces and paragraphs are only found in english writings? Moral laws deal with right or wrong, ceremonial laws deal with cleansing of sin. Most of the laws are easily put under any of this two. Use your brain, or ask practical questions if you do not understand.
The colored is the issue being discussed, but i'll still not be dumbfounded if you're more interested in discussing lines and spaces.

Once again, you brought up the idea that God presented the Bible already sorted out in a certain manner but that claim is obviously false.

You lack understanding. It's almost COMMON sense to see the inherent differences in the laws/instructions. Some laws are once (like walking around Jericho or picking 300 men). Some instructions are continuous. Some instructions are for cleansing or ceremonial, like staying some place for seven days, killing a bird or a goat. Some laws are simply moral, like don't kill, don't steal. how you cannot/refuse to understand that is baffling.

Do you have actual examples of these people who accept it when you present terrible analogies? Seriously, you need to read up on how to present relevant analogies so you stop looking like you need remedial lessons in English.

And a link would convince you right? You need Jesus.

And what you wish to tell me is pointless and irrelevant. My point is that you do not have to be literate to actually touch a computer but according to your presentation of this supernatural, you need some special powers. Seriously how difficult was that to understand?

What? Faith = belief? This is the sort of muddled thinking that you seem to like. If you didn't think it was important, then why did you bring it up? Anyway, if God can make me believe a lie, how do you know he hasn't made you believe a lie? How do you know he isn't actually evil?

I'm sure that is why he has refused to reveal himself to those who would change their minds and believe him instead, he reveals himself to those who already believe.

Well, your point was poorly presented. All you need is to have hands and access before you actually touch a computer. You said 'interact with a computer'. Every human being can believe, we all have that capacity/ability. No special powers needed to believe. Faith is belief, i try to keep it simple and basic to help you understand and give you some perspective. i thought it pointless to speak 'lofty chinese' to someone who doesn't understand it. There was a time i did not believe in God, and every other born again christian. But we changed our minds. The reason why God will possibly make you believe a lie is already state and emboldened. It is because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Do you fit that picture yet? Again, God always reveals Himself to those who love the truth and sincerely want to know.

Once more, your ignorance on the origin of the Bible reveals itself. I hope you know that the books and collections that made it into the Bible were selected by a bunch of people in a meeting. For some reason, God has stopped giving inspiration so that for the past 1000 years, no more books or written works can get into the Bible.

All that needs to be said are already in the Bible. The Bible was written in phases, not at once, it spanned hundreds of years like you're seeming to know. Then it was collated. There is nothing to be added that has not being already said. All that we need for eternal life are in it. It is finished.

If you seriously want to claim that these are commandments, then are you willing to agree to turn your other cheek, give more when you're sued and if you're forced to do something, you do even more? You need some consistency if you're going to seriously introduce those sayings as commandments.

A wise God would be one that had the ability to make a decision based on the combination of knowledge, experience, and intuitive understanding.

Good of you, you now see the changes and the differences i was talking about. You're picking up.
i like your definition of a wise God. Fits the God of the Bible very well.

And I explained to you that random collections of personal correspondence won't cut it. Neither will that vision (whose point you seem to have missed) cut it.

The vision speaks of God telling Peter to eat formerly unclean animals. It cuts it. The book of 1Timothy and Acts are scripture, live with it.

More personal correspondence that didn't actually free slaves or abolish slavery.

Funny that Ephesians is personal correspondence, except where it can be seemingly used to show that the Bible God approved slavery. You deceive yourself a lot, after satan has done his own part.

A slave is different from a servant. e.g slaves are bought while servants are hired so your attempt at blurring the distinction fails woefully.

Woah, are they different? The Bible translators seem to used them(slave and servant) interchangeably. Are you saying that the chief characteristic or quality or determinant of a slave is being bought? i know many sportmen who are being bought, i do not think they are slaves, well perhaps maybe. Is it the buying that is paining you, or the title? i initially thought it was the title/tag, hence my boring talk that was 'blurring the distinction' Not sure if Abraham bought his slaves, even the Israelites. Anyway, lemme know what is pinching you in the shoe.

It suddenly becomes unimportant because it has you stumped?

The two passages are relevant today.

Don't you have faith enough for me? Since you believe, why don't you pray and make him show himself? I think that would be the easiest option.

Sorry dear, it's not easier than what i said. When you are ready to see Jesus, have faith. If you can believe, you will see. God wants a personal relationship with you. He's saying "Where are you thehomer?" He's knocking at the door of your heart. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Did I indicate otherwise? I said God himself didn't see it as a warning. This is why I keep telling you not to just take whatever was written as personal correspondence as coming straight from your God. God's aim was to remove evil from the earth.

Thank God for your life, the new testament said it was a warning. i sincerely thank God that you saw that all along. But this God's aim to remove evil from the earth, can you show me? Peter is personal correspondence but Moses is coming straight from God? Where did you get that? i've searched but i can't find this new revelation. All i found was this.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
nothing about God's aim to remove evil from the earth.

Not Jesus' or God's words but words of personal correspondence selected by some guys in a meeting to be in the Bible.

i don't get this new reds about selections by some guys in a meeting. Were Jesus' and God's words also selected at this meeting that you seem to be unhappy about?

I'm sorry but presenting these quotes as meaning that Jesus says all children will go to heaven indicates to me that you're either ignorant about metaphors, unable to consider abstract thought or just ignorant about Christian thought. After all, Jesus said "Suffer little children to come unto me . . . " by your reasoning can mean that you're supposed to torture children then kill them in order for them to get to heaven.

Shameful sentences. You need sackcloth and ashes, really.

March 1 Genesis 1v28

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


A good day to you there, God bless you. "God bless you", "God bless you", that is a pretty common phrase, isn't it? It's actually more of a meaningless cliche to many, and not an explainable or tangible expression to several minds. Coincidentally, today's passage happens to be the first place that this expression is used for humans. Blessing is all compassing care given us by God. God has blessed and still blesses the human race. A reflection on our fragility and paradox dominion shows the blessings of God on us.
Consider that man is about the weakest 'animal' on the earth surface and the most susceptible to diseases, stomach ache, headache and other aches. A human embryo is said to be smaller than a grain of rice at four weeks old. The human body is so fragile that just by sneezing, all bodily functions, including your heart, stop momentarily. The human body has tons of processes going on inside even without our consciousness or consent. For instance,about 2million red blood cells die inside you every second, 10 billion skin flakes are shed daily, one billion cells must be replaced within the next hour. We have a stomach that gets a brand new lining every three days, and produces 2litres of hydrochloric acid daily. Think about if you(your entire body system) had to be managed and maintained by fellow humans, if you had to foot the bill for all that process! Respiring one litre of air every 10 seconds, heart beating 35million times a year and pumping one million barrels of blood annually, millions of skin cells per square inch and 100,000 miles of blood vessels in the body. Indeed, I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and so are you. Not forgetting the mysterious fact that all humans are 99.9% genetically identical, it can safely be said that God blessed them.
God also gave responsibility, His blessings are usually conditional. God blessed them AND SAID. When He blesses, He says, and when He says, He blesses. The two are linked. There is a 'your' part and a 'His' part. He gave us responsibility to be fruitful, reproduce, replenish, subdue and have dominion. Every human has this awesome capability inherent in him/her. We should not live a purposeless life after all we have and are being blessed with. God blesses us with free gifts and wants us to make the earth like He made us. Replenish God's grace and goodness into other's lives and in every place, yes you.

Olaadegbu e ku ise oh. i sincerely hope gosh sees his faults here and correct them. He's the zealous type though.

but it is not good for a man to be alone, how many believers have unbelieving parents na?

Kay 17: We all know how you feel, but this would be derailing the thread, you have to compare/contrast with Slavery.

How many are you all, hope not a. legion? Anyway, i was responding to debo's post just directly above the post.

Logicboy03: Isnt lying a sin?

Isn't Psalm 14 ever true?

Logicboy03: Do you have homosexual friends? Are you a homosexual? Are you a scientist

pointless. And to prove this, i am a scientist. Which of the three are you?

i only asked for the meaning, not what happens or doesn't happen. Thanks anyway, I've seen the definition.

homosexuality may be an inborn tendency like foolishness naturally bound in a child's heart, or the tendency of some to lie or be boisterous or easily angry, it may also be acquired/contracted like a deadly disease that it is as evil communication corrupts good manners, and there is the possibility of sin's enticement or walking in the counsel of the ungodly and standing in the way of sinners. Whatever way this sickness comes, it needs to be driven out like Jesus would cast out devils instead of being fed, nurtured and pampered.

Ola you get time today oh, well done. The thread was quite depressing with the 20 or so posts before yours, owing to the almost trademark dishonesty and insincerity from the other ends.
Gosh, please i await your concise explanation of what the old covenant is, thanks.

But when we bait fish, they call us names. If we catch fish, they take on self-appointed ministries of poisoning the fish, why?

I'd reply to your post later, but its rather pointless and difficult to discuss Christianity if passages can be freely taken in to criticize and blackmail but similar passages become 'personal correspondence' when used in defense or explanation. pretty hypocritical.

Gosh I've read your reply. i asked for it to be concise not because i don't like reading, but because i want something real and simple. Kindly explain(like you would to. a child or a young person in the faith, not a theologian) in about five lines at most what is the old covenant? I'll answer all your post better when i have the time.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Psalms 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.