₦airaland Forum

frosbel: Do you have a real life Job, you keep dodging this question ?

Seems you're the one that keeps dodging the answer. I've never asked Jo but I've read him answer this question more than three times, even with pictures and website. He's a man more honest than you.

Zikkyy: I already done that. I don't discourage tithers from tithing. I don't teach against tithing. I have people tithing in my house and i have never for one day told them to stop tithing. It's their call; so long as they don't try to preach it.

My fight is against false/illegal tithe doctrine preached by most pastors and repeated here by most tithers. I believe you now understand my position.

so you've not convinced them at home? o ma se oh. Little wonder you're always angry. God is good, enjoy.

Don't make that mistake, the Holy Spirit in you is not better than the Scriptures. He'd never contradict or disregard God's word. They work hand in hand.

Pastor Kun: Nobody is saying you shouldn't pay your tithes if you want to. What we want christians to know is that as believers we are under no obligation to tithe. All our giving should be free will as we purpose in our heart. However the danger in tithing or keeping other laws of moses implies that you have rejected christ's sacrificial death and opted to remain under the law of moses.

Kunle actually had no insulting words? That's scary. There is no danger in tithing or doing any good work like tithing, alms giving, fasting, prayer, reading Bible, etc as far as you know that they don't save you or justify you.

OLAADEGBU: If they had known this maybe they would have honoured the word of God instead of their "debunking scripture exercise" that they are now embarking on.

may they know.

Logicboy03: Wow, I really debunked Image123 hard

here comes a dreamer.

Logicboy03:


You and Ihedinobi need to go back to school.

To teach you ba?

BTW that john gray quote needs serious attention on this section

Enigma: ^^^ Na only him belle dat one sabi. "Give to pastor, give to pastor, give to pastor"!

He no see for Bible where Jesus say "as long as you give to (did it for) one of these . . . . "

Yeyeful.

But the one of these inferred are saints na, aren't they? And Jo is in no way saying that that's the only form of giving. i complained on this earlier and expected zukky who's been following the thread ardently to know better.

highyo, highyo. i dey ALWAYS gbadun you jare. So blackberry sef dey among, thank God say na Android phone i dey eye. God is good to me. What shall we do for our sister that they chased from NYSC camp at 11pm because of trouser ohhh.

JeSoul: Explained perfectly!!! which is why one always has to stop and ask someone to clarify before replying to my own false understanding of what I think you said. Thank you dear!

Snr brother I dey oh. By the grace of the good Lord Almighty we are forging on and doing exploits. And you? I trust its going from glory to glory to gloriest

Ahh, gloriest ke? Na die be that one oh . i'm fine though

Okay, my take on the OP
Firstly it should be noted that the OP is fictional.It's funny how the unbelievers in the house are taking it like Jesus actually said those words and somehow wasn't able to answer the questions posed to Him.
Secondly is that Jesus Christ (the One in the Bible), as a statement of fact says that "God is good".
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
It is no coincidence that He is thrice recorded as haven said so. He looked at all men from the beginning of creation and to the end of the world with all their actions and deeds, looked at His Father(the OT God)with all His actions and deeds and declared God is good, no man is good. i respect His opinions a lot, actually i treat them as facts.
The question posed though is Why is there suffering in this world when God is a benevolent and omnipotent being? i think the Bible presents the best answer to that than anything else i have ever seen. Why is there suffering? Because man fell into sin. Is there a remedy? Yes, God has prepared a better place than earth where there will be no suffering. As for earth, it's already condemned and would be ultimately destroyed. What do we do in the gap? That was what the Jesus in the OP dwelt on. That is, be pro-active. Fault finders would continue to find faults from Adam till they die, literally. As for natural sufferings, the scriptures declare,
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
In the classic phrase of Jesus, it can be said " but from the beginning it was not so. " The foundations of the earth are out of course. The earth is not functioning according to its original design. Something happened. Like when Jesus died on the cross and there was a quake and veil of the temple was rent in two. Something shifted when Adam and Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, apart from the devil taking over as the god of this world, a title that man was supposed to hold. Something happened leading to the current instabilities, and making the earth not totally friendly and inhabitable.
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
These things bolded are not the norm in the earth which God created. God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
That's on suffering and its origin, lemme not talk too much. Perhaps, i'll respond to questions instead. On consequences and why God didn't just press the refresh button with His powers. Well, this is reality and actions have consequences. Man is a major project built to last. Man was created in God's image. Lik they say, much power comes with great responsibility. God in His infinite wisdom gave the solution to the problem of evil on the spot when He said,
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Jesus Christ was on His mind when He said these words. Unfortunately, there is no quick fix to everything. There are some things that require sequence and time, and God has a lot of time, oops. Also, man/humanity is not noodles that you just fix in 2minutes. We are complex, like God. There are laws set in place. those that have worked with major equipment or factories may appreciate better that shutting down or starting up is not as easy as putting off your phone and switching it on. There are processes, energies and lots of money sometimes involved. Man is greater than any machine. Jesus Christ, in comparing one soul to the whole earth estimated a soul as of greater worth/profit than the whole earth.
Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Is God good then? Yes. Is God love also? Yes, God is love. Is God holy? Yes. God is not only good, He is also love, and He is Holy. A good father
would correct his children, even the Bible says that. A loving human will want discipline in the society and punishment for evil doing. Love is not exclusive to justice. Being good is not alien to punishment. God is infinitely good, infinitely loving and infinitely holy. Our young minds do not understand it all or have it all figured out perfectly, God's eternal mind does. i trust that.

JeSoul: Snr brother Image, this is an interesting say here...can you please explain further before I type an irrelevant reply to what I 'think' you're saying. Thanks!

i already explained na, i said

You may need to ask God to speak to you. If He plans to give you your request in two years time, you'll need patience then, instead of praying to God for months but nothing seems coming. So ask Him to speak to you if nothing is wrong with you.

i'm not saying all answers to prayer must be physically received immediately oh. One can actually receive an answer, and hold on to it until it materialises. Like father Abraham. That peace comes, even though the physical evidence is on the way. where there is nothing coming, that's not good. one has to check up, or re-tune the frequency as it were. As something may actually be broadcasting and we are not on the right frequency as it were. Hope say i don explain? forgot to ask, how you dey?

debosky: I am neither desperate nor shameless, so no need to indulge in name calling. I have simply pointed out that your post is easily misinterpreted, even though I do not regard that meaning as your intent. That is why it was a cautionary note to avoid being over-zealous in defending your position.

When it comes to living on a higher level, I accept that as a principle - however, how that manifests is an individual matter, not for you or anyone else to evaluate. Even if a person, for whatever reason, is giving less than 10%, it does not mean he/she is living on a lower level.

Debo, i can evaluate. By their fruits you will know them. it's another thing if the person is pretending to be what he is not. What i do not do is to condemn. i'm not a sectarian like many antitithers are. i've continually insisted that doctrine or theology is not a great basis for judgement. We might hold differing doctrines and concepts on varying subject matters. the determinant of a true christian is faith in Christ Jesus evidenced by works. This is living faith. i'm more worried about the words a professing christian uses than whether he understands tithe or heaven or trinty or whatever. Christians are expected to be light and to GROW in the KNOWLEDGE of God. Where there is no light but frequent darkness in your(one's) words or beliefs, there is problem. Most antitithers here are just glad to brother up anybody who disagrees with tithe for whatever purpose. You can see their lives on the other Olaadegbu thread. A christian is very free to evaluate others, including what he hears or sees. There is a gift of the Spirit called discernment i think. Anybody giving less than 10% is living on a lower level. God is not mocked.
Mar 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
Mar 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Mar 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mar 12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Lovely thread, if i ever said. i hope to be effectively part of this if chanced. BTW, God is good, i'll go with Don Moen on this.

[quote author=victor-NR-ceo]Lol,actually,u are the one who have comprehended poorly. That's a simplified explanation right there,even,a basic two students can comprehend that,without external assistance. OLODO oshi.(Perhaps he understood,but just can't refute it or can't admit his 'anti-intellectualism')

It's obvious,Logicboy was right in this statement;[/quote]

Logicboy03: smh....you have comprehension problems. I cant help you.

So you cannot read properly too?

Pls I need ur candid advice have been praying to God for months but nothing seems coming wht do I do? I will appreciate if dere is a prophet or pastors in the house... Waiting for response.

i'm not a prophet neither am i a pastor, but i think i can add to what has already been said. Praying to God for months without anything coming is not good. It is unacceptable, even the people that killed Jesus would have gotten answers if they prayed that long. Asides what has already being said, also humbly check yourself. Bible says,
Psa 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Pro 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.
check yourself and repent if there is anything to be repented of. Also, find out if you are asking amiss or contrary to God's word or plan.
Jam 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Or asking without faith. Or maybe you've received your answer but you don't like the answer. If you're not asking amiss, then do not worry, your answer is on the way. You may need to ask God to speak to you. If He plans to give you your request in two years time, you'll need patience then, instead of praying to God for months but nothing seems coming. So ask Him to speak to you if nothing is wrong with you.
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet, a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

March 13 1Samuel 13:11

1Samuel 13:11 And Samuel said, What hast thou done? And Saul said, Because I saw that the people were scattered from me, and that thou camest not within the days appointed, and that the Philistines gathered themselves together at Michmash;

King Saul was a man of reason. He was very good at logical reasoning. But God removed him and put David as king. David was not a man of reason, he was a man of faith. By that, i do not mean that he could not reason, but that he was not driven by reason but by faith. Faith is what makes you a man after God's heart. David had reasons not to confront Goliath. Boy, he had a promise and anointing from prophet Samuel as the next king of Israel. David had reasons to hate king Saul and even kill him when he had the chance, but he was a man of faith. Faith many times make you to do the unreasonable, like forgiving, or asking God for guidance(when you have God given brains for that matter), or telling a lame man to rise up and walk in Jesus' name, or going Abraham mode.
King Saul always had reasons, cogent reasons. It takes faith to please God, not reason. the world is looking for reason to please God. Are you like the world or of the world? Have you ever met people who had reasons to displease God? i have met folks who had sound reasons to displease God, people who had valid excuses to lose their faith. Who doesn't? Adam also had excuses, you are not the first person with a valid excuse.
Unfortunately, excuses would only excuse you out of God's kingdom. Do not spend your life on building excuses and reasons. Instead, be found building up yourself on your most holy faith. To obey is better than sacrifice. Obeying God is faith, not reason. People with faith will achieve much for God. People with reason will achieve little for God. i get usually wary of people who serve God because He has done this or that for them. Your love and service should be hinged on faith, not on reason. if you think you have reason, there is someone else that has a stronger reason than you do, who can convince you and reason out/away your reason with his own reason. Faith is the victory that overcomes the world, not reason.

[quote author=victor-NR-ceo]Yes it can be. No,I speak swahili.
It's obvious u've realised the point of logicboy's statement.
@ihedinobi,what sort of 'anti-intellectualism'(oyinbo to gbono) are u,do u need basic lectures to understand that atheism is believed to have only worldly gains(money,marriage,fame and everything available in the universe for u and me)to their reach. Didn't the bible emphasise that? Didn't the bible also promise universal gains for the believers 'seek first the kingdom of God n his righteousness n all these things(referring to universal gains others are dying to get)shall be added.« Now,that is the truth that is not exclusive. Heavenly gain(this is true to the religious but lies to non-believers) is the most important thing for believers(of God) and available only to them,therefore it's exclusive.[/quote]Your english writing is poor and not easily comprehensible. Write properly, then i can reply you properly. thanks.

Logicboy03: The christian faith is universal? lol.....tell me, which christianity is true- catholic doctrines or pentecostal doctrines?

Tithing or non-tithing?
Trinity or Jesus a prophet or non-trinity?


Do black churches in america relate to South Korean churches?


Anyone can be a christian? Inclduding gays>?

The christianity seen in the Bible. And yes, anyone can be a christian, so says the christian book. All you have to do is Repent and Believe.

@dkung

@Image123, if Stalin had claimed he was acting under. God's instruction to perpetrate all the above stated attrocities it would have been acceptable by you and other Christians especially if he claimed those people were wicked, devilish, fetish and also commit the sins of human sacrifice?

Fortunately, we have examples of people who claim to be acting under God's instructions today, many whom the christian community decries and denounces.Rev. King is a nearby example. The jihadists and terrorists are everyday examples. Stalin never made such claims, why not class him based on what he did instead of suppositions and assumptions.

I honestly do not see the difference between Stalin and your Moses, Joshua, David, elijah.

i'd be honestly surprised and optimistic if you saw the difference. The same spirit is in you as is in mazaje and other atheists like Stalin. i think it was thehomer i was sharing that with and he was complaining when i was generalising using Nietzsche and Russell. Now, its becoming obvious even on NL. It's not just about not believing in God or in existensialism, you are all of the same.

In one of the five books Moses ordered the killing of POWs who were males as well as those women who were not vergins and the Soldeirs to take the virgins for thenselves. (Am kinda trying to imagine how the soldiers performed the virginity tests did they have to finger the ladies of use their ding dongs, we may never know but I can bet you those ladies would be in serious trauma. First you are being Molested on God's command and then you aare sentenced death for not being a virgin after the molestation).

Why not make up your mind, firstly its "we may never know" and you're trying to imagine. Next thing is that you know for sure that they were molested on God's command. Here is the text.
Num 31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Moses acted on God's instructions, not on personal desires. Stalin acted on personal desires and for personal gain. The Bible says Moses acted on God's instructions. we cannot pretend that that is not there or cut it out, and only choose to believe the parts we want to.
Num 31:1 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying,
Num 31:2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
Num 31:3 And Moses spoke unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.

If you followed the story from chapter 21, you'd notice that Israel was not supposed to fight with Midian, infact they sent a message as to that effect. But the Midianites attacked Israel. Then they got Ballaam the prophet to curse Israel, and made/sent their women to seduce the Israelites to commit idolatry. This was why God judged them after He had severely punished Israel. Israel's Bible history showed that they cohabited with their neighbours unlike Stalin who was killing millions of countrymen and strangers under whimsy excuses, to assert power and authority for himself.

Elijah slaughterd, in cold blood, Baal prophets on mt carmel just because they failed in a superiority contest between gods. This is just two out of several incidences of cold blooded war crimes and genocides in the name of God.

Another case of divine judgement. Elijah had no personal vendetta. He was God's authority on earth. Everyone in authority represents God and has God-given right to exercise judgement against SIN. God approves that people in authority exercise judgement on criminals. It is an abuse of office to use that office for personal vendetta, dictatorship, cult of personality or power aggrandisement.
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
The prophets of Baal were false/counterfeit prophets who had led the Israelites into idolatry. They received instant judgement which God had prescribed in His law for anyone that leads Israel to idolatry.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
He was following an established law of their land which had been in place and accepted by all Israel generations before him and after him. There was a standard in place, a nationally acceptable determinant of right and wrong, it wasn't lawless.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
Jos 1:16 And they answered Joshua, saying, All that thou commandest us we will do, and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go.
Jer 42:20 For ye dissembled in your hearts, when ye sent me unto the LORD your God, saying, Pray for us unto the LORD our God; and according unto all that the LORD our God shall say, so declare unto us, and we will do it.
Neh 10:29 They cleaved to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;

You also claaimed Stalin had been convicted for crimes against humanity both in life and death but do you think if Moses, Joshua, David and Elijah had lived in contemporary times the won't be tried and convicted of war crimes and genocides along with Stalin? Stalin probably killed millions directly or indirectly but Moses too killed several thousands too cos I still read it somewhere that in one fell swoop moses ordered the masacre of more than 20,000 people. Maybe you are more concerned about the numbers but does it make a difference to the families of the deceased? Stalin did his in the name of His God, probably communism while moses and his team mates did theirs in the name of their god, probably YHWH.

You forgot to tell us what crimes David committed? i guess everyone being killed by US troops in the Middle-East and Nigerian soldiers in Mali and other parts of Africa, you think they are cold blooded murders by Obama and Jonathan respectively? Have you truly read about Stalin? It's crazy to make such sweeping statements as finding no difference between Stalin and King David, or Moses, or Elijah. These were children of God, and children of God are not lawless or a law to themselves. If they lived in contemporary times, they wouldn't do the things they did then. There is time for everything(Eccl 3v1)Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
In God's time-table for us, we are in the grace period, in a new covenant/agreement. Check/reference God's new covenant/testament in your Bible. Most of the so called laws in the many nations have their roots in the Bible laws, like it or hate it.
Also, killing a million is different from killing one. So, YES, the numbers matter, i'm concerned about the numbers, are you not? Do you really think the person who kills a million should be considered the same and judged the same as the one that killed one?

mazaje: What is this drivel all about?. . . . . . .If Moses, Joshua, Elijah etc were alive today and did what ever was written about them in the bible, they would have been arrested and locked up as war criminals. . .That is the FACT. . .

i've answered in the above. i knew it would be drivel to you to show you their differences. You're a blinded bigot for comparing King David to Stalin. where is he today after all his noise. How is he remembered, and how is King David remembered. i would be surprised if you saw the difference. The Scripture remains truer, more current and more relevant than tomorrow's newspaper.
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Logicboy03: The above statement is ambiguous. A sensible person will ask me what I mean by truth and by exclusive. But a fool like you likes to jump into conclusions.

Facts and logic are universal anyone with a brain can use them. Facts don't discriminate, they remain true no matter who accepts or reject them

you'r being ambiguous here. the Christian faith is universal and anyone can be a christian. The Christian faith does not discriminate, it remains true no matter who accepts or rejects it, duh.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Meanwhile, Truth by definition has to be EXCLUSIVE. You cannot be going left and right at the same time.

Logicboy03: Satan?

Lol......some christians can be silly at times- I dont believe in gods, therefore I believe in satan? Satan is controlling me?


Lmao

i once met someone who had the HIV but believed it was all white man propaganda.

[quote author=victor-NR-ceo]U actually composed ^^ as a qtn,but obviously would be ur conclusion to the statement 'truth is universal'.


Nah,this applies to u(no insult meant),open ur mind to the claim,and u will realise logicboy meant truth is in atheism and lies involve religion,thereby,atheism having only universal gains to claim(which is available for everyone living)«proves that truth(atheist gain) is not exclusive,and lie(supernatural/spiritual gain) is exclusive to the non-believer. This is just what I assimilated,or u understood something diff. then open up(let's c ur 'intellectualism' according to ihedinobi).[/quote]How can these things be? Do you speak English?

musKeeto: Lol, so much anger. Don't blame anyone for your slow transformation into a super troll. Trolling conceals your apparent ignorance, so I'd advice you keep it up.

you're angry with the truth. You'd have no excuse on judgment day.

musKeeto: And a slave rises to defend his masters. Everything they did can be excused because it had God's approval. We've heard you. All atheists are evil and will abuse power if given the chance, including logicboy's best president.

go and count grains of rice or take some readily available INDIAn hemp abeg. Your cohort just confessed to seeing no difference between Joseph Stalin and King David. I'd rather serve God than serve your master, the devil.

Ihedinobi: @Image123

My brother, once someone says that Truth is not exclusive, it becomes pretty obvious that the gray matter is all gone. You have a lot of energy to be engaging such anti-intellectualism. If Truth is not exclusive, then everything is true and nothing is a lie and we're wasting our lives debating on nairaland. After all, the whole reason the dead-brains in question is proselytizing for atheism is because he thinks religion is false and truth is found by embracing atheism. Curious if he also thinks truth is not exclusive, but not a mystery once you remember how dumb he gets when Christ is on his mind.

hehehehe, Ihedinobi, see trouble oh. The guy is blinded by satan.

hahaha, perhaps she read too much highyo my lovely friend. But they for no decamp her na.