₦airaland Forum

Just preach the GOSPEL if you can. It's cheaper AND more EFFICIENT.

Our 'destinies' are laid out before we came, BUT are subject to tampering/change. You can change/affect your 'destiny'.
and others can

Funny PR

A criminal thinks he's free to kill fellow humans and plunder others for whatever reason. Is this free thinking?

i answered this earlier by saying."It is rightly seen as illegal by the law, and believers ought to be law abiding EXCEPT when we ought to obey God rather than men". 1Peter 2v13-17

saints in heaven don't need the anointing of the spirit over there.

Joagbaje, you don come again. SOURCE pls

Dayo, what controls the stock market if i may ask?

Betting means to agree to risk money on the result of a game, race, competition, or future event. Two or more people put money and say 'if A wins i take the money, if A loses you take the money'. This is what the original poster asked about, not buying and selling. Betting is a sin because, amongst other evils, it is illegal, it is based on greed and coveting, you only win at the DETRIMENT of others, the Spirit of God is against it, the Word of God does not support it.

Isn't it ironic that Rebecca is the mother of Israel? rhetorical rhetorical abeg

dayokanu:
@ Image,

Let me get you clearly,

Anyone who buys stocks without researching it properly is a SINNER because he also gambled?

What of someone that researched the two teams that are playing together and staked on the superior team and won, That cant be a Gambler by your definition

like i asked earlier for your definition of gambling. I later posted some differing definitions. The word 'gamble' can be used as a synonym for risk. It's a different thing from the 'gamble' synonym for betting. Betting is the OP's concern, and that's what i addressed. Any form of betting is SIN. Taking risks is a different thing. When people make un-informed decisions, they're taking risks/being careless, not betting.

edeal247:
tbk417 and dayokano seems to ve research v,wellon this i need to be more convinced that its not a sin though those who do it without researcing very well on tyhe abilities of both teams are gambler and they loss mpney but those who take their time to foresee loser and winner trade not bet successfully.those who are against it should know that this does not involve phiscial contacxt with somebody who is trading at the other end.if will all study the abilities of each team before will trade (not bet),the company will be paying us from not onlythe lossers` money but the advitisers` money. tbk417 and dayokano contact me on edeal247@yahoo.com.for more help and advise from you.

I don't do MJ but it may be appropriate to say "speechless speechless that's how you make me feel". As in i don't comprehend the above, did you translate from another language?

How can anyone say for certain that one stock would rise over a period, Then everyone would be a millionaire

You seem to be mixing 5minutes 1hour up and down movement of prices to real INVESTMENT in stocks which the common man does. When you are well informed, you can make intelligent decisions on what stocks to buy. Like i earlier said, anything can be turned to a risk, even my replying a post. People can just minimanimo and buy a company's share, it's risky and quite different from sitting down, researching and choosing the best, or paying professionals to do it for you. Everyone would not be millionaires investing because not everyone makes intelligent decisions.

Dont these upsets happen in Stock market? Or How did Giants like Lehmann Bros, BP, GM, Ford crash so badly?

There are always reasons why stocks may go against the expected trend. It could be due to reverse of policies, new technology, poor management decisions, natural disaster, scandals etc. When these things happen, you make intelligent decisions on when to back out of the investment. Businesses like you mentioned above crash and people lose because of corruption and greed, not upsets.

What's the meaning of IPPC? seems that's where mr Jo said he was. What was your experience sweetmum?
Do you mean sweet mum as in your mother, or yourself?

Funny stuff. Your mouth like 'Jesus also preached jihad'. Next we go hear say 'mohamed wabilie sunmilie also preached holiness'. Day dream.

Must it be buying and selling? Both involves taking risk to get money that is not yours

I was stating the difference between the two. you guys were like 'if gambling is a sin, what about stocks and real estate', implying that they are the same thing. I think stocks and real estate always involve buying and selling. Gambling involves getting money that is NOT YOURS like you've rightly said, but stocks and real estate involve gaining, appreciating in value. Your shares were worth 5bucks, they are now worth 7bucks.

No. In stock you buy low and sell high, Its your ability to know "low" points and high points that makes you money and you clean out from people who are still buying the stock when it has peaked

The bolded is what is called intelligent decisions. You don't necessarily have to wait till the stock peaks before you sell, wise investors don't do that, greedy people do that more. thats why they often lose. Its called demand and supply, someone wants/demands your stock for higher than you bought it because you knew that they will demand for it based on calculable factors, then you sell. How is it difficult to see that this is so different from gambling that club A will beat club B, this one is not business its luck.

So if Aki and pawpaw is fighting Klitchsko Its based on luck? If Barcelona is playing Yeovil Town that is luck Staking is based on trends.

Would it be intelligent to bet against? Thats why i just said gambling is not based on intelligence but on luck  and predictions. Ever heard of the term 'upset'? something unexpected can happen at anytime or match, the referee, an owngoal, the weather, ill luck, overconfidence, anything and everything. It's unlike business trends.

[color=Black]- Staking is rooted in greed, stocks and real estate can be investment based on planning for the future.[/color]

Pls expatiate on this You turn 1 million to 10million in real estate and that is not greed but turning $100 to $1000 from staking is greed.

Staking/Betting is rooted i.e founded/based on greed i.e avarice, covetousness. wanting to take what belongs to another man, winning at the detriment of others. This is against the Spirit of Christ.  

1John 3:13  Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15  Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
We as christians ought to lay down for others, not live at the expense/disadvantage of others.
In real estate, you invest wisely hoping to gain for a particular purpose. You sow, then it yields over time(due to factors like demand, scarcity, inflation, money spent on the property etc)  and you look for someone who will buy. Its quite different from intent to take somebody else' money off him and leave him a loser.

Is it a sin is the question, Reading a Bible is illegal in many parts of the world, So what are we saying Saudi, China, are example

You asked for  'points that make staking  a SIN compared to real estate and Stock market'. It is rightly seen as illegal by the law, and believers ought to be law abiding EXCEPT when we ought to obey God rather than men.

the money you gain from stock market where did it come from?

Is stock market not a gamble? Why do people lose money from it? Even Professors of Finance from Wharton have lost money, Warren Buffet has lost money.

Real estate? If you buy a land for 1m and 2 yrs later someone offers to pay 100m for it, Now tell the person you are not greedy and you would sell it for 1.1million

The money you gain from the stock market comes from appreciation of your share or currency. you buy for 5bucks and it rises to 7bucks, then you sell. You make a gain of 2bucks, that's business.
People lose money in business for different reasons. The professors and Buffets gain more than they lose because they do not just gamble but make intelligent decisions while doing business. they buy at the right time and sell at the right time. Anything can be turned into a risk 'gamble' if one is careless/carefree. My replying you can be made very risky if i decide to do it while driving. you may well ask "Is replying dayokano on nl not a gamble?" If someone offers to pay you 100million for something you bought 1million, you should be extra-careful methinks. While it may not be your making that you're offered 100million, i guess it will be greedy to be the 1st to ask for 100million.

we professional bettors    make informed analysis b4 we stake our bets

Betting na profession . Im sure you know some people get paid to kill people like soldiers
are they sinners? so dont talk ill of my profession here or i go whoze u

Honestly? Find honest work please. 1Thessalonians 4:12  That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.

For example in the Kentucky horse betting before you bet you have to know the breed of the horse, the family history and the track record of the rider as well. Those are tangible analysis that determines how PROFESSIONALS bet.

In football Arsenal is playing Tottenham, You have to know what the current form of both team is, Who are the key players and if they are injured, Is it a home or away game, Is it a key game or just a novelty match, You have to follow news before the game is played to get up to date information. Thats what differentiates a Professional from those old men that just play "Pool"

In Stock market most times you gain because others lose.

You have done your analysis and think its best to get out now, while other think its best to get in now, then you are mostly cashing out on the money others invested

All that one knows in betting is history, it doesn't determine the next result. For no strong reason, a team may win its next match 1-0 or 8-0, it may as well draw the match or lose, its not over until the final whistle UNLIKE stocks where you can say for sure that this share will rise over this period of time because of this and this. You gain in stocks not because others lose but because what you bought low is now selling high due to factors like demand, government decisions, economic budgets, charts and trends. This is business (buying and selling), Betting is NOT. People go to school to study these things i.e stocks and real estate, thats what terms them as PROFESSIONALS, not club fanbases.

good to be back, thank God, I thought to meet a barrage of insult and curses, thank God i'm spared.
I asked for a definition of 'gamble'

Please kindly give your definition of 'gambling'. I will be back

I'm yet to see that. the reason i asked is so that we can be clear what we're discussing. Gamble could mean among others,
1. to play games such as poker or roulette that involve risking money, or bet on horse races or other events, in the hope of winning money
2. to bet a sum of money on the outcome of an event or competition
3. to take a risk in the hope and expectation of a desired result
Microsoft® Encarta® 2008. © 1993-2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
My longman dictionary says "to risk money or possession on the result of something uncertain" OR "to do something that involves a lot of risk and that will not succeed unless things happen the way you will like them to"
As can be observed, the word 'gamble' can be used in different ways. The 'gamble' i guess the OP referred to is a bet, put your money down i put my money down, if so so happens i take all, if not you take all. that's quite different from the analogies many have been making. A gamble is always a risk, but not every risk falls into this gamble category.
It's surprising that some people don't want us to involve God/religion in this discuss. But the Bible says 'as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. ' It's in the religion section of nl for one, and there's nothing wrong for a child of God to want to do what Jesus would do. That's why i've said that anyone who has the Spirit of God will know that gambling on football is a SIN. It's when you don't know Him that you'll have doubts, it's not my fault if you don't know Him. The Spirit of God will NEVER lead a child of God to gamble. Most of those who are supporting gambling on this thread are gamblers so that's logical, but when you go above logical to spiritual, you'll not want to defraud your neighbor in any matter. You'll not want to gain at the detriment of others. So off to your posts.

Life itself is a big GAMBLE!

While i partially agree that life is a risk, it's not a gamble in the OP's context. that two words are spelt the same way doesn't mean they must have the same meaning e.g Lie and Lie, one is a sin while one is what we all do when we rest. There are various levels of risk. Breathing itself can be considered a risk because one can breathe in poisonous gas, but we don't compare this to the risk of jumping off a speeding car on the third mainland bridge Lagos. One is unavoidable, the other is criminal and avoidable.

Am confused here.
I played and won some money on rapido. I rarely win gambling right from secondary school, but here am I winning about 3 times. Am not sure if it is wrong, all I know is am never addicted to ANYTHING in my life. I only play when am kinda certain.
Remember, GET RICH OR DIE TRYING

Ever heard of pathological gambling, it's a sickness that Jesus can cure. About getting rich or die trying, i don't understand that one. One can get rich and go to hell fire. life is more than making money.

Any decision taken for gain without a control of the outcome is a gamble. Be it stocks, currencies, comodities, soccer matches, options, bingo, horse races, oil exploration or other activities that interface with nature.

Very correct.

Now if we believe gambling is a thoughtless exercise how would you compare me a novice who has lost a lot in the Nigerian stock and mutual funds market because I knew nothing. Am I a gambler or not. Now how do you compare me with those folks I know who know the premiership in and out that they win regularly or study advanced charts and can predict where the dollar, gold, pork bellies or platinum will be next week, or have such sharp intuition they will floor you in bridge, poker time after time.

Where is the line between skill, knowledge, effort and luck in all human endeavour and gain and where does gambling fit in.

If you lost a lot, it shows that you took a lot of risk which is unwise. A novice shouldn't be doing business, you get/pay professionals or go and learn. Foolishness is not a fruit of the spirit. BBC's Mark Lawrenson 'knows the premiership in and out' and makes predictions, he still misses. Football is a game, it's not over until the final whistle. One can be leading 2-0 or even 4-0 and still draw or lose the game. There's no reliable chart in football to say that this will be the next result. The best that can be done is predictions. It's unlike the dollar, gold or platinum where there are charts, graphs, trends and co to intelligently decide what will be next. Carelessness or risk may not always fall under the 'gamble' class. If someone is careless in business, he may lose. In business, you buy something and then gain from what you bought. You buy gold, you buy dollar, land, and it appreciates then you make profit. It's different from 'bring your money i put my money chelsea will win', that's not business.

Anybody who says betting is a sin is a slowpoke.  Just attached some of my live betting account history for view. Good cash  and I am happy. To hell with those that think betting or gambling is a sin.

You can just imagine. another person, is it tbk417 was asking if greed is a sin. Yes, greed is a sin.
Good cash and 'happiness' is not equal to righteousness. In the religion section, i think people think about righteousness.

Now list out the points that make staking  a SIN compared to real estate and Stock market

i've mentioned them above, but just to re-cap,
- Staking is not buying and selling unlike real estate and stocks
-In staking someone MUST lose for you to make money, while in stocks and real estate it doesn't have to be so.
- Staking is based on luck, stocks and real estate are based on trends.
- Staking is rooted in greed, stocks and real estate can be investment based on planning for the future.
- Staking is illegal in many parts of the world, stocks are not illegal.

Oo, have you cut off the real estate part? We must be making progress. Please kindly give your definition of 'gambling'. I will be back

I wouldn't stake because it would be a gamble. The love of money, i could talk on that one for a while but let's just call it 'greed'. Greed is evil and doesn't show love for others. Greed is when you see another man's money and want to make it yours in the process of gambling(He loses and I gain).

^you Seem to know very little about stock market or real estate. The OP was 'is gambling a sin?' Your defence of 'what about this and that' will not go far. In wise stocks and real estate investments, you buy low and sell high. Your money appreciates over time due to inflation, trends and economic policies amongst others(that's the common man investment). Spot price movements and day trading are for PROFESSIONALS who have reasons for their decisions based on tangible stuff like time, volume, news, charts and graphs etc. These are short term and very risky, as compared to the normal real estate and stock and bonds that 'EVERYONE' does. It's suprising to compare this to throwing of dice, cardgames, horse races or football matches where anything can happen. In gambling you only gain at the detriment of others, how can christians be asking such questions, well i remember the period we live in.

@tkb
You're taking this personal here, did i offend you somewhere? sorry o! Betting is a SIN whether it's sports or not, and i gave the OP reasons why i stated so. It's not a matter of debunking. You raised a comparison of betting and investing, that's why i was showing the difference.

@tkb
There's nothing called 'overdose of reading the bible'. It's not my fault that you don't spend time reading God's Word. Anyone who has the spirit of God in him knows that gambling is wrong, whether in horse races or arsenal vs whoever. There's something called wise investment, not just buying shares for the sake of it. Your money/input works for you to grow dividends considering calculable factors. It's different from betting in a viewing centre where there's no input to the team that's playing. Gambling is always at the detriment of another which is not christlike. Investment/saving is not

Like shadrach has beautifully put it, gambling is a SIN. Anyone who has the Spirit of God in him/her will know that. Gambling is built on coveteousness, reaping where you didn't sow, and the love of money.
It's not the same thing as making intelligent decisions and trusting/hoping that it goes fine, which is what's involved in shares and bank saving. Gambling doesn't involve intelligent decisions but is based on luck and the spirit of this world, subtle and addictive. 1Thessalonians 5v22

InesQor
No mind me o, i'm just pulling Jo's fingernails and throat till the 'interview' continues.

@Tudor. You've again demonstrated your inability to make credible and accurate judgements.

@ragdollz
Lol. I see your point

I'm informed arsene rested nasri and asharvin yesterday before the match ended. They do need rest, trophylessness must be very tedious.

^do you really have SOMETHING to say?

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=552568.msg7189635#msg7189635 date=1290370921]yes you did. You in effect blamed the CRIMES on moses and the judges exonerating your god. Thats really cool of you.[/quote]Don't be ridiculous, i'm not dead. And the thread is still here. Please quote me and prove your false accusation above. You've again demonstrated your inability to make credible and accurate judgements.

mayor, this was your comment

So God is above his Own Law, which He Swears by . Very Interesting.

This is after it was said that God is above the law. The law referred to been the 'thou shalt nots', not the Word which is God. If you don't know the difference, go and learn. You're still young to learn.