₦airaland Forum

Rossik, why did our ancestors leave their own concept of God for that of the foreigners?

frosbel: I disagree.

GOD was simply putting Adam and Eve to the test, to see if they were going to exercise their free will positively. They failed the test.

Putting Adam and Eve to the test? He already knows the end from the beginning, so what is the point of the test? And why does he test his creatures when he already knows the outcome of the test?

They had free will to choose between right and wrong.

Everything was against them from the beginning. If God really wanted them to pass the "test" he would have warned them about the serpent that he hurled to earth . They had no freewill, that serpent would have just kept on coming until they ate from the tree.

To erroneously suggest that Man is a robotic subject of God with no ability to resist the will of God is not in alignment with the truth of scripture.

Can man resist God's will?

Man has free will and we see the consequences of this free will in our society every day, some choose to kill while others choose to promote life. Some choose to give themselves over to perversion while others choose the opposite.

What exactly does freewill mean to you?
Is this freewill limited?

God calls us out of this love , but he never compels us to love him, it is a matter of choice..

But he punishes those that refuse this love right?

@Frosbel


God put man in a perfect garden but decides to leave a particular tree in the middle where all eyes can easily see it and then he tells man not to even touch the tree or eat from it.
How does your analogy correspond with this?

* If you go to a shop, you already know that everything is for sale and you are supposed to buy things there not steal them.

* Again, you know from the onset that the internet isn't for fraud. You shouldn't only blame your uncle, you should blame your fingers, your laptop, your laptop manufacturer, your modem, your ISP, your web browser, your email provider and every other person/object/organisation you can lay your blames on.

frosbel: Because God is omnipresent he saw what happened and to reinforce his refusal to interfere with the freewill of MAN , did not prevent it.

Which freewill are we talking about? Why was the tree even there in the first place? It was all planned out to happen that way. You don't put a loaded gun inside the house with a toddler and then expect the child not to play with it. If you want to keep the child safe, you'll keep the gun in a safe place, you won't put it in a place where the child will have easy access.

Same thing with CCTV, a policeman can be hundreds of miles away and see a crime in progress through video. It does not mean the police planned for the crime to happen.

The policeman isn't omniscient, omnipresent, omnibelevolent etc etc etc

His first question was "have you eaten from the tree which I commanded you not to eat?"
He knew that they would eat it from the onset, he already knew the answer to the question that he threw at them. It was all part of his plan.

frosbel: There is nothing like freewill ?

So did GOD destine MAN to fall from the very beginning , in which case Adam and Eve were simply playing out a pre-planned scene, they had no freewill , it was all pretend ? Hmmmmm

What question did God ask them first when he came down to earth to take a walk in the garden? That question says it all, he was obviously aware that they would eat from the tree all along.

alfaman2: You don't know your god again?

My god? Jizz-us? Again, I can't seem to recollect where I called this relative of yours my god.

There is nothing like freewill and yes, true freewill negates God's sovereignty.

Christians can't even agree on what the bible says. Everybody is justifying their positions with the same bible. Where is the Holy Spirit in all of this?

striktlymi: The explanation I gave cuts across. It is not just for the Pharaoh ish. The same can be applied to Judas and whoever seem to be without freewill.

Guess I'll have to read your initial post again.

The truth we sometimes fail to grasp is that, God hates all manners of sin. If you say Esau was hated for no reason, that would be inaccurate. The only thing God hates in Esau is his life of sin.

The bible says Esau was hated before he was even born, it never said Esau was hated for being sinful

God is actually superior to man and that superiority is absolute.

Exactly the point Paul was trying to pass across; man's inability to resist God's will. The truth is there is no freewill but just God's will.

I have explained why the above is before. Kindly refer to my earlier post.

Okay, that I'll certainly do.

musKeeto: Hi inspired..

Was my response on your 'If I were an atheist' thread responsible for your recent soul searching?

Many things were responsible and yes, your comment on that thread is part of it.

striktlymi: Good evening inspired,

The passage you quoted is not substantially different from:

Exodus 14:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord. And they did so.

I have given my thoughts on this earlier.

Read the verse again ; it didn't just talk about pharoah, it also talked about Esau being hated for no reason . It was showing God's absolute superiority over man.Also check Genesis 15:13-14

13 LORD said to him, “Know for
certain that for four hundred
years your descendants will be
strangers in a country not their
own and that they will be
enslaved and mistreated there.
14 But I will punish the nation
they serve as slaves, and
afterward they will come out
with great possessions.

This is God telling Abraham about what the Israelites would go through in Egypt and how he would bring them out. This was before Jacob was even born.

Who exactly is this "jizz-us" that you speak about? Is he/she a relative of yours?

striktlymi: Mind telling us how?

In that particular chapter, it is stated that Pharoah was raised up for that particular purpose in order for God to be glorified. Also, the verse tends to give the notion that God controls every aspect of our life and we have no say in the matter.

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in allthe earth.” [ g ]
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden

striktlymi: Mind telling us how?

In that particular chapter, it is stated that Pharoah was raised up for that particular purpose in order for God to be glorified. Also, the verse tends to give the notion that God controls every aspect of our life and we have no say in the matter.

@Striktlymi, Romans 9:16-18 disagrees with your post above.

Kids have a poor understanding of right and wrong and are always prone to make bad choices even when they reach this "age of accountability" you can only be held accountable for anything when you become an adult (anything in this context is limited to the scope of this discussion)

@Striktlymi, what would you say about pharoah holding back the Israelites? Was that by his own freewill or was he influenced to make that decision?

.

frosbel: I agree.

It was not made for arguments, it was made for enlightenment.

And what happens when this "enlightenment" is rejected?

This won't change anything. This thread will only achieve one thing and that is unneccessary arguments.

@op, it's not like highlighting the "dangers" will change anything. Witnesses will still remain witnesses. Do yourself some good and find something else to do with your time.

Some people are beginning to take this thing seriously oooo.

People like us go dey supporters club cheering the main men on the field.
I no even know which team I belong to.

@op, 21 days of prayer and fasting and yet, nothing productive came out of it. Did God fail to answer your prayers or it is not His will for the atheists to be saved?

musKeeto: Is there anyone conversant with Odinani?.. It seems like online materials concerning it are few and hard to get by..

I'm also interested in knowing what Odinani entails. I once searched wikipedia, and the article on it was disappointing to say the least.

The title of this topic is misleading. He isn't offering free money, it is more or less betting between the two conflicting sides.

I see no end to this ''fisticuff''

FOLYKAZE: It seems we got lot of fellas from camp Goshen. Anyway, there is nothing special about that. Lets go back to what happens when Goshen360 and Obadiah777 are both on stage draggingly the slam.


Toward the end of the battle, Goshen360 started speaking in foreign language. He lost it and was no where to be found.


Judging from the survival match on Sep 01 , 2012; it is clear to us that Obadiah777 gave Goshen360 the greatest hit. Hmmmm, Goshen360 returns to his feet challenging Obadiah777 again.


I remembered a saying in Yoruba, "Agbo to tan di seyin, Agara lo mu wa" meaning "the sheep that reverse went to get more power". This is the reason Goshen360 is flooding in soldiers like goshap, frosbel and likes I don't wanna mention.


It a sunny sunday, and this match will be the greatest. Happy viewing

Yes, we are really in for a big one here. This should be epic.

frosbel: are you here for entertainment or to learn scripture brother.

One minute you believe in God, the next minute you are not sure , this is not entertainment, this is a battle for the truth.

Yes, a battle for the truth. What makes your interpretations true and Obadiah's own a lie? Afterall, the ''Holy Spirit'' gave you both the interpretations. Bottomline is, this thread is not going to change anything. You'll carry on with your own interpretation and Obadiah will carry on with his, nothing will change at all. This is just pointless.

Both sides are still taking their time before the main battle commences, meanwhile Obadiah has been trying to fend off the attack from camp Goshen.

FOLYKAZE: Wait wait wait, who is this goshap? This is becoming unbecoming. Huh huh Obadiah777, this is turning to two against one.

Goshen360, come out of your hiding dungeon.

This gonna be superb

Must be his powerful minion. Word reaching me is that he has been loaded with some of Goshen's anointing just to show Obadiah what he's about to face.