₦airaland Forum

He is still serving God...only, in another capacity. It is not only popes that serve God. I'm sure you know that.

hod898: What can I say if it's God that asked him to step down? He did the right thing to obey God's instruction, but I didn't know that serving God has tenure; I only know that we serve God even to the end, like Jesus said, "but whoever holds on to the very end shall be saved." matt10:22
And besides op, this post is as if the author was trying to make it long-- too many irrelevant repetitions.

Precisely what you're doing.

Logicboy03: Smh...keep projecting and strawmanning.

Ah! You are suddenly against abortion you believe Iin the afterlife?

You are beginning to sound more religious than many religious people.

Logicboy03: Assumptions- the mother of all fockups

I tire for him and most Atheists.

davidylan: As a scientist, i call the above ignorant nonsense. Scientists make conjectures all the time that can be grossly erroneous and have no basis in facts. Ask any industry scientist how they feel about academic scientist...

in addition, there is this misguided claim that somehow some amorphous, ill-understood "scientific process" is a foolproof system of checks and balances that ensures that whenever any scientist makes a claim, it should automatically be taken with full confidence. It is completely misguided and simply a fig leaf for those who piggy-back on "scientific claims" they cannot defend logically (i.e. they couch their own ignorance with "a scientist said it so it must be true". To say that scientists do not suffer from any grand delusions of infallibility again is a clear demonstration that the person making such a statement absolutely has no friggin clue but is just making stuff up. Google www.retractions.com and see the dramatic rise in the number of "scientific truths" that are retracted from peer-reviewed literature due to plagiarism, falsification of results and downright fraud. Not everything that has the tag "science" should be taken with more than a grain of salt...

You say that it is a fact that Genesis is a result of a plagiarized ancient text.

Where is your evidence?

Or you just BELIEVE the person who told you so without proof.

Where is your proof that we evolved from humanoids or hominids?

Dont your just believe the scientists that say these things?

plaetton: Oh yes, I have.
To start, I have given many biblical references. Does that not count as evidence, or what do you think?

How do you know we worship idols. You are God who sees the heart?

Chigozie1984: You miss the bus. I am not here to judge anyone, nut really now why on earth would you worship an idol, why it is stated do not worship something that is made by human hands (Ps 115) and yet you are doing it every Sunday.

And by the way that is not their right names, Jesus and God, made up by humans.
Follow the commands from the most High, and you will know better.

Chigozie1984: You miss the bus. I am not here to judge anyone, nut really now why on earth would you worship an idol, why it is stated do not worship something that is made by human hands (Ps 115) and yet you are doing it every Sunday.

And by the way that is not their right names, Jesus and God, made up by humans.
Follow the commands from the most High, and you will know better.

Mr Troll: what you claim as truth or certainty does not make sense. We've all heard it and they dont make sense so we'll continue searching.

All the progress you see today in this world are as a result of science: transport, communication etc

Science also produced guns, bombs, chemical weapons, dangerous radiation, depletion of the ozone layer causing global warming etc.

The truth is, science is a result of man using God's gift to us to evaluate and understand the world he has given us.

Science as a gift from God can be used for good or bad...depending on whether we choose to do God's will with it or not.

Mr Troll: so excuse us when we dont subscribe to your religious nonsense that has only served to spread fear, hatred, discrimination, and silly promises of an afterlife somewhere with a mentally unstable skydaddy.

Religion has also served to spread calmness, love, inclusion and the promise of eternal life with God if we live according to his will. Religion like science can be used for good or evil.

Sadly, Satan in you will has not let you admit the good that religious people have done and the bad scientists have done.

Wrong. I dont assume he was an Atheist. I only assume he was killed by people of faith for his belief or unbelief (whatever it might be).

I was responding to to those who seized it as an opportunity to talk about the evil that people of faith do.

Why is it wrong for me to point out that there are evil people of all creeds?

What would you have me say, Atheist? "RIP?"

And why are sad that he is dead when you would have had no problem if he was murdered 2 seconds before his birth?

But you dont believe anybody rests in peace after death.

Logicboy03: What kind of heartless person is this? Someone died and because you assume that he was an atheist, you go on to bash atheists.


Are you being a good christian with such a comment?

You got me flattered...yet confused.

I just wonder who's right it is to decide right and wrong...for Atheists.

Logicboy03: Dont fall my hand, Italo. You know that I separate you and the protestants because cathecism givesca deeper understanding of faith. The average reverend father is far more knowledgeable than the average pastor. Thats why it only takes 4 catholics to debunk ghe numerouspentecostals here on nland.



Atheists dont just look at the universe like some mechanical mixture of chemicals and matter. No, we are more spiritual than that....we look at the wonders of science and nature. We dream sci fi dreams too. We cherish this one life we are given

Interesting! Atheists believe in right and wrong?

How can you believe that when you say the world is just a random chemical process with no meaning.

tuagbo: Please and please,my fellow atheists STOP arguing with all these "religious folks." The more you argue with them,the more you give them legitimacy.They don't care if their views are right/wrong,sane/insane,black/white/grey.They only seek for one thing;LEGITIMACY.Even a close atheist friend of Professor Dawkins once gave him this advice.Please,HEED IT.

At least, read and understand before you reply. I didnt imply that killing is only done by Atheists.

I'm saying, if there was no God, there would be no credible basis to define anything as good or bad...even killing.

[quote author=Ghostface_killa]That's a very shallow conclusion.....even the religious have a history of killing people so?....[/quote]

Why then do you ask your pastor, friends and family to pray for you.

superior1: 1 Timothy 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time

The verse is self explanatory, the only mediator we have is Jesus. Mary and other saints also needed that mediator for them to get saved, we do not need praying to or through Mary, dead saints, dead bones nor beating ourselves like goats etc. We only have to go through Jesus Christ our Mediator in faith.

No. The same verse it was written that St Luke worshipped the bible and his pastor

superior1: And where in the Bible was it written that Luke was given to worshipping of dead bones

Oh! I get it, in the infallible mind of Mr. Francis

You are still searching yet you are constantly insulting those who claim to be certain.

That doesnt depict open-mindedness.

plaetton: Yes indeed my good sire. I am confused, but still searching. I am a walking question mark, as should be ever thinking person.

But alas, not you, fir you have already figured it all out. Haven't you?

Well, a famous quote goes like this:
" It is better to start from a position of doubt to arrive at certainty, than to start from a position of certainty to arrive at doubts."

I never said "faith in science." You concocted that for yourself. If you want to argue with me, argue against my position, not against a position you made up for me.

I said you have "faith in what some scientists say."

Because you have shown us any evidence for the things you said.

You just believe the scientists that told you so...as I believe my clerics without empirical evidence of many spiritual truths.

plaetton: Italo,
Faith in science is an oxymoron.
Saying faith in science means that you do not understand what either of these two words mean.
C'mon, you can do better than that.

Do you believe in love, dreams, imagination etc...

ninja4life: do u believe in hell myth,tithes,miracles etc

You havent given any evidence. You only have faith in what some scientists say.

plaetton: Pls don't insult us with faith crap. Don't u know the meaning of Faith?
Talking snake, six days of creation, resurrection, perpetual virginity of mary, those are faith.
On the hand, we you have several pieces of evidence, even if anecdotal, that when assembled together, points to certain direction, is is only sensible look closely at where the evidence is pointing at. No faith required.

There is no room for faith i thinking person's brain.

If there was no God, there would be no good and bad...so it would be okay to kill anyone.

Atheists are no better..if not even worse. You also kill people for their beliefs...and there are millions and millions of examples.

Besides, why is it such a problem if life on earth is just a random occurence with no purpose?

Maybe the killers were just being part of that randomness.

Evil is evil...but why do Atheists believe anything can be evil?

Who defines what is evil?

wiegraf: The question does not portray 'human reasoning', what does that even mean? It portrays the sort of reasoning you have in the op. Have you been through the many islamic 'scientific' threads? Or even just google articles on these 'scientific claims', there are myriad. If you have, can you honestly look me in the eye and tell me you consider them valid? These sorts of posts (or 'human reasoning') all share the same characteristics, featuring vague, hit and miss predictions and making absolutely NO testable hypothesis/insight of any merit. In short; nonsense.

Consider claims about where the gods have been. At first, trees, rocks, etc. Find no gods there? Look for text that can be interpreted as it being elsewhere, like the sky. Tower of babel is now built, god destroys it. But look at this, science has now enabled us to venture into the sky, so what do you do? Look for text that claims he's immaterial. Brilliant. There's no way you can test such nonsense. Now, considering history and a lot of other similar drivel in said storybook, exactly why do you expect to be taken seriously by skeptics? People not interested in subscribing to blind, irrational faith? Really? (To top it up, some of you have the gall to label us arrogant).

When using text from your bible scientists are able to come about a theory which predicts light bending around the sun to a high degree of accuracy, before it's been even observed or conceived of by any of us poor mortals, and show that it is indeed so, then we'll take you seriously. Don't show up after science has figured out history then stretch definitions to fit your purpose and expect to be taken seriously. Really. What happens now if science, which is built around refinement and falsification, shows one those 'days' you have above never took place, or figures out there's a couple of other days hidden in there? You'll now perform gymnastics again, claiming that's not what the bible text meant. The bible can never be wrong... It was xx.Bleep blah blah blah more BS. Just like how I would shift the target at the shooting range after having missed the target completely, then claim I'm a perfect shot, see?

The above is rough (for one, no time to be thorough), but it should get my point across (to the sane, at least)

And the sane would know that the Bible is not a science textbook.

wiegraf: Not going to waste time going through all that op. Don't need to read a book featuring; cockatrices; talking snakes, donkeys and fires; virgi.n births and zombies; capricious, malevolent omnixx.x gods that thrive on pissing all over logic and common sense; etc etc to be able to tell you it's a story book. Especially when said book was written during a period when most thought the earth flat (some even thought it on top of a turtle) with the sun revolving around it. Why you'd go through such lengths to try and prove otherwise, frankly, bewilders me. Perhaps during that age it was compelling fiction, but by today's standards it's clearly not.

Anyways, I'll leave you with this; if I went to a shooting range, took a shot, walked over to were the bullet hit then drew the target around it, would you take my claim of being a brilliant shot seriously?

To this day, religious and non-religious people say "the sun rises and sets." Does that mean that we are all senseless?

Teesoft12: It would be foolish to argue this cos the inconsistency in the Bible is so ,much that it would take too long to point this out, what is important is that everyone believe in whatever they choose to believe in, being a Christian doesn't make you better, amd science would never ever agree with Religion never, its pointless trying to relate both, Science is base on knowing while Religion is based on ignorance and believin even though what you believe in isn't rational, so this sought of debate is irrelevant and compete waist of time and please for the fact that someone doesn't believe in what you believe in doesn't make him or her wrong.... Peace

True faith and true science can NEVER contradict each other.

Science is based on knowing through physical methods. Religion is based on knowing through revelation from God. Faith transcends the scope of science.

Evil Brain: (I don't know why its so hard for you people to realize that you can only learn about science from a scientist and not from a religious cleric)

Fallacy! If the religious cleric has learnt correctly from a scientist, you are better off learning science from him than a dishonest scientist.

Also...Religious clerics are the pioneers and backbones in many scientific areas.

Funny thing is, he has provided for us, no concrete evidence for all he has said.

He just BELIEVES the words of men.

It turns out that even Atheists live by FAITH.

davidylan: Plaetton is still here creating meaningless tomes about a "god" he supposedly doesnt think exists?

Evil Brain: Except that Galileo built a telescope which he used to observe the planet Jupiter and its moons and prove (as far as it was possible back then) that the earth was not the centre of the solar system. The church made no attempt to disprove his findings or proffer a better theory. They just imprisoneThus Galileo did not prove the theory by the Aristotelian d him and told him he was going to be tortured and killed unless he recanted. Go and read a little before you post nonsense.

So, immediately he built the telescope and observed Jupiter, the Church just threw him in prison. Haba! Say something reasonable. Is that the result of your research?
You must have read that from "PM News."

Evil Brain: Of course they had to be modified, he made his observations in 1610!!! Do you really expect him to have discovered the final answer to life, the universe and everything in 1610?!? You religious people say the daftest things sometimes.

FYI no scientific theory needs to be 100% accurate. Newton's wasn't, Einstein's isn't. All a theory needs is to be closer to the truth than what it's replacing. Galileo's was far better than the bronze age bullshiat the church was promoting at the time.

Galileo was propagating his idea as truth...and wanted the Church to change the way it interpreted scripture based on a theory he never proved according to the Aristotelian standards of science in his day. In his Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina and other documents, Galileo claimed that the Copernican theory had the "sensible demonstrations" needed according to Aristotelian science, but most knew that such demonstrations were not yet forthcoming. Most astronomers in that day were not convinced of the great distance of the stars that the Copernican theory required to account for the absence of observable parallax shifts. This is one of the main reasons why the respected astronomer Tycho Brahe refused to adopt Copernicus fully. Galileo could have safely proposed heliocentricity as a theory or a method to more simply account for the planets’ motions. His problem arose when he stopped proposing it as a scientific theory and began proclaiming it as truth, though there was no conclusive proof of it at the time. Even so, Galileo would not have been in so much trouble if he had chosen to stay within the realm of science and out of the realm of theology. But, despite his friends’ warnings, he insisted on moving the debate onto theological grounds. 

It is a good thing that the Church did not rush to embrace Galileo’s views, because it turned out that his ideas were not entirely correct, either. Galileo believed that the sun was not just the fixed center of the solar system but the fixed center of the universe. We now know that the sun is not the center of the universe and that it does move—it simply orbits the center of the galaxy rather than the earth. As more recent science has shown, both Galileo and his opponents were partly right and partly wrong. Galileo was right in asserting the mobility of the earth and wrong in asserting the immobility of the sun. His opponents were right in asserting the mobility of the sun and wrong in asserting the immobility of the earth. Had the Catholic Church rushed to endorse Galileo’s views—and there were many in the Church who were quite favorable to them—the Church would have embraced what modern science has disproved. 

Evil Brain: On the matter of the church's other crimes against humanity over the millenia, maybe you should drop the silly ad hominems and prove me wrong.

You are the accuser. It is you who needs to prove yourself right.

The bitter ones are the ones killing innocent priests, nuns, laity..burning their Churches under no provocation.

Other bitter ones are their nairaland fans who have little regard for human lives.

Look at the news all over the world and show me the bitter ones.

Thanks. Will download this too.

Of course! Does she have to say it before you know?

Go get a grammar teacher.

It wasnt me that derailed anything. A Muslim asked me if the terrorists are following the teachings of the Quran and I posted those verses to prove that they are.

You see that you appear to be the bitter one.

Look before you leap.

Coco diva: What exactly are you trying to prove here. If you are so bitter and want to display your knowledge of the Quran and hadith why not start a thread for that and stop derailing someone else's

So Muhammad too did not het Allah's message right when he led Muslims to kill infidels?

Teach Muhammad and I how to get it right then...

Mjjordan: guy abeg read ur own bible and understand it first bfor tryn to quote any verse from d quran.ok?u obviously cant get it ryt..

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"