₦airaland Forum

chreldb:
I'm surprised that no one else has taken you up on this point. There is nothing else I can think of that has denigrated women more than religion. I challenge you to strengthen your claim by defending these parts of the bible in quote.

Deutronomy 22:13-14; 20-21 "13;If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14; charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,

"20; But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21; they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

""And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the LovePeddler, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)"

""When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her." (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)"

""Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)"

""But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)"

""Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)"

""Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)"


""If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silvers, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)"

""Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)"

""Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." (Hosea 13:16)"



And so on and so forth...... So what is this you say about Christianity bringing about civilisation and gender equality? Because what is in the bible is an absolute contradiction to those claims.

My religion is Christianity. The teachings of Christianity are the Church's interpretation of the Bible, not yours.

I earlier posted Catholic teaching on equality. Please read.

adsonstone:
...blah blah blah!
You can say all the good you can find...other bodies do good, so, it is not surprising.

I don't have time for stories

From the ones you made earlier:


I wonder why you're finding it hard to list the evils of the rcc...even when you are aware they do/have done evil(s).

ifeness:
Are you having a laugh? Christianity showed women were equal to men? Didn't the bible clearly ask them never to speak in front of a man? In fact the were never counted in the population censor. In the bible, women are allowed to be raped and called spoils of war!

Get your brain right!

safarigirl:
it is not my job to educate you, because just like salvation, the road to enlightenment is a personal race.

I cannot even waste the little knowledge I have gathered on Nigerian Christians because I have found that 97% of them are close-minded people. Even if I brought hard evidencee to dispute what you have accepted as 'facts' you will still argue blindly. You are all programmed like that.

Read Dan Brown's history, discover why a man with access to the Vatican library, a man with a deeper understanding of the Catholic faith than any of you half-baked Catholics in Nigeria, would become an atheist.

Try and read with an open mind, so you can sieve true facts from exaggerations,.because you have all been told to ignore that man and have done so religiously because of your fear of the unknown.

Enlighten yourself, don't wait for someone to enlighten you, your religion cannot grant you eternal life. Surely, you know that Christians are not the only beings in Heaven.

freecocoa:
Pray tell when/where atheists rap*d kids or killed and justified it.

herald9:
Italo, why are you trying to narrow the topic from religion to catholicism?

herald9:
It's laughable when you said science was invented by the Catholic Church. Please stop spamming ignorance all over this thread and read deeper.

sweetgala:
Actually Christianity did not show women are equal to men, it says it rather clearly that women are not equal in capacity or essence to men , but are just as special.

They are not created for servitude unto men but as special company giver, and vehicle for life. They are God's special creation

zicoraads:
This argument was supposed to be about religion in general. And when italo started off with his points, I expected him to address Christianity as a whole. Instead, he still unleashed the same attitude most, if not all catholics have that I always find annoying. Catholics never fail to disappoint with their attitude of 'Catholic till I die'. To them, every other christian is wrong. They see nothing good in other denominations. Theirs is the best!

safarigirl:
oya,.Chief Defence Secretary of the Catholic church,.come and answer.

If the church had not gone on a killing and maiming spree against early Scientists who disputed some of their teachings, there would be no illuminati cult today.

safarigirl:
The Catholic church did not support early scientific discoveries and were even enraged that someone would suggest God didn't really create the earth via Adam and Eve,

safarigirl:
we who read, know how they jailed those early scientists and tortured them to retract the theory of the big bang, now italo is telling us the church 'supported' science and was even responsible for it.

safarigirl:
@italo, I beg you in the name of all that is Holy, just stop!

Twas hard reading the second page with all your spans there.....most of the things you claimed were stopped by the Catholic church were in fact stopped by Presbyterian and Methodist churches andd pray tell, what was 'evil' about Polygamy? So, all the men with one wife who now cheat on their wives are better than polygamists?

safarigirl:
You already sound brain-washed with all your "the Catholic church has only done good to the world" preaching.

safarigirl:
The church has told you all they want you to know, but nobody will ever tell you the bad they've done. After all, if you write your CV, will you add that you took bribes in your former work place on it?

safarigirl:
I'm also Catholic, and I defend the Catholic church most times, but even I know the hypocrisy that lies in that church and it is sickening.

PAGAN9JA:
bloody hell! The Spanish Inquistion!

marcondo13:
@ italo, you are a good example of what the OP was talking about! I am a practicing Christian but I kick against man made dogma. Even Saint Paul talked about the doctrines of man.
Because you are a Catholic, does that mean that you will turn a blind eye to the excesses of the Church, and pass it off as individual errors? Even Pope John Paul apologised to the world, the jews, gypsies, moriscos for their persecution by the Catholic Church in 2000,during the Jubilee service. Abi you want to deny it? Google is there for all.
As for Science, I pity you and other brain washed Africans who believe the bullshit taught in school. I learnt the philosophy of Science at the University and everything was about the Greeks, and little about the Egyptians.
Was is it the Catholic church that built the libraries of Timbuktu and Alexandria ? When the Sumerians invented the wheels and alphabeths, Abraham was not even born! When the Mayans were cauterising wounds and carrying out bone transplant and other advanced surgical operations, the Early Church were hiding in the Catacombs of Rome. Perhaps, you have not heard of the Dogon civilization of Mali . They predicted astronomical phenomena and did calculations with pin point accuracy, years before Galileo was born! Na the Church teach the Babylonians about the rings of Saturn, thousands of years before the telescope was invented? There is over a million year old nuclear rector in Africa, who built it?
The Church has always kicked against scientific discoveries that exposed the fallacies of several doctrines of man . Why did fight against Galileo and Copernicus when the book of Job said that God is sitting on the circle of the earth and that He hang the earth on nothing? Blood circulation is in the Bible but did the Church support Harvey? NO!
We are told that Hippocrates is the Father of medicine, but, his ideas were based on the teaching and research of Imhotep, an Egyptian priest! Has the Church ever come out to correct that error since there are veritable records in the Vatican archives? How can a dirty Idol worshiping Black man be named the Father of Modern Medicine? Impossible! Rather, his name was further blackened in the movie trilogy, "The Mummy", as a flesh eating priest! They were more concerned with the Da Vinci code!
The Arabs have been enslaving blacks for centuries, but the Catholic Church perfected the act of modern slaves trade. It was a Catholic priest, who suggested that Africans should be brought to the New World ( North America and the Carribeans) because the natives were been exterminated! Wikipaedia is your friend. History is full of the excesses of the Church since the days that the Florentine State Secretary, Niccolo Machiavelli wrote his master piece, the Prince, which he modelled on Cesare Borgia, the son of a supposedly celibate Pope!
I don't want to talk about the events around the collaboration with the Nazis and the Mussolini gang during WWII. It is an open secret. Pope John Paul has said it all. Perhaps, you have not read the recent Wiki leaks about the Saudi Government 's cables to the Vatican about the Syrian Govt, with regards to ISIS!
When the Archbishop of Canterbury decided on ordaining gay priests, the Nigerian Anglican Prelate rallied the Church worldwide and stoop up against him! What happened when the butler to the last Pope was jailed for released documents showing massive frauds, nepotism and contract racketeering among top Cardinals in the Vatican, did the Nigerian arm of the Catholic Church say a word? Nope! They were more interested in tearing down CAN because Cardinal Onaiyekan lost the Presidential elections. He simply lost because the Nigerian Christian house is tired of his pro - Northern establishment stance and continued ass licking of the Sultan in the face of continued massacre of Christians in the North! He just could not stop talking about his time with Sir Ahmadu Bello, fiddling while Borno was on fire!
Juvenal once rightly quipped "it was fear that first created the gods". We have stopped reading and that is the reason why the African people is backward! If not, How can an educated man believe that killing a fellow human is a short cut to Paradise, or donating all your financial resources to the Church will invoke God's blessings, when the person in question, is corrupt?
Until the day that the African people, and Nigerians in particular, really sit up and search the Scriptures or other Holy books, and compare it to what they are told, we will never be free intellectually!

CharlieMaria:
Man what a nice and excellent defence of the Catholic faith. Pls can we hook up?

ZUBY77:
Will you shut up and listen to Reason.
What makes Catholic better than others?
Just because you belong there, right?

They are all designed to brainwash you.
It doesn't mean that they don't have good features.

The point here is that they are full of blinding lies

johnydon22:
Again Scientific Model is a scientific method not science in general, you have to first know the difference between Science in general and scientific methods. . . What we are talking about is SCIENCE not scientific methods ..

This is like saying Mathematics is a product of Pythagoras because he developed the Pythagoras theorem (tho borrowed from Egyptians) Honestly learn first before arguing, because this is very disgracing

Lets take you down historical timeline...

The first organized religion in history is Sangam Hinduism 9831BC and hinduism is a product of varying philosophical teachings and texts.

" Although Hinduism contains different [size=16]philosophies,[/size] it is united
by shared concepts, same textual resources, common ritual techniques,
cosmology and pilgrimage to sacred sites. " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

Again philosophy in general deals with questions on existence and reality and from this questions arose answers such as "God did it" from whence religion is rooted.

It actually is saddening to me that such a young man do not know what philosophy in general means.

Now that you have been shown that the first religion ever is a product of different philosophies, lets hope you won't still ask if philosophy predates religion..

adsonstone:
Infact, Scientific Method has been around before the advent of Roman catholicism.

Tell me more about how roman catholicism invented science...



Nice try Mr.
...but sorry, that does not tell that science was 'invented' by the roman catholic church.

Is there a need for you to be educated on the origin of science?

I think there a need because it seems you have opted to be ignorant of it.

Science has existed before Roger Bacon, Grosseteste or even any 'pope' or catholic priest....tell me more about how Catholicism invented science....or you want to rewrite history?

Zedric:
Dude, what rubbish is this? That catholic church helped science? Catholic Church started university? Read a book bro. The fact that you can mention few scientists that were Catholic doesn't mean they were the pioneers if science. Science in the beginning was a sin to the church, do you know the number of atheist scientists we have? Muslim scientists? Indian scientists? I could go on and list names but that won't help you, you are just a click away from Google.

Do you know where the 1st university was established? Somewhere catholic churches had no reach. You listed some "new-age" scientists (between the 1600s and the 1900s), now I ask you, sir, was that when the scientific process started? The age if Galileo, The Greek scholars, The Egyptian scholars, the Sumerian scholars, the Babylonian scholars, The Arabs should all be wiped away? Read a book, sir, read a book

adsonstone:
From all your stories of good by the roman catholic church comes this;

"The Methodist Church, among other Christian denominations, was responsible for the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus's command to spread the Good
News and serve all people."

Now who is 'shamelessly' trying to take someone else's glory?

....or maybe these ones too are roman catholics....

My point in all these 'good deeds' is that many other bodies do them...even non christian bodies, so you need not ascribe it all to roman catholicism.

So, would you be honest enough to list some evils just as you have listed some good?

Or do you want to keep embracing hypocrisy in public?




...but your post reveals you know them...

Anyway, I'll gladly wait for you to get some rest and think about the evils and post them at your convenient time.

After you post the evils, then I can post the good Deeper life has done.

adsonstone:
From all your stories of good by the roman catholic church comes this;

"The Methodist Church, among other Christian denominations, was responsible for the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus's command to spread the Good
News and serve all people."

Now who is 'shamelessly' trying to take someone else's glory?

....or maybe these ones too are roman catholics....

My point in all these 'good deeds' is that many other bodies do them...even non christian bodies, so you need not ascribe it all to roman catholicism.

So, would you be honest enough to list some evils just as you have listed some good?

Or do you want to keep embracing hypocrisy in public?

adsonstone:
...but your post reveals you know them...

Anyway, I'll gladly wait for you to get some rest and think about the evils and post them at your convenient time.

After you post the evils, then I can post the good Deeper life has done.

chibecanglobal:
Yet the inquisition was used to suppress reason.

urheme:
I love this guy

Well grounded in his faith, your confident and composure make me wanna be a catholic but am not convinced.

I still detaste religion as it is now.

PAGAN9JA:
Yet India is a staunchly Hindu Country.

Why? because the Government, Healthcare, businesses etx.. is all run by Hindus!

johnydon22:
Lol. . .Bros scientific model is a scientific method not SCIENCE as a whole..
We know all know "Science as a word is a new add to lingual arena. . . When we speak of science we talk of science in general and that predates study that goes beyond the emergence of the name science...what the ancient knew as Natural Philosophy

Alchemy, Biology, Mathematics and all are all branches of science and they date back to ancient civilizations..
It was an example of how philosophical positions give rise to religions. Buddhism and Confucianism are all religions now
Again you do not even know what philosophy is, i refer you to the above post again

johnydon22:
[b]Lol and you just showed you do not even know what Philosophy is... Calm down its not a fight, Church sponsoring science doesn't mean science was a product of the church, Islam also in a huge way affected the development of science this doesn't make science a product of islam. . . Scientific knowledge dates back to far more ancient civilizations like Egypt and Sumer.

Every answer in this world began with a question ( a question cannot be the product of an answer rather answers are products of questions)

Philosophy is as old as human reason deals with reason and proposes questions about reality that needs answers... (That is philosophy)

The products of this questions then branches off into cousins of answer approach, One of this answering approach is theology which holds the fabrics of religions itself.
It entails giving answers that can never be questioned...

And then another branch of approach is science which entails systematic and careful study, observations and reading of available datas on the subject before reaching a consensus logically on what it holds.

It all started as an approach to answer the question of existence and reality which is Philosophy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy

You only think i am here to argue on the catholic influence on science? Lol, science dates as far as ancient egypt which gives us a bedrock to almost all the knowledge we possess now.... I have no interest in condemning the catholic church or arguing over its influence (Positive or negative ) on science.

A blatant example of philosophy birthing religions recorded in recent historical timelines are evident enough in the Like of Great philosophers likes Confucius and Buddha. .

Philosophy only of recent was separated from other disciplines of study and became a distinct discipline itself [/b]

jozz:
Exactly spoken. Catholicism-religion i have never understood.The questions i have asked i have not got answers.If you are a catholic you have serious thinking and research to do.Why not start with the blood stained history of the church as shown in the crusades and the inquisitions centuries ago and the modern day -the catholic church reaction to homosexuality.

All of what you mentioned above is true and good, including the body that participated... It's Christianity, not necessarily Roman Catholicism.

Prebysterians, Anglicans e.t.c are well known to have ended sacrificial killings, slavery and many other vices in so many regions.

Many other good related to the ones you mentioned were brought about by non-Christian bodies.


Now, having acknowledged these acts as good, will you now list the evils?

First, will be honest enough to acknowledge that she lied if she truly did...I wouldn't act in hypocrisy.

I have never seen you acknowledge any evil alleged against the Roman Catholic Church as true (even when your post suggests some are true allegations) neither have I ever seen/heard you state any evil the Catholic Church has done or has had a hand in.

That is the reason I have asked you to substantiate your statement in my post above.
Your post reveals that you're aware that the Catholic Church does or has done some evil but you're ever silent about it. That's simply hypocrisy.

scarred9jan:
Spanish Inquisition, the crusades, World War 2 etc.