₦airaland Forum

The Industrial Revolution brought many concerns about the deteriorating working and living conditions of urban workers. Influenced by the German Bishop Wilhelm Emmanuel Freiherr von Ketteler, in 1891 Pope Leo XIII published the encyclical Rerum novarum, which set in context Catholic social teaching in terms that rejected socialism but advocated the regulation of working conditions. Rerum Novarum argued for the establishment of a living wage and the right of workers to form trade unions.[140]

Quadragesimo anno was issued by Pope Pius XI, on 15 May 1931, 40 years after Rerum novarum. Unlike Leo, who addressed mainly the condition of workers, Pius XI concentrated on the ethical implications of the social and economic order. He called for the reconstruction of the social order based on the principle of solidarity and subsidiarity.[141] He noted major dangers for human freedom and dignity, arising from unrestrained capitalism and totalitarian communism.

The social teachings of Pope Pius XII repeat these teachings, and apply them in greater detail not only to workers and owners of capital, but also to other professions such as politicians, educators, house-wives, farmers bookkeepers, international organizations, and all aspects of life including the military. Going beyond Pius XI, he also defined social teachings in the areas of medicine, psychology, sport, TV, science, law and education. Pius XII was called "the Pope of Technology for his willingness and ability to examine the social implications of technological advances. The dominant concern was the continued rights and dignity of the individual. With the beginning of the space age at the end of his pontificate, Pius XII explored the social implications of space exploration and satellites on the social fabric of humanity asking for a new sense of community and solidarity in light of existing papal teachings on subsidiarity.[142]

The Methodist Church, among other Christian denominations, was responsible for the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus's command to spread the Good News and serve all people.[143][144] In Western nations, governments have increasingly taken up funding and organisation of health services for the poor but the Church still maintains a massive network of health care providers across the world. In the West, these institutions are increasingly run by lay-people after centuries of being run by priests, nuns and brothers, In 2009, Catholic hospitals in the USA received approximately one of every six patients, according to the Catholic Health Association.[145] Catholic Health Australia is the largest non-government provider grouping of health, community and aged care services, representing about 10% of the health sector.[146] In 1968, nuns or priests were the chief executives of 770 of America's 796 Catholic hospitals. By 2011, they presided over 8 of 636 hospitals.[145]

As with schooling, women have played a vital role in running and staffing Christian care institutions - in Methodist hospitals, deaconesses who trained as nurses staffed the hospitals,[144] and in Catholic hospitals, through religious institutes like the Sisters of Mercy, Little Sisters of the Poor and Sisters of St. Mary - and teaching and nursing have been seen as "women's vocations". Seeking to define the role played by religious in hospitals through American history, the New York Times noted that nuns were trained to "see Jesus in the face of every patient" and that:[145]

“ Although their influence is often described as intangible, the nuns kept their hospitals focused on serving the needy and brought a spiritual reassurance that healing would prevail over profit, authorities on Catholic health care say. ”

Adsonstone, more from wiki,

Francisco de Vitoria, a disciple of Thomas Aquinas and a Catholic thinker who studied the issue regarding the human rights of colonized natives, is recognized by the United Nations as a father of international law, and now also by historians of economics and democracy as a leading light for the West's democracy and rapid economic development.[124]

Joseph Schumpeter, an economist of the twentieth century, referring to the Scholastics, wrote, "it is they who come nearer than does any other group to having been the ‘founders’ of scientific economics."[125] Other economists and historians, such as Raymond de Roover, Marjorie Grice-Hutchinson, and Alejandro Chafuen, have also made similar statements. Historian Paul Legutko of Stanford University said the Catholic Church is "at the center of the development of the values, ideas, science, laws, and institutions which constitute what we call Western civilization."[126]


The Catholic Church has contributed to society through its social doctrine which has guided leaders to promote social justice and providing care to the sick and poor. In orations such as his Sermon on the Mount and stories such as The Good Samaritan, Jesus called on followers to worship God, act without violence or prejudice and care for the sick, hungry and poor. Such teachings are the foundation of Catholic Church involvement in social justice, hospitals and health care.

Medieval period Edit
The Catholic Church established a hospital system in Medieval Europe that was different from the merely reciprocal hospitality of the Greeks and family-based obligations of the Romans. These hospitals were established to cater to "particular social groups marginalized by poverty, sickness, and age," according to historian of hospitals, Guenter Risse.[139]

Adsonstone, more from wiki:


Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, homosexuality, transvestism, and incest.[41] Historically, Christian churches have regarded homosexual sex as sinful, based on the Catholic understanding of the natural law and traditional interpretations of certain passages in the Bible.

Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, abortion, infanticide, child abuse, homosexuality, transvestism, and incest.[41] Although some Christian ideals were adopted by the Roman Empire, there is little evidence to link most of these laws to Church influence.[48] After the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as the official religion, however, the link between Christian teachings and Roman family laws became more clear.[49]

For example, Church teaching heavily influenced the legal concept of marriage.[50] During the Gregorian Reform, the Church developed and codified a view of marriage as a sacrament.[17] In a departure from societal norms, Church law required the consent of both parties before a marriage could be performed[41] and established a minimum age for marriage.[51] The elevation of marriage to a sacrament also made the union a binding contract, with dissolutions overseen by Church authorities.[52] Although the Church abandoned tradition to allow women the same rights as men to dissolve a marriage,[53] in practice, when an accusation of infidelity was made, men were granted dissolutions more frequently than women



In opposition to this view, some historians of science, including non-Catholics such as J.L. Heilbron,[75] A.C. Crombie, David Lindberg,[76] Edward Grant, Thomas Goldstein,[77] and Ted Davis, have argued that the Church had a significant, positive influence on the development of Western civilization. They hold that, not only did monks save and cultivate the remnants of ancient civilization during the barbarian invasions, but that the Church promoted learning and science through its sponsorship of many universities which, under its leadership, grew rapidly in Europe in the 11th and 12th centuries. St.Thomas Aquinas, the Church's "model theologian," argued that reason is in harmony with faith, and that reason can contribute to a deeper understanding of revelation, and so encouraged intellectual development.[78] The Church's priest-scientists, many of whom were Jesuits, have been among the leading lights in astronomy, genetics, geomagnetism, meteorology, seismology, and solar physics, becoming some of the "fathers" of these sciences. Examples include important churchmen such as the Augustinian abbot Gregor Mendel (pioneer in the study of genetics), Roger Bacon (a Franciscan friar who was one of the early advocates of the scientific method), and Belgian priest Georges Lemaître (the first to propose the Big Bang theory). Other notable priest scientists have included Albertus Magnus, Robert Grosseteste, Nicholas Steno, Francesco Grimaldi, Giambattista Riccioli, Roger Boscovich, and Athanasius Kircher. Even more numerous are Catholic laity involved in science:Henri Becquerel who discovered radioactivity; Galvani, Volta, Ampere, Marconi, pioneers in electricity and telecommunications; Lavoisier, "father of modern chemistry"; Vesalius, founder of modern human anatomy; and Cauchy, one of the mathematicians who laid the rigorous foundations of calculus.

Many well-known historical figures who influenced Western science considered themselves Christian such as Copernicus,[79] Galileo,[80] Kepler,[81] Newton[82] and Boyle.[83]

According to 100 Years of Nobel Prize (2005), a review of Nobel prizes awarded between 1901 and 2000, 65.4% of Nobel Prize Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference (423 prizes).[84] Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace,[85] 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics,[85] 62% in Medicine,[85] 54% in Economics[85] and 49.5% of all Literature awards.[85]

adsonstone:
Can you please, substantiate the bold by listing some of the numerous evils that has been done by the Roman Catholic Church?

I will start by listing some of the good that The Catholic Church and its heirachy has done.

And wait for you to tell me if they are truly good or not.

From wikipedia:

The role of Christianity in civilization has been intricately intertwined with the history and formation of Western society. Throughout its long history, the Christian Church has been a major source of social services like schooling and medical care; inspiration for art, culture and philosophy; and influential player in politics and religion. In various ways it has sought to affect Western attitudes to vice and virtue in diverse fields. It has, over many centuries, promulgated the teachings of Jesus within the Western world.

Festivals like Easter and Christmas are marked as public holidays; the Gregorian Calendar has been adopted internationally as the civil calendar; and the calendar itself is measured from the assumed date of Jesus's incarnation.

The cultural influence of the Church has been vast. Church scholars preserved literacy in Western Europe following the Fall of Rome.[1] During the Middle Ages, the Church rose to replace the Roman Empire as the unifying force in Europe. The cathedrals of that age remain among the most iconic feats of architecture produced by Western civilization. Many of Europe's universities were also founded by the church at that time. Many historians state that universities and cathedral schools were a continuation of the interest in learning promoted by monasteries.[2] The university is generally regarded as an institution that has its origin in the Medieval Christian setting.[3][4] The Reformation brought an end to religious unity in the West, but the Renaissance masterpieces produced by Catholic artists like Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and Raphael at that time remain among the most celebrated works of art ever produced. Similarly, Christian sacred music by composers like Pachelbel, Vivaldi, Bach, Handel, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert and Verdi is among the most admired classical music in the Western canon.

The Bible and Christian theology have also strongly influenced Western philosophers and political activists. The teachings of Jesus, such as the Parable of the Good Samaritan, are among the important sources for modern notions of Human Rights and the welfare measures commonly provided by governments in the West. Long held Christian teachings on sexuality and marriage and family life have also been both influential and (in recent times) controversial.

Christianity played a role in ending practices such as human sacrifice, slavery,[5] infanticide and polygamy.[6] Christianity in general affected the status of women by condemning infanticide (female infants were more likely to be killed), divorce, incest, polygamy, birth control, abortion and marital infidelity.[7] While official Church teaching[8] considers women and men to be complementary (equal and different), some modern "advocates of ordination of women and other feminists" argue that teachings attributed to St. Paul and those of the Fathers of the Church and Scholastic theologians advanced the notion of a divinely ordained female inferiority.[9] Nevertheless, women have played prominent roles in Western history through as part of the church, particularly in education and healthcare, but also as influential theologians and mystics.

Some of the things that Christianity is commonly criticized for include the oppression of women, condemnation of homosexuality, colonialism, and various other violence. Christian ideas have been used both to support and to end slavery as an institution. The criticism of Christianity has come from the various religious and non-religious groups around the world, some of whom were themselves Christians

adsonstone:
You always talk about the good done by the Roman Catholic Church and never speak of any evil act even when you are aware of it as your post reveals.

That is because I always speak in defense of the Church after its accusers have leveled allegations, both true and false.

If I say your mother is an evil perpetual liar because she told a lie, wouldn't you tell me how she is a good woman who takes good care of her family?

Would you need to repeat that she lied?

adsonstone:
Are you saying Science started just about 2000 years ago and that there was no science before the Catholic Church?

Besides, when exactly did the Catholic Church 'invent' this 'science' you speak about?

In modern usage "science" most often refers to a way of pursuing knowledge, not only the knowledge itself. In the 17th and 18th centuries scientists increasingly sought to formulate knowledge in terms of laws of nature. Over the course of the 19th century, the word "science" became increasingly associated with the scientific method itself, as a disciplined way to study the natural world, including physics, chemistry, geology and biology. It is in the 19th century also that the term scientist began to be applied to those who sought knowledge and understanding of nature.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

Edit
Roger Bacon was inspired by the writings of Grosseteste. In his account of a method, Bacon described a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the way he had conducted his experiments in precise detail, perhaps with the idea that others could reproduce and independently test his results.

About 1256 he joined the Franciscan Order and became subject to the Franciscan statute forbidding Friars from publishing books or pamphlets without specific approval. After the accession of Pope Clement IV in 1265, the Pope granted Bacon a special commission to write to him on scientific matters. In eighteen months he completed three large treatises, the Opus Majus, Opus Minus, and Opus Tertium which he sent to the Pope.[45] William Whewell has called Opus Majus at once the Encyclopaedia and Organon of the 13th century.[46]

Part I (pp. 1–22) treats of the four causes of error: authority, custom, the opinion of the unskilled many, and the concealment of real ignorance by a pretense of knowledge.
Part VI (pp. 445–477) treats of experimental science, domina omnium scientiarum. There are two methods of knowledge: the one by argument, the other by experience. Mere argument is never sufficient; it may decide a question, but gives no satisfaction or certainty to the mind, which can only be convinced by immediate inspection or intuition, which is what experience gives.
Experimental science, which in the Opus Tertium (p. 46) is distinguished from the speculative sciences and the operative arts, is said to have three great prerogatives over all sciences:
It verifies their conclusions by direct experiment;
It discovers truths which they could never reach;
It investigates the secrets of nature, and opens to us a knowledge of past and future.
Roger Bacon illustrated his method by an investigation into the nature and cause of the rainbow, as a specimen of inductive research

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_scientific_method

That is how the Catholic Church invented Science, which in modern sense, refers to the Scientific method.

Thank you.

johnydon22:
Funny how you thought he italo made a point when he clearly laid a mistaken notion of his doing.

Philosophy is the birth parent of both religion and science.. I thought you should know that bro

Then you should prove it by telling us when religion was born by philosophy...

Who were the philosophers that existed before religion...

Show evidence of what you say.

I mentioned the Catholics who were instrumental in developing the scientific model...

I mentioned that the Church founded Europe's first universities...

I mention a few Catholics who pioneered various fields in Science...and there are many more...

I mentioned how the Church nurtured and sponsored Science...

5minsmadness:
God bless you sir!
Most people on here are not interested in seeking the truth. They just argue to sensationalize or discredit or insult the Christian faith. . And when they are stumped they tell you that you have made no point and quickly walk away.

It's fruitless engaging in reasonable discussions here.

You're right. I do this sometimes to reassure Christians who are weak in faith...

...to show them that the Christian faith is not in contradiction to science or facts. That Christianity is not for people who are ignorant alone.

Christianity is for the brightest of minds.

As you can see on this thread, these people are very ignorant...willfully ignorant.

And that is why they are in darkness.

plaetton:
Indeed, the Catholic church is the Biggest charity in the world today. I commend them on those great works.
But, you should never deny the sordid history of the Catholic church by making hypicritical statements.

It's simple.

The Church teaches us to do good to the less privileged...and many Catholics do so.

So I commend the Church and members who follow that teaching.

The Church teaches loudly, clearly and consistently, that sex is for married couples only, yet a minute % of Catholics have been found to molest young boys.

I cannot blame the Church for that...I blame the individuals who refused to follow Church teaching.

However, when I look at the overall picture, the Church and its hierarchy have done faaaaaar more good than the evil they have done.

But enemies of the Church like you pick on one bad thing and blow it out of proportion...while ignoring the millions of good things happening every second in every country.

For example, you speak a lot about Priests who molested children...

Have you ever spoken about the hundreds of priests who remain in places like Syria and Iraq, even in North-eastern Nigeria (when they can easily get out, and many have given their lives for this) just to offer both spiritual and material relief to the traumatized citizens of all religions?

NO!

Why?

Because you're not interested in truth...you're interested in preaching against religion, irrespective of the truth.

What could it be, but dishonesty and hypocrisy, that makes you judge a religion, not on what it teaches, and not on the deeds of the majority who adhere to these teachings...but on the few who disregard its teachings?

If 11 of your 12 Children mostly do good as you taught them to...but one, who by the way also does good most times, ends up murdering someone...

Should you be ajudged an evil murderer?

plaetton:
Religion is a bane and affront to human dignity.

The Catholic Church fights for the dignity of the human being in the womb...

What do Atheists do about them?

plaetton:
Religion is a bane and affront to human dignity.
Haven't You even realized that yet.
The Catholic church, yes the grand ol Catholic church, for example, single handedly destroyed soo many beautiful and diverse cultures all over the world.

The Catholic church had, in her haydays, brought unthinkable distruction, suffering and disharmony to the world.
This is undeniable history.

Give examples.

I think you meant to say Atheism. See how many were killed in Soviet Union, Cambodia, China, North Korea etc. Dozens of millions! Atheists are the worst mass-murderers in history. E.g Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao...

When I look around the world, I see thousands and thousands of Catholic Charities, schools and hospitals. The Catholic Church is the biggest Charity organization in the world.

Will you deny that?

Stop killing yourself with envy.

The Church will continue to give life and relief, while Atheism will continue to bring death and anarchy.

plaetton:
Absolute nonsense, with all due respect.

You have spoken like a true Nigerian. As long as You look after your pretty little comforts, the rest of the society can go to hell.

If the Europeans can emasculate religion and Papal power, and could emasculate the absolute monarchies, then then there is no mental infestation that cannot be unyoked.

The problem with religion in Africa is that we have been culturally genocided long ago. So these useless toxic religious garbabe fills in the gaps where our self identity should have normally resided.
An African Catholic, for example, is like the mythical zombie, neither fully dead nor fully alive. No self identity and no appreciation of cultural heritage and origins.

I have an identity. I'm a child of God.

What is your identity? Does it include copying the Europeans?

How are you more alive than a Catholic?

plaetton:
What a liar and hypocrite You are.

I guess you have never heard of scandals involving Catholic priests having indiscriminate sexual or. Gies with underage boys right inside churchesy, even in the hallowed chambers of the Rvatican? E
A Catholic should be the last person to accuse others of sexual immorality. Your cult has a very very long history in the area of sexual perversions, Wars, mass murders, torture and fraud.
Were You born yesterday?

People who do those are doing contrary to what the religion teaches.

All peoples do bad things...but the Catholic Church teaches against these things...so a Catholic can boldly reprimand those who do these, even if they are Catholics.

That's the difference. Atheists molest little boys and justify it...they murder and justify it...

So I didn't lie. There was never civilization without religion...

...while Atheism has only ever brought death and destruction to the world. nothing good.

plaetton:
Bullshyte in capital letters.

How can you be sooo boldly ignorant?

An organised religion, the Catholic cult, Invented
, honed and perpertuated all the manifest evils of religion.

The Catholic cult sired all the dysfunctions in the religious marketplace.

Every evil we see today in religion, the Catholic cult Invented it.

Your typical ogogoro joint talk...

"Your papa dey crase," "your mama dey mad..."

NO PROOF!

Next.

plaetton:
Lol.
You freely and independently cling to what You have been fully brainwashed to believe.
You cling to the Catholic cult/church because it has become your only comfort zone,without which you have no compass.
That is a classical definition of a brainwashed person.

Now you're the one trying to brainwash me and force your doctrine down my throat.

Why are you hysteric?

The Catholic Church never did this to me.

It only showed me the way...I found, on my own that it was true, and I freely choose to be Catholic.

chibecanglobal:
Ask yourself why relgion keep changing over time.
Or have not you noticed that what are practised today as world religions are not same with what ppl practiced say 2500-2800 years ago?
Why is it that with all our religionism in the past we could not make enough advancement as we have done in the last couple of centuries when reason started to take its rightful place in the life of man.
Can you confidently say that religion is agreement with all scientific discoveries that man has been able to achieve thru the power of reason?

1. Man has not advanced to anywhere. He has moved forward in some areas and moved backward in other areas.

2. What reason took rightful place?

3. I don't understand what you mean by religion being in agreement with all scientific discovery.

4. Science was practically invented by the Catholic Church. It also sponsored and nurtured it. The Church founded Europe's first universities. Catholics like Thomas Aquinas and Francis Bacon contributed to developing the scientific model. Father Georges Lemaitre was the first to propound the big bang theory. Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism; Friar Gregor Mendel (1822–84) pioneered genetics. Many pioneers in science were Catholic lay and even clergymen.

The Catholic Church built the civilization you value.

chibecanglobal:
Lol!!!!

Unfortunately, you're 'lolling' a post made in ignorance.

Read on your own...don't just accept any ignorant opinion because it tallies with your opinion.

You should pursue truth...even if it shocks you.

afroniger:
Before I continue let me quickly say that this isn't about the Catholic church as an organized religious body, but about organized religion in general -- everything I said applies to every religious 'ism' out there (Catholicsm, Islamism, Buddhism, Hiduism, Protestantism, e.t.c). You are the one who brought the Catholic church into this. Now, I'll answer your first question with references from the Catholic church authority regarding my assertions.



Meaning that according to these edicts, you can't even begin to talk about forgiveness of sin (which is part and parcel of the Salvation idea) unless you're a Catholic subject.

And we all know Catholics ate barred from marrying outside their faith.

You interpret those statements differently from the way the Catholic Church interpretes them, according to the official teaching of the Church in its Catechism. Read below:[b]

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."
[/b]

Would you now humbly agree that you spoke out of ignorance?

Or will you keeping trying to discredit the Catholic Church based on your erroneous understanding of its teachings?

afroniger:
Now to your second question, I personally would consider you (based on your description of your beliefs) as a liberal practising Catholic who doesn't stricly adhere to the Church dogma, else you wouldn't hold that position.

False. Nowhere does the Church teach or encourage Catholics to fear death or the afterlife. Infact, we are taught to embrace death (when it comes) as a door to eternal life. No one controls our minds or coerces us. The Church proposes the way to all men...it is each person's choice to accept or reject it.

You continue to speak in ignorance.

afroniger:
Catholism itself isn't strictly based on the Bible and it confesses that much. Rather it's based more on the tradition of the early church 'fathers'.

Catholicism is based on Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

afroniger:
What I find interesting about Catholism is that on the one hand the popes warn christian adherents not to take the entire bible literally -- meaning they accept that much of it isn't true

False. That a statement is not literal doesn't mean it is untrue.

I see that all this antagonistic venom against the Church stems from ignorance.

afroniger:
-- yet the Pope derives his very infallibility authority from such a source? Smh.

False. The Pope existed and was infallible before the New Testament was ever written. Infact, it was under the infallible Pope Damasus that the complete Bible was compiled.

Let me advise you. Take a deep breath...humble yourself...then study these things through with a neutral mindset...then, your mind will be illuminated.

Igborance is like living in darkness.

plaetton:
My reply to Okogie would be him to stop talking nonsense.

Africa is tired of spiritual mumbo jumbo. The African mind is already clogged with too much spiritual garbage hawked by religious lackeys like him.

The African mind is in serious and urgent need of declogging from all the religious trashes foisted and spoonfed to African children by cultural traitors like him and his fraudulent pentecostal clowns.

What we definitely need more of in our educational system are Science, mathematics, history and cultural reorientation,not more middle east toxic wastes.

Okogie is a Christian who has founded a university that will teach the bold.

It's you who only talks rubbish. You do nothing to help humanity.

plaetton:
You selectively or ignorantly forgot to mention that the Catholic church was THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN during the medieval era.

It is like saying that because Nazism was the only Game in Town in the 1940s Germany, we can attribute all German engineering marvels to Nazi ideology.

That is a lie. Before, during and after the medieval era, there have been hundreds of religions in the world.

There was German engineering before the Nazi party...

And I never attributed all scientific marvels to the Catholic Church.

So your post in no way addresses mine.

I said the Catholic Church practically invented science, sponsored and nurtured it. I showed how Catholic clergy and laymen were pioneers of many scientific fields.

I did these in response to an ignoramus who thinks that religion is a bane to humanity, while science is opposite...not knowing that science is a child of religion.

menesheh:
go to wikipedia or google and research.




you talked about ignorance pretty much.


but you are the one ignorant of the persecutions of early scientists in Rome of which vatican is aware of.it is not a mere story but fact. google up.





ence theological teaching with his unproved theory.

"Go to google" has never been proof of anything.

If it were, I could tell you that "1+1=3...go to google"

I have shown how you know zero about the Galileo case.

You insist that the Church persecuted scientists...scientists that don't have names.

You still are ashamed to say whether my initial points are true...whether those Catholics I mentioned contributed to developing the scientific model...whether the Catholic Church founded Europe's first universities...

You just choose to remain in the darkness that your ignorance has brought you.

chibecanglobal:
Man was in his full glory before the advent of religion.
He started loosing it when he created religion instead of using reason which is the only God-given tool to achieve his purpose in life.
Thank God he is realising his folly and taking corrective steps.

When was this? When was the advent of religion? Who created religion? Which "God" do you speak of? How did you get to know about this "God?" What is man's purpose in life?

afroniger:
Any religion that tells you it's either her way or "hell fire", or that unless you adhere to its precepts your "sins" can't be forgiven is a brainwashing cult, or that unless your marriage is endorsed by their authority then it is invald, etc. Such dogma-based organizations encourage people to submit their individuality on the alter of religious cohesion and mind control. They prey on human fear of death and the after life.

Firstly, can you show where the Catholic Church says the bold?

Secondly, I'm Catholic, and I don't fear death or afterlife. I don't submit my individuality on the altar of religious coercion and mind control.

I individually and freely choose to cling to God who created me and the world. I know that if I die physically while in communion with him, I will be with him in the next life. So no fear.

menesheh:
Really?

Nice one.

You didn't say if the points I made are true or not. Please say!

menesheh:
Have ever read about the Catholic prosecutions, persecutions and executions of some great scientists that came up some finding that contradicts the teaching of the bible or the views of church?

Example?

menesheh:
Haven't about about how older scientists where silenced and some went into exile because of their scientific research by the papacy.

Example?

menesheh:
From 18th century downwards, there is no known non-believer, the church wanted to suppress science in other to maintain their delusion and dogma but truth and fact are not respecter of emotions, feelings and authority.

Example?

menesheh:
Those great scientist you claimed to be catholic, are just obeying the earthly divine totalitarian north korean regime of the papacy for fear of death in the case of apostasy.

You have no proof that that was their reason for remaining Catholic. If they were just there to avoid being killed, some of them would not have gone to the extent of becoming priests. You also have no proof that they would have been killed by the papacy if they stopped being Catholic.

I know you're ignorant, but I want to believe you're intelligent...so stop making allegations like a market woman and give me real instances and facts as I have given you.

menesheh:
Mind you, scientific research don't mind the illusion or myth that one hold. The bible say nothing about those inventions, discovers and research methodologies. How dare you claim that the catholic are the architect of science. It is brilliant and zealous individuals, no matter their faith, or the believe of the society they belonged, are the brains behind it all.

I have given you names of prominent Catholics to contributed to developing the scientific method. I have told you that the Church invented the modern university system. You could not disprove these and you're asking "how dare you?"

menesheh:
Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial [b]for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the Sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial. Catholic Church persecuted Galileo for abandoning the geocentric [/b]

False. That isn't the reason he was tried. You're very ignorant about the topic you're discussing.

Galileo never proved his theory to the scientific community of his day, yet he insisted on teaching it as a fact. Where is that done?

Also he tried to influence theological teaching with his unproved theory.

It is a good thing that the Church did not rush to embrace Galileo’s views, because it turned out that his ideas were not entirely correct, either. Galileo believed that the sun was not just the fixed center of the solar system but the fixed center of the universe. We now know that the sun is not the center of the universe and that it does move—it simply orbits the center of the galaxy rather than the earth.

OLAADEGBU:
Jesus has forgiven me already. So you now believe that I have to confess to Jesus, what happened to your priests? Are they no longer forgiving sins?

"But why do you judge your brother? or why do you set at nought your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" (Romans 14:10).



I thank God that you or your priests are not my judge otherwise I would receive no mercy. And before you run off with the verse you quoted up there you should balance it up with other verses such as the one below so you can have a better understanding of who Peter, who you claim is your first Pope is talking about. Take note of the bolded in both verses.

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power; When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day" (2 Thessalonians 1:8-10).

"For if we judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Corinthians 11:31-32).

True Christians either judge themselves or are disciplined by the Lord. We are not judged together with the world because we have already been judged in Christ.



The Judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor. 3:11-15; 2 Cor. 5:10; Romans 14:10) is what I would describe as an award ceremony where rewards or loss of rewards for believers are being determined. A thousand years after this, those who did not know God will be brought before God's white throne of Judgment (Rev.20:11-15) to be judged according to their works (note that there are books and there is a book of life). Those whose names were not found in the book of life were judged according to their works. This should tell you that believers are not judged together with the unbelievers but receive either rewards or the works will be burnt by fire but they are saved.

The bible clearly says in those verses that everyone will face judgement.

But you're telling me that the Bible is lying abi?

emmyrichie:
This piece is on point. They made selfish laws and made it sacred. Shior!

Give an example of the selfish law...

Who made it sacred?

chibecanglobal:
Let us all go back to reason to regain our glory as a people.
That is the true salvation we need as a people.
That is the emancipation every living soul needs.
That is the sure way of meeting "God".

What is this "glory"...and when did we have it in the past?

afroniger:
Much of organized religion is based on brainwashing techniques that robs and inhibits the individual from maximizing his potential and developing his reasoning faculty. This explains why many religious people would rather "fast and pray" for success and "breakthrough" rather than undergoing self-improvement and working harder and smarter.

Organized religion preys on the average person's fear of the uncertainties of life -- it falsely promises a structured (though complex) explanation for human existence and purpose that defies reason and consequently imprisons the mind.

False. I belong to Catholicism, an organized religion, and it doesn't have the features you described above.

You're speaking out of ignorance.

menesheh:
There is need to ridicule any of such ideas that is causing more harm to humanity and human civilization,
boko haram, ISIS, sex abuse and molestation by priest, discrimination against women and numerous others.
Leo Igwe, your efforts is highly appreciated but you Can't do it alone. Africa is such ignorance, poverty consumed and bonehead sort of people.

There was never civilization without religion. Christianity showed you that women are equal to men and should be treated with love and dignity. The enemies of religion, like you promote proliferation of indiscriminate sex including pornography which reduces women to little above animals with no love and dignity. It also increases unwanted pregnancies and you enemies of religion encourage the massacre of those innocent souls in the womb.

Those who molest children are clearly going against the Christian religion...so you can't say it was caused by religion.

The only thing Atheism has ever offered the world is death and destruction. E.g in Soviet Union, North Korea, Cambodia etc.

menesheh:
Keep that crap out of our classroom. Human specie have been under such nonsensical spiritual concept for millenia, nothing to show as its good outcome rather than wars, vendetta, hunger, hypocrites, racism, chauvinism, genocide, bigotry, prejudice and overall deterrent to human development and enlightenment.

If not for some old brilliant and brave scientists (Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, even Bertrand Russethat) continued doing stuffs against all odds, which is now the boon to our present wellbeing, civilization and freedom. Imagine how the scenario would have being, if humanity is still stocked with that vulgar bronze ages ideas till now.

Sir OKOGIE, we, new generations of Nigerian Society will not gonna allow you lobby for that.

Bros, the Catholic Church practically invented science. It not only did that, it also sponsored and nurtured it. The Catholic Church also invented the University system in the middle ages.

Many of the great pioneers in many scientific areas were Catholics, even priests.

The Catholic Church founded Europe's first universities, producing scholars like Robert Grosseteste, Albert the Great, Roger Bacon and Thomas Aquinas, who helped establish scientific method. Fr Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism; Friar Gregor Mendel (1822–84) pioneered genetics and Fr Georges Lemaitre (1894-1966) proposed the Big Bang cosmological model.

Some of the great scientists you mentioned were Catholic.

In short, the Catholic Church built The Western civilization you now value.

I just chose to illuminate your mind because I know that you spoke out of ignorance.

"My people perish for lack of knowledge!"

OLAADEGBU:
Do you know what it means to lie? If I had inadvertently said that you pretended not to have seen the thread does that constitute as a lie? If it does in your dictionary then I unreservedly apologise.



To err is human but to forgive is divine. You should not be too harsh with someone who makes a mistake, because all human beings make mistakes.

Go and apologize to God for being a shameless liar.

OLAADEGBU:
Believers in Christ will not be judged as their sins have already been judged in Christ Jesus.

Another lie! No wonder you lie for a living - because you were lied to in your protestant shop that you are saved so you will go to heaven even if you bomb an airplane. This is what happens when you don't listen to God's Catholic Church. You have to come up with lie after lie to defend your heresy.

1Pet4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; if it begins with us, what will be the end for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Rev20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their works, as recorded in the books. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done.

1Cor3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

2Cor5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

anukulapo:
I thought " We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29).


.

How can you obey God by disobeying his Church?

Do these verses mean anything to you or are they not in your bible:

Matt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Acts 5:4 "You did not lie to us[a] but to God!"

Acts15:28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials:

1Tim3:15 the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth

anukulapo:
I believe that the "church's" defined teachings are not ALWAYS superior to personal assessment. This is evident in the OT levitical order and in our own time hence "aligning" with such all in the name of "church" will be error and sin.
.

Please give one example of a Christian who held a doctrine contrary to Church doctrine in the Bible. Just one.

anukulapo:
The issue see here is:
Is it possible to have different opinions (and stands) about an issue?

.
Can one hold circumcision true while another believe otherwise? (Like Peter's group and Paul's)

If there are cases like this,does that mean God is causing confusion? I think not.

It means humans are causing confusion. It was precisely because of the circumcision issue that the Church held its first Council in Jerusalem in Acts15 to define the truth on that. After then, which Christian opposed the Church teaching?

Mention his name!

OLAADEGBU:
Yes, we have been talking on that thread but all you did was to prevaricate evading the pertinent questions raised. I didn't see you flex your doctrinal muscle as you are doing here.

Aha! So you lied when you said:

We are still waiting for you to flex your muscles in the thread (List of false roman catholic teachings) you pretended not to have seen.

Why should I take a shameless liar like you seriously?

Why should I treat you as a reasonable debater?

Why should I let you tell me how to reply your lies?



Anyway there are two judgements. It is not "flexing muscles," it is tapping from the "fullness of truth" which only exists in God's Catholic Church, not your made-made shops where your pastors make you eat snakes.