₦airaland Forum

Jeromejnr:
You should also pray to me because Jesus said to that "catholic" woman in the bible:

"More blessed are those....."

I am sure by now you know that scripture.

So therefore adore me and express your devotion to me like I saw one of your fellows do to Mary.

I would pray to you if I were sure you were a Christian, but I don't think you are.

Jeromejnr:
Nooo! you didnt say anything here na.

You asked that guy to show you scripture where they said don't pray to Mary.
And I said show us where it said don't pray to Satan.

It's all about common sense.

The bible tells me that satan is my adversary...so I don't pray to him.

Moreover, I'm not the one who believes that everything in Christianity must be explicitly stated in the bible, that's you and your like. So you have no business asking me that.

Jeromejnr:
You try so hard to turn the scriptures to your favor.

So part of the tradition they passed down is praying to Mary? I have not still seen your proofs O.

Because even the Traditions you talked about by speech was still based on the scriptures.

Okay, lets go to traditions actually passed down. Men Like Josephus, Clement, and some disciples of John e.t.c wrote down what they were taught from the Apostles.

I have gone through some of them and no where do any of them say Pray to the saints.

I am still waiting for your proofs o. And what Mary has done for you.

So lets think logically here now:

If God said when Husband and Wife are in strife that even if they pray He wont hear. He also said it to the unforgiven person" So if that same person turns to Mary,Is it Mary that will now hear? And If she hears what will she do.

Now again, With the millions of Catholics on the earth today all praying at the same time to Mary who is in heaven trying to enjoy her Mansion, How will she handle all those billions of prayers Is she Omniscient?

Does she have the complex mind and ability that God has to exist in all places at once and do a million things at once? You know sometimes, all people need to do is think.

You remind me of your brother up there that said killing an ant is a sin. So that means Jesus committed sin by killing a fish to eat. SMH.

1. I didn't turn anything. I gave you the verse as St. Paul wrote it. Or you don't believe the Bible anymore?

2. Here are some Church Fathers who spoke about Marian intercession:


"For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180).

"Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed." Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century).

"Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected.... Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin's body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest." Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378).

"Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground." Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

"For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight." Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380).

3. Marian intercession is directed to and subject to God.

4. Mary can handle all the prayers because she is now like God, as the Bible says.

5. Can you now admit that the Bible never said Saints in heaven can't hear prayers? Or show me where it says so.

Eintelekt:
When you set out to make fun of something you clearly know nothing about and end up making fun of yourself.
Lmao!!
Kudos to Italo and co, much respect!!

Thank you.

Scholar8200:
Neither can you show us were the idea/practise was either encouraged or practised! Are you not adding to the Word then? Why? Nobody on earth ever implored Abraham, Moses, Enoch, Daniel,David,Mary, James (first to be martyred among the apostles), Stephen etc to intercede for them! In the prayers of Nehemiah (Nehemiah 1) and Daniel (Daniel 9) there is no resorting to Moses or Abraham to intercede for them! Meanwhile, you ascribe the High Priestly role of Jesus to another mortal! That is idolatry!!

How did you conclude the bold? What proof do you have of that assertion?

Where did Jesus tell you that anybody asking a saint to pray to Jesus the High Priest is assigning the role of High Priest to the saint...and that it is idolatry?

Did the bible say these things or they are your own man-made doctrines?

Jeromejnr:
You also show us scripture where it says we should not pray to the devil.

And tell us why you don't pray to him.

What has light got to do with darkness...

Resist the devil...

Satan is the father of lies...

...and many more.

It seems you no longer believe in Bible alone...

Hehehe...

Jeromejnr:
Mehn! see as you just misconstrued the Word of God.

Try reading all that verse in context "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" 2 Thess 2:15. Traditions on the epistle and Word not catholic man made traditions.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!" Gal
1:8.

So my broda the Bible did not say go outside scriptures it said stick to the scriptures. In fact it even warns you.

And also that those guys just made heaven:

1. The robes given to them.
2. It was chaos on earth and they were told to rest a little till the remaining come to join them.

It common sense.

BTW, that scripture has nothing to do with praying to saints.

New International Version
So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

New Living Translation
With all these things in mind, dear brothers and sisters, stand firm and keep a strong grip on the teaching we passed on to you both in person and by letter.

English Standard Version
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter

The traditions taught by word of mouth are also to be followed. Gal1:8 even buttresses my point as not all that the apostles preached was recorded in the Bible.

Now show me where the Bible said Christians should not go outside the Bible.

The bible never said the martyrs had just arrived. Stop trying to force it.

You still can't show me where the Bible says people in heaven cannot hear prayers...or that anything not written verbatim in the Bible is false.

Scholar8200:
Pls we are talking about asking a departed soul to intercede on our behalf; this is wrong and lacks any Scriptural basis whatsoever!

Only you can never show us where the Bible said it is wrong to ask them to intercede for us.

Jeromejnr:
Stop being silly and embrace wisdom.

When God said He will wipe away all tears from their eyes where will that happen. On earth or in heaven? You just got to heaven in the presence of God, you've not even received your robes during the tribulation and there is a whole lot of activity going on there. Will you be blind to it and not know what is going on. won't the saints be prepared to ride with Christ on their horses back to earth for the Millennial Reign?

The bold is your own man-made doctrine. Show me where the Bible said they just arrived heaven.

What is clear is that they were saints in heaven and they knew the happenings on earth.

Jeromejnr:
And you just said you Catholics go outside scriptures, can you see where your error greatly lies. In Doctrines of men.

In 2Thess2:15, St. Paul asks Christians to hold fast to traditions handed down by letter (Sacred Scripture) and by word of mouth (Sacred Tradition). So even the Bible tells us to go outside the Bible.

Now can you show us where the Bible said Christian must not go outside the Bible? Hehehe.

Jeromejnr:
Why can't you just stick to scriptures. You see you guys don't even have proof of what you believe in. SMH.

But I have given you proof of people in heaven who know about the happenings on earth.

While you can't show me where the Bible says people in heaven cannot hear prayers...or that anything not written verbatim in the Bible is false...or that Christians should never go outside the bible.

dmandy:
I did? Why lie? I never said its for unbelievers. I rather equated it to what you called 'good part of hell' where spirits who still needs cleansing are cleansed by Jesus. Below is your post about the good part of hell.

Don't be alarmed.

The usually start to tell blatant lies when their falsehood is exposed.

It's just one of their many tricks.

Watch out for more.

Jeromejnr:
Okay Sir,

Actually, you guys should first of all provide scriptures for praying to saints then we can start from there.

If you even want to talk of those Martyrs, then there is a diff BTW praying to them and them Crying out in that scripture. Did they say anyone was praying to them that's why they were crying out.

That was a one time event. You mean to tell me that instead of enjoying the glories of heaven that right now they are busy crying. And look at verse eleven of that scripture.

What does that tell you. They are the souls that where recently beheaded in the tribulation and just made heaven that was why white robes were given to them.

Or have they been in heaven all this time and were naked?.

I'm confused. But you said no believers in heaven can know the happenings on earth.

Were these martyrs in heaven unbelievers?



To answer your question: I don't know when they got to heaven. You're the one who told me they had just got to heaven.

Jeromejnr:
Your broda up there told me.
And show us where purgatory is in the bible.

Quote where he said purgatory is for unbelievers.

And we Catholics don't believe that every word used in Christianity must be explicitly written in the Bible.

It is you who believes that that is finding it hard defending your proclamations with the Bible.

E.g: where does the Bible say that people in heaven are unaware of happenings on earth?

Where does the Bible say that purgatory must be written verbatim in the bible for it to be true?

Jeromejnr:
Don't understand the question.

But you need to understand Christianity is of the heart. Even if one mistakenly commits a sin that person cannot be condemned or pronounced guilty. Because God sees your heart that you ate making effort stop practising that sin.

But if you willingly go on sining after the knowledge of the truth like the apostle says then when that person dies in that sin, it's obvious the person loved the sin more than he did God. And as a result Jesus said "many will say unto me that day Lord, Lord...." Those where Christians not unbleleivers.

So if there was a purgatory and they can see the spritual realm and the hell That awaits them if they are not cleansed. Why don't they just believe and get cleansed. why will there still be some that Jesus will still say depart from Me on that day?

Or are people that stubborn that after seeing hell they will still want to go in there.

Thinking logically now.

Who told you purgatory is for unbelievers?

Jeromejnr:
They don't hear. Only God does.

Heaven is a perfect place, no believer in heaven is permitted to know of sufferings and heartaches and pains that go on in the earth.

Jeromejnr:
The saints in heaven will on the last day come to know happenings on the earth (that's when Jesus comes back).

So suddenly, you're making a U-turn...

Some hours ago, no believer in heaven could be permitted to know happenings on earth...because heaven is a perfect place.

Now, saints in heaven can know happenings on earth...i guess heaven is no more perfect abi?

Jeromejnr:
Haha.

1. That scripture is deeper than you tink. Remember how God told Cain that his brothers blood was crying from the ground? Ponder on that. (Go through that scripture you would see they even talked of their blood).

2. We see the story of a woman with a child and a dragon (Rev 12). Now if I were to ask you you would obviously say it was Mary and the child was Jesus. (True.) But if you noticed that event came after the Seventh and final Trumpet.

So what is my point?

Because the Martyrs were seen in Rev 6 crying out vengeance doesn't mean that's what is going on In heaven right now. The saints in heaven will on the last day come to know happenings on the earth (that's when Jesus comes back). Because they will all be judged and giving rewards and also receive their new bodies. And then in turn those appointed will help in judging angels and the dead both from hell and those who were Still alive on earth at that time. (These are all in scriptures and not far fetched). Do your own studies and don't let any man deceive you with religion.

But for now, don't waste you time praying to any saint.

You didn't answer my question.

Where are those people in Rev 6:10?

And please, for anything you say, show me where the Bible says it.

OLAADEGBU:
Can Mary hear our prayers? Can Mary or any of the dead saints hear our prayers?

Below is your own quote in the other thread:

Each person will have feelings, thoughts, and abilities that exist in eternity.

In fact, Luke 16:19–31 offers an example of human capabilities in the afterlife. Lazarus is in paradise in eternal joy, while the rich man is in torment in hell (called "Hades" ). The rich man has feelings, can talk, and has the ability to remember, think, and reason.

I also gave Rev 6:10 where people are aware of what is happening on earth...

Yet you want Jesus to come to earth again and tell you that Saints are aware of and can hear our prayers on earth...

@Jeromejnr,

The people in Rev 6:10 who knew that God hadn't avenged their blood on the inhabitants of the earth...

Were they also in your 'Abraham's bossom' or 'prison' or 'paradise' which you said has vanished?

Or were they in heaven, in which you said people are unaware of happenings on earth?

Or were they in another place that you are yet to manufacture?

dmandy:
If truly the dead know nothing, where did Jesus go after death? Certainly not heaven (because he will later resurrect and ascend to heaven to be with God) and not hell (lake of fire!!! because that is eternal damnation no saving). Who did He set free? (bible told us they were dead abi)...ok And The rich man of Luke 16 was dead and talking. Just don't get it. Why take a particular verse of the bible... read it out of context and then write a longer-than-Nile epistle out of it.

Thanks Italo, may your wisdom source net get dry.

Amen.

...And Moses and Elijah that spoke to Jesus at the transfiguration...long after they had died...

They were just blabbing about what they didn't know...

...and the people in Rev 6:10 who cried out “How long will it be, holy and true master,* before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?”

Those are the dead that don't know anything o...

Hehehe...

So the dead know things afterall...

Do these "dead" include Mary, Peter, Paul etc?

Hehehe...

johnydon22:
italo i think your desperation have taken you off balance... You are asking an atheist that the wafer and 12apostles mass wine really turn into blood and flesh..

Everybody reading this will surely know that you have gone deranged because only One word for that claim is "Delusion" Chronic "Delusion"
Quote me on that anywhere, That you are too childish and gullible enough to swallow the stories of wafers turning into flesh is in no way my problem.

lol...

I see how you dodged the bulk of my post exposing how Plato didn't justify his claims...and how that makes it way off today's Science standard. Infact, today, scientists would call it bogus claims or 'guess' at best.

I see how you cannot show me anywhere in the book - Timaeus where Plato justified or proved his claim.

Typical Atheist who thinks that a good logical argument is made by shouting many insults at the opponent, while avoiding the issue at hand.

If the Eucharist is delusion, then Plato and Aristotle's works were also delusion.

They didn't use the standard scientific method in use today, which was invented by the Catholic Church.

shalomm:
see your life? the soviet union that was dissolved in 1992 or which one?

You need to think before you talk. Are we contesting the dissolution date of the Soviet Union?

I mentioned the Soviet Union as an example of State Atheism bring death and destruction on an unprecedented scale.

shalomm:
Most of them never knew that communism started from the bible....

I have never had that a Russian man is seeking to migrate from Russia because he can't practice Christianity.

Read then about how the Soviets killed millions of Christians to promote State Atheism.

Just Google it.

johnydon22:
[b]Hahahahaha and now you fall on this shabby defence?

Exactly the same way msgr Georges postulated the Big Bang, the same way Larmarck instigated evolutionary trend... Simply through OBSERVATIONS.

But again let me break it down to your level as to further reveal more of you shabby and desperate defence..

Notable greek philosophers who inferred the spherical earth are..

1)Plato: His works on the spherical earth analogy are well recorded in his book Timaeus..

2)Aristotle: Aristotle (384–322 BC) was Plato's prize student and "the mind of the
school". [18] Aristotle observed "there are stars seen in Egypt and [...] Cyprus
which are not seen in the northerly regions." Since this could only happen on a
curved surface, he too believed Earth was a sphere "of no great size, for
otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly
apparent."..

You see Aristotle's conclusion was based on his usage of the scientific method of OBSERVATION of star constellations.... His works are also recorded in his book meteorology ..

You want argue more on it? [/b]

Plato (427–347 BC) travelled to southern Italy to study Pythagorean mathematics. When he returned to Athens and established his school, Plato also taught his students that Earth was a sphere though he offered no justifications. "My conviction is that the earth is a round body in the centre of the heavens, and therefore has no need of air or of any similar force to be a support".[15] If man could soar high above the clouds, Earth would resemble "one of those balls which have leather coverings in twelve pieces, and is decked with various colours, of which the colours used by painters on earth are in a manner samples."[16] In Timaeus, his one work that was available throughout the Middle Ages in Latin, we read that the Creator "made the world in the form of a globe, round as from a lathe, having its extremes in every direction equidistant from the centre, the most perfect and the most like itself of all figures",[17] though the word "world" here refers to the heavens.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth

See the bold. That is my point. He said the earth was a sphere without proving or justifying it. Also I have scanned the entire book - Timaeus. Nowhere does it describe anything resembling a scientific process by which Plato came to conclude that the earth was spherical.

That is not Science as we know and practise it today. If it were so, the declarations of the Church and Bible authors would be scientific evidence of God's existence. That is 'science' by authority...that is no science in today's world.

The Catholic Church practically invented Science in the modern sense of the word...which mainly refers to the Scientific method that Friar Roger Bacon advanced at the behest of the Pope. Here are compulsory ingredients of the scientific method below:

"Roger Bacon was inspired by the writings of Grosseteste. In his account of a method, Bacon described a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the way he had conducted his experiments in precise detail, perhaps with the idea that others could reproduce and independently test his results."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_scientific_method

Now, one question for you and your like which I expect you to dodge: cc adsonstone, freecocoa, herald9,

Cc winner01 pls watch.

The Catholic Church has said that the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ and has said it has observed many eucharistic occurrences affirming this.

Does that declaration make it a scientific fact?

johnydon22:
Hahahahahahaha you are lying italo, what you implied; aristocratic philosophers thought the earth was flat was exactly what you meant... because you even advanced more to ask me more questions on Hellenistic spherical earth which sounded quite new to you...

Don't lie now, you can simply agree to the fact and change grounds without having to lie to cover your as$. that is "science" knowledge improves when new facts are uncovered..

You're free to think what makes you feel like you can get away with your misconception. I doesn't matter.

I meant to say 'the Science Aristotle used to show the earth was the Centre of the universe.'

And I would also like you to explain how he used the present day scientific model to derive that.

johnydon22:
Obviously a Constitutional Bill just like Gay bill... I am not supposed to teach you government too

The bill promoted an Atheistic agenda. Yes or no?

adsonstone:
See this shameless liar ooo;
You no dey ever tire?


"Aristotle accepted the spherical shape of the Earth on empirical grounds around 330 BC, and knowledge of the spherical Earth gradually began to spread beyond the Hellenistic world from then on."

"Around 330 BC, Aristotle maintained on the basis of physical theory and observational evidence that the Earth was spherical, and reported on an estimate on the circumference."

- Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

...and you're somewhere there
, posting ignorantly and lying on Aristotle that he discovered that the earth was flat--without proof when history clearly says he accepted and maintained the idea of a spherical earth---based on observational evidence.

Forgive me. I meant to say "not the science that Aristotle used to prove that the earth was the Centre of the universe."

Now you can answer to the post.

PAGAN9JA:
and sanction ed by the pope!

Prove it.

adsonstone:
It is hypocrisy when you say the roman catholic church does/has done good and evil...and you list the good and refuse to list some of the numerous evil....and even claiming to be tired to list them only for you to return in less than 12 hours with other epistles of good.

No. That is not hypocrisy. I'm perfectly free to choose to list only the good things to you...just like you're free to refuse to list any deeper life deed to me, even after implying they do good. You need to check the dictionary. It's free on google.

adsonstone:
It is a lie when you allege that I'm trying to take the glory for another person's work.

No, it's not a lie. You said those things were done by all denominations (correct me if I'm wrong). How can protestants establish universities that existed before Protestantism? How could protestants have established Easter and Christmas and the Gregorian Calendar that was named after Pope Gregory? How could protestants have preserved literacy by studying in monasteries that they didn't have in an era that they didn't exist?

adsonstone:
It is a lie when you say that the catholic church 'invented' science.

No, it isnt. Because Science, in the modern sense of the word refers to the Scientific method in use today, not the ancient 'science' with with Aristotle discovered that the earth was the center of the universe?

In that sense, the Catholic Church practically invented science though Roger Bacon who put together the Scientific method at the Behest of the Pope.

adsonstone:
It is a lie when you say Bacon 'invented' scientific methods when history has it that;
"Several scientific methods thus emerged from
the medieval Muslim world by the early 11th
century, all of which emphasized experimentation
as well as quantification to varying degrees."

- Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/
History_of_scientific_method

Infact, scientific methods/science has been around for over 1500years BC.

You're deliberately lying when you say I said Bacon invented "scientific methods" when we both know I said he invented "the scientific method" and qualified it by saying it is the method currently in use today.

In today's science, quantification and experimentation are not enough. The same page you quoted give great detail of what Bacon invented that your ancients didn't practise. Read below:

Roger Bacon was inspired by the writings of Grosseteste. In his account of a method, Bacon described a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the way he had conducted his experiments in precise detail, perhaps with the idea that others could reproduce and independently test his results.

adsonstone:
It is hypocrisy when you describe the work of priests who are scientists as 'the work of the roman Catholic church.' I wonder when a good individual work becomes the work of catholicism while evil works of priests remain their individual work.

Priests who are scientists...Who are inspired by the support of the Catholic Church for the sciences...many of who learnt and worked in Catholic science institutions designed to pursue science aggressively...some of whose works and research were directly sponsored by the Church...many of whom dedicated their greatest works to the Church, Pope etc...

Yes...I must give the Church credit for these works.

If you show me a priest who was inspired and encouraged by the Church to do bad and I will call his evil an evil of the Church.

You haven't mentioned such a priest so there is no hypocrisy.

adsonstone:
It is hypocrisy and self deceit when you refuse to claim that catholicism is christianity yet fail to prove that Kepler and Boyle were roman catholics.

I don't understand this one. Please explain or rephrase.

adsonstone:
It is hypocrisy and self deceit to claim that catholicism is christianity and post that;

"According to 100 Years of Nobel Prize (2005), a
review of Nobel prizes awarded between 1901 and 2000, 65.4% of Nobel Prize Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference (423 prizes).[84] Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace,[85] 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics,[85] 62% in Medicine,[85] 54% in Economics[85] and 49.5% of all Literature awards.[85]"

Yet, you fail to prove that those 'Christians' were roman catholics.

No, it is not. I repeat: strictly speaking, Catholicism is Christianity and Christianity is Catholicism.

The piece above was not my write-up. It was part of a wiki article to show how Christianity influenced civilization. The authors mixed non-Catholics because they were looking at Christianity in a very liberal sense. However, the vast majority of the entire page referred to specifically Catholic deeds...as I have proved by analyzing the article in detail...but you did not like to see it.

So I don't have to prove that all the people in the page are Catholics. They don't have to be.

johnydon22:
Remains a political agenda boy. . . Anything constitutional is governmental and political, deal with it

It was an Atheistic agenda...yes or no?

Jonathan:

Ad hominem.

No answer to the argument...insult the person.

johnydon22:
Let me repost the same answer again, seeing that you have asserted ancient greek thought the world was flat, lets me thrash it out once and for all.
"The concept of a spherical Earth dates back to around the 6th century BC,
when it was mentioned in ancient Greek philosophy, but remained a matter
of philosophical speculation [size=16] until the 3rd century BC, when Hellenistic astronomy established the spherical shape of the earth as a physical given.[/size]
" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth
Lets hope you also know hellenistic refers to greek....Further shows you philosophy is birth parent of science..
Now choose the ignorant one between us

.

How did Hellenistic astronomy "establish" that the earth was spherical?

What was the process? Was it recorded? Can you demonstrate that the process was reproducable by any random scientist at the time

These are all compulsory ingredients of Science (the Scientific method) today.

Or did one or two Greek astronomers just say that they have "established" that the earth was spherical? And people accepted it because they were astronomers?

marcondo13:
I laugh in Swahilli when I read that syphilitic Adolf Hitler was excommunicated by the Catholic Church! Pope Pius get that liver to do am. Maybe, you have forgotten about the Concordat of Rome which was signed with Mussolini which ceded lands that comprises the Vatican today in exchange for State control of the schools and other rights! If the Catholic Church tried that bullshit on Hitler, the consequence would have been catastrophic. The
Church signed the Reichskonkordat with Hitler and they never protested when the Jews were maltreated. They complained when the rights of Catholics were trampled on, leading to protest from the Church,included in the 1937 Mit brennender Sorge encyclical of Pope Pius XI. Hitler was backed to the end by the Black pope, Vladimir Lechochowski, the superior general of the Jesuit order!
The Vatican was the last State to break ties with Nazism. Try to read Hitler's book, Mein Kampf and Understand the ideology behind Nazism, if it was not Catholic in essence! I am not a Catholic basher but I dislike religious supremacists!
Stop turning history on its head!

before you come with more lies, why don't you clear the previous ones:

You said the Church voted by plus one that black had souls in a Church council.

I said tell us which council? You haven't answered.

You said defaulting Popes' fingers are cut off in a secret conclave. I said prove it. No answer.

You said a Church council with only one literate person struck out the Apocrypha.

I said mention the council. No answer.

Do you feel any remorse or shame for telling such big lies against a Church that is not harming you?