₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Zahra29 post=130729259]

Lol, we can all agree that it was a very relaxed route, yes?

It was a route that highlighted the shortsightedness of Brexit and the desperation of the UK government to seek oversees labour to fill gaps rather than let wages rise and the govt/populace pay up as they had promised voters

And this is in part because to the answer to your first question;
1. Yes the UK needs immigrants. Every country does to an extent, even Nigeria to replace the vast numbers of professionals leaving the country.

Where we tend to disagree is that every country has the sovereign right to determine if and how many immigrants it wants to allow in. Even if they have a declining native birth rate, it's still their decision. You can't force them to open their borders more than they want to in order to accommodate migrants (not refugees) who want to come in.

Perhaps you're mistaken. I've never questioned that 'right'. What I've done is discuss immigration policies, drivers and resultant effects. Nigeria adds over 4 million people yearly. Without immigration, the UK populace would be in decline. What Nigeria mainly needs is to upskill its populace

2. It's very difficult to estimate. I don't think any country has managed to pin it down to an exact number. What most countries do is open the tap when they need immigrant workforce and then close it when they've had enough.

You should also realise that skilled workers (which is the main group of immigrants referenced on this thread) represent only a fraction of UK immigrants. There is a significant number of immigrants on the family route, for example the spouses of British citizens, who also plug labour shortages and on average pay even more to the government in visa fees - also without any recourse to public funds.

Statistics doesn't work that way. Just like with life expectancy e.t.c trends can be followed. The US has a cap on certain visas, canada last year outlined how many PRs they hope to issue per year till 2026.
What I had expected the UK govt to do is to institute an independent advisory panel that advises what estimated net migration numbers are needed by the economy to keep afloat and where these numbers are mostly needed and what percentage should be for work visas. This should be done protectively taking lots of economic variables into account. Parties can then campaign based of that. If we had such in place, it'd have been obvious that the net migration from the EU wasn't horrendous. It'd have been obvious that the care industry would struggle post-Brexit.
I'd say 300k - 500k net are needed yearly. Govt officials know this but are too timid to relay this to voters

Zahra29:
Try to read before commenting.

Generous was used in the context that the care visa route was very relaxed and had low barriers of entry compared to other work visa or family routes.

Lol... Zahra.. I agree see it's been a true demonstration of British benevolence.

Stop the back and forth and let me ask.

1. Does the UK need immigrants?
2. If yes, given current realities, what number of immigrants do you estimate the UK needs annually to maintain a stable economy?

LionInZion:
On student visa, the record is there for everyone to see that the highest student to dependent ratio was 5:1. Yet this time last year, many folks including those in the media, who should know better, went about it as if student dependents have taken over the whole of the country and were the cause of all infrastructural and economic problems facing the country. Then it's all about narrative and agenda.

It's very difficult to change a narrative once the media has latched unto it. Look at Rishi. How was the IHS fee introduced? If I'm not mistaken, someone on a visiting visa gave birth in an NHS hospital and left. The narrative was so driven that those on work visas were now made to pay an extra levy including those working in the NHS until the covid experience challenged the folly.

A part of me wanted them to go on and end the psw visa as had been suggested but for new entrants only. So when reality hits in a few years, it's back to chasing tails and they can learn once more that for many, a british masters cert is only worth the migration advantage it offers.

LionInZion:
... I'll resist the urge to go into the argument on whether that route was based on generosity or not, because that's another subjective point that can be open to multiple interpretations.

Lol... I no even see that one. Generosity indeed. Reminds me of a white Southafrican I met who described how the apartheid regime were 'generous' in handing over power to Mandela in 94. Perhaps he was comparing their 'benevolence' to what the relatives of his forebearers did to indigenous populations in the U.S or Aus.

As entitled and ignorant as that word sounds, a fair portion of the populace still thinks same. Its why as a country, were yet to get past the first question i.e do we need immigrants ?

IridescentAge:
I don't think that's it at all.

There are just different groups of people in the UK.

There's a decent size group of people who would just prefer net zero migration and for the UK to be like Japan.

And there's a decent size group of people who don't mind or they're business owners looking for talent and workers or they're the chancellor trying to fix growth numbers.

Neither group is inherently right but it leads to an incoherent set of policies.

I agree with you. There's lots of incoherence in their legal migration policy which gives room for certain folks to case aspersions against anyone who is brown or black. For decades, every PM has let in more migrants than the last despite promising to cut migration and far exceeded thrir own migration target. It's very clear than those in power and their economic advisors know the facts but they have been timid in relaying this to the public.

Two questions the general populace are still grappling with are:
1. Does the UK need immigrants. Keyword: need
2. If yes to Q.1, what number of immigrants does the UK need yearly and how should this number be aloocated to different sectors.

The US and Canada have gone past the first question and now dealing with the second. The US has a fixed number of certain work visas they issue - employers have to jostle for this. Canada has already outlined how many PRs it'd take in for the next few years. They're now looking to finetune entrants via other pathways. The UK populace OTOH is still stuck on the first.

Vinnie2000:
A statue is just a Representative of a Great Personality.
To remind us of the Person's Great Deeds.

In foreign countries, There are Statues of Van Damme, Sylvester Stallone, Thierry Henry, etc.

It Does NOT mean such statues should be reverted or worshipped.

In Catholic church, It is Same. Statues are NOT be worshipped.

Just to remind us of Christ.

In that case, have you seen a statue of a Black Jesus in Nigeria?

His sculptures depict another evidence of neo-colonialism. Ask him where his forebears who lived before the coming of European colonialists are and he'd likely say they are in hell just like a number of religious Nigerians today believe.

Nothing has more dehumanised Africa like seeing the image of God is another race.

I've come to see that for every world power or empire in times past, their perception of God wasnt dissimilar from them. Even the British had to create the Anglican church

Jamesclooney:
Thanks, Senior man.
The Lord bought it for us with divine grace and heavenly favour/open doors

I’m a simple man, sometimes I think back to my story, I just weak. I remember colleagues pitying me when I took the leap of faith to relocate a few years ago. “Why leave a well paying Naija salary?” “Why not Canada instead of Uk?” “So what will you do for money?” Etc.

God has answered all those questions for us🙏🏾

The UK has proven itself a land of opportunity for many (myself included). Just that they still think they're still in the empire days and hence drive certain narratives. Also there are quite a number of bottlenecks that stiffle growth opportunities for immigrants. But overall, not many complaints. I don take am as my country.

Congrats once more

MayCar:
They said it doesn’t satisfy their AML policies and yes they are all based in the Uk

Hmm.. might be worth asking them what it'd take to satisfy AML. A letter from each of them stating the reason?

I wonder if a different solicitor might see things differently. Perhaps others could throw share views.
Reason why I've not been a fan of 'adashe' in the UK. There are good saving options where you could even earn interest.

ReesheesuKnack:
A 47 year old Mr’s A gets a CoS of sponsorship to be a Care worker in the UK (£22,000 pa max).
Mrs A has 5 children and 1 husband. The oldest child in SS1, the youngest in primary 2. Mrs A travels to the UK to work (as Care worker on a 22k salary). Mrs A does not pay IHS. Even Mrs A’s visa application fee is massively discounted.

I wonder why you stopped at 5 kids. Why not 10, 15 or 20 since we're driving dubious narratives. After all, Nigel the other day insinuated students come with their parents, grandparents, children and even cousins as 'dependents'

You should start by looking at how many student or care visas were issued and how many dependent visas were also issued. Work out the average and take things from there.

lavida001:
In a way the highly skilled worker they meant are our politicians that brings stolen funds into their economy to buy mansions and pay for their kids tuition from crèche to university.

Hehe. They'd still moan when foreign based folks buy houses for themselves or kids in the UK. It appears the aim is to have a constant stream of migrants arrive at Heathrow, turn over £50k to the UK government and return home. Even with that, they'd still complain about overcrowding the airport. They should borrow a leaf from Japan and own their problems.


A question I often encounter is - are you thinking of going back? It's easy to guage where this is coming from. My response is usually in the line of: 'I'm considering options outside the UK where pay and work-life balance is better. However if I leave, as a Brit, UK would be a potential option for retirement as an increasing number of relatives are coming over'. You need to see how red face dey get. Like say I be cheating spouse ‐ folks dont want you to come, folks don't want you to go.

I once asked one when all the British migrants who went to Australia, U.S and S.A to displace native populations are returning home. UK needs their skill afterall.

Another is the cliché common in certain nations- 'we need high skilled immigrants not Bleep'.
The entitlement with which its said leaves me wondering. Like immigrants are groceries on a shelf to select and pick from as need be. Who then retains the 'bad fruit'? Odd thing is that many nations brand themselves this way which manytimes flies in the face of what the do.

An economy needs the skills it lacks - be it in care, teaching, nursing, IT, masonry, drivers e.t.c
I dont know of any nation that can easily absorb 1000 brain surgeons or astronauts.

P.S. this is not saying a nation should not target the skill they need but blaming poor economic outcomes on the 'quality' of immigrants they take reeks of an absurd entitlement and classism.

Thinking about expat issue, I remember a while back one of the drivers at a site I work detailing what his relatives who are expats in a Spain were upto. Chap kept emphasising the expat word until I asked: 'by expat, do you mean immigrant'? Long talk ensued.

Not long ago, I stumbled upon this thread on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/s/v2xLYbqYMi ) and it became clear that 'an expat' is the packaged name for migrants from few select nations. Should be an interesting chat with the next 'expat' I meet

lavida001:
Japan in trouble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LklSTNozWuE

Interesting. Racking up endless debt to prop up the economy was likely to result in conundrums especially if not backed by fundamentals. I'm not holding my breath though, Japan had a way of edging through certain issues in the past hence being the pioneers of 'unconventional economics'. This seems dire.

What's aso interesting is the rapid rise of China's automobile industry. So quick that the U.S and EU had to quickly introduce tarrifs to slow them. Even in the UK, the MG brand has quickly cornered most of the EV market and I gather their cars are quite good.

Jamesclooney:
Testimony time

(Ushers please be on standby with the offering basket )

The Lord built (bought) us a house!!!!

Congrats... more blessings.

BTW, in what currency did the Lord buy the house?

MayCar:
Hello, please I need an advice, on the process of getting a property and having issues with the solicitors, as they are raising issues about the monthly contributions that came into the account, they are not ok with explanation, if anyone has been in this kind of situation please advise on what you did. Thanks in advance

More details are needed. Did they state what their concerns are or why they are not ok with it? That way, you know what to address.

Also are all other folks contributing also in the UK?

Teenuh:
Thank you @Jedisco. When I see houses with low EPC, I always think it will take a lot of money to get them to like B or A

It depends but many times, it does add up to a good sum esp if it needs added or a new insulation. Also you need to factor in higher heating costs.
Stumbled across someone recently who was selling his beautiful 4 bed detached older house to get a 3 bed new build partly cos they wanted to downsize but more so for the heating costs. Some older houses are hardwork to heat.

Teenuh:
Hi Everyone,

Lately I have been looking on Rightmove for houses on sale and I have some questions to ask. I would appreciate if anyone with experience can enlighten me on them;

1. What does it mean when there is a 'Guide price' attached to the price of a House? or 'Offers in region of'
2. Is it okay to purchase a house with low EPC? What is the lowest a buyer can go for? Is there any cost effective way to make said house energy efficient?

All suggestions and advises are welcomed.

Thank you

As far as its not an auction house, all the wording mean what the seller is expecting. You then bid as what you think is reasonable.

2. You canncheck what the EPC certificate for a house online. It should also include what could be done to improve the rating and what the rating is estimated to improve by if those things are done. Depending on what the drivers of the low rating are, some things e.g bulbs may be easy to fix. I personally would be targeting a B and not go below a C

mamatwiny:
I want to say a big thank you to all the contributors in this thread... You guys are the best.

1. I stand to be corrected but I am unsure if many lenders would consider you on a graduate visa. The few I know would prefer a work visa with a pathway to longterm stay. They generally want a 'reasonable' period left on your visa though in a I've seen some people secure mortgages with very few months left. The limitations of the care visa is the low pay. Lenders would base what the lend on your stated pay. They many times would not consider locums or extras (esp if paid via a seperate payroll number) except you've been shown to do them regularly for a good period. Lastly, most lenders would limit what they'd lend to 4.5x (sometimes 5x) your pay. This is asides LTV criteria where they'd likely insist on you providing at least 10-15%.

2. I don't think they worry much whether you are single or married as far as you have the income to afford a mortgage. The advantage of being married is that the combined income is taken into consideration hence you can have a higher mortgage. But kids might affect affordability.

3. Its upto you to decide if you have the skillset to get a good deal and fix. Remember labour costs now are quite high and the discount had on many run donw houses might not correlate what you'd need to fix it.

4. I doubt you can buy your personal house in a companies name. Even if you do, you'd likely be unable to rent to yourself. If you're thinking about BTL,most lenders criteria entails you having your own house first.

Overall, I think it's worth having a free discussion with a mortgage advisor that has access to all of the market. They'd be able to assess your current income and advise what you can reasonably target for. In the interim using a LISA (if eligible) plus a cash ISA for saving could be a good option.

missjekyll:
Japan just released 3 immigration friendly visas. Did you know that? They ve accepted that to remain on the cutting edge,you need to let in the world.

I wouldn't advise it for any chocolate skinned person though.
I hear the racism is madt.

Hehe... I'm aware. Even the strongheads are feeling the heat. I gather some of their provincial officials are canvassing for a change and even visiting prospective nation looking for nurses and teachers. Let them not get folks in and then blane them for a predetermined decline. Everyone dey find 'high-skilled'. I wonder what exactly it means and where they'd source them from. Capitalism is a b**tch though.

missjekyll:
Lollllllllllll. Any takers yet?
Jedisco,this is the job for you.

'Expat', just like 'high-skilled' is another word that makes me shudder. The allowances are nice but pay is hardly attractive. Was on higher than that when I migrated to the UK years back. My target now is to be a 'British expat' in Canada as na expat gang dey reign.

Cyberknight:
Agreed. The over-reliance is baked into the system, however.
...
So the Tories decided to break the logjam by importing cheap labour. It is arguable that a better way to achieve a result might have been not to opt for increased immigration but instead to allow the NHS and the care system to collapse under the weight of understaffing so as to drive home the point to the public that its time to pay more tax to increase pay.

Lol... the implications.

That the visa fees and ILR which are used to pay civil servants salaries among others is the little part. Employers also pay huge fees to sponsor ( https://www.davidsonmorris.com/skilled-worker-visa-costs/ ). This is not taking into consideration the taxes and NI migrants eventually pay and the huge fat cheque they hand over to the government at ILR and citizenship application all without access to public funds or 30hr free childcare.

The main consideration is the huge savings on the economic and political cost of shortages that'd arise if migrants were not here. Care homes were offering £17ph and struggling to fill shifts 2- 3 yrs ago. Today, even at minimum wage, they're swamped. The cost of adult care is a huge financial burden for councils and the main reason many are facing bankruptcy.
The cost to the NHS when someone spends months in the hospital cos a package of care is being delayed due to shortage of carers. We're talking of thousands per day multiplied by months minus the ripple effect on A&E and delaying admissions as folks can't be discharged and ambulances held up outside unable to move on to the next emergency cos A&E is full.

This is outside the economic footfall of more working adults- mortgages, rents e.t.c.

Care has for decades relied silently on migration- Brexit only brought that to the fore. There is a reason the government has left the pathway open despite all the abuse. UKVI knows the number of COS they issue to the hour. The government does not need ONS figures to know.

missjekyll:
Sarcasm?

I'm not largely against the Japanese pattern. They stick to their guns and face the implications without moaning.

In Japan, house prices are less today than they were 30yrs ago. I.e for someone who took out a mortgage in the early 90's, after paying it up, that house is worth less today.

Unlike the UK that is getting fidgety over it's debt burden approaching 100% of GDP, Japan have since racked up debt with a debt burden that is 260% of their GDP.

While most other developed nations have seen good growth in a wealth measure (GDP per capita) over the last few decades, in Japan, its been stagnant and even trended downwards i.e folks not richer today on average than 30yrs ago despite a falling population.

Japanese wages have remained stagnant for decaded

Despite a tech giant with enviable industrial efficiency, many young folks still have to work long hours all in a bid to support the growing number of grey citizens.

The question becomes- which of the outcones above can the British populce stomach? Of course no two nations are thesame but it's when faced with such realities that PM after PM bites the bullet and turns to immigration- not out of want but need.

justwise:
I know the answer to that question...£3.3 billion

That is how much immigrants contributes to public finance annually. If they cut immigration, they cut their source of income.

So its either they cut immigration and increase taxes or they reduce taxes, get more immigrants in for cheap labour and finance social services.

Apt!

It's nkw widely sold that high immigration is the cause of pressure on public services, housing costs, poor wage growth, vehicular traffic, societal unrest e.t.c. Also it's been proven that a pro-immigration stance looses votes. Why then has no PM over the last 20 years effected this orgasmic link? Simply make people happy by reducing net migration to zero and at thesame time solve most of the issues bedeviling the society.. Everyone gets a cheap house, high wage etc. Infact take away migrants and everyone could be alloted a GP appointment per day.

Its becoming increasingly apparent that while a sensible immigration stance might be a vote looser, the alternatives are much worse.

justwise:
[/b]

Clearly you no well

He has taken from Trumps playbook, British first(Make America Great again), immigration(build the wall and Mexico will pay for it) and Muslims (Ban Muslims from coming to America)

This is the same dude that promised us millions for NHS if the UK leaves the EU, where is the money now?

Some ideological trends are difficult to reverse. Afterall, Hitler convinced Germans that jews were the cause of their problems. He and Boris by ensuring Brexit were huge blessings to the Nigerian community here. My small 9ja community balooned last year. We don get African shop join sef.

One thing I still dont get is why they have allowed immigration be a main issue at every election in recent memory when it's super easy to curb. Already, the birth rate is well below replacement rate plus with a good number of Brits ('expats' hehe) emigrating yearly, the population would naturally fall. On top of that, just end PSW visas for new entrants, a 20-30% levy on fees students coming over, end the care visa route and stop the NHS from employing oversees health workers and boom! Population drops, housing becomes cheap, stew everywhere! Japan is a shining example.

I wonder how every government over the last 20 years + have struggled to achieve what could be sorted in an afternoon. As I keep singing, the UK has never willfully chosen immigration. It's when looking down the loaded barrel of economic decline that they do- not out of want, but need.

This nonsense needs to stop. Commanders need to start getting dismissed when junior service men under their command engage in such. The exception should be if they were not aware but even at that, they should be reprimanded for poor command.

A 'drop' in inflation does not mean price of items would drop. It just means that prices are still rising but at a slower pace.

29.5% is huge and would keep pushing people into poverty. It's not something to celebrate

ayoolaremii746:
Am still available

ayoolaremii746:
Am available

Before you start assessing peoples coursework, you might want to note that 'am' is different from 'I'm' i.e (I am) and both are not used interchangeably.

Aaronsrod:
What is this one saying?

The God of Riches is the God of the Richest!

Only a fool will follow and worship a black god!

Its the effect of neo-colonialism. Over time, you've been shaped to associate God/Godly to the colour of another.

Always remember the main reasin you are a Christian is cos someone colonised your forefathers and forced religion upon them and you now believe that all your ancestors that existed before colonialism or others who dont follow what was forced on you are going to hell. Think through that and see how neo-colonialism makes you little

Ikumapkayi:
These are the people who pollute minds with their articles, making it seem as if God isn't answering prayers in Africa. You live in the UK—why not consider why the suicide rate is higher in the West compared to Nigeria and other African nations, despite the supposedly easier environment? Folks, let's continue to pray and ignore people like this individual who wants you to believe that prayer is a waste of time.

Why just pick suicide and not the overall premature death rate e.g by accidents, kidnapping, building collapse, preventable or fairly treatable illnesses, hunger e.t.c which are out top prayer points

Tokskob2008:
Both on the right and left side of the Ibadan expressway is filled up with churches and other various worship centres who bought several thousand plots of land just for the sake of building a place in other to swindle people and you begin to think what is really the problem with us as country

Just imagine if those place are factories for productions or even farmlands, I'm not sure the country would be so messed up the way it is right now. Truly government have their own fault but we the citizens too have a lot of faults too especially those who are rich enough to site an establishment to help the economy but chose to build big churches all round the country.

The annoying thing is how these super rich people talk down on everything Nigerian.
Quite commonly, they'd say, nigerian lawyers, engineers, doctors, lecturers e.t.c are bad. Hkw they cannot attemd a Nigerian hospital or drive a Nigerian made car e.t.c but someone Nigerian churches and pastors are the best. Quite comical.
We are a product of our society.

A good change would be to start mandating transparency and making it law for these churches/mosques to publish their and the government plays its role by emancipating the people from poverty

pansophist:
You saw where I wrote that the LLC doesn't have to be in the man's name right? How on earth will any court give the property of one to the other?

SO yes, if the LLC is under his name then it can be taken into consideration, not when it's in your mother's name, or dog name even.

Welcome to the West.
I own an LLC in the UK and know a few things about how they're run.

Do you really think divorce lawyers are paid so much if someone could just circumvent the whole process by doing such?

Take for example, can you after being one of the highest earners in the country, during divorce proceedings, stand infront of a judge and claim you wouldn't pay your fair share (i.e other peoples taxes should be used to look after your kids) or own nothing because your income was routed through a LLC in someones name? I said you, cos by this stage, your lawyer would have pulled out and left you to face the judge alone. This would be soo easy to sort. By the time the judge and opposing team are done, it would not only be 50%, it might even be 60% of your net worth taken, plus you'd have to pay your wife's legal fee then plus possible conviction for false representation and finally being handed over to the tax authorities where the true grilling starts.

Read up Ekweremmadus case and understand how their justice system works. No offence but it's quite clear you've not lived in a Western nation. Their laws and justice system are respected for a reason

Mindlog:
For 40 years he lived in Italy, he couldn't find a woman in Europe to marry,?

Hehe if true, then that should be the question.

Maybe Italian ladies or Nigerian in Italy were not 'submissive' enough hence he went in search of a village lady he can oppress. Reminds me of Sen. Ekweremmadus' ordeal

pansophist:
Not prenuptial agreement. There are ways one can secure their assets after divorce. The ''Hakimi route'' is one. The houses, cars assets, etc, you enjoy should be under a company name that belongs to a trusted family member (mother or adult child).

Have a business ATM card from the company and spend from there. Live lavishly as you want, but make sure all your spending, holiday trips, etc are declared as business expenses. Your salary should probably be the minimum wage, so like 100k naira. That's your real earnings and everything you have.

The assets that a court will share between spouses are personal assets. They can't give a company car to her, that's theft. So though you earn 100k, your lifestyle is of a wealthy individual. That is how lots of businessmen don't pay tax much.

For example, you pay more tax percentage-wise than Jeff Bezos, who is the wealthiest man in the world lol. So during divorce, it is from your 100k salary they will use to make any calculations. So in reality, you are broke

Since Women have learned to shoot without missing, men should learned to fly without perching.' Two can play this game

Hehe.
For one, the Hakimi has largely not been corroborated by any media house of repute. It's mainly blogs passing it across.
If it was that easy, billionaires with the best accountants in the world would not be having lots if their wealth taken duting a messy divorce. Most of those billionaires already have most of their wealth in companies/tax shelters but they still don't escape divorce settlement. If it was true, you'd expect the tax authorities to be up his a** very soon and potentially a prison sentence for tax evasion.

First, you have to be in a certain niche to earn your income as a ltd co. Even more, ltd co assets are regarded as marriage assets and hence split during a divorce.
Its similar to prenups. Those are not worth much in many western countries and if deemed unfairly written can even land one in trouble.

It's also worth remembering that the divorce rules in the West were not forced upon them. Its not like they were speaking one language and someone came and said Hey! You must speak my language. They willfully made such rules and ways to safeguard against abuse. Just like tax most ways the common man would think of getting around these laws have already been thought about 20yrs ago and provisions made against it. I am not saying there are not ways around certain things but its hardly ever that straightforward. What you should ask yourself is what led to western nations adopting this change?