₦airaland Forum

rvp2018:
Post apertheid there was growth - until 2010 - and it's been a mess since. I think it's structural middle class rut like you find in Latin America. Mauritus has escaped it and become Africa's only DEVELOPED Country.

You think it's Zuma cooling his heels in prison. I think it's deeper than that.

Ok so now we've only been in a rut for 10 years?

rvp2018:
Again, stop hunting, Kenya population is projected at 49.8m now. We did a census in 2019 - just 2 yrs ago - it was 47.5m.
https://www.imf.org/en/Countries/KEN


2021 Projected Real GDP (% Change) : 5.6
2021 Projected Consumer Prices (% Change): 6.0
Country Population: 49.801 million

Wow.....covid hit you hard ......$ 4million people just disappeared?

All jokes aside I think I'll stick with the population as stated by the WB

rvp2018:
South Africa is going to play around 300-400B - I dont know why you're excited - the commodities are up - next year - we shall see you back in 300B. The same with Nigeria - Oil prices if they drop - their GDP drops.

Nigeria is oil dependant - South Africa is middle class rut - it been there the last almost 20yrs.

Kenya is making sustainable move FORWARD.

yeah cool story bro

Also we've been in a middle class rut for 20 years yet the black middle class alone has literally increased 10 fold....YES 10 times bigger than in 1993

rvp2018:
But you've been running around with projected growth of 5 percent. IMF normally release projection in April and October. This was released a few days ago...while you were busy hunting for protein.

IMF World Economic Outlook - October 2021 Update

African Country nominal GDP top 15
Nigeria - $480 billion
South Africa - $415 billion
Egypt - $396 billion
Algeria - $163 billion
Morocco - $126 billion
Kenya - $109 billion
Ethiopia - $92 billion
Ghana - $75 billion
Angola - $70 billion
Tanzania - $69 billion
Cote d'Ivoire - $69 billion
DR Congo - $54 billion
Cameroon - $45 billion
Uganda - $43 billion
Tunisia - $43 billion

109/53.77 vs 75/31.07

That equals $2027 gdp per capita vs $2412 per capita

how does that equal 2200 vs 2400??

rvp2018:
Kenya doesnt have any minerals worth talking about.

IMF World Economic Outlook - October 2021 Update

African Country nominal GDP top 15
Nigeria - $480 billion
South Africa - $415 billion
Egypt - $396 billion
Algeria - $163 billion
Morocco - $126 billion
Kenya - $109 billion
Ethiopia - $92 billion
Ghana - $75 billion
Angola - $70 billion
Tanzania - $69 billion
Cote d'Ivoire - $69 billion
DR Congo - $54 billion
Cameroon - $45 billion
Uganda - $43 billion
Tunisia - $43 billion

What did you say our GDP was the other day? $301 billion So what has happened in fact is the gap between SA and Kenya has actually increased!!

RiceProducers:
Nigeria has Paveway II

Yes!! purchased with the Tucanos

rvp2018:
Boer, look like you had bad hunting day. Did your trusty arrow fail you? Of course those figures are from IMF. I clearly said by end of this year - 2021.

The 2021 figures haven't been released yet fool, hence it isn't from the IMF now is it?

Gichwawa254:
real hidden like those in UK n USA congrats that's why didn't see them most in Nairobi and Mombasa are overhead

Shot bru nice pics to.....Nairobi streets kind of remind me a bit of Pretoria with all the trees

rvp2018:
Nearly every country that has minerals like Ghana has got out poverty except in parts of Africa. Even countries with 1 million people do it even faster. Minerals give you the capital - for free - required to lift people out of poverty - by investing in people, infrastructure and their business.

Ghana GDP by end of this year will be 75b divided by 31M people (recent census). Kenya will be 109B against 50B - so it about 2400 versus 2200.

Please stop trying to suck GDP figures out of your thumb each time and simply take the figures as stated by the IMF or WB!!.........its getting old!!

iblawi:
I don't know why you guys are bringing up this argument again after several attempt of claiming technology that isn't yours.

Rooivalk and orxy are based on puma helicopter which you also agreed to. The engine and other critical components are also not your.

Same with several other technologies. Most of the components are also from Europe.

Hope we won't have this same argument again next year again.

Seems like you have difficulty reading also....nobody claimed the rooivalk and oryx aren't based of the Puma.....but that does not change the fact that Denel is the OEM for the Rooivalk and Oryx and still manufactures all the parts and spares....hence the argument of being susceptible to EU sanctions is nul and void.

kabe1:
And then there is the fact that the Rooivalk is very heavily dependent on French technology.

You're lying to yourself.

is Denel lying?

"Rooivalk Attack Helicopter (AH-2A) is a Denel product. Denel Aeronautics a subsidiary of the Denel is the Design Authority and Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM)."

http://www.denelaeronautics.co.za/products--services/rooivalk-oem

kabe1:
But – and this is a very important point – South Africa could not design and build a complete helicopter from scratch. The design, development and manufacture of the necessary powerplant and dynamics system (rotor head, main and tail rotors, and main and tail gearboxes) were beyond this country’s capabilities. Acquiring such capabilities would have been extremely time consuming and incredibly expensive, rendering the project totally impractical. So the new machine had to be based on an existing design, as far as its power plants and dynamics were concerned.

At the time, the SAAF operated two main helicopter types – the Aerospatiale (formerly Sud Aviation, now Eurocopter) Alouette III and the Aerospatiale Puma. The Alouette III could not possibly form the basis of a credible attack helicopter – it was not just that it was small, but its powerplant and dynamics system were 1960s technology, clearly outdated, and lacking in power. (An Alouette III powerplant and dynamics system were used as the basis for an engineering and development capability demonstrator for Atlas – now Denel – as a precursor to the Rooivalk programme; designated the Alpha XH-1, it first flew in 1984 and is today preserved at the SAAF Museum at[/b] Air Force Base Swartkops, Pretoria.)

Athough the Puma was larger and more powerful than the Alouette III, it had already been displaced on the French production line by its bigger and more powerful offspring, the Super Puma, which first flew in late 1978. This led to South Africa’s developing and successfully executing a project to produce a new helicopter that was a hybrid of the Puma and the Super Puma – the Denel Oryx. The Oryx has a fuselage that is longer than that of the Puma but shorter than that of the Super Puma, and was fitted with the powerplants, dynamics systems, and tail boom of the Super Puma (later, military versions of the Super Puma were redesignated Cougar).

The result was and is a helicopter with a greater payload and range capability than the Puma and a greater power-to-weight ratio than the Super Puma/Cougar. In consequence, the Oryx is an ideal transport helicopter for the hot temperatures and high altitudes frequently found in Southern Africa.

The Oryx was developed in parallel with the Rooivalk prototypes. Being simpler and cheaper than the Rooivalk, the Oryx programme was completed much more rapidly, the helicopter being unveiled in 1991, and has been the SAAF’s transport helicopter ever since. Thus it was proposed that the Super Puma powerplants and dynamics systems, being made in South Africa for the Oryx programme, be used as the basis for the planned attack helicopter.

At least one engineer is known to have proposed that the attack helicopter be based on the engines and dynamics system of the Aerospatiale Dauphin, an intermediate- (light/medium) size helicopter with good manoeuvreability and power, which would have resulted in a smaller, more rapidly developed, and more economical (to develop, buy and operate) system.

[b]As the French were allowing South Africa to use the powerplants and dynamics of the Super Puma, they would surely have agreed to the South Africans using the same elements from the Dauphin. However, the SAAF felt that using the same engines and dynamics as the Oryx would simplify logistics and reduce maintenance costs, so the decision was made to use the Super Puma system


This is a key reason in Denel’s failure to export the aircraft. No one will buy a warplane whose avionics system is based on 20-year-old computers.

Then there is the cost of the aircraft – the direct result of both attempting to make it a world beater and depriving it of eco-nomies of scale by cutting the order to only 12. “The unit cost of the Rooivalk is about $40- million,” says Heitman. This makes it as expensive as the Boeing Apache and the Eurocopter Tiger, the latest models of which have state-of-the-art avionics, and much more expensive than the smaller AgustaWestland Mangusta/Mongoose, and the Russian Mi-24/35 family.

Export possibilities have been further reduced by foreign worries about the long-term viability of Denel: will the company still be around in 20 years to continue to support the Rooivalk, if they should buy it? And then there is the fact that the Rooivalk is very heavily dependent on French technology, now the property of Eurocopter, yet Denel tried to export the Rooivalk not only without Eurocopter’s prior agreement and support, but actually in open competition (for example, in Australia) with Eurocopter’s own Tiger.


https://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/what-went-wrong-with-the-rooivalk-2007-06-08-1

thanks for the history lesson that nobody disputed

kabe1:
You're telling yourself lies. Shocking thing is you believe those lies.

It's from Denels own website you muppet

"Rooivalk Attack Helicopter (AH-2A) is a Denel product. Denel Aeronautics a subsidiary of the Denel is the Design Authority and Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM)."

QuietMynd:
I would have believed it but the source is the reason for the trust issue

well in that case u should shut the fvck up because you have no idea what a proper source is then.....since Dr Heitman is one of the most respected Defence journalists in the world.

About the author:

"Dr Helmoed Römer Heitman worked with the non-statutory forces and political parties in the run up to the 1996
Defence White paper, and worked on the 1998 Defence Review. He has since worked with the
SA Army Vision 2020 team, advised the Navy on the potential of large multi-role vessels and
developed a new wing structure for the Air Force. He served on the Resource Group of the
Defence Review Committee from 2011 to 2013. Helmoed holds Economics and Public
Administration degrees from the University of Cape Town, an MA in War Studies from
King’s College, University of London and Management Diplomas from Stellenbosch
University’s Graduate School of Business, and passed the junior staff course of the
SA Army College. He has written six books and three minor titles on defence
matters, drawn up more than 120 papers and studies, presented papers at
more than sixty defence conferences and published more than 500 articles
on defence matters in defence journals, other periodicals and
newspapers in South Africa and in other countries."

QuietMynd:
Very pathetic.
The 200:4000 man.
Living in alternate universe

"From just after 16:00 on Friday 22 March until about 21:00 on Sunday 24 March, about 200
South African soldiers fought a series of running battles outside Bangui in the Central African
Republic (CAR) against a well-armed Seleka force of several thousand, that has since been
estimated at between 4 000 and 7 000"

http://parabat.org.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/The_Battle_in_Bangui_-_The_Untold_Inside_Story.pdf

kabe1:
This has to be the most ignorant comment I've read this year.

The Rooivalk is based on and relies heavily on components and technical expertise from the EU. Especially France.

Why shouldn't Nigerians demand that we build our own?

The benefits in skills, economics and technical expertise are endless.

So why shouldn't we demand it?

"Rooivalk Attack Helicopter (AH-2A) is a Denel product. Denel Aeronautics a subsidiary of the Denel is the Design Authority and Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM)"

http://www.denelaeronautics.co.za/products--services/rooivalk-oem

kabe1:
South-Africa never had the capacity to build on the 12 units of Rooivalk that were manufactured.

They don't have the technical expertise, finance or political leverage to make the Rooivalk work.

The Rooivalk would be subject to heavy economic sanctions from it's original equipment manufacturers in Europe and America.

As hard as it might sound, the aircraft was doomed for failure, it was never a leadership problem.

Denel is the OEM of the Rooivalk....hell the first Rooivalk protype was built under heavy sanctions from the west same with the Oryx..... You simply have a problem with anything South African hence you go above and beyond to spew nonsense that you obviously know nothing about.

dragon2:
The Rooivalk is an example of Africa's inability to work with each other. That bird should be all over the continent as it's main attack helio. No way it would be in that state if it was the EU.
In the EU the major states would manufacture the main parts,some states, components,while others, assembly process. Our leaders are constantly measuring each other up rather than co- operating. Just pathetic. Better Denel became an African defence company that got billions in Funding and the smartest brains on the continent than let all those smart eggs disappear out of the continent. Who knows Spacex,falcon 9/ STARSHIP could have been an African project.

amen my bru!!!

kabe1:
1 crashed

Denel is dead...... No point kicking a dead horse.

crashed and repaired.

Also Denel can die, that Rooivalk will simply be given back to SAAF making it 12 in service.

Also I'm glad you agree on what I said about the Rooivalk's raw performance

kabe1:
I see you're still flying with your delusions of grandeur. Good luck with that.

Highest this and highest that, yet only 10 are in active service, and all with South-Africa.

11 actually with SAAF and 1 with Denel test and development centre..

Anyway this wasn't about export orders but rather about raw performance.... And given your response I would conclude that you were unable to prove any of my assertions wrong

kabe1:
"Still flying with this delusion?".

Pathetic.

name me an AH with a higher service ceiling, higher in ground effect hover ceiling, higher out of ground effect hover ceiling, better operating temperatures, higher G force rating, higher combat range, higher take off altitude, higher endurance time, not to mention it also ranks in the top 3 in terms of max speed, climb rate, ferry range, sideway speed...... Must I go on?

kikuyu33:
One or the advantages of small scale light inf ops like Mali apart from blooding a new officer corps and testing weapons systems and tactics is seeing how they stand up to REAL WORLD CONDITIONS.
Glossy brochures and OEM statements more often than differ from the actual!

‘
[url][https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com/news/385336-german-army-mali-problems/amp/url]

Not jihadi fire as you'd think in an active warzone but more mundane factors have grounded even their CAS!


Lurker4long you Saffas have dropped the ball! By now you SHOULD have a simpler Rooivalk lite operational. I know the Original was built to perform hot and high. I've seen or written Apaches struggle in Afghanistan due ro the altitude.

well Denel is fvcked so at this stage Rooivalk export is a pipe dream

Which is unfortunate because in terms of raw performance the Rooivalk demolishes all of its competition

Gichwawa254:
show me then coz have watched jozi videos without seeing them

they are all over the place

Gichwawa254:
asked a question about Jozi ,nice streets good road markings and good pavements but I don't see street CCTV cameras considering its a violent city?why

there are cameras all over the place bru...

Shma2020:
Kenya vs South Africa is just a banter. Jln115 knows that. We can post all slums in South Africa but fact still remain they're way ahead of kenya and any African country.. Why do you take things so serious? No wonder you keep mentioning emotional everytime.

some actually take this thread seriously mate

Continued

Like I said.... Slums aren't created equal.... A few pics I took while driving through Kwanonqaba today.... Basically all persons living in shacks are given new low cost housing as can be seen in the pics.... Also you can see the extensive infrastructure and road quality as well as universal WiFi.

mtisTheQubit:
I believe that super intelligent AI will be the last thing humans invent. Who's with me on that?

you and maybe kikuyu...

Shma2020:
It's 5.0%. I don't know where you got 4.5% from.

the world bank

Shma2020:
It's actually 5. 9% in 2022 and that's the year we're all looking up for . For 2021, it's 5.0%. Let's just blame it on covid.

actually I read its like 4.5% for 2021

AfriqueDuZuid:
Mobile internet 2021

nice

Shma2020:
Kenya is anticipated to grow at 5.6% in 2022.

and 2021?