₦airaland Forum

Alexleo

alexleo:
@joagbaje and mabell,
am not suprised at your reponse to this because this man's life style runs contrary to that of your pastor whom some of you worship even more God,

there is difference between followership and worship. Don't who don't have who to follow attack this who follow someone as worshippers of that person.

Let me tell you that a position that God calls you to serve can put you to hell if you are not careful.

Wheredid you get that nonsense from. How can God give you a ministry that will take you to hell? God give perfect things dear.

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 

God doesn't give you a ministry that will take you to hell. Rather, Hell will try to take you from the ministry especiallly through discouragement .discourage you from fulfilling your call . That's why we ought to strengthen this who are weak. If one of us suffer discouragement it can affect others.

1 Corinthians 12:26-27
26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 

What would have been paul's advice to a minister Contemplating runing away. Will Paul praise him like you guys are doing religiously in ignorance or encourage him to fulfil his ministry. I tell you, Paul would be on his case to make him fulfil the call
As he did to archipuss through Timothy.

Colossians 4:17
17 And tell Archippus, “Pay attention to the ministry you have received in the Lord, so that you can accomplish it. ” 

He wasn't called to be a pastor.that's why he could walk out. It's not humility. If he were called by God as a pastor, it is rather STUPIDITY to walk out. It doesn't matter  what people say about you, some will abuse you , some will praise you. People must talk about you as a public person , especially when you make impact. It's part of what a popular pastor has to contend with. No more privacy. You can't take a stroll, you can't go to supermarket.  You can live normal life. It's a big sacrifice. But what keeps you going is the fact that you are responsible to God and to a cause and the people to whom God has sent him. You can't please everyone. Jesus had praise singers and enemies, but he knew how to handle them both by focusing on God because the assignment is more important than his feeling.

   Luke 11:27-28 
27 As He was saying these things, a woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “The womb that bore You and the one who nursed You are blessed! ” 
28 He said, “Even more, those who hear the word of God and keep it are blessed! ” 

 John 9:4-5
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

 Luke 9:62
62 But Jesus said to him, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God. ” 

If he was called to be a pastor, he rather needs your prayers rather than praise, he couldn't stand the prassure. He will answer for his unfinished ministry. But if he was not called to be a pastor. I will commend him for taking a honourable part by leaving what he wasn't called to do for his real assignment .

donnie:
^^^ Happy new year.
@Those who say the disciples were born again before Christ's resurrection,
What about the ancient departed saints who came out of the graves with Jesus? How come they also awaited Christ's salvation?
Or better still, explain the scriptures below.


Ephes. 4:9 
    (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 


Eph 4: 8
When He ascended on high, he led captives in His train and gave gifts to men.


Matthew 27:50-53 
    Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. [51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; [52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 

The problem is just that the doctrine of salvation is not well taught in many circle. If a man takes his time to carefully study the scriptures , the evidences are clear. The Old testament saints were righteous according the the standard of righteousness in their dispensation. Why were they held in hell or paradise? Bellow, even though we know that they didint suffer in hell. But why didn't they go to heaven when they die? They all believe in the messiah. Every book of the prophets talks about him. Job called him "my redeemer" David called him lord.even though they were qualified for the new life, but the way has not been opened for them yet. Their spirits were still in the Adamic state. They still had the sinful nature, it's the blood of Jesus every one was waiting for. And when the blood was shed , it travelled back to the begining of creation and travelled to the future. But until the blood was shed , no man received the new nature nor became born again as a new creation . The creation was created in christ when he died. , so when he rose, they and us came alive in him with a new life. This new man was created in him.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus . . . . . . 

SirJohn:
@newmi
this is a classic case of paranoia, in what way has what I said deviated the thread? Mr Jo is accusing someone else of evading questions whereas he would only answer questions that are most convenient for him. he owes me three unanswered questions on NL; goodnews is he can run but he cant hide
now u're making me derail

If I asked a question and there's no response , I'll ask again. Maybe the person forgot , or he didn't see it. I probably didn't see the question. The one I know ididnt answer , I explained to you to create a separate thread and we will all contribute. Except if you just want to witch hunt joagbaje. But I hope not.

desertboom:
Hi people, The Holy Bible recorded about jesus earlier life from 0 - 12 years old and left 13 - 29 years but continued from 30 - 33 years when he died for every one of us according to the scripture. However, my big question is; what happened to Jesus christ between the ages of 13 - 29? What happened for good 18 years of his life that there was no any significant record. I am a good christian and will appreciate constructive replies. Thanks[color=][/color][color=][/color]

Those were the silent years of Jesus . His earthly ministry began at the age of 30 which was the age of adoption and responsibility, that was why attention was focus on his life from that age because that was the time he received the holyghost as an e powerement to fulfil Gods assignment.

^^^
The question was , when did the apostles get born again? . I know there are two major schools of thought . One says on the Pentecost ,the second says when Jesus appeared in the upper room and breathed upon them saying "recieve the spirit" I thought those are the issue we should be talking about. But our deeper bros image and olaadegbu claimed that the apostles were born again during the earthly ministry of christ ,even before his death on the cross!. How can the new life of the new testament be given when the blood of christ had not been shed. I said nobody got born again until Jesus rose from the dead. The new coven at didn't come of effect until Jesus rose from the dead. If people got born again without the death , burial and resurrection of christ, then what need was his death?

1 Corinthians 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith[ is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.

@inesqor

I'm wondering where to start from in this your last post. Let me just pick one point to explain all

The Seal is the Holy Spirit, the seal was available by proxy to the OT saints via IOUs issued while waiting for the King, Christ, to be born on earth. They looked forward as we look backwards but as Peter said, its the very same word of God that makes us Born Again.

Old testament folks look towards it , we look back to it right? Looking forward to what? And backward to what?   TO THE CROSS! It  was not the birth of Jesus that brought salvation. But his death on the cross . The blood had to be shed. Without the shedding of the blood there is no remission for sin. 

Hebrews 9:16-18
16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.

@dulcet

Dulcet7:
Hello Joagbaje. I don't believe this. Rather, they all got born again when they believed in the God that can single-handedly make people born-again.

They were circumcised in the body but not in their spirit. The blood of Jesus was needed for ratification. Since their spirit have not been recreated . Their worship of God was not perfect because of the nature of sin. But we , by the new created spirit have been circumcised not by flesh but in the spirit.

 John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God[ is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship[ him] in spirit and in truth.

Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. 

@Image123

Image123:
@Joagbaje
Thanks for answering the questions, its a good step in the right direction.(though i'm not sure you said what it means to be born again, but i'll pass)

Man is born dead in his spirit, To be born again is to have man's spirit recreated. This recreation was made possible by the death burial and resurrection of christ. 

Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do[ them]. 

Been born again is an operation of the holy spirit, being born again is also called being baptised into the body of christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body. . .


 John 7:39
39( But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet[ given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The operation of the holy spirit has been outward . Just like the Old Testament prophets . The holyspirit operation was not inward because Jesus had not been glorified .

John 14:17-20
17[ Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 

Eternal life is a life in christ . Jesus didnt come into any person until his ascension . When a man receives Jesus , he receives the life in christ as well. Because the life is in christ.

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life;[ and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 

being born again is the same as eternal life. what we're saying is that the above disagrees with your belief concerning the apostles. The apostles had eternal life, no doubt. Meaning, it is the same as them being born again. What are the pre-requisites for eternal life again? Amongst others, it's simply the below:

John 3:15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 
John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

All these scriptures are irrelevant to your claim, they were written after his resurection.

John 6:54  [color=#770077]Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Does this ring a bell?
Matthew 26:26  And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 
Mat 26:27,28  And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 
  For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The communion was symbolic , that's drink was symbolic , but that was not the blood of the covenant . The blooodof the covenant was shed at the cross. A covenant can not be if effect until the testator dies. So, Jesus saying the wine is the blood is only symbolic. 

Hebrews 9:16-17
16 For where a testament[ is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17[b] For a testament[ is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.[/b] 

The life is in christ, christ only came in to man after resurrection . No man could recieve the life  until Jesus died. If men could be born again , there would have been no need for his death. It's an insult to the blood of christ. The new testament became of effect after Jesus died. A testament can not be of effect until the testator die. This is so simple.

OLAADEGBU:
You want me to answer one question, have you answered the question aletheia and others asked you about the blood of Jesus shed from the foundation of the world?

There was no physical blood shed from the foundation of the world. It was a prophetic utterance.  Just like "a father of many nation have I made thee" that didn't mean Abraham had a nation before Isaac or isreal.

Have you answered all the verses of the gospel that I have quoted that Jesus said about the disciples to buttress my point?  What was Peter's confession about the Person of Jesus Christ?  Answer all those and I will answer your one question.

the issue is not what Peter said, Moses called him shillo,Job called him "my redeemer" The major issue is the grace availabe for their time.

^^^^
why are you afraid to answer the question. Let's not try to win an argument. If i'm wrong , I will gladly admit and learn. Don't raise all these wof sentiments nonsense to dodge a question. I'm sure you guys are feeling boxed in. If not you should have answered . Many professing christing lack understanding of righteousness in christ. If your foundation is faulty it will affect the entire structure. The truth is simple. If men were born again before the blood of Jesus was shed . Was need and significant was his death .

Christ came in the order of Melchizedek , tithe collection was Revealed in the order of mechizedek. There is no single scripture where God or any prophet spoke against tithing. Jesus endorsed it the only time he made reference to it. If no single scripture condemend tithing ,we have no right to condemn it. Whoever is not convinced in his heart to tithe is free, but should not condemned those who believe in tithing .

Abraham didn't pay to levite ,Abrahams tithe was not on animals and crops only

We are not paying tithe because law say so. We are not under the law.Tithing is based on faith revelation which receded the law

Jesus had to die physically and spiritually , to identify with the fallen state of the natural man. Jesus had to be made alive or quickened in the spirit and as mans representative, the OT saints, plus the apostles and us were all quickened or made alive and circumcised through christ resurrection.

Ephesians 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,( by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised[ us] up together, and made[ us] sit together in heavenly[ places] in Christ Jesus:. 

Colossians 2:11-12
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with[ him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

   The resurrection of christ is the key to new birth. Jesus had not invoked the new testament until his death. No body could get born again. Or recreation in their spirit. The new creation man was created in christ  in his resurrection. This is the true doctrine of Soteriology.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

aletheia:
You wouldn't! Study again God's promise to Abraham
Was the blood of Jesus of effect only from circa 33 AD onwards or was it of effect from the beginning? Do you think the redeeming power of Jesus is limited in time? If Abraham was not "born again", why are Christians called children of Abraham?

The old testament folks are born again. I'm sure we had an agreement on that issue before. They got born again at the resurrection of christ. No man got recreated before Jesus rose from the dead. It is an insult to the blood on Calvary.

They believed Jesus came from God. But they've not received the new nature nor the holy spirit. It's this new nature that came by the resurrection life that makes a new man, that is the born again experience.

Isaiah, Moses , david all believed in the coming messiah but that didn't grant them new nature. Without the death of Jesus ,no man could recieve the new nature.
 
@olaadegbu,I asked a question which you avoided .

^^^^
Will you do the work of the holy spirit? why dont you follow the scripture . I pray for ministers do you? . God didn't ask us to judge them.If s man says God tell him so and so. Is it not between him and The God? Christ knows how to purge the church. Besides The judgement day is there. Can a man escape God?

I'm not justifying crook activities, I only advocate we follow biblical principles . There is no bible base for all these talk talk we do. It dissent give honour to christ's body.

Can you just honestly answer one question?
If the disciples were born again before the blood of Jesus was shed to reconcile men, of what need is the death burial and resurrection of christ?

If a man has done crook work , the law should take action on him. But if the law has no evidence of crook activities. We shouldn't be the law. But if the man has don something against the church, there is a structure in the body of christ to deal with it. . But if the man has done something against God. Lets leave God to do his work .   The bible is rich on all topics except we don't study it. A man that God has not called can not last .Every tree Jesus has not planted will die. We may just be fighting God without knowing .

Matthew 15:13
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
 
  Matthew 3:10
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

^^^
good point

i know that "Dr"  Leroy  Thompson is a "pastor" but does anyone doubt that he is alo a disgusting thief?

Let us see what the "touch not my anointed" MOG defenders have to say about this!

Meanwhile anyone who wants to see how far apart from Christianity is the teaching of "Dr" Leroy Thompson should google "money cometh"  and in particular search for the related videos.

Does the talking change anything? It is prayers that changes things. I will rather pray for MOG against error and distractions than  sit down and be talking about them and fall into condemnation.

What We were asked to do is pray for ministers.

Hebrews 13:18
18 Pray for us. We are sure that we have a clear conscience and desire to live honorably in every way.

What God asked us not to do is judge ministers.

 Romans 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 

We have neglected the one assignment God gave us to do and we are busy doing what he said not to do. Judging and busybody. We shall do well when we focus attention on the one God asked us to do which is to pray for minister. A minister may fall into error because no one is praying for him.

1 Thessalonians 5:25
25 Brethren, pray for us.

OLAADEGBU:
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits -- Mark 6:7

And they went out, and preached that men should repent.  And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them -- Mark 6:12-13.

Jesus would not call out a pack of sinners (goats, wolves, dogs and swines), empower them and and send them to preach the gospel of salvation to others, would he?

The apostles had not been born again nor received the holyghost , they operated by delegated authority.God could have used a stone!.

If you claim they were born again , what did Jesus die for? Was there any need for Jesus to die again?

So what did Jesus die for.

aletheia:
Did the remission of sin by the shedding of Jesus' blood take effect only from circa 33 AD onwards, or was it of effect before that time? Were Abraham, Moses and the others reconciled to God without the shedding of Jesus' blood?
So in effect you are saying Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Daniel, etc were false worshipers because they lived before the resurrection of Jesus?  
[b]You are mixing apples and oranges betraying a faulty understanding of the gospel. The Law is separate and distinct from the Abrahamic covenant. What was the purpose of the Law?

#1. The Abrahamic covenant precedes the Law

#2. The Abrahamic covenant is based on faith---And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (Genesis 15:6)


#3. The gospel of Jesus is annunciated in the Abrahamic covenant---And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. (Galatians 3:

#4. All Christians are partakers of the Abrahamic covenant through Jesus (We gentiles are grafted in)---Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. (Galatians 3:7)

#5. The New Testament is the Abrahamic Covenant reaffirmed and explicated---And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. (Genesis 15:5)

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. (Romans 9:7-
[/b]

I don't understand your point. No man was born again before the blood of Jesus was shed period! The blood of Jesus saved both the saints under the OT and New testament. But they did not get born again until after Jesus was glorified.
They got saved at his death.

The question is when did the apostle get born again , the answer is, they got saved after the death of christ .

You can only be born twice.

That is not restitution, it is confession. Resitution is to restore what was stolen, in this case, nothing has been restored . It only brought problem that can lead to more terrible things. I don't want to condemn the pastor but he could have done better than that.

This has been my concern too. People function at different levels of revelation of truth. We should accept each other even though we may differ in our convictions, we should allow the holy spirit to do his works in the life of everybody. True light will soo. Shine into e eery dark corners and christ will be glorified as we air our opinion in love.

2 Timothy 2:24-25
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all[ men], apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

OLAADEGBU:
"Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you." -- John 15:3
Who is speaking here and to whom?  When was this said?

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." -- 1 Peter 1:23

Can anyone here decipher whether the Apostles were born again before Jesus' death and resurrection or not?

They believed in christ but their spirit had not been recreated, they saw jesus in the light of a political messiah. To deliver Israel from the enemy.they had not been recreated in their spirit.

Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:

A natural man has a dead spirit. The spirit only get quickened when a man get born again. He new life supplants the old .

We must remember that there was no remission without the shedding if the blood  It is a big error to say that men were reconciled to God without the shedding of the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 9:22
22 . . . and without shedding of blood is no remission. 

 the new creation was created in christ when he was resurrected. His resurrection gave birth to the new creation.

They had a form of godliness but their worship was I'm the flesh before Jesus died. The true worshippers came on the scene after resurrection when God had given them a new spirit. 

John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God[ is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship[ him] in spirit and in truth.

 Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Ephesians 2:5-6
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,( by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised[ us] up together, and made[ us] sit together in heavenly[ places] in Christ Jesus: 

Jesus didn't function in the new testament . He operated in the abrahamic covenant . The new testament could not have come to effect until the death of the. Testator who is Jesus christ.

Hebrews 9:16-17
16 For where a testament[ is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament[ is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 

That's why Jesus couldn't show them everything yet while he was alive because they've not recieved the new nature in their spirit and by that they lack the facility to contain the knowledge of salvation.  

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know[ them], because they are spiritually discerned. 

 John 16:12-13
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,[ that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 

@image123

what does it mean to be born again? Is there a difference between having eternal life and been born again?

To be born again is thesame as receiving eternal life of God in our spirit . This eternal life is a life we recieve instantly we got born again. 

Then, can someone commit sin and still have eternal life/be in the book of life despite the sin?

Yes of course , sin doesn't separate us from the life and the love of God. So long as the person still lives God, his co science is still after God, a man commits sins because of his immaturity. if he sins and realise it,all he need do is to repent of it and come out of such errors. If your child  brakes your plate, he does not cease to be you child because he did wrong. Eternal life does not switch off and on. The name is still in the book if life. Except the man commit the unpardonable sin by denying Jesus as lord. This unpardonable sin is demonic, you can't commit it by mistake, the person must have been a mature Christian who has  yielded to devils u  till devils posses his spirit. He loses his salvation , he can never repent or be forgiven. But as long as a man has conscience after God, he can not commit unpardonable sin. Which is also called "sin unto death" 

Hey, plus, who are the two or three people whose names were 'blotted out in the Bible'? And what's with the 'ONLY' condition you put in front, are they not enough?

I can remember ahithiopel and judas ( law of double reference)

Enigma:
When will this fellow stop spreading poison for God's sake.He now says (as he has hinted previously) that Jesus was "born again"; that means Jesus was a sinner who needed to be "saved"; who needed to be redeemed, who needed to be born again.The Redeemer Himself needing to be redeemed?

Redemption is different from being born again. The human race was redeemed by the shedding of the blood of christ. Redemtion means to buy back. Jesus bought back man buy oaring the price as substitute . That was enough to bring man back to adamic state before tha fall. But the resurrection of Jesus gave birth to the new creation.

The One who borns people again, Himself needing to be born again

some Grammer there buroda

First begotten from the dead simply means first to be resurrected (and not in the way of Lazarus); first to conquer death and thereby giving others to follow the power also to conquer death through resurrection.

Thesame holy spirit that raised Lazarus raised Jesus from the dead.

Jesus had to be born again, not because he became a sinner . He actualy became worst than a sinner , he became the substance and embodiment of sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For he hath made him[ to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Galatians 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, [b]being made a curse [/b]for us: for it is written, Cursed[ is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

Jesus died 2 deaths, he died spiritually , and he died physically. If he hadn't died spiritually , the physical death would not have been possible,

I mean and they call this fellow "pastor"!

I didn't say so, "thou sayeth"

Enigma:
In a recent thread I said that these people deny the divinity of Christ - sometimes subtly; well, the post quoted above is an example.

You should know by now that lying is a sin. All of you that take pleasure in lying against pastor christ. How on earth will a Christian deny the divinity of christ?

Image 123

Image123:
So Jo, you're back and you haff dodge my questions.

I don't know which question, I can't find it.

life goes on. I see Enigma has explained that scripture you quoted. Always study, and also think 'outside your box' once in a while. There are resources and commentaries around you for passages you're not clear on. Don't just build weird doctrines out of one passage.

I don't need the advice .just make your post. Don't be too sure of yourself.

Like enigma has said, Jesus being the first begotten of the dead simply points Him as the first to resurrect.

What of Lazarus and others?

garyarnold:
Isn't it odd that even though Abram gave a tenth directly to Melchizedek, the king/priest, that some Christians think they can give directly to God by giving it to their pastor?

I find it quite offensive that pastors have appointed themselves to be the receiver of what belongs to God.  After all, the pastor says the tithe belongs to God.  Then he self-appoints himself to receive the tithe!!!

God never gave any pastor or church permission to receive his tithe or his gifts.

Since the tithe belongs to God, if your pastor accepts it isn't he stealing it from God?

Was Aaron stealing from God?

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Lucky for those of you who think you tithe, you are merely giving a tenth of your income to your church.  You aren't paying the Biblical tithe or you would be disobeying God's command to take His tithe to the Levites.  But then, if in your heart you are paying the Biblical tithe, then I guess you are sinning and breaking God's commands.

It is not a donation to church, the heart gives it in worship to God. What is done with it is not anybodys problem.