₦airaland Forum

Trace this discussion from the start. Fatherhood is a blessing. And thanks for askin!

TheSuperNerd:
"For now" is short term. England had the bragging rights in 1966 after all, until 1970 even. Where are they now?

We are talking sustained reputation not short term reputation.



I would rather we keep our eyes on both prizes. Doing well at home (on the African continent) and using that as an extra boost to push on against the world's best (on the world stage) rubbing shoulders with them and even "besting" them.

This is majorly how the best is measured. In both worlds. My hi to your little baby... Hope you enjoying Fatherhood

I don’t have much time for long posts. I need to attend to my infant. It’s all about timing my friend. Should Senegal go the farthest they would have the bragging rights for now.

TheSuperNerd:
African Champion is not just a title. It is a symbol of being Africa's best because that champion beat the best to get there. They conquered at HOME.

South Korea for all they did in 2002 are still not reverred in the same league with Japan in international soccer. Japan trumps South Korea. They have had decent WC outings but have dominated their continents with Four titles. Iran have three titles. South Korea have the best WC showing for Asia but Japan trumps them because the balances of their performances on the continental and world stage is better compared to Korea.

This is why England is still not taken seriously in International football. They have a world title... They have been world champions once. But they are not rated among the Best Teams or biggest Guns in World football. Going into any major tournament be it Euros or Worlds, England is considered dark horses. And part of this is because they have never translated their WC win in 1966 into a European dominance within the European Continent.

This is why the best of both worlds is key. That is how you know the Best.

I have already given the reasons why. I know we like the regular owamgbe. If we had our way we would even do it annually.

Odunayaw:
Why? Playing more qualifying games doesn't equal jack (Saudi & Iran is an example)

And God forbid, leave our AFCON biannually thank you

Okay I see where we differ. You are focused on the recognition on the continent. I’m focused on recognition at the global stage. Among us Africans expect is to be sentimental because our country’s pride is in question.

Outside Africa, “African champions” is just a title. You will be rated by what you give at the global stage.

Modified
Nigeria has 6 World Cup appearances compared to Senegal’s 2. We are not more respected because of our 3 AFCON titles.

TheSuperNerd:
Egypt won the AFCON back to back thrice... So why won't they get tired of Afcon success and want to take it further on the world stage?
Have Nigeria won the AFCON back to back? No matter how you wanna dribble past it, the best of both worlds is what truly crowns one the Best.

Look ehn, all this one is still story. A decent WC performance does not make a team Africa's best. Full stop. Algeria is a case study. Ghana is a case study. Senegal is a case study. What respect did they command on the African continent after doing well at the mundial and coming home to flunk at the Afcon?

What is Senegal's reputation on the African continent? Have they won an Afcon Title? Senegal's best achievement is WC QF and AFCON Final (once). Nigeria is far more revered than Senegal in international football even though we haven't reached the WC QF stage yet.

A decent/good performance is not how we know Africa's Best finest. That is just it. Those that go farthest at the WC from Africa are the fortunate ones. Luck, Fortune all combined with a team's level of efforts determines this on the world stage. Some teams take the easy path, some the hard path. Fortune plays a role.

@bolded, the real question is how has it helped Africa all these years? If it’s not working, modify it.

Icon4s:
So what happens to the one in 2 years AFCON and it's qualifiers.

South America that does something similar to what you just explained above play their COPA America once in 4 years and they dont play qualifiers for it.

Talking about AFCON now is a digression. Everyone wants to win it all no doubt, talking about the best of both worlds. But when U look at your screen now , you don’t see continental stats but WC stats. All this while Egypt was missing out on the WC they were nothing in global football. They would rather have loved to see Salah and co get to even the second round than win another AFCON. Competition get grade. And you can hardly win it both. I don’t even know what you are arguing about. Many countries will trade a continental crown for having the best shot at the WC stage. But who will not want to win both? Your performance at the global stage carries more weight than what you did in your locality.

The Ivory Coast U17 Team 2013 class got nothing on the world conquering Golden Eaglets of the same year. Also consider 2015. Who had the bragging rights in both occasions? Nigeria of course.

African Champions is a just a title. At the World Cup, other countries will rate you based on what you do there.

TheSuperNerd:
Funnily even France were both World and European Champions between 1998 and 2000. They knew they had the respect of the world after conquering at France 98 but like every great team, they also knew they needed the respect of the Continent called Europe. This is why they took Euro 2000 very very seriously. They didn't drag themselves about and played with nothing to die for just because they were already World champions.... Noooo... They still fought and showed the continent that their success on the world stage was no flux at all.

Spain did same thing. Germany did same thing. Even Brazil did.

The best of both worlds (conquering in your continent and doing well/decently enough on the world stage) is what truly crowns the BEST.

One cannot be Champions without being referred to as The Best. The Best in football are known by their titles also. That is the way it is in soccer. So it is not about what our personal preferences are of wanting A WC SF above an AFCON or vice versa. After all, why can't we have both?

We’ve been on the same page all this while. First we need to have a positive identity. And that should be our driving force in everything we do as a people. Our own na copy copy.

Modified
Copy copy will only give u mixed results. No sustainable direction for excellence.

Icon79:
Bingo!

And like I said yesterday, that's the problem we had in the game against Croatia. Rohr tried to make us play with defensive organization that those Scandinavian countries. But that's not in our DNA. Senegal on the other hand who are coached by a son of the soil, came with their typical African football, with pace and power, and they got a result.


O pari

Sir, they play like Europeans. That tells it all.

Icon79:
Big Joe, I am big supporter of that idea myself; however, that might not even be the panacea to having these mediocre Arab countries from representing us. Because they tend to play well against African oppositions, it's only when they get to the world stage that they often forget how to play football


O pari

Na lie o Nerdie knows it all o

somehow:
Eeya, i actually didnt know about him until now. You no we cant know it all?

I’ve been saying we need to change the format of CAF WC qualification although it has favored us sometimes. We need several preliminary rounds and a final 12 countries that would play in a mini-league format. All the rounds should be spread such that the qualification matches for the next WC begin immediately after the end of the current WC.
Africa would be better represented and a larger pool of players involved.

Modified
AFCON should be held once in every 4 years instead.

Icon79:
You can never count on the North Africans to come through for Africa. Once you get on the world stage, their feet turn to clay. Put either one of Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroun, or Senegal (take your pick) into any of these North African World Cup groups (Egypt, Morocco, or Tunisia) and we'll be talking about, at a minimum the round of 16.

Let's hope that Nigeria and Senegal makes it to the round of 16, so that we can make a case for CAP to form a separate zone for the North African countries. They haven't represented Africa well. In fact, they are wasting our slots. For instance, there's no doubt in my mind that Ghana or Cameroun would've done much better than Morocco, Egypt or Tunisia!


O pari

I lie? Rohr already has an excuse in waiting.

fabyom:
loollll Joebie no go kill somebody. You know Messi is playing tomorrow so guys pack your bags we are already out. #smh

Two different things, African Champions and the best.
France may not be the European champs but if they win the WC, they would be the World’s best, and I’m sure even the Euro champs will admire them. In the same vain, I would admire any Ativan team that goes the farthest. Personally, i’d rather have us reach even the semis of the 2022 WC, than win another AFCON before then.

TheSuperNerd:
Context or not, the team that goes farthest at the WC be it even Nigeria aren't African Champions. Cameroun is and it will stay that way until Afcon 2019. Talking about WC records, Even Ghana's and Cameroun's QF still screams and loom large over the African continent despite their absence. The WC is always never enough. If it ever was by WC record, the Algerian team of 2014 would blow Africa away but it still didn't happen. WC performance is not enough to crowm Africa's best. We need both worlds.

It’s all about context my friend. In a WC season like this we are talking about WC record. Other times, granted, AFCON is the criteria.

TheSuperNerd:
The fact remains Africa's best is still measured by the Afcon. It is never enough to reach the round of 16 or the QFs at the WC. This is why Egypt is still reverred as Africa's most successful senior national team of all time in men's international soccer.

So African sides doing well at the mundial is based on Fortune + the team's efforts. Morocco were in the toughest group among the Africans. You cannot rule that out.

There is an element of luck (or as I put it most fortunate) needed, But even if u gift some teams with an easy group they would still blow the opportunity.

The World Cup is a whole different ball game. Make we no use AFCON deceive ourselves.

TheSuperNerd:
The "most fortunate" actually. Ghana were "the best" at WC 2010 but have never conquered Africa with that Squad. The best in Africa are those who win the Afcon and can also try translate it on the world stage. It is unfortunate Cameron were in our group in WC Qualifying.

At the end of the day, the best team is the one who go farthest.

TheSuperNerd:
Well said. Morocco have done well so far and they have shown why they are a top African side. It is just unfortunate they got this group. They are better than Senegal. They have played the best football of all African teams but will sadly have to go home early. They were my second favorite African team coming to this mundial and rightly so. The Atlas Lions will be a force at Afcon 2019.

We won’t get a point against Argentina when Rohr is aware Messi is playing.

fabyom:
Nope! A draw. We beat Iceland and draw Argentina to qualify.

I see a draw

Bolowolowo:
Fellow Eagalians, tomorrow, Argentina will face Croatia. What result can we realistically hope for. An Argentian win?

We should stop comparing our players to theirs. Iceland don’t have the best players. Lets focus on their fighting spirit as a unit.

edi287:
And they also have better players than we do.

The only thing, we have to do something to check the excesses of our local coaches so they don’t make SE their enterprise when given too much powers. We need a consortium of the best indigenous coaches with each playing different roles that somehow complements and and at the same time checks the other. We have to work out a formula.

Bolowolowo:
I honestly envy Senegal. See as they succeed with an indigenous coach who understands what it means to be Senegalese, the struggles and what a world cup win would mean for the country. A white man would never experience such intense emotions. Remember our success under Keshi (God rest his soul)?? We must return to those days in Jesus name!!!)

In fact, I’m lost for words. You too like truth

safarigirl:
This Rohr just dey funny me. I he likes, he can pack short players against giants, they will cage all of them the sane way they caged the great Messi and even worse, all the FKs wey dem get go just dey enter net.

Abeg, I no come this morning to yarn Super Eagles matter, I just want to remind everyone that Senegal is the only African nation that went to Russia with an indigenous coach and look how well they did yesteryesterday.

Perhaps their coach was not feeding them tales of how much better Lewandoski is. Do they have a team psychologist? Most likely, no.

What Senegal has that Nigeria obviously doesn't is PRIDE. They had PASSION. That is what PATRIOTISM is about. So, Ogu should go and ask them what's up next time he wants to feed us trash.

The Senegalese team is allergic to losing. You see it when they play, all you see when Nigeria plays is tired, lazy, losers with slave mentality. Always bowing to their white massas.

Good morning guys.

I never knew this. Just the other day I called for a consortium of the best indigenous coaches. I didn’t get one like. I’m not saying Senegal will win the World Cup, but we do have better tacticians compared to those half baked coaches we employ just because they are white. I hope Rohr does well. I’ve not tagged him a failure yet. You are going to get a foreign coach, let him be PROVEN and as well heart ready for the Nigerian project.

ChrisKels:
Did you know that Senegal's coaching crew is made up of their 2002 team?

Aliuo Cisse, Tony Syria, Omar Daf, Lamine Diatta.

But down here, Siasia, Oliseh, Amunike and Finidi fit work together without beef? I doubt


Naija which way?

Burning desire is lacking

gamaliel9:
Where did our speed go? When i watch other matches....there is so much intensity,pace and speed...we had these in abundance in the qualifiers and friendlies....what happened?

Senegal’s WC record is quite impressive so far. 2 appearances, 3 wins, 2 draws. and 1 loss.

Na u dey think another thing

TheSuperNerd:
Okay better.

The point is Fashanu did not refuse to play for Nigeria. I used to believe that

Mujtahida:
If your story is true I'm glad they benched him. What Rashidi gave us, Fash never even dreamt of it.

Person wey dey for England list of worst ever national players. He is number one

We are talking about Fashanu willing to lend a hand.

TheSuperNerd:
Committed to talking to them? Or have you suddenly forgotten Pinnick's efforts with some of these guys from Iwobi to Aina and all?

Exactly, I’m not even questioning the presence of speedsters in SE, I’m talking about those two words you just used

fabyom:
haaaahhaa, grit and determination

No be just follow, if he ran a little slower he won’t have gotten that chance. That striker ran like he was running for his life.

fabyom:
No not downplaying their win. What for! I am just been objective. He was asked to come into the pitch the moment the pols guy played the ball backwards thinking no Senegalese player was there. Go rewatch that moment, the pols last man hesitated a bit cos of the confusion. The ball was played right to where he was going so why will he not follow the flight of the ball.

So back to the NFF. Fashanu is committed

TheSuperNerd:
Yep. He, the NFF and any other force. We need all the guys who can make this happen for us. Like make it actually happen.

Na lie. If na Kayode I for agree. Players when go chase ball that LOOKS impossible to get no dey that team. I’m not saying we are missing Kayode o. I’m just saying a new mentality needs to be infused in our team. Our pressing as a team is poor.

Sportilitica:
I disagree, musa or Iheanacho will chase it down

How do u mean?

BascoVanVeli:
Of all our friendlies I actually think Senegal best prepared us for Iceland. Tall, physical, athletic and well drilled.

Leave Africa matter. Let’s focus on our Super Eagles

Modified

Trying to downplay Senegal’s win. I can tell u for sure if Nigeria has that opportunity no player in that team would have chased that ball like that.

fabyom:
No African team has scored from either corner kick or free kick yet they have conceded most goals from dead ball situations. Football has gone pass the era of dancing around, it is about little details such as crosses, shooting accuracy and dead ball efficiency.
Senegal's goals today came from good fortune. No really outstanding attempt on goal. The second goal will be pursued by any striker cos that was the only choice available