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I found this post. I think it will be better we make our arguments from here.. because everyone has a different definition of world class.
For me I put Mikel in Class 3.. BUT MANY OF YOU WILL PUT HIM IN CLASS 1. That the problem here.

Has Nigeria Ever Produced A World Class Player? by Jarus(m): 8:42pm On Jul 28, 2008
My analysis:
The word 'world class' as it is used by informed football analysts is very hard to define but I will attempt to categorise the usage into three:

CLASS 1 WORLD CLASS: Incontrovertibly,unarguably accepted by every informed analyst
CLASS 2 WORLD CLASS: Almost glaring that they are world class but we will find few respected analysts that will disagree, with reasonable argument
CLASS 3 WORLD CLASS Coaches and other analysts often call some players world class,although recklessly at times. Players respected coaches and/or analysts call world class but which many people will disagree fall under this category.

I can't think of any player that is world class if you want to talk about those that have been around for a long time.
Yaya Toure - arguably. But that's how behind Africa is in Football. Potential-wise I see Nigeria doing great things than we have ever done. I am hopeful about Nigeria U17 2013/2015 classed and other young players springing up. Our golden generation is yet to come. Then we can compare top quality vs top quality. Mikel has little competition at the moment.

For now Aubameyang is the only player I can put up there.
But he is still new relatively compared to players that have been there. And still has to prove it consistency-wise

Oh that reminds me. Eto'o is purely world class

daveP:
Ok




Give me 5 names of African Footballers who you think are world class and have good experience in ucl, EPL, and world cup in a trio.

Okay maybe we have a different definition of World Class.
there is no one definition, as it is subjective. I think that's the reason for all this confusion.
I don't have to comment to your every point.. but let me add here.. As for the Algeria game Etebo impressed me most.
He did a lot defensively, which was uncharacteristic of him

daveP:
Mind you, nowhere do we say he is among the top ten midfielders in the world. We are affirming that he is world class!!! Which is what you seem to have a problem with.




Opta stats disagrees Strongly with you......1

His passes aimed at not losing possession is still one the top 3 best in the EPL.(Not even almighty Ozil, yes I'm a gunner, have a chance at this)


He fills in for Terry when Terry goes goal hungry. Conte didn't want to have such from a midfielder, so we saw the temperature of the bench increasing for Mikel.



Against Bayern, that final, his passes were either 3rd or 4th touch before a goal attempt. Bayern's middle had to foul him to disposses him.





I never liked Mikel when he wasn't replicating his form in the national team years back. But the Afcon win changed all that.



Then his game play at the Olympics..... Obviously you don't see that.



Watched him play against Algeria?


Onazi covered his back but we knew his moves were world class.




We don't hate here, if you have a good point, buttress it well with Facts




His time may be up, but he's not out.



Obviously Ezekwem basses I termed world class cos Barca took him ba? Even if we don't agree yet.


Man u and Chelsea fought for this guy's siggy.....

you can tell i'm not even taking this too serious.
glad to meet you all here!

joseph1013:
Chief, relax! No need to ask anyone to kick you out. People disagree here all the time. Don't take it personal. Don't be surprised if a lot of people support you when you get into the next argument. That's the way this place is.

Keep your head up.

Just because Mikel has less competition in the national team don't make him world class. I don't know your standard.. but these term is relative to me.. firstly I won't be making comparisons to other African players. Because we don't have a lot I can place in that category at the moment. If I mention Aubemeyang, someone will want to shoot my head and say he is a striker. Mikel cannot even be ranked among the top 10 midfiedlers in the world at the moment.. it's okay to be patriotic.. i don't dislike mikel.. but no self proclaimed soccer guru here will convince me to put him in that world class category.. sorry.. maybe write nairaland owner to kick me out of here since you guys own this place..haha

daveP:
Hehehhe




From this Afcon alone, he should tell or show me one midfielder that has the qualities that Mikel have and I'll prostrate for his punditry!



For now, he is just another Jamie Carrgher with nonsensical points.



Even on mobile soccer games, we know what Mikel is rated and that's not even what I want to use to defend Obi, but it's the least and it's a reflection of his qualities in reality(abi na real life we dey talk?)



Safarigirl, exactly 7am? Was that planned?
@yout post?



Joebie pls pick on another player, not Mikel.


We drink from the cup of hype other countries give their players and assume the hype drink was real. Why can't we brew our own hype too.

lol "think deeply before making a comment?" lol
it's a free world.. this is just nairaland.. is this how you get your high of feeling important? -- nairaland?? funny

Kog45:
Yes if his profile failed to convince u,then u need to reach Chelsea ground may be u w be convinced.The heroes of 2012 champions league are all legend at chelsea and it w last till eternity.
Terry and Lampard said a true legend w be remembered for his contribution to Chelsea to show their respect to John Obi.Chelsea as a club paid tribute to one of d longest serving player(Mikel Obi) and u are here try to tell us what is not

My guy u are welcome to a thread where one need to think deeply before making any comment coz people here are gurus when it comes to football.

So I have to be in London or visit the UK to know what is World Class? You can't be on your computer and make assumptions as to where others are located.. Anyways i won't go on with this.

Kog45:
Pls who are d world class players and what is d meaning of world class player coz it's in Nigeria am always hearing world class player,here at my base nothing like world class player.

Those w classified as top player are d guys who played or are playing in top division across d world and also a playing for their national team with good laurels to show for it and Mikel is one of them by winning a lot for his club which i w not mention again and winning prestigious Afcon our own version of copa America which is still eluding Messi and European Cup which Ronaldo won which his fans always used as their supremacy over Messi.

My guy i don't argue but talk football to d best of my knowledge coz have been on it for long and i know what am saying,so Mikel is a top player irrespective d way u view world class player.Pls go to London and visit Chelsea ground then u w know may be Mikel is a world class as u described it.

A player won Afcon,European champions league,Europa cup,two EPL,Four FA cups,League Cup,community shield and 2nd best Africa player 2013,pls rate this player.

Lol, seriously, has it come to this?

goldfish80:
I will go with
3-5-1 formation
....................... Ikeme....
Tekei........... Nagedu........ Balogoun......
Moses............ B. Moukandjo..... Onazi........... Elderson
....... Bassogog......... Mikel.............. Iwobi
..................... Iheanacho

Okay really there is no point arguing this matter all over again. If he was that world class as some of you are claiming here, we will not need to have this argument in the first place.. No doubt he stands over his peers in SE at the moment based on records. But come on, however you want to argue please dont use the word world class when describing Mikel. I will see it as pure sentiments.. you wont to be able to say this anywhere and hardly find someone trying to dispute it.. With MIkel there are many IFs.. if mourinho did not convert him. IF he had went to Man U.etc.. I'm not talking potential now. Based on what we saw from him over the years, he could hardly make a top 20 FIFA shorlist year after year.. Please let's reserve the phrase world class for players that are really special. Not Mikel

Kog45:
U are welcome to one of d best thread on nairaland.Am highly delighted reading your views on Mikel Obi and your discussions with supernerd on Mikel which i see as hatred vs analytical arguments.

I believe Michael2 w be delighted to read my contributions on this coz w had hottest arguments on Mikel that great guys on this needed to come in and say enough is enough,one thing i learnt on this thread is this we have different views and understanding of d game and it take a very knowledgeable guy to really know who is making sense and who is talking thrash.

On John Obi Mikel,i w say this and i w repeat it anytime any day that any pundits that say Mikel is overrated doesn't know anything about football and should keep quiet coz d guy has seen it all as a footballer and must be respected for God sake whether u like him or not,a hatred should not be our judgment in analysing a player.

Truly Mikel has his shortcomings as a player but that doesn't gives room for(MIKEL IS NOT CREATIVE AND CAN'T DICTATES TEMPO OF THE GAME' HE SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING NO 10 for SE" HE IS OVERRATED' HE SHOULD BE DROPPED)This statements signify what i can refer to as total hatred and any fan that show this kind of attitude towards any player always wanted d player to be at d losing side coz have seen fan who wanted Nigeria to lose coz he hate certain player.I hope u w be happy see Nigeria winning despite seeing Mikel on d field.

This is a player that have over 10years experience playing for top European club whether as a regular or on d bench coz i don't want to know and he had good eleven trophy as a a Chelsea player with super prestige champions league as one of d trophy and such a player was being described as nothing,it's uncalled-for and absurd.

Mikel Obi career as a Super Eagles player playing as No 10 was due to coaches decisions.He did not force himself on them,he came to camp and always distinguished himself and pls who is at fault but coming here to tell us Mikel should not be playing NO 10 for eagles is some how crazy,to my surprised u are even saying Ndidi should be picked ahead which show something is amiss.

My question is this whom do u feel can bench this guy coz u said he should be dropped for no reason.A player can only be dropped if he is not playing to expectations and our last three matches proved to us d guy is still good,world cup qualifying for God sake we won home and away with his input and a goal,so what else again coz am confused.

fast fingers.. Ronaldo, Griezmann, Ibra, Messi etc are in a different league.. I modified it to 70%.. because the aforementioned players are above 85 in my estimation.

joseph1013:
That's an A. A is the best grade you can score in an exam.

70%. will barely make Top 100 in the world

daveP:
Lol I saw your talks on Mikel


From a honest point of view give him a rating over 100 to buttress your 'he is just above average' stance pls.

Fred Friday scored a brace. The only Nigerian to score last weekend?

http://spotkik.com/2017/02/07/supereagles-radar-fred-friday-fire-brace-simon-ndidi-bag-motm/

you can argue that they don't have more quality compared to Ivory Coast.. Quality don't always win games.
Let's make sure they cherish their AFCON cup but miss out on Russia.

Icon4s:
Nothing is certain my brother.

You are right about their over-achievement and whether they will maintain that standard is what we can't tell.

Nobody is saying the Cameroonians will not or cannot improve . They are African champions and we have to respect them for that. And we really have to put everything in place to defeat them . What I am against is dwarfing Nigeria before them. I dnt agree they have more quality than our team.

thanks my bro!

good to see u too

joseph1013:
You don't rate Christian "Chairman" Chukwu? Why?

Good to see you on this thread. Welcome to the house!

no I meant when you see a player as world class, but he is actually just above average.
make we leave matter

forgiveness:
What you mean by overated? Are you meaning he no sabi play?

just seeing this.. let me pay homage to the nairaland veterans first.. at least you have a stake here

TheSuperNerd:
Fantastic observation.... Looollll

Sir Mickael2 did the same thing.....

Sir Joebie is now making lightening strike twice in the same thread.... Looollll

Mikel..... Wetin u do these people naa?? Looolll

yours is well noted as well football facts nerd. lol

TheSuperNerd:
Looollll.... The most absurd argument ever....

What's there in my moniker? Scared at how super it is and how it makes you shiver and makes you see in the ignorance in your arguments? Loll

I long gave up myself from the moment you said.... Mikel is overrated, can't dictate a game's tempo and is irrelevant to the Super Eagles.

Schooling you was for the sake of others viewing and for the right info to be re-emphasized... Not for you.



So uhmm... So long okay, your "realism" is well noted mister. Have a nice day.

okay you win.

TheSuperNerd:
Sir Joebie.... Oya see ya words...

...please if you find any of our legends
rank Mikel among the greats.. I will be
convinced..


Oya... I just gave you just one of the "any of our legends"... Christian Chukwu... Aka Chairman of Defence... Abi no be legend for ya abstract dictionary?? Loolll

Are you now convinced?? Looollll

I knew you just shot yourself in the foot...

well your handle says it all. there is no point arguing with u. i have long retired after you compared mikel to the likes of ronaldo. salut

TheSuperNerd:
If you are a realist, then you won't find it difficult grappling with Mikel's legend AND Absolute scintillating quality....

You think you are more realist than I am?... Lolll

Abegiii... You are just in denial....



Here's the link to Christian Chukwu's words on Mikel.....



Shebi u asked for the legends' view on Mikel among Nigeria's greatest... Here's one up there... Leader of Nigeria's 1980 Afcon winning side.... Or you wanna tell me Christian Chukwu is no legend abi?... Hahahahahahahahaha...

And hey! You need to collate facts... Don't be lazy... Without collating facts, people like you will never know about the likes of Eusebio, Jairzinho, Jean Tigana, Kenny Daglish, George best.... So go do deep facts findings...

You think you've seen all games and heard all there is to hear about players' quality.... You are the type being moved by media buzz... Go collate facts biko before you spill more ignorance like Chukwu is not one of our legends too....

And as for dictionary... You've shown you don't have at all going by your absolutely flawed definition of world-class...

Christian Chukwu..lol
I don't need to collate facts.. a world class player stands out without sentiments.. i've never like Messi... but i've always been a realist. in my opinion he is better than Ronaldo, but everytime I want Ronaldo to win the best player.. so sentiments no dey my dictionary my brother.. world class players stands out.. i dont see anything scintillating in Mikel's game..

TheSuperNerd:
What ratings?? Are you so lazy to dig up facts for yourself?? You claim to have followed football more than I do and yet you ask me for facts??

I have been screaming since the beginning of your absurd argument to furnish the thread with facts showing Mikel is overrated, non-relevant to the Eagles, and cannot dictate a game.... Have you done so??

I have given you a brief on his achievements, his performances, his summarised Class-Dossier and you ask for ratings. Loolll


Can't common sense tell you to go on some facts findings on all our Nigerian players of past, present and future and collate them unbiased into who is who in Nigeria's greatest.


Even Christian Chukwu calls Mikel one of Nigeria's best ever midfielders and GOATs and you here typing from wherever you are say otherwise.... You must be flogged.

Okay sir... please if you find any of our legends rank Mikel among the greats.. I will be convinced.. your ratings are personal..
Let me see facts.. any ratings online.. top 10 nigeria greatest.. please give me any reliable rating online that put Mikel up there..

TheSuperNerd:
Enough of this absurd argument mister.

The bolded alone cancels out all your arguments and displays you for what you are... A hater...

Mikel not among Nigeria's greatest of all time? Sir, permit me to say you are a joker.... Loolll

i dont care about roles or versatility.. please dont mention Mikel's name near any of those players.. you can do that in a thread like this.. granted.. not even in a serious discussion.. don't try it on TV.. in the midst of fellow Nigerians maybe.. Mikel is not even among Nigeria's greatest.

You are purely sentimental. Mikel has never been the best in Africa, and you are talking about world class. How many African players even make it to the world's best 11 yearly? please please please.. let's call a spade exactly what it is

so he was that outstanding in those tournaments? really.

TheSuperNerd:
Your argument was absurd from the moment you said Mikel cannot dictate a game's tempo accompanied by all else you said.

Who's comparing Mikel with messi? Looll or even Ronaldo? Can messi and Ronaldo play the Mikel roles?? Messi can play AMF or has it in him to play CMF as he ages but can he play DMF?

So why would I be comparing them..?

I was only showing you the absolute flaw in your definition of world class.... Coz going by your definition of "all the time"... Messi and Ronaldo failed and do not merit the world class tags. #SimpleAnalogy

You only point to WC 2014 for Mikel's under-performance. What about his debut at Afcon 2006?

What about his individual brilliance at Afcon 2008? Even though vogts tactics caused us.

What about his mesmerising displays at Afcon 2010?

What about his super midfield performances at Fifa Confederations cup 2013??

What about his awesome showing at Afcon 2013??

What about his Rio 2016 Olympics heroics as our midfield general??


What about his FA cup performances in 2007?? His first FA cup... and all other FA cups he won (he featured heavily as a super regular in the next two FA cups won by chelsea but had no major hand in the fourth he won with the club)

What about his world class performances against the best teams on earth in Barcelona, Bayern munich etc in the UCL seasons of 2010/2011 and even 2012/2013??

What about his first UCL performances in 2007, 2008, where he shone like a million stars in high profile games as a teenager and 20yr old against teams like Valencia at the mestalla??


And in African football, you mention world class without mentioning Mikel?? You need to have your memory refilled with mikel's career moments all over again...

Thank God for the internet...

of course not. Being realistic to expect a fiery encounter does not mean a display of inferiority. Even big teams like Germany for example will say good things about Nigeria prior to a match. The will study our strenghts and be cautions.. i've noticed that about european teams.. they respect us regardless. Respecting Cameroon does not mean losing confidence

Icon4s:
Definitely, you have to expect them to improve but that does not mean you should lose confidence in your own abilities.

Yes my definition is faulty because its impossible for any player to be at the best all the time.. but going by your own definition Mikel simply does not make the cut as a world class player.

TheSuperNerd:
You are getting the whole analogy thing mixed up.

Oruma impressed in just a handful against who?? Vs Okocha failing to impress against who and on what stage?


But here I gave you messi of 2010 WC and a Ronaldo of 2014 WC... Vs Mikel of 2014 WC

All three players "failed" according to your definition of a world class player..... Coz all had at least one bad tournament individually...

A world class player should show that
consistency and a high level all the time.


You see... When I defined world class many pages ago on this thread, I didn't use "all the time".... I rather used on the biggest stages or levels of the game "almost" super consistently....

So take that.

As a coach, I would assume my opponents will improve.. That's the right mindset to be to be best prepared.

Icon4s:
I am not saying they will not Improve. There is no way I could have made such a close ended statement.

You are the one assuming they will surely improve, and I told you they MAY not.

Improve or no improve, what matters most is the match day form.

hell no.. we are packed with a pretty good attack and midfield.. but someday a team will punish our defense.. I'm glad Rohr is working on that already.

Icon4s:
You undermine the quality in our Team.

That is just it.

my brother if you want to compare Mikel with playing legends like Messi and Ronaldo, I won't waste my time continuing with this argument. Mikel has never ever been the best in Africa, yes based on facts.. so please .. i'm done because you have taking your sentiments too far. Mind you Mikel is a good player.. and i'm not a hater.. but lets call a spade a spade.

TheSuperNerd:
You are getting the whole analogy thing mixed up.

Oruma impressed in just a handful against who?? Vs Okocha failing to impress against who and on what stage?


But here I gave you messi of 2010 WC and a Ronaldo of 2014 WC... Vs Mikel of 2014 WC

All three players "failed" according to your definition of a world class player..... Coz all had at least one bad tournament individually...

A world class player should show that
consistency and a high level all the time.


You see... When I defined world class many pages ago on this thread, I didn't use "all the time".... I rather used on the biggest stages or levels of the game "almost" super consistently....

So take that.

of course its not by how many games you play.. but your assumption is that they will not improve.. that's a risky path to take.

Icon4s:
Who is saying we dnt need games. And there is no way we can play as many games as Cameroun bc they are in FIFA confederations cup.

Besides, it is not by how many games you play.

i'm not underrating Nigeria.. we have young team that has potentials and is ahead in the qualifiers.

Icon4s:
Nobody is underrating the Cameroonians.
You are the one underrating Nigeria here.

There is no way any right thinking coach wouldn't have followed all the Cameroon's 2017 AFCON games. If I, as an analyst, can do that talk more of coaches of which that is their primary assignment.

I respect Cameroun but I dnt fear them. Simple.

All im saying is we need as much games as possible to tinker the team.
Cameroon is the best team in Africa right now.. accept it.. you said the same when we won AFCON '14.. so respect them until we beat them.
you can't just say we have more quality in our team. Let's take a humble approach..we are building.. but we must organize friendlies..

Icon4s:
Who is saying we should not plan to win.

And who is saying the Nigerian team too wouldn't have improved by then?

you have just done the opposite.. measure them with the same standard.
Just because Okocha failed to impress in a match for example you liken him to Oruma that impressed in just a handful.. perfect analogy

TheSuperNerd:
Say you just hate Mikel...

A world class player should show that consistency and a high level all the time. Where was Lionel Messi at the 2010 World Cup??

Where was Cristiano Ronaldo at the 2014 World cup??

Oga.... Just one tournament is all you point to..... Show us another please...

Which is why I like Rohr. Many of you if u were coaches you would be like our indigenous coaches who do you planning by boasting.. Rohr is doing is homework. I'm confident in him. He knows very well that we cant take them for granted. i trust him to treat them with caution.
Like our domestic coaches would say, "I've not seen our oponents play, but we will play our own game and beat them" - laughable

Icon4s:
I can tell you categorically that the Nigerian team has more quality than that Cameroonian team.