₦airaland Forum

70%. will barely make Top 100 in the world

daveP:
Lol I saw your talks on Mikel


From a honest point of view give him a rating over 100 to buttress your 'he is just above average' stance pls.

Fred Friday scored a brace. The only Nigerian to score last weekend?

http://spotkik.com/2017/02/07/supereagles-radar-fred-friday-fire-brace-simon-ndidi-bag-motm/

you can argue that they don't have more quality compared to Ivory Coast.. Quality don't always win games.
Let's make sure they cherish their AFCON cup but miss out on Russia.

Icon4s:
Nothing is certain my brother.

You are right about their over-achievement and whether they will maintain that standard is what we can't tell.

Nobody is saying the Cameroonians will not or cannot improve . They are African champions and we have to respect them for that. And we really have to put everything in place to defeat them . What I am against is dwarfing Nigeria before them. I dnt agree they have more quality than our team.

thanks my bro!

good to see u too

joseph1013:
You don't rate Christian "Chairman" Chukwu? Why?

Good to see you on this thread. Welcome to the house!

no I meant when you see a player as world class, but he is actually just above average.
make we leave matter

forgiveness:
What you mean by overated? Are you meaning he no sabi play?

just seeing this.. let me pay homage to the nairaland veterans first.. at least you have a stake here

TheSuperNerd:
Fantastic observation.... Looollll

Sir Mickael2 did the same thing.....

Sir Joebie is now making lightening strike twice in the same thread.... Looollll

Mikel..... Wetin u do these people naa?? Looolll

yours is well noted as well football facts nerd. lol

TheSuperNerd:
Looollll.... The most absurd argument ever....

What's there in my moniker? Scared at how super it is and how it makes you shiver and makes you see in the ignorance in your arguments? Loll

I long gave up myself from the moment you said.... Mikel is overrated, can't dictate a game's tempo and is irrelevant to the Super Eagles.

Schooling you was for the sake of others viewing and for the right info to be re-emphasized... Not for you.



So uhmm... So long okay, your "realism" is well noted mister. Have a nice day.

okay you win.

TheSuperNerd:
Sir Joebie.... Oya see ya words...

...please if you find any of our legends
rank Mikel among the greats.. I will be
convinced..


Oya... I just gave you just one of the "any of our legends"... Christian Chukwu... Aka Chairman of Defence... Abi no be legend for ya abstract dictionary?? Loolll

Are you now convinced?? Looollll

I knew you just shot yourself in the foot...

well your handle says it all. there is no point arguing with u. i have long retired after you compared mikel to the likes of ronaldo. salut

TheSuperNerd:
If you are a realist, then you won't find it difficult grappling with Mikel's legend AND Absolute scintillating quality....

You think you are more realist than I am?... Lolll

Abegiii... You are just in denial....



Here's the link to Christian Chukwu's words on Mikel.....



Shebi u asked for the legends' view on Mikel among Nigeria's greatest... Here's one up there... Leader of Nigeria's 1980 Afcon winning side.... Or you wanna tell me Christian Chukwu is no legend abi?... Hahahahahahahahaha...

And hey! You need to collate facts... Don't be lazy... Without collating facts, people like you will never know about the likes of Eusebio, Jairzinho, Jean Tigana, Kenny Daglish, George best.... So go do deep facts findings...

You think you've seen all games and heard all there is to hear about players' quality.... You are the type being moved by media buzz... Go collate facts biko before you spill more ignorance like Chukwu is not one of our legends too....

And as for dictionary... You've shown you don't have at all going by your absolutely flawed definition of world-class...

Christian Chukwu..lol
I don't need to collate facts.. a world class player stands out without sentiments.. i've never like Messi... but i've always been a realist. in my opinion he is better than Ronaldo, but everytime I want Ronaldo to win the best player.. so sentiments no dey my dictionary my brother.. world class players stands out.. i dont see anything scintillating in Mikel's game..

TheSuperNerd:
What ratings?? Are you so lazy to dig up facts for yourself?? You claim to have followed football more than I do and yet you ask me for facts??

I have been screaming since the beginning of your absurd argument to furnish the thread with facts showing Mikel is overrated, non-relevant to the Eagles, and cannot dictate a game.... Have you done so??

I have given you a brief on his achievements, his performances, his summarised Class-Dossier and you ask for ratings. Loolll


Can't common sense tell you to go on some facts findings on all our Nigerian players of past, present and future and collate them unbiased into who is who in Nigeria's greatest.


Even Christian Chukwu calls Mikel one of Nigeria's best ever midfielders and GOATs and you here typing from wherever you are say otherwise.... You must be flogged.

Okay sir... please if you find any of our legends rank Mikel among the greats.. I will be convinced.. your ratings are personal..
Let me see facts.. any ratings online.. top 10 nigeria greatest.. please give me any reliable rating online that put Mikel up there..

TheSuperNerd:
Enough of this absurd argument mister.

The bolded alone cancels out all your arguments and displays you for what you are... A hater...

Mikel not among Nigeria's greatest of all time? Sir, permit me to say you are a joker.... Loolll

i dont care about roles or versatility.. please dont mention Mikel's name near any of those players.. you can do that in a thread like this.. granted.. not even in a serious discussion.. don't try it on TV.. in the midst of fellow Nigerians maybe.. Mikel is not even among Nigeria's greatest.

You are purely sentimental. Mikel has never been the best in Africa, and you are talking about world class. How many African players even make it to the world's best 11 yearly? please please please.. let's call a spade exactly what it is

so he was that outstanding in those tournaments? really.

TheSuperNerd:
Your argument was absurd from the moment you said Mikel cannot dictate a game's tempo accompanied by all else you said.

Who's comparing Mikel with messi? Looll or even Ronaldo? Can messi and Ronaldo play the Mikel roles?? Messi can play AMF or has it in him to play CMF as he ages but can he play DMF?

So why would I be comparing them..?

I was only showing you the absolute flaw in your definition of world class.... Coz going by your definition of "all the time"... Messi and Ronaldo failed and do not merit the world class tags. #SimpleAnalogy

You only point to WC 2014 for Mikel's under-performance. What about his debut at Afcon 2006?

What about his individual brilliance at Afcon 2008? Even though vogts tactics caused us.

What about his mesmerising displays at Afcon 2010?

What about his super midfield performances at Fifa Confederations cup 2013??

What about his awesome showing at Afcon 2013??

What about his Rio 2016 Olympics heroics as our midfield general??


What about his FA cup performances in 2007?? His first FA cup... and all other FA cups he won (he featured heavily as a super regular in the next two FA cups won by chelsea but had no major hand in the fourth he won with the club)

What about his world class performances against the best teams on earth in Barcelona, Bayern munich etc in the UCL seasons of 2010/2011 and even 2012/2013??

What about his first UCL performances in 2007, 2008, where he shone like a million stars in high profile games as a teenager and 20yr old against teams like Valencia at the mestalla??


And in African football, you mention world class without mentioning Mikel?? You need to have your memory refilled with mikel's career moments all over again...

Thank God for the internet...

of course not. Being realistic to expect a fiery encounter does not mean a display of inferiority. Even big teams like Germany for example will say good things about Nigeria prior to a match. The will study our strenghts and be cautions.. i've noticed that about european teams.. they respect us regardless. Respecting Cameroon does not mean losing confidence

Icon4s:
Definitely, you have to expect them to improve but that does not mean you should lose confidence in your own abilities.

Yes my definition is faulty because its impossible for any player to be at the best all the time.. but going by your own definition Mikel simply does not make the cut as a world class player.

TheSuperNerd:
You are getting the whole analogy thing mixed up.

Oruma impressed in just a handful against who?? Vs Okocha failing to impress against who and on what stage?


But here I gave you messi of 2010 WC and a Ronaldo of 2014 WC... Vs Mikel of 2014 WC

All three players "failed" according to your definition of a world class player..... Coz all had at least one bad tournament individually...

A world class player should show that
consistency and a high level all the time.


You see... When I defined world class many pages ago on this thread, I didn't use "all the time".... I rather used on the biggest stages or levels of the game "almost" super consistently....

So take that.

As a coach, I would assume my opponents will improve.. That's the right mindset to be to be best prepared.

Icon4s:
I am not saying they will not Improve. There is no way I could have made such a close ended statement.

You are the one assuming they will surely improve, and I told you they MAY not.

Improve or no improve, what matters most is the match day form.

hell no.. we are packed with a pretty good attack and midfield.. but someday a team will punish our defense.. I'm glad Rohr is working on that already.

Icon4s:
You undermine the quality in our Team.

That is just it.

my brother if you want to compare Mikel with playing legends like Messi and Ronaldo, I won't waste my time continuing with this argument. Mikel has never ever been the best in Africa, yes based on facts.. so please .. i'm done because you have taking your sentiments too far. Mind you Mikel is a good player.. and i'm not a hater.. but lets call a spade a spade.

TheSuperNerd:
You are getting the whole analogy thing mixed up.

Oruma impressed in just a handful against who?? Vs Okocha failing to impress against who and on what stage?


But here I gave you messi of 2010 WC and a Ronaldo of 2014 WC... Vs Mikel of 2014 WC

All three players "failed" according to your definition of a world class player..... Coz all had at least one bad tournament individually...

A world class player should show that
consistency and a high level all the time.


You see... When I defined world class many pages ago on this thread, I didn't use "all the time".... I rather used on the biggest stages or levels of the game "almost" super consistently....

So take that.

of course its not by how many games you play.. but your assumption is that they will not improve.. that's a risky path to take.

Icon4s:
Who is saying we dnt need games. And there is no way we can play as many games as Cameroun bc they are in FIFA confederations cup.

Besides, it is not by how many games you play.

i'm not underrating Nigeria.. we have young team that has potentials and is ahead in the qualifiers.

Icon4s:
Nobody is underrating the Cameroonians.
You are the one underrating Nigeria here.

There is no way any right thinking coach wouldn't have followed all the Cameroon's 2017 AFCON games. If I, as an analyst, can do that talk more of coaches of which that is their primary assignment.

I respect Cameroun but I dnt fear them. Simple.

All im saying is we need as much games as possible to tinker the team.
Cameroon is the best team in Africa right now.. accept it.. you said the same when we won AFCON '14.. so respect them until we beat them.
you can't just say we have more quality in our team. Let's take a humble approach..we are building.. but we must organize friendlies..

Icon4s:
Who is saying we should not plan to win.

And who is saying the Nigerian team too wouldn't have improved by then?

you have just done the opposite.. measure them with the same standard.
Just because Okocha failed to impress in a match for example you liken him to Oruma that impressed in just a handful.. perfect analogy

TheSuperNerd:
Say you just hate Mikel...

A world class player should show that consistency and a high level all the time. Where was Lionel Messi at the 2010 World Cup??

Where was Cristiano Ronaldo at the 2014 World cup??

Oga.... Just one tournament is all you point to..... Show us another please...

Which is why I like Rohr. Many of you if u were coaches you would be like our indigenous coaches who do you planning by boasting.. Rohr is doing is homework. I'm confident in him. He knows very well that we cant take them for granted. i trust him to treat them with caution.
Like our domestic coaches would say, "I've not seen our oponents play, but we will play our own game and beat them" - laughable

Icon4s:
I can tell you categorically that the Nigerian team has more quality than that Cameroonian team.

Maybe not..but we have to plan to win. We can't assume they wont improve. I'm only stating a fact about Keshi's team

Icon4s:
So you think the Cameroonian team will surely improve after this AFCON huh-huh?

NONE!

Icon4s:
Joebie, talking about world class, name a world class player in that Cameroonian team.

We are saying almost the same thing. However this is where we differ. Many other players have not had their chance like Mikel in that role. Mikel has been around for a long time now.. and I can only say he had stand out performances in only a few games of those many matches. There is no stiff competition in the SE right now even in that position, that doesnt make him world class. Ndidi will play the CMF role better, but that is open to debate because he is a new player and that will be proven with time. Even with the scarce competition in the SE I can only pin point a few games where Mikel posted great performances.. My world class players are not like that.. at least in my standard.. I don't know about you. Finidi clearly was. he was rated the best number 7 oftentimes. Yekini did not prove it at the world stage. but definitely was Africa's best at a time, and he showed that consistently. Please let's raise the bar high.. We can have the likes of George Weah in future.. definitely not Mikel

TheSuperNerd:
By who exactly?? And I speak of that CMF role.... Not the no.10 role... Who can replace Mikel "super-comforably" (note the word "super".

Kelechi Nwakali?? Alex Iwobi?? John Ogu?? Who??
..................
Our team is young and the only world class players I can point to are Mikel and...... Oops... Just Mikel.

Victor Moses' super form and class just began this season. He needs to repeat same for the next few years to become fully world class... But he does function like a world class player now BUT I CANNOT TERM HIM WORLD CLASS YET as much as I would love to to show our Super Eagles isn't a bunch of rag-tags...


In Kelechi Iheanacho, Alex Iwobi, Wilfred Ndidi and even Isaac Success... We have potential world class players...

In Troost Ekong, we have a defender rated as one of the very best (the top 5-10) in scandinavian europe before he joined Gent...

In Wilfred Ndidi, we have a fast-rising super performer in the DMF role. A player who floored Pogba in the EPL when their teams clashed. Onazi should be scared....

Our team is "NOT THERE YET" (Cc: Sir Icon4s)

It's a whole new generation...

I am sure back in 1990 and 1992, you wouldn't have termed the likes of Yekini and Finidi as world class.

smh.. I have nothing more to say lol

TheGoodJoe:

A player who is not World Class can not do what Mikel did against Spain. Mikel set the whole world talking. Even Bleacherreport did a full article after the game about Mikel. Extravagance is not all the ten role is about. Mikel brings a class of maturity and intelligence you can hardly find in the game. He is a pure genius. If not the faith Big Boss Keshi had in Mikel we would not even have this discussion. And, Yes, Mikel is among the all time greats of the Super Eagles. Why do you think Okocha retired early when he still had so much football in him? He trusted the young Mikel to carry the touch on and the young man delivered.

Say you just like Mikel. I personally thought he did well in the confed cup.. but a world class player should show that consistency and a high level all the time. Where was he at the World Cup? I'm sorry he is a good player.. yes versatile.. but not world class. and someone wants to tell me to come with the facts..are what you stated facts.. a handful of games to buttress your point?.. you are purely sentimental. If legends in the game are asked to name their top 10, i'm sure Mikel will hardly be mentioned.

TheSuperNerd:
Mikel is actually World class.... Name any other African midfielder today who can stand in Mikel's class apart from Yaya Toure.... Who?? Wanyama?? Ndidi?? Kessie?? Who naa?? Siani?? Kouyate?? Who??

And Mikel is not limited to the no.10 role... He also plays as the CMF of the team... The major engine room... Sometimes, he is a deep-lying playmaker like we saw at Afcon 2013.

Mikel is practically a midfield boss. Against Xavi and Iniesta at Fifa confed cup 2013, he was the boss on the day. Did you watch that game?? Na wa oooo....


@first bolded... If you've been following this thread, you'll know how long I have been following... Clue: Indomiegeneration at your service...

Football analysis is not in years of followership alone but in a deep-seated knowledge of the game that spans generations......


@second bolded.... Hahahahahahaha... Mikel is not just in top 10, he is in top 3-5.... #fact If you don't like it... Go tell Odegbami, Ehilegbu, Henry Nwosu, And co to pick up their boots and start playing again so as to surpass Mikel's legend...

you have just implied he is second fiddle to those names you mentioned.. And we are talking Africa.. please.. he is nowhere near world class.. I'm not saying he is not good

TheGoodJoe:

That is you but we are talking about a player who has stood out in recent years in African football. Nominated for the African footballer of the year and lost it to Yaya Toure who was in blistering form. We are talking of a player that stood out in the AFCON against Cote I'voire with the likes of Yaya Toure, Drogba and Gervinho on the field. Mikel's nicking the ball off Yaya towards the end of the match was one of the highlights of the tournament. We are not even talking about his Olympics performance.

Never said he is not relevant.. but the way the Super Eagles are building and we are lacking world class players until we prove otherwise. The youths definitely have the potential to become one in future. But like I implied, Mikel is replaceable even right now.

TheSuperNerd:
It is not about Agreement... It is about Facts...

Show us facts showing that Mikel is overrated and not relevant to the Super Eagles or have never been relevant. We are waiting for you...

Some arguments have no absolutes so can attract different stands and facts stated from various angles.

Some other arguments are based on what we fancy and a bit of bias.

Some others are based on generic opinions and many many more.


But this, on Mikel is an absurd argument.

He cannot dictate is relative.. take note that i'm making a comparison here.. For example I could have had other number 10s in mind when I said that.. e.g Okocha etc. And by overrated I mean he is not world class like you guys are making it seem. Please can you tell me how long you have been following the Super Eagles? Are you saying you can mention Mikel as among our all time greats, say, all time top 10?

TheSuperNerd:
Then show us the logics in your saying he cannot dictate a game's tempo, and that he can be benched by ndidi or that he is overrated...

Show us with facts... Show us with reference to his performances in the Green and White.

I only said he is overrated. I never said he is not a good player. I don't dislike him.. logic over sentiments for me.

TheSuperNerd:
It's obvious what your agenda on this thread is okay... So save yourself the stress.

Mikel not among our all-time greats??... Lolll... Oga... Just say this, "I hate Mikel, he's not good jare... Wetin una see in that lad sef"

That way we would not be deceiving ourselves thinking we are having a healthy discourse on Mikel coz we are not... You just don't fancy the guy. Period.

ok my brother.. but remember not everyone will agree with you, and they are not necessarily ignorant. for me i take it as you have a different opinion.. i can now move on

TheSuperNerd:
Saying your comments reek of IGNORANCE IS NOT AN INSULT mister....

You don't think you can just jump in here and start rambling without Facts and stats about Mikel's non-relevance to the Super Eagles and you think some of us would just keep quiet.

So mister... Your comment is Ignorance-laden and there's no insult intended in stating what is truthful about your comments.