₦airaland Forum

Seun:
Hello,

I'm posing these questions to spiritual folks in the house:
- What is a soul?
- How do you know that souls exist?
- Do animals - dogs, cats, worms, flies, mosquitos, lice, chimps - have souls?
- If they do, what are the implications?
- Why is it ok to butcher them?
- Will there be animals in heaven and hell?
- What does a human being have that animals don't have?

Thanks a million.

@bold, God's likeness

Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:....

WONDERFUL

AWESOME

[size=16pt]Terminology of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses[/size]

by Matt Slick

Words are the tools of evangelism. With Cults, definitions are the tools you need to sharpen. It is vitally important, especially with Mormons, to know the meanings of the words they use. A Mormon can say he believes in the Trinity and salvation by grace but what he means is that he believes in the godhead, which is an office held by three separate gods, and that resurrection is a free gift to everyone. With J.W.'s, for example, the Holy Spirit is not a person but a force like radar. So, if you don't know their definitions you'll only be talking in circles.

Know their definitions and you will be a much more effective witness for Christ.

LDS = Latter-day Saints or Mormons. JW = Jehovah's Witnesses.

BIBLE

LDS - The Bible is correct only as far as it is correctly translated. It is basically trustworthy. It is the only one of the four standard works (Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price) that is not considered infallible.
JW - The Bible is the inerrant word of God. (Be careful. Though the J.W. organization believes in the inspired Word of God it has changed the Bible to support its own theological bias.)
Bible - the Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God (2 Timothy 3:16).

SALVATION

LDS - Simple bodily resurrection. It does not simply mean forgiveness of sins. Jesus died for universal resurrection.
JW - Earned by good works in cooperation with Jesus' sacrifice.
Bible - Forgiveness of sins with the result of a present new life and in the future eternal life with God (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Rom. 6:23; Rom. 10:9-10).

HEAVEN

LDS - Divided into three Kingdoms: Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial. The Celestial is for perfect Mormons, the Terrestrial is for moral people and lukewarm LDS, and the Telestial Kingdom is for everyone else.
JW - The place that God dwells. Christians do not go to heaven except for 144,000 elite JW's.
Bible - The dwelling place of God (1 Kings 8:30). Christians go to heaven.

KINGDOM OF GOD

LDS - Celestial heaven.
JW - God's "theocratic" rule on earth, his "system of things."
Bible - All the believers of Christ (Matt. 13:41-43).

HOLY GHOST

LDS - "A spirit man. He can only be at one place at one time... " (Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, p. 359.) The Holy Ghost is contrasted with the Spirit of God which is the influence of the Godhead that fills the immensity of space which enables God to know what is going on. It is likened to electricity."
JW - God's active force. He is not alive, but a force like radar.
Bible - Third person of the Trinity. Same as Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4).

ETERNAL LIFE

LDS - Exaltation (exaltation to a Mormon means obtaining Godhood) in the Celestial Kingdom.
JW - Eternal life on paradise earth - for JW's only.
Bible - Forgiveness of sins and life eternal with God (John 17:3; Rom. 6:23).

GODHEAD

LDS - An office held by three separate Gods: the Father who is a god; Jesus who is a god; and the Holy Ghost who is a god.
JW - Consists of only one person: the Father.
Bible - God Himself, not an office. Three persons in one God. A Trinity: The Father; the Son; and the Holy Spirit.

JESUS

LDS - Spirit brother of Satan. A god in the Godhead. He is Jehovah of the O.T. compared to Elohim being the Father. He was the first spirit child to be born to the Father and Mother gods.
JW - Jesus is not God, but Michael the Archangel who became a man and then stopped being a man and became an angel again.
Bible - Jesus is God, second person of the Trinity (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9).

ATONEMENT

LDS - The sacrifice of Christ that made resurrection possible along with the possibility of our earning forgiveness of sins.
JW - The atonement makes possible our earning salvation.
Bible - The substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf. He died for our sins (1 Pet. 2:24; 1 John 2:2).

PRE-EXISTENCE

LDS - We existed in heaven with God our (literal) Father before we became human.
JW - No pre-existence.
Bible - We did not exist before we came to earth (1 Cor. 15:46).

GOSPEL

LDS - The laws and the ordinances of the Mormon church.
JW - The teachings of Jesus, the kingdom and kingdom work (it is general and vague).
Bible - The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for our sins (1 Cor. 15:1-4).



As you can see, some definitions are quite different. Some are very similar. The better you know them the better able you will be prepared to "give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have" (1 Pet. 3:15).

[size=16pt]Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies[/size]

by Matt Slick

The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct Biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah's coming kingdom.

If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God's Word, then what they say should prove to be true and especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, "Those are taken out of context," or "They didn't claim to be the prophet of God," or "The light is getting brighter, and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now," etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses' literature.

Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prophecy and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.

In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.

IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"--"So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21).

1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
1899 " . . . the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

A JW might say that the organization is still learning. If that is so, then how can they trust what they are taught now by the Watchtower? Will what they are being taught now change also?



A true prophet of God won't err in prophesying. Only a false prophet does. The Jehovah's Witness organization, that claims to be a prophet of God, is really a false prophet. Jesus warned us by saying, "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible" (Matt. 24:24).

https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

However those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not , and do lie,
do twist the Bible scriptures.

[size=18pt]Bad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness Bible, the New World Translation (NWT).[/size]

Gen. 1:1-2--"In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters," (New World Translation, emphasis added).
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive--the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of " . . . the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters" to say " . . . and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."
Zech. 12:10--In this verse God is speaking and says, "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son," (Zech. 12:10, NASB).
The Jehovah's Witnesses change the word "me" to "the one" so that it says in their Bible, " . . . they will look upon the one whom they have pierced . . . "
Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then Zech. 12:10 would present obvious problems--so they changed it.
John 1:1--They mistranslate the verse as "a god." Again, it is because they deny who Jesus is and must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Jehovah's Witness version is this: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
Col. 1:15-17--The word "other" is inserted 4 times. It is not in the original Greek--nor is it implied. This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things and implying that He is created.
There are two Greek words for "other": heteros and allos. The first means another of a different kind, and the second means another of the same kind. Neither is used at all in this section of Scripture. The Jehovah's Witness have changed the Bible to make it fit their aberrant theology.
Heb. 1:6--In this verse they translate the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, as "obeisance." Obeisance is a word that means to honor, show respect--even bow down before someone. Since Jesus, to them, is created, then He cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2, 11, 14:33, 28:9.
Heb. 1:8--This is a verse where God the Father is calling Jesus God: "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.'" Since the Jehovah's Witnesses don't agree with that, they have changed the Bible, yet again, to agree with their theology. They have translated the verse as " . . . God is your throne . . . " The problem with the Jehovah's Witness translation is that this verse is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which, from the Hebrew, can only be translated as " . . . Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom." To justify their New Testament translation, they actually changed the OT verse to agree with their theology, too!

The NWT translation is not a good translation. It has changed the text to suit its own theological bias in many places.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/bad-translations-jehovahs-witness-bible-new-world-translation

RikoduoSennin:
Do you mean, every individual who said 'I am' in the bible is God?

Those who have been blinded cannot understand

See how you like twisting Bible scriptures: Revelation 1:1a "The revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM to show to his servants the things that must soon take place....."

I didn't twist Bible scripture but copy and paste it direct from the Bible
when I talk off Bible scripture in my own words I talk acurately,
God in that verse is the Father and Jesus is the Son----Duh

johnw74: Yes the Father gave the Son a revelation,
you have seen where the Father called the Son "God"

Don't forget that Jesus has a God before, during and After he left earth! (Note: According to you, even while he was on earth as a man he considered himself to be God- So no excuse accepted)

Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

In another thread, those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses
do not worship Jesus Christ.

In this thread Roman Catholic worship His mother, even her statue.



more statues of mary

statue of mary

Johannes Greber
The Watchtower Society has appealed to a little-known Bible translation by Johannes Greber, a former Catholic priest, for support of their a god rendering of John 1:1 in the New World Translation. Greber's translation came about through contact with the spirit world. In fact, his wife, who was a spirit medium, helped him with this translation:Johannes Greber

At times he [Greber] was given the correct answers in large illuminated letter and words passing before his eyes. Other times he was given the correct answers during prayer meetings. His wife, a medium of God's Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answer from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber.(15)

Strange as it may sound the Watchtower Society denounced Johannes Greber's involvement in Spiritism and his translation as coming from demons in their Feb. 15, 1956 The Watchtower, p. 111. But for many years afterward the Watchtower Society still continued to cite his demon-produced translation for support(16). So knowingly, the Watchtower Society appealed to a Bible translation many times, which came from demons, for support of their own New World Translation. What the demons were communicating through Greber's translation is still being vastly spread today by the New World Translation.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/nwt.htm

[size=14pt]The Gospel[/size]

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" (Gal. 1:8-9, NIV)
Verses 8 and 9 here in Galatians are a self-declarative statement that you must believe the gospel. The gospel message which in its entirety is that Jesus is God in flesh, who died for sins, rose from the dead, and freely gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe.
Furthermore, it would not be possible to present the gospel properly without declaring that Jesus is God in flesh per John 1:1, 14, 10:30-33, 20:28, Col. 2:9, Phil. 2:5-8, Heb. 1:8.
1 Cor. 15:1-4 defines what the gospel is: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures," (NIV).
Within these verses are the essentials: Christ is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14, 10:30-33, 20:28, Col. 2:9), Salvation is received by faith (John 1:12, Rom. 10:9-10), therefore, it is by grace, and the resurrection is mentioned in verse 4. Therefore, this gospel message automatically includes the essentials.

https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity

[size=14pt]John 17:3, "The only true God."[/size]

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent," (John 17:3).

The Jehovah's Witnesses, among others, cite John 17:3 as a proof text to deny the Trinity and claim that Jesus Christ is not God. They reason is that if Jesus were God, then He would not have called the Father, "the only true God." If the Father is the only true God, then it must require that Jesus cannot be God.

First of all, it is not proper to make a theological doctrine out of one verse. Of this the Jehovah's Witnesses are sometimes guilty. Nevertheless, they do tend to take one or two verses on a subject and use them to interpret all the others. Instead of getting a balanced position, they arrive at an interpretation that is in agreement with their theological position. This is called "proof-texting" and is something the Jehovah's Witnesses do frequently.

Second, the context of Jesus' comment was that He was speaking as a man to His God. Remember, Jesus is both God and man, second person of the Trinity, and the Word made flesh (John 1:1, 14). Since He was both divine and man, as a man, He would naturally and properly say that His Father was the only True God. He was not denying His own divinity but affirming the Trueness of God as was done in the OT: 'And now, O Lord our God, deliver us from his hand that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that Thou alone, Lord, art God,' (Isaiah 37:20). The truth is that Jesus was a man made under the Law (Gal. 4:4), and as a man, He would be subject to God. Only in this case, Jesus was subject to the Father. That is why Jesus called the Father the only true God, but it is not a phrase that excludes Christ, for Christ Himself said, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58) and did not deny being called God by Thomas in John 20:28.

Third, John 17:3 must be examined in the light of the totality of Scripture. We see that Jesus is called God in John 1:1, 14, 8:58, 20:28, Col. 2:9, and Heb. 1:8. Therefore, John 17:3 cannot be interpreted in a way that disagrees with other Scriptures. Of course, some people simply state that John 17:3 cannot allow for Jesus being God, but the simple fact is that Jesus is called God by God and others. Therefore, the whole of Scripture must be harmonized.

Fourth, this verse reflects the sonship of Jesus. The Father and the Son have a unique relationship. Jesus is the eternal Son. The terms Father and Son denote a relationship which is why God is called the God of the Son in 2 Cor. 11:31.

Fifth, Jesus identifies Himself with the Father. Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in Jesus (John 10:38). Jesus is one with the Father (John 10:30). They are not divided in essence. So, in one sense Jesus is in the Father, and if the Father is the only true God, then Jesus is the True God. Also, in 1 John 5:20, Jesus is called the only true God: "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding, in order that we might know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." Jesus is not contradicting the Word.

Sixth, if we are to be consistent using the Jehovah's Witness logic that the Father is the only true God, then the following verses present a problem--if we use their logic.

"For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ," (Jude 4, NASB).
Does this mean that the Father is not our Master and Lord? Of course not. Yet, Jesus is called our only Master and Lord.
"There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him," (John 1:9-10).
Here we see Jesus being called the true light. Does this mean that the Father is not the true light? If not, then we have both the Son and the Father being the true light.
"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone," (Mark 10:18, NASB).
Does this verse mean that Jesus is not good? Jesus said that only God was good. Then, if we use the Jehovah's Witness logic, Jesus is not good. Of course, that doesn't make any sense.
"I, even I, am the Lord [YHWH]; And there is no savior besides Me," (Isaiah 43:11).
We know that Jesus is the Savior. Again, according to Witness logic, Jesus could not be the Savior since the Bible tells us that YHWH is the only Savior.
"Blessed be the Lord God, the God of Israel, Who alone works wonders," (Psalm 72:18, NASB).
Jesus performed many miracles. But if the Lord [YHWH] is the one who alone performs wonders, how then can it be that Jesus also?
"Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the Lord [YHWH], am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone,'" (Isaiah 44:24, NASB).
According to John 1:3 and Col. 1:16-17, Jesus made all things. With JW logic you would have a problem.
Col. 1:16-17 says, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created by Him and for Him. 17And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together," (NASB). Since God is alone created all things, how could Jesus have done it? For more on this subject see the JW paper on Col. 1:16-17.

As we can see, we cannot simply make a doctrine out of one verse. To do so is to invite error, and it only serves to use the Bible to validate preconceived ideas about doctrine.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-173-only-true-god

[size=14pt]The Resurrection of Christ[/size]

"And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith," (1 Cor. 15:14). "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins," (1 Cor. 15:17).
To deny the physical resurrection is to deny that Jesus' work was a satisfactory offering to God the Father. It would mean that Jesus was corrupt and needed to stay in the grave. But, he did not stay because His sacrifice was perfect.
These verses clearly state that if you say that Jesus did not rise from the dead (in the same body He died in--John 2:19-21), then your faith is useless.
The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Muslims deny Jesus' physical resurrection. Therefore, they are outside of Christianity.

https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity

JMAN05:
Funny guy. Ur little knowledge can't figure it out. Just enjoy d petty knowledge.

I have little knowledge, but

I know that Jesus Christ is God
I know that Jesus Christ the Saviour is to be worshipped
I know that Christians are saved by Grace
I know that Jesus Christ was resurrected bodily
I know so much more that those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, and who will never know until it is to late, until they are about to be thrown into the Lake of fire.

johnw74: Truly, the Word is God

Truly the word God in John 1:1 comes from the greek "theos"

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God(theos), and the Word was God(theos).

JMANO5, who calls himself Jehovahs Witnesses, but is not, and does lie,
say's the quoted verse is "petty knowledge" and dismisses "theos" being for both God and the Word
and in fact his church of satan changes that verse to say "theos" means "a god" when referring to the Word Jesus Christ, and 'theos" means God when referring to the Father.

Who is antichrist, but he who denies the Lord.

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

John has shown that the Father(theos) and the Son(theos) is God, antichrist denies the Father and the Son.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie,
are in fact
antichrist
the church of satan
the modern day pharisee hypocrites


Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Mar_12:14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, have a lot of knowlwdge-false knowledge of things they have been told to believe, instead of studying the bible for themselves without any pre taught false doctrines.
Their false knowledge benefits them nothing at all.

JMAN05: Funny guy. Ur little knowledge can't figure it out. Just enjoy d petty knowledge.

Continue

Is it legitimate to translate the verse this way? Yes it is because it is consistent with Hebrew dictionaries which tell us that the word, shachah, can mean worship, bow down, obeisance, reverence, fall down, crouch, prostrate oneself, (Enhanced Strong's Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995). See the same thing stated in The Abridged Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew-English Lexicon of the Old Testament, Richard Whitaker, Editor, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997). This would easily demonstrate that David was not being worshipped. Instead, homage was being paid to him as was also being paid to God--though, of course, there is no confusion about who is God and who is not. As if that weren't enough, the Jehovah's Witnesses own New World Translation translates the Hebrew word, shachah, in 1 Chron. 29:20 as "prostrate."

"And David went on to say to all the congregation: "Bless, now, Jehovah YOUR God." And all the congregation proceeded to bless Jehovah the God of their forefathers and bow low and prostrate themselves to Jehovah and to the king," (NWT).

Therefore, the Jehovah's Witnesses own bible recognizes that King David though greatly revered by the people was not worshipped. Instead, both God and David were revered by the people by prostration and not worship.

Let's assume the Jehovah's Witness argument for a moment. Even if we were to say that Jesus could be honored the same way that David was honored--in a lesser sense than God--this does not mean that Jesus is not God. Remember, Jesus is both God and man. As a man, people would bow down to Him. As God, He was worshipped. In addition, it is said of Jesus that He knew all things (John 21:17) and that He would be with the disciples wherever they went (Matt. 28:20), etc. He is called God by Thomas in John 20:28 and by the Father in Heb. 1:8. The divinity of Christ is well attested to in the New Testament, and only the Jehovah's Witnesses, with their preconceived idea--that Jesus is not divine--will twist the Scriptures to suit their own needs.

The Bible says, "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God . . . and the word became flesh and dwelt among us," (John 1:1, 14). Clearly, Jesus is the Word made flesh, and as it says in Col. 2:9, all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus. Jesus is not a created being but the creator of all things (Col. 1:16-17) just as God alone is the creator of all (Isaiah 44:24). He is both God and man. This is called the Hypostatic Union.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong, and their continued attempt to dethrone Christ will continue to fail as the truth of God's Word is revealed.

https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/1-chron-2920-Jesus-worshipped-same-way-david-was

[size=14pt]1 Chron. 29:20, is Jesus worshipped the same way David was?[/size]

worship greekThe Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is a created being and is not worthy of worship. Christians counter that Jesus is worshipped in the New Testament and cite verses such as Matt. 2:2, 11, 14:33, 28:9, John 9:35-38, and Heb. 1:6. The Witnesses acknowledge that at times people bowed down before Jesus the same way they would to God the Father, but they deny that Jesus was worshipped. In fact, in the New World Translation produced by the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, is always translated as "obeisance" whenever it refers to Christ but is translated as worship whenever it refers to the Father. The witnesses select which way to translate the word, proskuneo, depending on two things: who is being addressed and what their theology tells them. So, the debate continues. The Witnesses deny Jesus' deity, and the Christians rightfully proclaim it. Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.

In an attempt to prove their position, Jehovah's Witnesses sometimes quote 1 Chron. 29:20 which says in the King James, "And David said to all the congregation, now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king," (KJV). By quoting the King James, the Jehovah's Witness will try to establish that since King David was worshipped along with God, it means that David was worshipped to a lesser degree than God. Therefore, they say that it follows that Jesus can also be worshipped to a lesser degree than God in the same way that King David was, and it would not require that Jesus be divine.

First of all, 1 Chron. 29:20 obviously cannot mean that David was worshipped equally with God. This would be blasphemy. Therefore, it is best to translate the Hebrew word, shachah, as "pay homage" or "bow down" as is attested to by other translations.

"Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed low and did homage to the Lord and to the king," (NASB).
"Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king," (NIV).
"Then David said to all the assembly, "Now bless the Lord your God." So all the assembly blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and prostrated themselves before the Lord and the king," (NKJV).
"Then David said to all the assembly, "Bless the Lord your God." And all the assembly blessed the Lord, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the Lord and to the king," (ESV).

https://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/1-chron-2920-jesus-worshipped-same-way-david-was

[size=14pt]Salvation by Grace[/size]

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast," (Eph. 2:8-9, NIV).
"You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace," (Gal. 5:4).
This verse and its context plainly teach that if you believe that you are saved by faith and works, then you are not saved at all. This is a common error in the cults. Because they have a false Jesus, they have a false doctrine of salvation. (Read Rom. 3-5 and Gal. 3-5).
You cannot add to the work of God. Gal. 2:21 says, "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (NIV)
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
"However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).
"Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law," (Gal. 3:21).
Salvation is not universal resurrection as Mormonism would declare. Rather, it is the saving from God's righteous judgment. Furthermore, salvation, which is the forgiveness of sins, is accomplished by faith alone (Rom. 4:1-11).
Roman Catholicism denies salvation by grace through faith alone in Christ alone. Therefore, Roman Catholicism is outside of Christianity.

https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity

RikoduoSennin:
Who is the FIRST begotten?

Why is he called such?

Who gave the command for the first begotten to be worshipped?

Who are those specificed to do the worshipping?

At what point in time was that command issued?

If Jesus was the God of the Angels, why would they need to be commanded first (by someone else mind you) before they are to worship Jesus- Just like unbelievers will be commanded to worship saints @ Revelation?

Show me where humans are commanded to worship Jesus?

If you read the Bible with no pre conceived-pre taught ideas, then you would know the answers to all those things
but I don't believe it's possible for you to do that, satan has his church firmly in his grip

RikoduoSennin:
If you can't differentiate between the two, something is wrong somewhere.

Look closely at the context, @John,"I am" is just a statement while @Exodus "I am" is a name. HA(YAH)--- did is see a part of the Divine name @John?

hayah and eimi are words that mean "I exist" God told Moses that His name is "I Am"

Jesus said before Abraham was "I am"

but those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, are blinded

@Daniel chapter 7: Who is the Ancient of Days seated on the throne and Who is the Son of Man who WAS GRANTED ASSESS to him?

Do you see how God was with a god.

That's nonsense, the Word was with God, and the word was God
the church of satan do not believe scriptures and change what it say's.

According to you:
God gave Jesus (God) a revelation @ Revelation 1:1; How many God is there? A:One B:Two

Yes the Father gave the Son a revelation,
you have seen where the Father called the Son "God"

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of


There is one God, but those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie, will never understand it.

@ mano, dolphi, riko, vato and others who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie

JMAN05:
Funny guy. Ur little knowledge can't figure it out. Just enjoy d petty knowledge.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie
go to great lengths in another thread to try and prove that Jesus Christ should not be worshipped, even against the scriptures posted showing He is to be worshipped.

And those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie
are going to great lengths in this thread to try and prove that Jesus Christ is not God
they fail miserably except in their own minds.

@ mano, dolphi, riko, vato, and others who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie

continue from above

John 8:24, "I said, therefore, to you, that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am, you will die in your sins."
Jesus said that if you do not believe "that I am," you will die in your sins. In Greek, I am is 'ego eimi,' which means ‘I am.' These are the same words used in John 8:58 where Jesus says " . . . before Abraham was, I am." He was claiming the divine title by quoting Exodus 3:14.
The Greek Septuagint is the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Greek and done by Jews around 250 B.C. They translated Exodus 3:14 as 'ego eimi' "I AM".

Jesus is the proper object of faith

It is not simply enough to have faith. Faith is only as valid as the person in whom you put it. You must put your faith in the proper person. Cults have false objects of faith (false gods), therefore, their faith is useless--no matter how sincere they are.
If you put your faith in a guru, a philosopher, or a past teacher (and not Jesus) to save you from your sins on Judgment Day, then you will be in a lot of trouble no matter how sincere or strong your faith is. You might have great faith but so what? Faith in something false has the same effect as no faith at all.

The Doctrine of the deity of Christ includes:

The Trinity--There is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all coeternal and of the same nature.
Monotheism--There is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 8, 45:5, 14, 18, 21, 22, 46:9, 47:8. Mormons believe that many gods exist though they serve and worship only one. Therefore, they are polytheists which excludes them from the camp of Christianity.

The Hypostatic Union--That Jesus is both God and man.

The sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ--The sacrifice of Christ is completely sufficient to pay for the sins of the world, and it is only through Jesus' sacrifice that anyone can be saved.
As God--Only a perfect sacrifice to God is able to cleanse us from our sins. This is why Jesus, who is God in flesh, died for us.
He had to die for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). Only God could do that.
As man--Jesus must be man to be able to be a sacrifice for man.
As a man, He can be the mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5).

This means that the Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, Islam, etc., are outside of Christianity.

https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity

Jesus Christ should be worshipped because He is God
apart from scriptures showing He is to be worshipped

The Deity of Christ

Jesus is God in flesh (John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14). See also John 1:1, 14, 10:30-33, 20:28, Col. 2:9, Phil. 2:5-8, Heb. 1:8
1 John 4:2-3: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
The above verse needs to be cross-referenced with John 1:1, 14 (also written by John) where he states that the Word was God and the Word became flesh.
1 John 4:2-3 is saying that if you deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then you are of the spirit of Antichrist.

https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie
have gone to great lengths to try and show that our Lord and Savious
Jesus Christ should not be worshipped
They are the church of satan
they are the pharacees of old.

Heb_1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Our Father said all His Angels were to worship Him
and all Christians worship our Lord and Savious Jesus Christ

But not those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie
they don't worship the Saviour of the world
In changing what the scriptures say
they are worshipping not the Saviour of this world, but they are worshipping the god of this world (satan).

From http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/29748/eVerseID/29748/opt/parallel/version/ylt

American Standard Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Amplified® Bible
And great {and} important {and} weighty, we confess, is the hidden truth (the mystic secret) of godliness. He [God] was made visible in human flesh, justified {and} vindicated in the [Holy] Spirit, was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, [and] taken up in glory.

Contemporary English Version
Here is the great mystery of our religion: Christ came as a human. The Spirit proved that he pleased God, and he was seen by angels. Christ was preached to the nations. People in this world put their faith in him, and he was taken up to glory.

Darby English Version
And confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in [the] Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among [the] nations, has been believed on in [the] world, has been received up in glory.

Good News Bible
No one can deny how great is the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit, and was seen by angels. He was preached among the nations, was believed in throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.

International Standard Version
By common confession, the secret of our godly worship is great: In flesh was he revealed to sight, Kept righteous by the Spirit's might, Adored by angels singing. To nations was he manifest, Believing souls found peace and rest, Our Lord in heaven reigning!

King James Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

New American Standard Bible
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.

New King James Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

N.A.S.B. in E-Prime
By common confession, great we regard the mystery of godliness: He who revealed Himself in the flesh, Received vindication in the Spirit, Viewed by angels,Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Young's Literal Translation
and, confessedly, great is the secret of piety -- God was manifested in flesh, declared righteous in spirit, seen by messengers, preached among nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory!


Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but are not, and do lie
certinally go all evil when shown the truth
and change what scriptures say.

JMAN05:
Enjoy ur error man.

Truly, the Word is God
you don't believe the Holy Bible, but change what it say's

Truly the word God in John 1:1 comes from the greek "theos"

Truly it is not error

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God(theos), and the Word was God(theos).

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses but do lie, change what the Bible says
that it is of the devil

Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, but do lie
are the church of satan
are the modern day pharacees
Truly, not error.

[size=14pt]Failed prophecies[/size]

The Watchtower Society has a long history of making prophecies and then changing them after they proved false. Dozens of references could be quoted and documented, but a few will suffice to prove the point.

Continue http://www.cftf.com/booklets/jwslisten/prophecies.htm

[size=14pt]Essential Doctrines of Christianity[/size]

by Matt Slick

The Bible itself reveals those doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith. They are 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, 3) Resurrection of Christ, 4) the gospel, and 5) monotheism. These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these five are the ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential (I call them primary essentials since the Bible declares them as essential). A non-regenerate person (i.e., Mormon or Jehovah's Witness, atheist, Muslim), will deny one or more of these essential doctrines. Please note that there are other derivative doctrines of Scripture that become necessary also and the Trinity being one.

Continue https://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity

Born again believers have the Holy Spirit of God,
they are not God, they have the Spirit of God living inside them.

The Word of God-Jesus Christ does not just have God's Spirit living inside Him, but is that Spirit of God

The Word made everything that was made --John 1
The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters --Genesis 1

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

The Word-Jesus Christ made everything that was made, and the Word was God

And God said, let their be light

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

The heavens were made by the Word of the lord-Jesus Christ

and all the host of the heavens were made by the breath(Spirit) of his mouth

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

God is Spirit, the Word-Jesus Christ is God's Spirit, the Word-Jesus Christ is God, just as the scriptures say

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am(eimi, I exist).

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM(hayah, I exist) hath sent me unto you.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's witnesses but do lie say, Jehovah God arranged for Michael to cease to exist and be recreated as Jesus, a human. However it is the Word of God who became Jesus Christ, and the Word never ceased to exist:

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Incidentally Michael never ceased to exist either.
Concerning the endtime tribulation-wrath:

Dan_12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

JMAN05:
U see the bold. Good, [size=14pt]that's another darkness[/size] I will live u in until u grow up. Maybe u ll carry dat ur meager knowledge into a standard discussion, and thus expose ur sorry condition.

Those who call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses but do lie, support one another in anything, and they call light(truth), darkness

They leave the word "God" as God where it relates to the Father
and they change the word "God" to "a god" where it relates to the Word of God
the Greek word that God comes from in both instances is "theos