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Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 1:30pm On Nov 09, 2015

[b]THE ILLUSION of HEAVEN

Assuming for the sake of argument that the Christian heaven exists, and is exactly as the tenets of Christianity describe it, there are going to be a lot of disappointed Christians.

The popular conception of the afterlife is that it's a place of happiness, where you can do all the activities you enjoyed in life without consequence. However, think about that for a second. You won't be able to have sex, because you're dead, and there's no need for sexual reproduction. You won't be able to eat your favorite foods, because you're dead, and have no metabolism. You won't be able to meet long lost loved ones, because what guarantee do you have that they ended up in the same place? If you left friends and family behind on Earth, you won't be allowed to cry for them, because God wipes away your tears and forces you not to mourn. For all you know, you could end up the equivalent of a brain in a jar once you get to heaven, because you no longer need a body to stay alive. You won't be able to do the activities you enjoyed in life, because if you're in heaven, you're only there to fulfill your one desire, which is to be with God forever.

People base their concept of heaven on their experiences in life, because that's the only frame of reference they have. Yet the things in life that we find most fulfilling all stem from the fact that we will eventually die and therefore have to make the most of our time here. Take that away and all you're left with is doing the same thing for eternity, for no reason at all.

And really, do you want to spend an eternity doing nothing but subjugating yourself to a petty genocidal tyrant like the Biblegod?[/b]

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 1:23pm On Nov 09, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-D8Mf9DdQI

Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 9:50am On Nov 09, 2015

Congratulations to all. It was indeed a joyful occasion. Thanks to all who have supported the team. This development will bode well for our Super Eagles in few years' time.

It was great speaking with Icon4s last night after and about our victory.

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Sports › Re: The Golden Eaglets Of Nigeria Thread: U-17 World Cup (India 2017) by joseph1013(op): 9:37am On Nov 09, 2015

[b][size=14pt]India eager for its turn[/size]

https://img.fifa.com/mm/photo/tournament/competition/02/73/14/16/2731416_full-lnd.jpg

Two years and some 17,000 kilometres are what currently separate India from Chile, where the curtain falls this Sunday on the FIFA U-17 World Cup 2015. And while the distance may be evident, the time is how long the South Asian country has until it stages the next edition of the event in 2017.

The passing of hosting duties took place in Vina del Mar shortly before Sunday’s final with officials from the Chile 2015 Local Organising Committee (LOC) presiding over a symbolic handover to Javier Ceppi, the Director of the India 2017 finals, and Kulan Das, the Indian FA General Secretary and member of the Organising Committee of India 2017.

“This is a hugely significant opportunity, not only for Indian football but for the global game,” said Ceppi of the 2017 tournament. Indeed, India will be hosting and participating in its first FIFA World Cup, and doing so in a way that only it could. “We’re talking about a population of 1.25 billion, a gigantic market and a huge passion for football. We’re aiming to create an enormous impact by hosting this tournament,” he added.

Ceppi, a Chilean, has already been with the LOC in India for a year, making him the ideal person to ask about the potential for the 2017 tournament to alter the sporting panorama on the sub-continent: “It will be the biggest sporting event in India’s history. They’ve hosted a Cricket World Cup there and a hockey one too, but this will be the first with a huge amount of countries seeking to qualify. The tournament will be broadcast in 200 countries – they’ve never had something on that scale before, so we cannot wait.”

Specific challenges

To the casual observer, the FIFA U-17 World Cup may be just a three-week affair. Not so for Ceppi, who is aiming to “create a scenario in which 11 million kids get involved in football, 2.8 million fans attend games in the stadia, 300 million Indians get introduced to the game and some 600 million follow the tournament on televisions. Something like that would change the history of sport in the country,” he insisted.

Not only are the objectives clear, but so too are the required steps to be taken. According to Ceppi, the LOC are working closely with the highest governmental officials to make football an integral part of the sporting programme in schools: “It doesn’t matter if kids are playing two-a-side, three-a-side or four-a-side. What matters is that they start to develop a love for the game over the next two years.”

And it is a game that is steadily winning over large sections of India’s population, making it the second national sport today. “In India, they’re fanatical about the English and Spanish leagues, as well as the national teams of Argentina, Brazil and Germany. Football is growing in popularity all the time,” said Ceppi, who values the experience gained in closely following the preparatory work done by his compatriots ahead of Chile 2015.

“Our delegation will leave Chile clear in the knowledge that you cannot organise an event like this day by day, but rather with a two- or three-year plan. Details are what make all the difference and we cannot leave anything to chance. The fans who come to India, as well as the teams, are going to be impressed by the passion of local people and the standard of organisation we have there.

"Despite having the kind of problems you don’t normally see in the west, it organises a wonderful cricket league," he concluded. "If it were football, it’d be right up there with La Liga or the Premier League. India 2017 is going to be truly impressive." [/b]

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Sports › The Golden Eaglets Of Nigeria Thread: U-17 World Cup (India 2017) by joseph1013(op): 9:35am On Nov 09, 2015

[b]The concluding day of the FIFA U-17 World Cup Chile 2015 saw Nigeria live up to their tag of pre-tournament favourites by overcoming a spirited Mali side 2-0 in the final, thereby retaining the crown they secured so impressively in the United Arab Emirates in 2013 and thus beat their own record, winning it a record 5 times, more than any nation in the world.

Nigeria became only the second side to retain the FIFA U-17 World Cup with a 2-0 win against Mali in Vina Del Mar. Victor Osimhen stole the show thanks to his record-breaking tenth goal of the tournament.

The 2017 FIFA U-17 World Cup will be the 17th edition of the FIFA U-17 World Cup, the biennial international men's youth football championship contested by the under-17 national teams of the member associations of FIFA. The tournament will be hosted by India. This will be the first time India will host an international football competition at a worldwide level.

Should the competition be considered a success, the All India Football Federation has hinted at an Under 20 World Cup bid.

cc: linked, TheSuperNerd, terzurum5, TheGoodJoe, AIG07, BascoVanVeli, Icon4s, tbaba1234, confun, safarigirl, BlackAlbino6, lakesidepapa, lexyman, enomakos, Generals03, Danycrusoe, Horus, adeyemi2015, Greenbuoy, dabossman, femi9naija, P0intBlank, bishop88, robosky02, watchindelta, mikron, Emmzyst, casket, naturalwaves, ajf, samueld0, oloriooko, successinlife, jotey, Fribery, CFCfan, chaberry, phreakabit, leecodeman, all protocols duly observed.[/b]

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Sports › Flying Eagles Of Nigeria Thread: U-20 World Cup (South Korea 2017) by joseph1013(op): 11:45pm On Nov 07, 2015*

[b]Chile U-17 World Cup ends tomorrow with The Golden Eaglets facing Mali in the Finals. We expect this set of players to form part of the next U-20 World Cup. Therefore, the journey starts now whether they win in a few hours' time or not.

The 2017 FIFA U-20 World Cup will be the 21st edition of the FIFA U-20 World Cup, the biennial international men's youth football championship contested by the under-20 national teams of the member associations of FIFA, since its inception in 1977 as the FIFA World Youth Championship. The tournament will be hosted by South Korea between 20 May and 11 June 2017.

Along with Japan and Mexico, South Korea becomes the third nation to have hosted all of FIFA Men's international competitions, namely the 2002 FIFA World Cup, the 2001 Confederations Cup and the 2007 FIFA U-17 World Cup.

The Korean FA originally place a request of hosting the tournament away from the traditional June/July period, as it would clash with Korea's rainy season, as well as any possible national team selection were they to qualify for the Confederations Cup.

Welcome!

cc: linked, TheSuperNerd, terzurum5, TheGoodJoe, AIG07, BascoVanVeli, Icon4s, tbaba1234, confun, safarigirl, BlackAlbino6, lakesidepapa, lexyman, enomakos, Generals03, Danycrusoe, Horus, adeyemi2015, Greenbuoy, dabossman, femi9naija, P0intBlank, bishop88, robosky02, watchindelta, mikron, Emmzyst, casket, naturalwaves, ajf, samueld0, oloriooko, successinlife, jotey, Fribery, CFCfan, chaberry, phreakabit, leecodeman, all protocols duly observed.[/b]

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 11:21pm On Nov 07, 2015

rabzy:
You need a stronger stomach..lol

Today when someone steals money and is unable to pay back..what do you do to the person....we put him in prison.....where he is worse off than a slave...the biblical option is to work/slave for not more than 6 years. You are fixated with the word slave...you can be a worker and be treated worse than a slave...slaves in Israel are not kidnapped or stolen men nor are they enslaved but are free-born who decide to become slaves out of their own volition to get out of their present predicament...and most importantly they are treated fairly unlike what we know of slavery generally.

Br.

[b]For the sake of argument, let's say the explanation you gave to Exodus 22:3 is right.

Explain these verses in line with your brand of slavery:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.
(Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."
(Luke 12:47-48 NLT)[/b]

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Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 4:11pm On Nov 06, 2015*

tbaba1234:
I am also not impressed by the 2015 team for the most part but they create chances even when they are not playing particularly well. So they will score goals even against the 2013 Mexico.

That is why it is a strange team. They are not flamboyant. They can just kick a long ball to Osimhen, then hope and pray. And they will create chances.

The truth is this Mexican team missed their chance to beat us. They were dangerous but wasteful particularly in the first 35 minutes.

The last mexican team did not dominate all games. This one has. I remember Brazil out playing the 2013 set but losing on penalties.

Ah...they did o. Against Brazil, they dominated and were unlucky to go to Penalties. Against a rampaging Argentina in the Semi finals, they schooled them and won with 3 unreplied goals. Most people tipped Argentina in that match. That team was good. You guys forgot that it was that final match against them that won Alampasu the golden glove. He was unbeatable that day. He was at his best.

Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 4:05pm On Nov 06, 2015

If we were to merge the 2013 and 2015 together, the only person who would have made the first team is Osimhem, and that is if Success is injured, and maybe Udoh, though personally I would still prefer Alampasu because of his height and ability to organize the defence.

Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 3:57pm On Nov 06, 2015

tbaba1234:
It is normal for kids to be deflated.

In terms of pure technical ability, this team is better.

Therefore when kids go 3 goals behind and they are not deflated but still continue to play like nothing had gone wrong, it shows character beyond their years. That team displayed maturity. That team was crisp and clinical. I maybe the only person who is still not impressed with the 2015 Golden Eaglets team. I believe the 2013 Mexican team would have defeated our 2015 set. That team would have scored at least 3 goals in that first 25 minutes of total domination of last night.

Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 3:35pm On Nov 06, 2015

Icon4s:
The 2013 Team that lost 6-1 in that opener?

The same team that defeated Sweden that drew us in the group game? That team was better than the 2015 set. The individual brilliance of our team was their undoing. Didn't you see how flat this 2015 became after we went ahead?

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 4:26pm On Nov 05, 2015

[b]EIGHT REASONS TO DOUBT

1. Humans invent gods
There are around 10,000 gods that we know of, beginning with the earliest known Sumerian pantheon. These gods cannot all be real because of contradictions between them. Therefore, at least some were invented. So we know men invent gods.

2. We believe our gods are real
Humans can believe sincerely in almost any god. Gods have ranged from evil to benevolent, from capricious to reliable, from brilliant to stupid and from brave to cowardly. Some gods are easily seen, such as rocks, rivers and heavenly bodies whilst others are invisible. Some gods are mortal and some are immortal. Some are born and some eternal. It doesn't matter--we will believe whatever we are raised to believe.

3. We don't believe our neighbours' gods are real
We find it easy to believe the gods we are raised with are real and equally easy to dismiss as invented, the gods others believe in.

4. We don't need evidence
Most humans appreciate the value of evidence but we don't need evidence to be convinced that our gods are real--nor to dismiss other people's gods. We just BELIEVE.

5. Gods serve important purposes
We use gods for four things:
(a) To make use feel more secure and valued.
(b) To explain mysteries, such as the cause of diseases and famines or the origin of the cosmos.
(c) To reduce our fear of death.
(d) To give authority to laws and to leaders.
Gods do not have to exist to serve these purposes, people only have to believe they exist. These purposes are important to us, so we regard our gods as important. However, all these purposes can be achieved equally well, or better, through secular means.

6. Gods reflect their creators
With few exceptions, gods promote the values, behaviours and social structures that are accepted by their creators--Iron Age gods, promote Iron Age values. Furthermore, gods know only what their creators knew (even if they are supposed to be omniscient). When humans misunderstand the world, their gods misunderstand the world in the same way--gods make the same mistakes their creators make.

7. We learn of gods from humans
Look at a map of world religions and you'll see great geographical blocks of different religions and gods. This is evidence for what we already know; we learn about gods from families and communities--not from gods. No gods are necessary for gods to thrive.

8. We can live without gods
Despite our devotion to gods for more than 5,000 years, humans can live perfectly happily without them. Today, over a billion people profess no belief in gods. There is no evidence that these people suffer for their lack of belief. Indeed, the opposite is true. There is evidence that these non-believers live longer, healthier and happier lives.

Even if you believe in gods, you probably know these eight points are true. None of them compel you to conclude your god is fictional. However, they are reasons for you to question your beliefs. What makes your god different from these invented gods? Probably nothing.

When you realise that, you are a step closer to a new conclusion--gods were a prop for a fledgling species that had evolved sufficiently to imagine the future, to comprehend its vulnerability and to ask questions that could not be answered.

The extraordinary brain that could do all this was also perfectly suited to imagining transcendent solutions...[/b]

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Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 7:41pm On Nov 04, 2015

safarigirl:
The funny thing is, I don't even like sports. I like writing, I like arguments, I like arguments with intelligent people, intelligent people who I don't have to break down things to before I'm understood.

Sports? it's just something that interests me at the moment, much like rapping 3 years ago. The old guys on rap section will tell you all about me, and the way I am here? That's how I was there. Difference is, in rap section, the guys are cooler and express themselves with rap. They don't take things personal and they don't attack as a group.

So yeah. This is just a phase for me, I'm here today, might not be here next year and y'all will start threads and be like "I wonder what happened to that stubborn safarigirl" much like what the rap section guys do these days, and the new guys will want to know who that stubborn girl is.

So, anybody that thinks of me as an annoying, mouthy little bytch, don't fret. In a couple of months, I'll be out of here, then, y'all can have your man cave back, aight? Just bear with me for now.

And yes, you guys have made me cry a lot, from the U20 thread till now and I still come back. I still come back because I just want someone to understand me and I argue so much because I just want someone to understand me and not take things the wrong way. Nobody ever does, but I guess I'm a sucker for punishments

The bolded is not true. I know I don't always understand you. Most times, I just ignore you when I dont. But if there is someone who does, I think it's TheSuperNerd. You should acknowledge him for that. He's always had your back.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 6:18pm On Nov 04, 2015

rabzy:
Hi Joseph, how are you doing today. lets look at what you wrote and how slaves are actually treated in Israel. In Exodus (Exodus 21:16) 16 “If anyone kidnaps a man and sells him or is caught holding him, he must be put to death. It is clearly stated that no Israelite should kidnap a man and sell him. So you cant just seize people either Israelite or foreign resident and sell him. That was ruled out. So what could make someone become a slave?

1. A person found guilty of stealing who was unable to make full restitution according to the Law could be sold as a slave and in this way pay off his debt. (Exodus 22:3) When he had worked off the debt, he could go free.

2.If an Israelite becomes poor and cannot sustain himself or his family, there is the provision for him to sell himself to a wealthy Israelite or even a foreigner, and he can get his freedom back by paying back his loan or after 6 years.

Since you can't seize a man and sell, that means the foreigner must have willingly sold himself out of extenuating circumstances...the difference with the foreigner is that he cant leave or buy himself back except if the master does so. The foreigner must weigh the decision carefully.
But both the indigene and foreigner were never sold nor treated like livestock as you said. Livestock never have say nor sell themselves willingly. See what the Bible said about how to slaves must be treated.

(Leviticus 25:39, 40) 39 “‘If your brother who lives nearby becomes poor and he has to sell himself to you, you must not force him to do slave labor. 40[b] He should be treated like a hired worker, like a settler[/b]. He should serve with you until the Jubilee year.
(Leviticus 25:49, 50) . . .Or if he himself has become wealthy, he may also buy himself back. 50 He should calculate with his purchaser the time from the year he sold himself to him until the Jubilee year, and the money of his sale will correspond to the number of years. His workdays during that time will be assessed at the rate of a hired worker. . ..

A slave must be treated as hired worker and his work should also be rated with the same pay as a hired worker, so regardless of whether they are household servants or field workers, they are to be treated as hired help and their work rated properly...you cant honestly say this is how livestock are treated or how slavery was done by surrounding nations even till date.
Cruel and abusive slavery was not allowed under God’s Law to Israel. While masters were allowed to discipline their slaves, excesses were forbidden.
A slave killed by his master was to be avenged. (Exodus 21:20) If the slave was maimed, losing a tooth or an eye, he was set free.—Exodus 21:26, 27.
This definitely does not connote a dehumanization or the kind of slavery we had in the trans-Atlantic or trans-Saharan slave trade.

When an Israelite slave was released, the master was required to be generous toward him. Deuteronomy 15:13, 14 says: “In case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress.”

In case of an Israelite man getting married to a woman provided by his master..he has a choice to wait for 6 years and be free and therefore not be indebted to his master forever by marrying the foreign woman provided. The foreign woman is suppose to be in owners house forever by law, her been given to an a willing Israelite man does not change that. If the man does not love his master or does not want to continue serving in that house, he can rightly remove the woman, and to prove that it was something that was done willingly, the owner has to bring him before witnesses in the house of God and make it a public and official by piercing the ear. So there is no case of kidnapping here or using subterfuge to hold him perpetually a slave.

The Bible clearly stated that all Israelite men and women, who stole or sold themselves must be freed after 6 years. Apparently there is another arrangement in which an indebted man will sell/give out his daughter with the view for the man to marry her himself if she is suitable to his liking. In the event the lady is not suitable, he cannot sell her to a foreigner but allow her to be bought back. He can alternatively give her to his son as his legal wife and she ceases to be a slave girl but a daughter to him. In both cases of either himself marrying her or his son, the woman has the full rights of a wife.

Jeez man! Are you saying that slavery, the practice or system of owning slaves, was a good thing in the Old testament? That slavery for a certain number of years is something to applaud? You think slavery is justified if the people enslaved are treated well?

I personally find it nauseating reading your post.

1 Like

Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 1:52pm On Nov 04, 2015

TheGoodJoe:
It is difficult for a man to have a whole career without a few slips. CR7 has really tried in maintaining a high disciplined career. Few slips does not tarnish that.

I think he's saying that CR7 is not the right example of morality given his past and current lifestyle and behaviour. It's a non-issue, really. Haircuts or not determine nothing. Examples abound aplenty in the Underage competitions. Neymar, Pogba readily come to mind. The reasons the Golden Eaglets are playing well is not become they are not sporting stylish hairstyles!

1 Like

Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 8:58am On Nov 04, 2015

safarigirl:
bros, this your hair argument can never fly anywhere.

so all the U17 and U20 teams that have Ben winning this competition have good haircuts? Does that even sound sensible to you. One can't even argue with you because it would be senseless.

Good morning sha

He's a moralist, who equates outward appearances with what goes on in the heart. I'm sure he'd have been incensed when he first saw Tattoos on Messi's hands. If Messi's performance drops, it wont be difficult for him to link it with the 'demonic' ink on his body. That's the way moralists are.

Sports › Re: FIFA U-17: Eaglets Are Men, Claims Mexican Newspaper by joseph1013: 8:53am On Nov 04, 2015

Icon4s:
Just like they complained in 2013.
They are perplexed at the way our Boys throw passes and take shots.

They dn't really believe 16 & 17 yrs olds can do such. Dnt worry after winning this tourney we'll start sending our U14s to represent us cos our U17 are way too much for d rest of d world.

cc: Joseph1013, terzurum5, TheGoodJoe, TheSupernerd, Safarigirl,Bascovanveli,

Crybabies. Anyone who does not agree that our boys are in the U17 category can take their case to FIFA. They were the ones who mandated the MRI scans.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 8:16pm On Nov 03, 2015*

STOP JUMPING TO SUPERNATURAL CONCLUSIONS

Isn't it interesting how some people are more willing to jump to a supernatural explanation for things they don't understand.....rather than just accept that there are perfectly "normal" explanations for the things they don't understand?

The same applies to almost any other supernatural claim you can think of, including mediums, psychics, UFO sightings, hauntings, etc.

Watch this video:

https://www.facebook.com/justinflomofficial/videos/10154401757047627/

Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 7:59pm On Nov 03, 2015

adeyemi2015:
I've been following your comments quite a long.... you are simply fantastic! Same as Tbaba1234, Goodjoe, Joseph1013, Icon4s, AIG07, Linked and others I couldn't mention. The OP is also doing a fantastic job for keeping the thread lively with up to date information on the Team.
I respect you all!
One Love!
Up National Teams!!!

TheSuperNerd is a terrific guy. I have often wondered though how he manages to keep up with his studies. I was an Engineering student who had many medical friends back in the day, so I should know how tasking these courses can be

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Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 6:24pm On Nov 03, 2015

Living4christ:
God told noah to build room for the animals, the titanic ship did not contain as much room or Genesis 6:14, but the titanic ship only had space for entertainment purposes and not as much room as the ark.

Well i believe i have tried to convince you, you cannot ask me what i do not know, and i cannot answer what i know not. But what evere you believe consider this, What if Hell is real? What if God does exist?, What if Jesus Was the True Salvation?

Oh the Pascal's wager! Sounds familiar

Then have you considered this:

[img]http://3.bp..com/-90jRMSsVbSE/UEYvawbRpSI/AAAAAAAABNA/KtLDWLfYDes/s1600/pascalswagerfixed.jpg[/img]

Here is an "expanded" version:

[img]http://2.bp..com/-8NdaLJYgUIs/UEzOZj0N9jI/AAAAAAAABPs/jO2Lxk-rS0M/s1600/expanded.png[/img]

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 2:00pm On Nov 03, 2015

Living4christ:
Mount Ararat were Noah's ark was found is sure, remember that scientist most of them don't believe in God either, so depending on them can be damning because satan has blinded their eyes from the truth. I watched a video series on which scientist were trying to investigate what actually happened to the Wall of Jericho which the bible said that as the children of Israel sounded the trumpet the wall fell down flat, they were saying that it was not possible for a thick wall to fall by the sound of trumpet (well unfortunately miracles cannot be investigated but believe), God has tried a lot to make sure Humans believe and trust in him, but unfortunately, many have not yet believed that he is the creator of Heaven and earth, as because they don't understand how God created heaven and earth without any material, they were deceived to believe that humans evolved from nothing, that it was a series of random cosmic events that caused chemical processes to create life-forms. Stating that all life-forms on Earth are related from the most minuscule to the most complex. Do you believe this.

So they are just confused people seeking for answer, God only disposed the natural secrets to them but the Secret of Creation is not for all but will be revealed to his children in the last day, You cannot comprehend God, No one knows his beginning.

[b]See..the reason 99% of World renown scientists dont believe in God is not because Satan has blinded their eyes (who is Satan anyway?), it's because they have examined the evidence and seen nothing there.

For instance, you brought up the Ark of noah. It has not been found. Here (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0920_040920_noahs_ark.html), National Geographic says that despite many expeditions, no scientific evidence of the ark has been found. The practice is widely regarded as pseudoscience, more specifically pseudoarchaeology.

Let's look at it together and employ common sense while we do so.

Let's compare the Titanic ship and the Noah's ark and see if the story ever told by the Bible pertaining the Noah flood is feasible.

TITANIC BOAT
HEIGHT ~ 175ft
LENGTH ~ 882 ft
WIDTH ~ 92 ft
CONSTRUCTION ~ Steel
CAPACITY ~ Maximum of 5000 humans + animals
STORAGE FACILITY ~ Maximum of 4 weeks

NOAH'S ARK (as told by the Bible in Genesis)
HEIGHT ~ 45ft
LENGTH ~ 450ft
WIDTH ~ 75ft
CONSTRUCTION ~ Wood
CAPACITY ~ Minimum of 50,000 animals + 2,000,000 insects + 8 humans
STORAGE FACILITY ~ Minimum of 1 year.

Now, can you see how sane people sometimes think that you cannot this kind of story unless you are silly?[/b]

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Sports › Re: All The News About The Golden Eaglets (U-17) HERE! by joseph1013(op): 11:51am On Nov 03, 2015

I can't help laughing at this team. Funny how Amuneke has become a tactical genius. Same guy folks gave up on enroute to the tournament. Success indeed has many friends.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 11:07am On Nov 03, 2015

[b]REMEMBER, REMEMBER THE FIFTH OF NOVEMBER

The sky is filled with loud crackling explosions, screams, whistles and flashes of coloured light. That is an annual event in England celebrating the abortive Gunpowder Plot of 1605.

The plot, led by Robert Catesby, was to kill the King of England and his entire government on the occasion of the State Opening of Parliament on November 5th that year. The plan was to hide 36 barrels of gunpowder in the cellars below the King's throne and ignite it during the ceremony. Such a huge quantity of gunpowder would have caused a devastating blast which few would have survived.

The perilous task of secreting the gunpowder into cellars and igniting it fell to one, Guy Fawkes, who had been recruited some 18 months earlier by co-conspirator, Thomas Wintour. Fawkes carried out his task with skill and daring and managed to smuggle all 36 barrels of gunpowder into the cellar and hide them under firewood.

But on the night of November 4th, as Fawkes was putting the finishing touches to his massive bomb, he was discovered by guards. Fawkes endured 2 days of terrible torture before he broke and signed a confession telling all he knew.

He was found guilty of treason and sentenced to be "hanged, drawn and quartered". This punishment, reserved for traitors, was not pretty. It involved being hanged by a rope around the neck and being cut down before losing consciousness. The prisoner would have his testicles cut off, and stomach slit to allow his guts to fall out before his eyes. The body would finally be hacked into four quarters. All this of course, was set up as a public spectacle.

In the event, Fawkes somehow managed to hurl himself from the gallows, breaking his neck and avoiding being conscious for the grisly final stages of his execution.

To this day, the English celebrate foiling the Gunpowder Plot with fireworks and bonfires on the fifth of November. Atop the bonfires they burn effigies of Guy Fawkes.

Most English people will be familiar with this story but not all will know why Fawkes and his conspirators risked so much and were so determined to kill the king and his entire government. The reason is simple--religion.

The conspirators were Catholics and the king was a Protestant. Catholics and Protestants had been at virtual war since King Henry VIII broke from the authority of the Pope 71 years earlier. Much blood was shed over this schism.

The history of the Abrahamic religions is a long and bloody one. It's time all these bloody religions were history.[/b]

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Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 8:17pm On Nov 02, 2015

ikenigel:
Dude, your questions are irrelevant to the subject matter of the existence of God. What I'm concerned about is to put you in a position where you will find the proof that God indeed exists for yourself as an atheist. It appears your PROBLEM here with God is actually 'why there are VARIOUS religions' right? If you have a problem with the different religions, then that's up to you to do something about it, if you care. But don't use the multiple religious beliefs as A REASON to BOLDLY assert that God does not exist. All these different people who believe differently come from ONE TRUE GOD. That they believe in different things does not make God multiple or NON-EXISTENT as you claim.

You keep deflecting. Where is the proof that God exists? Oh yes, in your heart! That's all about it.

If you have nothing save your advice to wait and see God act, then I have exhausted this discussion

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 7:19pm On Nov 02, 2015

ikenigel:
The ONLY way to KNOW(what you MAY be permitted to KNOW) about the ultimately unknowable is by DROPPING ANY ASSUMED KNOWLEDGE OF IT and keeping an OPEN/FREE/UNCERTAIN mindset about these things. More and more RESEARCH applies to the things experienced PHYSICALLY in the physical world you see around. You cannot RESEARCH INTO what you don't know about. Admit ignorance and see it for yourself. Ask questions if you'd be willing to still keep an open mind after getting answers. The answer you're seeking will come from inside you and you alone.Outside opinion may help, but the answer you will get personally through spiritual awareness/experience will fully satisfy your so called 'outside' research/curiousity. Anyway, enjoy your strong position on non-existence of God.

I assume you know God. Right? Of course that's based on your feelings, not on any hard evidence since there's none. Are you as comfortable with a Muslim who says the same?

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Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 6:18pm On Nov 02, 2015

ikenigel:
Summary NOT on point! We as humans were created to have that desire and enquire about things. We have reason to help us make the right choices. These intellectual faculties must be used by man to guide his steps. But there are things that can never be understood by these faculties. Therefore, it is wise for man to admit the limits of these faculties for therein lies wisdom. What you need to DROP is your "assumed" knowledge of the attributes, properties and characteristics of those things which has crossed the border line of our intellect and reason. In dropping them, you start gaining little insight standing on the border of reason. But to think you know everything and that you can cross the limit of the intellect and find out/claim knowledge about the unknown is plain stupidity and foolishness. So keep the desire/quest to know, but never think you've known/had knowledge of the boundless/infinite. About Paul, I don't know. Why did you bring him up in the first place? If you believe so much in the bible, why are you an atheist??

[b]The bolded shows how wrong you really can be. You say there are some things we can never know. Well, how do we know what we will never know until we make more and more research which includes asking lots and lots of questions?

What you said was what was said in ancient Babylon in what is present-day Iraq. The priests had taught that lunar eclipses were caused by the restlessness of the gods. They were considered evil omens that were directed against and threatened the lives of their kings. Then, local astronomers discovered the 18 year and 11.3 day (223 synodic month) interval between lunar eclipses. This suggested that the eclipses had natural cause.

So you see, reasoning and enquiry has served us so well since the beginning of time in solving problems and destroying myths, why should we stop now simply because someone like you says there are some things we will never know?

There is not a time we say we know everything. We only say that you prove to us what you think you know for which we have not found objective evidence. How does that translate to arrogance? You are the arrogant one for saying we will not know despite the amazing achievements and enquiry of science into the unknown.[/b]

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Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 4:30pm On Nov 02, 2015

ikenigel:
[b] It looks as if I'm wasting my time on your thread. Well, it's cool cos I know I'm not just commenting here for YOU alone, but for many more skeptics who are reading along. You see nothing concerns this argument with Paul or anybody. I don't care about any stories from anywhere to prove anything to you. You clearly want to back out from our main argument by bringing in one 'Paul' but it's not working. You care about these stories because you're looking for more things that will blind you from seeing the truth. Let's leave anything from any history here. Argue with valid points not make belief. The same book you argue against is the same book you want to use to support your claim. Who argues like that? Argue reasonably my friend. Let us both leave books out of here.
What do you mean by 'you guys'? Don't classify me anywhere. You don't know me. I'm here to argue with you alone and I'm not with any 'You guys'. As regards your question, I don't know how you can know him. You like using the word KNOW but understand that Nobody can fully claim knowledge of God. Find out these things yourself from experience and keeping an open mind or keep deceiving yourself with illusions, false beliefs and fake stories. [/b]

Your point is? We should drop our quest for enquiry and reason and simply believe, then patiently wait for him to reveal himself to us? Paul's conversion story is not true, and if true does not have any bearing to the 21st century?

Is my summary on point?

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 3:47pm On Nov 02, 2015

ikenigel:
[b] When I say ADMIT your 'not-knowing', I don't mean you will ever get to the point where you can claim you KNOW him(full knowledge of God). Get it?
Don't bring anybody into this! Do you believe so much in the bible to believe Apostle Paul's story? Why bring it up here to defend yourself?
Look, I understand you were a christian who probably didn't know what he was doing and why he believed in whatever he believed in. I understand you now want to know WHY you were doing those things, which is good and better than just blindly doing what you dunno! But to understand it, you must drop what you think/assume/believe that 'God' is. You must admit you don't know anything about all these speculations and pray/hope that someday you will understand. Your strong stand that God 'doesn't' exist or that God is discriminatory, or an imaginary being up in this sky etc' are blinding your spiritual senses from this experience that you need yourself. I don't know how to say it anymore. A word is enough for the one who is wise. [/b]

I wonder why you do not want to bring Paul into the discussion. Is it that you dont believe his conversion story, or you believe that it is one-time event? If it happened to Paul, as you guys believe, why can it not happen to myself and millions of others who ask for proof? Is that too hard for God to do?

And if you cannot fully know God, how then can you know him? LOL.

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 3:43pm On Nov 02, 2015

Living4christ:
So what do you say about the proofs, leave the inaccuracy of earth's age.

Your first link talked about the accuracy of the Bible. Yes, some events in the Bible are accurate. Like the sojourn in Babylon. But there are several events in the Bible that never took place. Like the Worldwide Flood, Tower of Babel, the Universal Census. They never did. And that is why an overwhelming majority of Biblical scholars do not believe in the inerrancy of the Scriptures.

Second link from Wikipedia has this displayed at the top

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
The neutrality of this article is disputed. (September 2011)
This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. (December 2011)
This article may need to be rewritten entirely to comply with Wikipedia's quality standards. (December 2011)
It means that what follows cannot be trusted.

The last two are by 6000years.com. Their claims have been disproved by World reknown archeologists. That site is fraud!

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 2:46pm On Nov 02, 2015

ikenigel:
What is wrong with you man? NOBODY is telling you that their PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is PROOF that God exists. No person is bloody telling you that! We are telling you that when you drop all your notions/beliefs about God and admit your "not-knowing" / ignorance of spiritual perception, YOUR OWN personal experience will prove it to YOU & YOU ALONE.

The same God that you say is beyond knowing? Make up your mind! And again, why do I need to drop my beliefs? Did Paul The Apostle drop his beliefs before God supposedly revealed himself to him? Am I and millions of people worldwide demanding that God reveals himself lesser humans?

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 12:42pm On Nov 02, 2015

[b]THE OLIVE MYSTERY SOLVED!

This morning, Osimhen found an olive on the kitchen floor. He was astonished. He absolutely adores olives but he never buys them so he never have them in the house. How then, did it get there?

He lives alone and it wasn't there when he retired to bed, so it must have appeared overnight. Olives don't magically appear so something must have placed it there. There were no open windows or doors, so whatever did this must have been small enough to squeeze under a door or through a gap in a doorframe.

After much thought, Osimhen worked it out. The olive was placed by an intelligent ant who knows him and loves him.

How do he know this? Only an ant would be small enough to get through a small crack yet have the strength to move an olive. Only an intelligent ant could have known that he love olives and known exactly where to place an olive so he would immediately spot it. And only an ant that loves him would leave his all-time favourite snack.
....

If I actually argued like this, you would think I was insane. But millions of people do argue exactly like this. They say, they can't imagine how the universe came to exist, so they invent a character whom they argue MUST have been responsible. They go on to describe the personality of this invented character--they call it God and they say it loves us and protects us and will answer our prayers.

This is not just bad logic--it is bad logic with a big dose of wishful thinking.

The ant logic was bad but the God logic is worse. At least we know ants exist and intelligent creatures exist but we have never, ever witnessed an intelligent invisible being.

In fact, we have no reason to believe that an intelligent invisible being is even possible. Do we?[/b]

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013(op): 12:34pm On Nov 02, 2015

Living4christ:
Words cannot express what i had experience in christ, practical christianity is my watchword meet a charismatic preacher to proof it.

Unfortunately, objectivity cannot allow me to take you at your words. You will need to bring your experiences to the table and then we look at it together.

I know deep down me that this God i serve is unique from all other and Mighty in power, he is Great indeed, search more you will see and believe, don't just observe if you really want to know, meet people that have impacted on the world.

Again, instincts, individual guts feelings are subjective. I know a Rastafarian man from Jamaica who swears that smoking cannabis is a spiritual act, often accompanied by Bible study. He says he knows deep down inside him that that's what Jah commands. Do you agree with him? Of course not. Does he believe you? Definitely not! See?

the truth and accuracy of the bible lies here, http://amazingbibletimeline.com/bible_questions/q9_historical_proof_bible/, and the truth of the apostles act lies here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_reliability_of_the_Acts_of_the_Apostles and http://www.6000years.org/frame.php?page=home

and this http://www.6000years.org/frame.php?page=mt_sinai

Unfortunately, that site is very unreliable. For one, it believes that the earth is 6000 years. This is widely incorrect and there are several scientific proofs that show us that it cannot be true.

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