Emusan:


Finding and escape route....

You're preaching lies and deceits

You are a big joke. Jesus will ressurect the saint yet will leave some good ones in the grave for judgment again . And according to you they have the same hope to reign with Christ ? First ressurection ?

Emusan:


This is my post "Second coming is the rounding up of the event and is just one event while THE SIGNS that preceding that event is what is happening right now in the word...
Second coming has not happened....if it happened the way scripture described it is what we'll experience just as we can experience the same PRECEEDING SIGNS now...when He comes, AL KINDREDS OF EARTH will wail BECAUSE OF HIM, people will see Him, it will be as lightning shineth from the east to west, that's why Christ warned us against people like Jehovah witness who says He has come invisibly because the event will be opened to everyone and it's not what someone will tell another person about everyone on EARTH will experience the event by themselves.....
None of this was experienced during your presence in 1914 no wonder it was tagged
INVISIBLE PRESENCE ....

Provide the evidence that all these happened in 1914 your demonic organization claimed the invisible return....

The world will see me no more - Jesus .

The question he asked was : who are those ruling with Christ ? Those having a share in the first ressurection ?

Emusan:


When the dead people good and unrighteous will be resurrected is for the final judgment of Christ where everyone will be judge and sent to their final destination including Devil, the first resurrection is catching away of the saints from the event of the Antichrist, that will be allowed to reign for awhile on earth.

I'm tired of this Sunday school lecture abeg...

Go for Sunday school you know go gree

Emusan, you are the comedian of the year.

The same final destination of those ruling with Christ ? No be heaven again ? Then it means first ressurection have no significance . cos all those ruling with Christ have a share in it now you are saying people will be sent to their final destination . heaven again to rule with Christ. Haba

Barristter07:


Who are those that will reign with Christ for a thousand years ? Those who experience the first ressurection ?

Lol, he will avoid this like plague

Emusan:


You're a liar...

The word is just interpretation....why some interpreted as presence, some COMING but it was describing just one EVENT!

So not that there will be Christ presence first then COMING after!

The change is for those who are still on earth ALIVE when Christ will come because when Christ will come PEOPLE WILL STILL BE ALIVE ON EARTH, healthy and living fine...not that everyone on earth will be in a state of DEATH.

So what apostle Paul described is for those who will be alive when the quick catching away will happen....

In summary of what Apostle Paul meant:

At the second coming of Christ, the dead ones will rise first [having the incorruptible body] while the living one will be changed (their current state which is corrupted body into incorruptible body [as flesh and blood can't inherit the kingdom of God] and these two will reign with Christ)

You are just making noise, for anyone to reign with Christ in heaven, they must have a share in the first ressurection. You are preaching an hoax

Barristter07:


Dead raised instantly in the twinkling of an eye is a mystery. Even Jesus had to wait for three days in the grave to experience his change to spirit being.

Grab it now ?



Revelation 20:6 is still in your bible right ?

"Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."

Who are those that will be priests of God and reign with Christ ? The one who shares in the first ressurection.


Again its impossible not to die and reign with Christ. First ressurection is a must.



May I ask you what exactly are they changing to , and let's see if its not for all of them ?



Why is it that people who experience the second death were not said to be asleep ? Cos Sleep means death according to you.

My sarcastic comment on Stephen was to make you realize the word sleep was used cos he had to wait for long before ressurection



Reign with Christ , a person must have a share in the first ressurection. Let it sink



Hahahahaha, Yeeba... Don't tell me that verse is symbolic o ?



But you said it doesn't mean the soldiers that Peirce him will see him ?



Coming vs presence creates a big gap. So I won't go there to avoid creating unnecessary discussion

But let this sink again... Reigning with Christ is for those who have a share in the ressurection.

Thanks bro , here is the change.

1Corinthians 15

53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.


According to liar emusan , only his fantasy living ones will experience that change, I wonder if he didn't read 42-44 , where it says the dead are raised imperishable as well .

Paul said when that change occur , the saying that Death is swallowed forever comes to pass , Why is he mentioning death if they all won't die? Only ressurection from death can warrant such victory

achorladey:


TWO HOPES all the way hahahahaha followed closely by TWO DESTINATION. That's what you have been trying to DEFEND all along. You brought it forward last last

I believe your quote was clear enough.

achorladey:



YEEBARIBA.........."Christ CAME INVISIBLY" that is WHY he is INVISIBLY PRESENT WITH US. I hope you catch the DRIFT. Well what do I know. SENSE is INVISIBLY missing.

there must be A THIRD INVISIBLE COMING as it SEEMS since JUDGEMENT is still AHEAD ..........YEEBARIBA

Christ presence is just like the days of Noah ... Covered a period of time and end in judgement. Its right there at Matthew 24, but you can't read

achorladey:



Jozzy4: Everyone who have the HOPE of ruling with Christ must die. Rev 20:6.

Achorladey: In the THEOLOGY of JWS that would be the 144,000 in fact SOME of them are RESURRECTED to heaven and are CONVEYING the spiritual TRUTH JWS enjoy TODAY.

You will come back and tell us that CHRISTIANS only HAVE ONE HOPE but TWO DESTINATIONS.
Let me copy your brother YEEBARIBA.

" my point remains for all those in this one and only new covenant they remain as King and Priest irrespective of their DESTINATION( Heaven or Earth) . " - achorladey

u no well

Emusan:


First of all, the red part you pointed out was a reference to what he said, about Greek word for DEATH which I mean they might not be the same.

So far you're the liar here who claimed Sleep is not synonymous to Death

Just admit it already, the word Paul use is not the same as die. Which has a different Greek word and was used in that same 1Cor 15. It simply means resting for a period of time.

The problem you have is lack of comprehension...
FALLEN ASLEEP has been used by Apostle Paul is about DEATH.

That Word conveys a deep sleep . Doesn't apply to someone ressurected in an instant . it was also applied to Peter when he was in prison. Its in no way a synonym for death. Hence Peter would be a dead man when it says he fell asleep.

If the person are raised in the twinkling of an eye....then beg for when did that raising in twinkling of an eye stop? Are people died today still raised in twinkling of an eye?

Its still going on. Its known as the first ressurection which is for those who will rule with Christ

We all know before resurrection there must be death the point is, at the second coming of Christ not everyone will die before they meet the Lord

Everyone who have the hope of ruling with Christ must die. Rev 20:6

Christ has not come....Matt 24 stated it clearly that whatever that'll happen all just SIGNS of His second coming.

Only your organization uses the event of World War to lie about second coming.

Everyone knows that Greek word means presence . but let's say you which it's rendered coming , Coming can mean " Arrival " agree ?

That would in essence mean Sign of his arrival. Which is the exact timing for your so called flying in the air . y'all should be flying already

So what of WE today

Remember in that verse your brother emphasis on WE which included Apostle Paul.

First ressurection is going on for those who have the heavenly calling. Death is compulsory to have a part in ruling with Christ.

Emusan:


You look at the content of a statement first!

Besides, the bone contention here is, does sleep synonymous with death?

Which your brother first claimed it was not!



It might not be the same as death but it's evident wherever it used depending on the content means DEATH, is it true or false?

You are now agreeing with claim ba? @ red . Breeze don blow at your lies

The question is, before this instant resurrection, what is the state of the person?

The Person simply died . But didn't sleep as they are raised in the twinkling of an eye.

The Greek word for die is different from the one at 1Cor 15:51. So Paul isn't saying they won't die ,

Also, who and who will experience instant resurrection?



To you

Revelation 20:6 says ruling with Christ is for those who experience first resurrection . showing death is a must. Before resurrection must come death

Emphasis on "WE" was Apostle Paul part of the WE or the rest of the people?

Is Apostle still in the grave now awaiting resurrection?

We are now at Christ's presence ( Matthew 24 the signs are evident ) . and that's the period the Bible placed the first ressurection . 1The 4:15-17 so Paul is currently ressurected to heaven to rule with Christ

Clarify how the instant will be...
is the person will die and immediately he'll be resurrected?

Who are the one who will experience instant resurrection and who are the one who will wait in the grave?

Let's see if the scripture separates any.

It does separate , this is where 1The 4:15-17 comes in it says ' The living won't precede those already died for years ' . cos those living at the time of Christ presence would have to wait for their own death too, but unlike those ones. They would be ressurected in an instant as a spirit being.

Barristter07:
Emusan



The exact same word was applied to Jesus disciples at Gethsemane when they were sleeping, Does that mean he met them as dead men ?

I want us to be highly objective here. That Greek word in itself is not the same as death but for emphasis where death is talked about its added to show that such a person is still in the grave AWAITING A Ressurection. E.g Lazarus

For someone ressurected instantly, that won't apply. He was never in a waiting state of rest.

I believe Revelation 20:6 quoted earlier is clear enough.




Not just death, that word when used in connection with death signifies someone awaiting a resurrection , the word carries the meaning of resting for a long period or waiting. Hence it's used for living persons too . its not same as death!!! . there is a different Greek word for " death " and while Paul used it in that same 1Corinthians 15, he didn't use it at verse 51. Why? Take a look at the text again.

" Look! I tell you a sacred secret: WE will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, AND WE will be changed.

Emphasis on " we"

To experience the change a person must be raised up incorruptible and that's by dying. But he was only emphasizing that some would be instant. Like he asked earlier: someone who closed their eyes and open it immediately , Is that sleep?

Thank you brother . 1 Corinthians 15:36 he said what you sow doesn't not come to life unless first it DIES. The Greek word is direct .


apothnéskó: to die

It has nothing to do with sleep or not. It simply means to die ... The other word conveys a meaning of waiting to be awaken. While this simply means to die. Interestingly Paul didn't use this word at 1 Cor 15:51 clearing the point. Revelation 20:6 remains valid

Emusan:


One thing that is certained is that most you JWs will never accept you made mistakes thinking you know more than the rest.

Your first claim was "SLEEP is never SYNONYMOUS to Death"

This is how you put it in your own word "Thank you, let me repeat this .... Sleep indicate a period of rest. Paul is not saying they won't die . The word sleep is not synonymous with death."

But it's evident throughout the scriptures how sleep was equated with death.

You did this just to disprove that verse without looking at where scripture uses the same word.

Look at how Apostle Paul himself put it here
"1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep."

Apostle Paul used FALLING ASLEEP here to mean death and it's evident from that passage that "....we shall not all SLEEP...." means we shall not all died but only a manipulator like you and your organization will pervert the meaning of that verse.

Liarrrrrrrrr Emusan, 419, that same word was applied to living persons proving The word itself doesn't mean death or equal death. But when its used for a dead person, means they are sleeping in death or waiting in the grave. It carries a sense of resting in death awaiting who will wake them up. While for living long period of rest until they are awaken . the concept is to be in a state of sleep. Closing eyes and opening it immediately is not sleep.

Revelation 20:6 says for anyone to rule with Christ as King and Priest , they must die and be ressurected . so death is compulsory.

But for some , since their resurrection would be instant they won't actually sleep.

achorladey:


dont worry we will be flying together very soon. Mr FALLACY DETECTOR using the NO PRECISE date of CHRIST PRESENCE based on the popular PRECISE DATE.

Matthew 24 is clear enough, the signs are here . don't know why y'all ain't flying yet. after all those remaining till Christ presence ought to be flying now.

achorladey:

he is coming back to defend it with the "YOU DONT HAVE sense" tag and the confusion below

THEY WON'T NEED TO SLEEP OR BE IN A SLEEPING MODE BEFORE THEY ARE RESSURECTED . THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WILL NOT DIE, TO EXPERIENCE RESURRECTION , THERE MUST BE DEATH.

You cant blame him I was reading an article from the watchtower that has the title FIRST RESURRECTION NOW UNDER WAY

the concluding paragraphs states the below......

God’s Word does not disclose a precise date for the first resurrection, but it does reveal that it occurs over a period of time, during Christ’s presence........

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2007006

In essence the entire article is centered on SPEC SPEC SPEC SPEC SPECULATION. It would be nice for one to KEY into Acts 1:7

I expect you guys to be flying to heaven already since we are now at Christ presence ... If your understanding is correct. Fallacy master.

Emusan:
That's why I always say Jehovah witness are the most hypocrites...

Didn't your organization contrast sleep with death?

for instance, the case of Lazarus before Jesus raised him up.

This is a link where your demonic organization categorically said "Death is like a deep sleep"

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20140101/death-is-not-the-end/

" sleep" to rest for a period of time . in humans people rest majorly at night for hours during which there bodies are at rest. Even Lazarus has been dead for days , so its understandable why death is likened to sleep . but when someone says we shall not all sleep. Its never the same as we shall not all die. Never !


Excerpt from the link above ,




" Notice that regarding the death of both Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter, Jesus compared death to sleep. That is a fitting comparison. Why? Sleep is an unconscious state and suitably conveys the idea of REST from pain and suffering. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; see the accompanying box, “Death Is Like a Deep Sleep.”) Jesus’ early disciples clearly understood the true condition of the dead. “To the followers of Jesus death was a sleep, and the grave a resting-place . . . for those who had died in the faith,” * states the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics

The word " sleep " conveys the idea of some period of rest.


Let me ask: If someone close their eyes and open it instantly , Is that the same as sleep/rest?

achorladey:


That's the one thing you love doing DIVERSION, it has jumped from presence to remain till when then back to presence.

Your last post carries upon DEATH.

Compare with this YOUR statement below.....

THEY WON'T NEED TO SLEEP OR BE IN A SLEEPING MODE BEFORE THEY ARE RESSURECTED . THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WILL NOT DIE, TO EXPERIENCE RESURRECTION , THERE MUST BE DEATH

the reason mrZENographer says CONFUSION everywhere.

THEY WONT NEED TO die THERE MUST BE DEATH all in ONE swoop.

To colour it you now go the way of presence. The same presence TEACHING that was going back and forth while being herald at different times.

You don't have sense i repeat, Two scripture were presented by MrZENographer . 1 Cor 15:51 and 1The 4:15-17 . I pose different point to each

For 1 Cor 15:51 my point remains not all that dies will fall asleep. But death is compulsory for all who will rule as King and Priest with Christ. ( Rev 20:6 ) but in that scripture paul reveal some will receive an instant ressurection. Do they sleep ? U no get sense I repeat it once more

And concerning the second I pose a question to you. The event is dated at Christ's presence going by verse 15. Are we presently seeing the signs of Christ presence or not as stated in Matthew 24? If yes, why is your theory of flying not started happening ? ...

I never diverted but treat two different scriptures. Don't be silly

achorladey:


DIVERSION mode in place with the PRESENCE PALAVER.

And it render You speechless ? yeye .

cRobo:



since you are an old man(soon to die) why don't you make your comment thereby ignoring mine

your empty brain can't think for itself that why you rely on my comment

Eeyah, smiles ...

I was actually supporting your point. I said " Too many kids " because there are too many guys thinking like what you described as kid attitude below


" I will forever respect any woman who is bold enough to state clear her desire about me

well it all depends on the maturity of the guy


only kids will take such for granted " - CRobo

achorladey:


Some WILL UPON DEATH and not SOME "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN"

Remain till when ? Christ presence abi ? So why is it not happening now, people been lifted up without dying yeye ?

achorladey:


That's why its good to read carefully what people post here and try keep to the point they are trying to make before you start diverting into areas not called for. My palaver is NOT CHRIST PRESENCE. The organization you are a member of have GONE BACK and FORTH on that too numerous to count under half of a DECADE.

You who knows better , why are people not dissapearing now without dying, or are we not at the time of Christ presence ?? Or is Paul lying ? yeye dey smell

That's what happened CONCERNING the ONE HOPE discussion you and I had last palaver before you DIVERT into ONE HOPE, TWO DESTINATION conundrum.

You no well, your post admitting two destination is still in my file ...

mrZENographer:


All the saints/righteous believers, dead or alive.

Thanks bro, I agree with you ressurection is a must for all who have the calling to rule as King and priest with Christ in heaven. ( I choose not to use the word rapture earlier cos some people who preach rapture believe they don't need ressurection as they suddenly disappear alive, that's what I don't agree with. So am cool with the word first ressurection rather than rapture) .... Though I do not agree all righteous people have the heavenly calling. But that's a topic for another day.

achorladey:



That's your palaver, very soon your usual ADJECTIVES will FOLLOW, mrZENographer highlighted this earlier now correlate it with YOUR LATEST post

THEY WON'T NEED TO SLEEP OR BE IN A SLEEPING MODE BEFORE THEY ARE RESSURECTED . THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WILL NOT DIE, TO EXPERIENCE RESURRECTION , THERE MUST BE DEATH

To rule with Christ, tasting death and ressurection is a must - Rev 20:6 . Have sense. Some will upon death, experience an instant ressurection in the twinkling of an eye . No sleeping in the grave for long

achorladey:


Will I have to turn the scriptures into something else WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN" are NOT DEAD, so tell us WHY they NEED RESURRECTION?

You no just have sense ... Verse 15 says its those who are alive till the time of Christ presence . If this means they won't die, Why are people not presently getting caught up to heaven WITHOUT DYINg at this period of Christ presence ?? If you are correct, it should be happening now!!

mrZENographer:


The First resurrection is the transformation from the flesh to the glorious body of Christ...

In a twinkle of an eye , for those who sleep and those who are alive at the time of Jesus coming

All must partake of ressurection ba ?

achorladey:


Jozzy4: If I ask you what are your beliefs , you will scream Jesus is the way, and all such matters should be left till he comes. You don't do doctrine. But here you are trying to prove one . Interesting

Achorladey: What I have to say to the ABOVE is, YOU cannot READ HEART. Since you cannot READ HEART, you don't know where I am headed. So the above are just MERE SPECULATION from your MIND. The article cited should have aided your direction of where I am headed.

Jozzy: Since you have assumed already ??

Achorladey: Assume what? Oga Jozzy4

Jozzy4: The same Greek word appears when Jesus met the disciples in deep sleep at Gethsemane,

Achorladey: Now its the GREEK word appear in GETHSEMANE, we are with Paul at Thessalonica not GETHSEMANE. Jesus was dealing with his DISCIPLES that are NOT DEAD Paul's discussion is centred on THOSE ALREADY DEAD and the "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN".

Perhaps when you bring out my ASSUMPTION on your "NO RESTING LIKE OTHERS" palaver and that your NO RESTING LIKE OTHERS could be "THEY ARE NOT DEAD" LIKE the DISCIPLES Jesus was talking to in GETHSEMANE.

Concerning the question I raised, please affirm, is it once again......NO THEY DON'T?

You lack Bible knowledge big time , Are you aware that there is a different word for death in that same 1 Cor chapter 15 ? For example when Paul says what you sow cannot come to live unless first it dies. The greek word for death appears there. But he didn't use it at verse 51 , I brought that Gethsemane exmaple to let you realize the word sleep there is not death. Or else that would mean the disciples we're dead when Jesus saw them

achorladey:


Jozzy4: How are they raised , by ressurection ?

Achorladey: Dead people are resurrected, but the "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN" are NOT DEAD, so tell us WHY they NEED RESURRECTION?

Or perhaps those referred to in that article are DEAD ALREADY.

that's why I ask if your understanding of we which are alive are not dying is correct , Tell me why people are presently not going to heaven undying presently since we are now at the time of Christ presence ??

cRobo:


individual difference, I will forever respect any woman who is bold enough to state clear her desire about me

well it all depends on the maturity of the guy

only kids will take such for granted

such ladies are rare and so special its not an act of desperation but going for what you want

guys pleads with girl and also ladies pleads with guys

unless the are kids

Too many kids

achorladey:


One of the events mentioned in these verses is the
‘gathering of the chosen ones.’ (Matt. 24:31) Hence, it
appears that all anointed ones who still remain on earth
after the initial part of the great tribulation has passed
will at some point be raised to heaven before the
outbreak of the battle of Armageddon. - Watchtower, July 15, 2013, p. 8 (Endnote #2 for Paragraph

Is there any difference in your response and the cited material?

The question u ought to ask is:
How are they raised , by ressurection ?

To quote mrZENographer " All the saints both they who sleep and they who live will partake in the resurrection. This is the rapture "

If I ask you what are your beliefs , you will scream Jesus is the way, and all such matters should be left till he comes. You don't do doctrine. But here you are trying to prove one . Interesting

achorladey:
Jozzy4: To be a king and rule with Christ for the thousand years they must experience a RESURRECTION. So when he says some won't sleep, he is not saying they WON'T DIE, but rather unlike those who spent long period in the grave. They would be Ressurection in the twinkling of an eye. No RESTING like others.

MrZENographer: Just hear yourself! What are you saying? Confusion is confusing you. Chai!!

Achorladey: Jozzy4 your last statement states NO RESTING in essence NO SLEEPING or NO DEATH . Which contradict your 'HE IS NOT SAYING THEY WON'T DIE'.

That is what mrZENographer is drawing attention to in his response to your post. Read again and see.

The same Greek word appears when Jesus met the disciples in deep sleep at Gethsemane, I guess it means they are dead ? ? Since you have assumed already ??

Perhaps this will help you will the "WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN" NEED RESURRECTION?

No, they don't . I guess Rev 20:6 is missing in your Bible. To burst your brain: the event of 1The 4:15-17 was timed at Christ's presence or coming in some versions . Are we presently seeing the signs that Christ is present as shown in Matthew 24? If yes , why haven't people started disappearing already ?

While it seems like a good move but even using Professor as minimum qualifications wont still guarantee good governance courtesy of morals and sound characters decaying everyday.

peepydelano:
You ladies should go back and emulate our mothers or the wives of biblical Abraham,David,Solomon and the rest so as to restore sanity in modern marriages.

Do u read the civil war that happened in Abraham's home as a result of having more than one wife ? You guys just hear " Gbos " if you only you know how hard it is to maintain polygamous home unless you are irresponsible. Another fact is : most times your children will often hate you for sharing their mother . You can ask youths who grew up in polygamous homes, most will tell you they will take their mother over their Father anytime , any day. The price is too high man