Janosky:


Which heavenly things do you think you know?
Now use your spiritual wisdom of heavenly things to answer the question:

In heaven,is Jesus Christ the son of his Father just as he was God's son on earth?

Even Emusan ran when he said Godhead dwells in eternity, was Jesus God the son in this eternity . he avoided it like plague.

freshboi88:


Like I told u. This theory is not consistent with scripture.

Out of all the Sons of God, which 1 is called "One and Only". This separation of Jesus with the begotten or one and only means something, don't u think?

Like I said Ur theory that Jesus is created because he is the only Son of God is not consistent. Can a created being be accorded worship in the same breathe with the Father in heaven.

I showed you scripture where that happened.

On earth, Thomas called him My Lord and My God.. He didn't rebuke Thomas.

Which created being has been called Lord and God.

Bros u go defend Ur inconsistencies tire o

Flawed analysis .
Isaac was called Abraham's one and only son too , does that mean Isaac didn't have a beginning ? does that mean Isaac wasn't born like every other Sons of Abraham ? Is Isaac of the same age with his Father ?


Jesus is a son ... Created like other sons.

freshboi88:


You are using human wisdom to analyze heaven things. Your case is not different from Muslim who says God cannot have a son. If he does, who is the mother?.....they ask, does God have a wife.


They use human wisdom, thts wht u r doing.

Be objective for once

16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

[b]All things]/b] were created in him, through him and For him. And yet he himself is created. Isn't this an irony?

From this verse, for him to be created, he had to be created through him n for him...does it make sense

Luke 1:35 says Adam is a son of God , does Adam have a mother ? How was Adam son of God ? The same apply to Every other Sons of God .

Stop ranting , an uncreated being cannot be a son. Father precedes a son. A son has a beginning, that's why God called all his creations Children.

freshboi88:


Should I quote scripture for u again

Berean Study Bible
For God so loved the world that He gave His "one and only Son", that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

There are Sons of God but Jesus is God one and only Son. There is a difference


How he was begotten......no one knows , all we know is

John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that all things were made through him and for him.


So what's Ur point again? Pls ansa y he was worshipped in heaven with the Father?

Begotten means to be produced. .. How did God produce his heavenly sons ?

Freshboi88 ... To know what you Re going into

" The son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God " (Luke 3:38).

Adam got that title because God created him.

Everyone on earth is a children of God because God created them.

Same apply to heavenly creatures , they are also sons of God . that expression is not applied to an uncreated being.

That's why the Father Is not son of anyone.

freshboi88:


Of course I'll reply, Angels are Sons of God but Jesus is The Father's only begotten Son

Is he called " Son of God "

How was he begotten ?

freshboi88:


New International Version
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

If the bolded should not be called worship what do u call it?.... Remember The Father is mentioned in the same sentence as well o incase u want to answer rubbish

You already said worship is not for created beings. It should be understood as honor .

Fine

Angels are called sons of God the Father because He created them , Is Jesus a son of God too ?

You already agree the word " worship " should not be used for created beings . Good move

freshboi88:


If he is just like the angels, why do d angels Worship him? I have pointed that out in Rev 5.

Y accord him the same glory and praise given to the Father.

You cannot defend a stupid idea and still appear intelligent. Pls y do d angels Worship Jesus and give him Glory and Praise

Are angels sons of God ? Is Jesus Son of God too ?

I dare you to reply

freshboi88:


I quoted another version that shows Jesus been worshipped in heaven...in the presence of The Father

New Living Translation
And then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. They sang: “Blessing and honor and glory and power belong to the one sitting on the throne and to the Lamb forever and ever.”

Like I told u the scripture is never wrong, if it appears to contradict then watch your interpretation. Rev 5 shows Jesus been worshipped in heaven.


Y worship him?....if he is created. How can a created being be worshipped on earth and in heaven

This is what have been waiting for , Jesus too is a created being so that word should not be translated worship.

He is a Son of God just like the angels.

achorladey:



You are still ARGUING against the PUBLICATION of the organization you BELONG. The material States.......God had already created the universe, including a LIFELESS PLANET EARTH

You came back and states..........The angels witness the creation of the sea, 70% of what made up the EARTH .. Without this SEA, EARTH is not formed

Is it the 70% water that made God called it EARTH? Or perhaps what name DID the ORGANIZATION called it without 70% of WATER? Let me Help you answer it............LIFELESS PLANET EARTH. Hahahahahaha.

U still refuse to learn, The point was Job 38 refer to when God made the planet itself not creative days .
On which of the creative days were the water formed ?

Emusan:


God is the Author of the Bible but to eliminate human author out of Bible is the height of stupidity.

Human writers . be educated .

freshboi88:


If you have the Holy Spirit on you, u will clearly see that the verse u are referring to as Daniel been worshipped is just nebucadnezzar fulfilling the promise he made in verse 7

6But if you tell me what I dreamed and what the dream means, I will give you many wonderful gifts and "honors". Just tell me the dream and what it means!”

He promised to honor who ever told him his dream. He never worshipped daniel.

New International Version
Then King Nebuchadnezzar fell prostrate before Daniel and paid him honor and ordered that an offering and incense be presented to him.


Some translations would use honor, some would use paid homage, some worship .....it is in terms of the honor he promised the person in verse 6.

Verse 47 New International Version
The king said to Daniel, "Surely your God is the God of gods and the Lord of kings and a revealer of mysteries, for you were able to reveal this mystery."

The preceding verse exposes Ur lies here. Who is the king praising Daniel or Daniel God. Read Ur bible under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, they will not hear, they be reading it like a story book

The bolded is making me laugh , Why do you think versions that use worship are not correct ? Probably the same error apply to those who translate worship for Jesus ?

freshboi88:


First of all u r intellectually barren, U think u can throw verses and quote out of context. David was never worshipped, Nobody ever called him God and Lord. David was only honoured as a king as u would Ur own earthly ruler.
If u have a verse to that effect ring it out Now let me refer u to Rev 5.

Rev 5:13 New International Version
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the "Lamb" be praise and honor and "glory" and power, for ever and ever!"

Why will God share is Glory with his own creature. Please answer.

Can u explain why Jesus is also worshipped in Heaven?

You its like you need glasses .




1 Chro 29:20

And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and WORSHIPED the LORD, and THE KING.

Who is the King that was worshipped here ?

" for God to make David His firstborn isn't because David was created FIRST but the preceding statement is the key here.... "HIGHER THAN THE KING OF THE EARTH"

Which means the firstborn is in RANK or POSITION that's the same thing about Colossians to Jesus. " - Emusan

In fact this bolded should close this thread , David been firstborn in Rank among Kings doesnt change the fact he is a King too, Emusan says thats the same thing about Colossians to Jesus, So firstborn in rank of creation does not exclude Jesus from being created . I love this

Emusan:


Your frustration just begin and you'll cry lass lass

You now realize how stupid you sound. So next time a writer is not an author, unless he himself is the source of what he wrote.

You have been educated now right ?

There is only one source for creation, The Father. 1Cor 8:6

If ALL THINGS(including Jesus) came from the Father and the same ALL THINGS(including Jesus) came through Jesus Christ, isn't that means Jesus came through Himself just as what this thread is all about?

Deluded JWs....

The beautiful thing is it also says THE FATHER, FROM WHOM ALL THINGS ( Jesus included ) CAME .

You are not really wise .

If not because your brain is paining you,

EARTH WAS LIFELESS at the beginning which makes it void and without FORM and THE SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters (Mayim)

Now, here is where your problem lies, the word used in Gen 1:2 translated waters is MAYIM, this word according to STRONG: water, figuratively juice, urine, flood, spring e.t.c

Now, in verse 10 the waters under heaven called YAM (seas) from STRONG: from unused root meaning to roar; a sea (as breaking in noisy surf) e.t.c

Prov 8 also used the word MAYIM which is the reason I said, Prov 8 description fit into Gen 1 while Job 28 isn't.

Now if you look at Job it was SEA that was USED

And it still remains that Gen 1:1 was actually true and you JWs are the liar because the description of Job 38 perfectly fits into the SIX DAYS CREATIVE not the first Creation of heavens and the earth.



You just exposed your ignorance since you couldn't differentiate between Waters and SEAs as used by the Author of Job and Gen 1

And I remember you couldn't answer my question then....

If Angels and Jesus were created before heavens, where would they live?

Your deluded brother who wanted to rescue you said with the Father in eternity....Do you agree with him?

One single question will dismantle all the rants above . point for me : On which day of Creation were the waters FORMED ?


Because at Job 38:8 it says the Angels witness when the waters were birth .


You are not wise I dey tell you

freshboi88:


Daniel need not reject it because in verse 47, The king showed by utterances who he was worship. Daniels God. Abi nah lie......

.
Your initial statement was " Daniel never accepted the Kings worship "

Here you are saying he didn't reject it .

You are a liar , a fraud , Ignorant fellow.

Now that its confirmed that Daniel didn't reject worship, Do you now admit he is God ?

achorladey:


I know e go touch you. The reason you responded with DEPRESSION. Oga na so you shout BRAINDEADS for other thread, you are a GRAND MASTER in that aspects I am equally not COMPETING with you in terms of the LEADING LIGHTS among those DEPRESSED. You be OGA.

You are still ARGUING against the PUBLICATION of the organization you BELONG. The material States.......God had already created the universe, including a LIFELESS PLANET EARTH

You came back and states..........The angels witness the creation of the sea, 70% of what made up the EARTH .. Without this SEA, EARTH is not formed

Is it the 70% water that made God called it EARTH? Or perhaps what name DID the ORGANIZATION called it without 70% of WATER? Let me Help you answer it............LIFELESS PLANET EARTH. Hahahahahaha.

Genesis 1:2 states NOW the EARTH was formless and desolate, and there was DARKNESS upon the SURFACE upon the SURFACE of the WATERY DEEP.
before the FIRST CREATIVE DAY started the PLANET was already CALLED EARTH. Is that not the main point the publication cited by Emusan as published by the ORGANIZATION CONVEYS.

Next time dont join a discussion you have no knowledge about . even a fool when they keep quiet is considered wise. Emusan claimed Job 38 is about creative days . BUT nowhere in the creative days were waters formed . But job 38 mention clearly that The angels witness the forming of the earth . this is not just dry land But the planet itself , As the same Job 38 says The angels saw as the watery deeps were formed . this is not creative days .

Have sense , or borrow one

Emusan:


I do say it that, you people lack simple comprehension....

I didn't say God isn't the Author of the Bible....you can proof me wrong if I said so....my point is eliminating HUMAN AUTHOR from the scripture is the height of stupidity. That's my point!



You're the very one who made a quoted from Wikipedia but unfortunately you're so daft to see how what you quoted exposed your ignorance!

First the definition of an Author from your own source says "An author is the creator or originator of any written work such as a book or play, and is also considered a writer..."

Now, Who are the WRITERS of Bible?

You can see the reason I said to eliminate human Author from the Bible is the height of stupidity.

In fact I had to quote this stupid comment again, you are really deluded Bro. Despite seeing Author is originator and creator you still equate author to writer . why not consult your dictionary before u display this foolishness ?

freshboi88:



This Jwit people are brain dead. [b] Daniel never accepted the king's worship. [/b) They don't understand the meaning of context. They take the bible as a story book.

Even children have more sense than them

Can u quote Daniel 2:6 and Daniel 2:47 for me. Using those two verses prove that Daniel was worshipped

SHOW ME WHERE DANIEL REJECT THE KINGS WORSHIP ? At the count of 1,2,3 failure to do that, I will drag u

freshboi88:


Show me where human beings are worship..this man's head is paining him

Daniel , David , And that Revelation 3:9 he gave you , dont you see it ?


Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and WORSHIP BEFORE thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

David worshipped


1 Chro 29:20

And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and WORSHIPED the LORD, and THE KING.


You can choke on those ones for now , when you agree David and the church members in Philadelphia are Gods . we will talk

.

Emusan:


Note I didn't say God isn't the Source of Bible but eliminating the Human Author is the height of stupidity.

You are stupid, writer is not an author. None of the writers are author they are not the creator or originator of what they wrote

Which brought us back to our initial point, that means Jesus Christ came through Himself since ALL THINGS CAME THROUGH JESUS....

You can't eat your cake and also have it!

Rev 3:14 he gave you earlier and the question you have been avoiding shows how stupid you are again.

Is an arch enemy not an enemy ?

After I exposed your lies and ignorance, you can still come out without shame!

Didn't you see it from your own confused organization that EARTH was first created AS A LIFELESS PLANET?

Which is my point, God creating the Universe INCLINING LIFELESS Planet Earth means Gen 1:1 was already in place before the lifeless planet Earth was PREPARED FOR HABITATION.....

The angels witness the creation of the sea, 70% of what made up the earth .. Without this sea earth is not formed . use your brain , Job 38 is Not just preparation of the dry land . Lie lie


Cc: Barristter07

If you can't see this in your own confused organization article is left from you....

What God first created is a LIFELESS PLANET EARTH which after SIX DAYS CREATIVE began....

If you look at Job 38 you'll see it fits in into the description of the SIX DAYS CREATIVE not A LIFELESS PLANET.



Liar....stop lying...
vs8 says "Who kept the sea inside its boundaries"

Here you said OCEANS plural.....

Like I said, Job 38 fits in into the six creative days God prepared the earth for habitation that's why even creation of heavens wasn't mentioned.

That's why I said your organization is confused

First, I've posted an article here, where your confused organization first said, Jehovah created Jesus then creation of heavens and the earth which INCLUDE THE ANGELS

You haven't counter your claim that CREATED BEING can EXIST in ETERNITY, which is the point that brought out whether Angels were created before earth.

Can a created being exist in ETERNITY?



Lying liar Barrister07 you know that is your attribute as well as other JWs because Devil is your founder.

Creative days began after the waters were already formed . BEFORE THE WATERS ARE FORMED, The angels have been existing , they saw how this waters were formed . [b] which proved they exist before the planet earth itself . Earth in verse 4 is the planet and the first water in it and how it was made was pointed at verse 8 . Sense is far far far from una . no wonder writer became author .


Cc: Barrister 07

Emusan:


I do say it that, you people lack simple comprehension....

I didn't say God isn't the Author of the Bible....you can proof me wrong if I said so....my point is eliminating HUMAN AUTHOR from the scripture is the height of stupidity. That's my point!



You're the very one who made a quoted from Wikipedia but unfortunately you're so daft to see how what you quoted exposed your ignorance!

First the definition of an Author from your own source says "An author is the creator or originator of any written work such as a book or play, and is also considered a writer..."

Now, Who are the WRITERS of Bible?

You can see the reason I said to eliminate human Author from the Bible is the height of stupidity.

Keep shut ... Even blabbing in ignorance

, Writers is not the same as author . Author means creator or originator of the content. I can write for someone and yet not be the author of the Material .

Barristter07:


The bible has only one source . all the men that penned it were medium through which this was done.

" Forty Writers, One Author "

They are just secretaries .

Likewise There is only one source of creation, The Father from whom all things came , Christ is just a medium through as well.

Your brain dead analysis exposed





Liar as usual , Quote where they said Angels were not created before planet earth. ?

You even went to quote the creative days when we are discussing making of the Planet earth itself.


Who told you Job 38 was for the six creative days ?

Verse 7 and 8 says the angels were there when the oceans were created . This refer to the making of planet earth itself . Job 38 is reffering to the period highlighted above .

" Angels were created in the distant past, before the earth existed. When God created the earth, the angels “began shouting in applause.”​—Job 38:​4-7. "

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-are-angels/

Emusan, you are from your Father the Devil. The same Devil even make you ascribe authorship of the Bible to humans

That's how Emusan is, Good u busted that .. This is a post where Emusan says the Bible does not contain the writers point of view yet he is here claiming human authors since he is loosing his ground .


" Get it right anything you received through the inspiration of God comes directly from God. The reason why Holyspirit reveal that statement through Timothy is the point you stated above "void of the writer's point of view" it means all those words is not just an imagination of man but what the spirit of God has revealed through man. " Emusan

https://www.nairaland.com/1313081/bible-word-god

Definition of an author


An author is the creator or originator of any written work such as a book or play, and is also considered a writer. More broadly defined, an author is "the person who originated or gave existence to anything" and whose authorship determines responsibility for what was created.[1] - Wikipedia

How can you be the author when according to Emusan it comes directly from God ?

Emusan is like a fish whose water source is getting drained . So get prepared to see him manufacture words and ideas as he fight to stay relevant.

achorladey:
@ Emusan your last post was really EXHAUSTIVE summary........following from the start when you joined the discussion up till that post.

Well dont blame the JWS if they can't fully COMPREHEND what the GB of the organization says, they are ONLY following the INSTRUCTION and the command of the GB. Its kind of SAD that you picked out so many things out of the numerous ARTICLES and PUBLICATION they give OUT on daily BASIS which they THEMSELVES don't really READ and don't UNDERSTAND. I want to believe you know WHY........

Here it is as a reminder

1.
"In Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in RESEARCH, for there are brothers in the organization who are ASSIGNED to that very THING, …"Watchtower 1967 Jun 1 p.338

From the above it is clear that EVEN to RESEARCH what the ORGANIZATION itself PUBLISH is UNNECESSARY.

2.
km9/07p.3 Question Box
Does"the faithful and discreet slave" endorse independent groups of Witnesses whom meet together to engage in scriptural research or debate?—Matt.24:45, 47.

No, it does not.

There you have it, that is why you see them flogging a dead horse simply because someone up there has not told them ..........."LOOK THAT HORSE IS DEAD" even when every passerby look and SMH at them to SIGNIFY that the HORSE is DEAD

3.

discussing how Witnesses should react toward what they read in Watch Tower publications, Watchtower February 1, 1952,which states inpages 79, 80...........

. . . let us not try to take over the slave’s duties. WE SHOULD EAT and DIGEST and ASSIMILATE what is SET BEFORE us, WITHOUT SHYING away from PARTS of the FOOD because it MAY NOT SUIT the FANCY of our MENTAL TASTE. The truths we are to publish are the ones provided through the discreet slave organization, not SOME PERSONAL OPINIONS contrary to what the slave has provided as timely food.

You see again EVEN if the PART of the FOOD will make them MENTALLY DISEASED or MENTALLY UNSTABLE like one of them used to qualify me in TIMES past. They must not SHY AWAY. They are to GULP it DOWN without questions asked.


4.
Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ COMPLETELY TRUST the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?” Watchtower 2009 Feb 15 p.27

The above is where the WHOLE problems unravel God cannot contradict what he has WARNED about. How can GOD tell us to COMPLETELY TRUST MAN when he equally said WE SHOULD NOT TO DO SO?

Psalms146: 3 Do not TRUST in PRINCES, In MORTAL MAN, in whom there is no SALVATION.

Depression is nearly killing you , How does this concern the topic here ? To think you even supported Emusan who lied and misquote an article about creative days For the making of planet earth itself says so much about your little thinking. You are just looking for avenue to say your nonsense as usual . Get well soon

Emusan:


That's why I said you people lack scriptural understanding.

for God to make David His firstborn isn't because David was created FIRST but the preceding statement is the key here...."HIGHER THAN THE KING OF THE EARTH"

Which means the firstborn is in RANK or POSITION that's the same thing about Colossians to Jesus.

David been ranked Higher doesnt remove him from among kings , does it ? Since that is the same thing with Jesus , it now clear Jesus too was created though the Highest ranked . ceph ni

Emusan:


Only an ETERNAL BEING exists in ETERNITY proof me wrong first before your jumbo mombo....

And if you insist that both Jesus and Angels exist in eternity then it means they are all ETERNAL

These angels must be eternal beings because proof upon proof has been given that they were there when the planet earth was formed , even before the waters of earth where Genesis started . Your name is I G N O R A N C E

Emusan:


You're a liar....

Only eternal being can exist in eternity!

So to say both Jesus and even angels both join the Father in eternity means you lack understand.

Barrister so this guy ended up roasted again. Bros , Angels exist before Genesis 1:1. They are in eternity

freshboi88:


No it doesn't

Let's look at Palsm 89:27

27 I will make him my firstborn son,
the mightiest king on earth.

So if God made David his firstborn does it mean David was God's first creation?

But David na creation ba ?

freshboi88:


I keep telling u that u need the Spirit to understand this and also other backing scriptures. For example, there are other verses that refer to this first born


English Standard Version
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

Can u see Colossian 1:18 explaining better what that first born means

Some people ressurect before Jesus . and if been firstborn of the dead make Jesus at a point a dead person. Does first born of creation not make him a creation too ?

freshboi88:


U keep asking this question and I keep answering it and giving u supporting references.

He is referred as the Firstborn of all creation because is he the first to have died and resurrected. Simple

No Sir, that's a lie . Many died and resurrected before him. Beside we are discussing firstborn as it apply to creation. Who was created first ? That is the first born of creature not he who died and ressurect

freshboi88:


U keep trying to win the argument and not learn. It is a shame u not open minded.

Beginning has more than 1 meaning, u think I can be easily fooled... Hahahaha.......I laugh at u.

According to the dictionary incase u cannot understand things:

Can u see that beginning also means


the background or origins of a person or organization. Which has a synonym of source and origin

At the end nobody can decide to give his or her own interpretation. But to know which interpretation is correct, that interpretation must be consistent across scripture.

Jehovah's witness interpretation contradicts John 1:3-4.

The first stage of something is the correct meaning . or else why would Jesus be described as First Born

Emusan:


I know you want to derail this thread but I won't give you that chance!

Only showing you ridiculous you can be.

So you mean heavens and earth were created before Jesus Christ.....


Waooooo let's see where this will end first!

Is Jesus Christ in the heavens ?