freshboi88:



The funny thing is u guys just make noise and insult yet u have not made any sense. You say Jesus is created yet u cannot prove it.

3God created everything through him,

and nothing was created except through him.

4[b]The Word gave life[/b] to everything that was created,

How can a created being give life?

I saw you saying Jesus is the beginning of creation and you are still blabbing . your case get comma o . someone even define beginning for you as first part of something. Na wa for una

Emusan:


You know I know how to deal with people like you...

Before we continue, can you give us Collins Dictionary of that Rev 3:14 so that we can compare with your statement here!

Yeah just like you end up saying Good people will raised two times , and that There are two judgement . Dundee

If Rev 3:14 actually means Jesus is the BEGINNING OF GOD CREATION as you people claimed, didn't that contradict Genesis 1:1 that says "IN THE BEGINNING God created heavens and the earth"?

Where is your sense
Do heavens include the heavenly beings ?

Barristter07:
..yes the deluded freshboi88 said it , That source is synonymous with BEGINNING , since he accepted that, He should just come forward and tell us Jesus has a beginning already

The guy knows nothing about the topic . its obvious

freshboi88:


Please show me the Bible translation that quotes that verse as Apart from......don't tell me translation. The translation u have dubiously manufactured.

Please show me from scripture there are numerous translations of the bible.. please quote it here for all to see.

Check NASB olodo ..

He showed you strong concordance and ignorance is still smelling over you.

Go and answer the question on Revelation 3vs 14. Someone with a beginning is not created . listen to yourself.

Barristter07:

Here is your statement , Comment number 30. On this thread


" source and origin are synonyms of beginning. " freshboi88


Are you denying this again ? If no , do u accept by that comment you have accepted Jesus have a beginning ?


Answer this

Did he says this ? He Must be deluded

Freshboi88 ... Come and answer this . this thread should be closed already

freshboi88:



So Jesus didn't give life to God's creation is that what u r saying. Why are u contradicting the bible

John 1:4
New Living Translation
The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone.


Who is the Word that gave life to everything God created?...

Dont be a mo.ron , the life here is not creation . not everyone has it. Too shallow

Damisam93:



Good morning Xucxex1997, The bible is ever true, the truth itself the perfect and absolute will of the father. The two quote from the bible are valid
All we need is the holyspirit to interpret some bible passage to us and using head knowledge or the mind is inadequate. When someone die in sins without repentance judgment comes immediately and this can be seen in Luke 16:22-23

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luke 16:23‭-‬24 KJV

Don't quote what you dont understand... This is what happen when u take a parable as reality , Emphasis on " cool my tongue " , are you aware you just said people go to hellfire with their FLESHLY TONGUE ?? Explain yourself here cos it contradict the baseless assumption that the man in this story is a dead spirit. A spirit has no flesh.

Judgment is administered to a sinner and cast into hell fire although hellfire is not the final resting phase, lake of fire is but that not the issue now. However for the dead rising from the grave means that when Jesus finally descend mid-air in the heavens, definitely we have some Saint that has died before so they will rise from there unconscious state(not in bodily form) and ascend to meet Jesus. Also when Jesus come, there will probably be some humans living at that particular moment in time, and we will have believers and sinners alike but the part of the sinner is judge already so the Saint present at that moment will ascend too after the dead Saint who were believers (born again when alive) ascend first.

I hope this explains the question.

You guys pervert scripture
If you are correct , how come those who died in the SEA are not in this hellfire ?

Xucxex1997:
The bible says after death comes judgment but the same bible says that when the messiah come the dead will rise from their graves and they all be judge

Pls explain this to me

Read the entire bible ... None of those whom Jesus raised from death claimed to have been judged, Jesus even mention that Lazarus IS SLEEPING . So the verse is not mentioning immediate judgement after death .

But which judgement ? Act 17:31 answers ' GOD HAS SET A DAY to judge the entire earth.

This comes after all the dead have risen from their graves or sleep as Jesus said. So its not contradictory , There is a judgement day but its after the dead have risen. For now they are sleeping

Apination:

It seems you didn't understand a thing I said. Let me break it down for you to understand.
For example, you have two names Gabriel and Alonso, then I decide to fuse both names by swapping the vowels in both names, maybe because I don't feel like calling you Gabriel anymore. So we have something like: Gabriel+Alonso=Gabrool. Then I start calling you GABROOL, does that make sense or does that become your name?

Also we have YAHWEH+ADONAI=YOHWAH which is an hybrid name because the Jews felt unworthy to call the original and it is what was translated as JEHOVAH .

Do u have any problem with other translated words I shown you earlier. If you are so fixated on correct pronunciation, Then stop calling those ones too . in fact stop using Jesus. , Jesus by Jewish name is Yeshua , but the Greeks called him Iesus in the Greek scriptures , How is Yeshua and Iesus related ?? I demand an explanation.

Apination:

There's no letter J in Hebrew. These names you have mentioned are translated not original and mind you Jesus in Hebrew is YESHUA.

In English, the letters I and J both had the same sound for a long time, and before that, J didn't exist.


This is why a lot of Hebrew words that start with י, which makes a “y” sound, became words with I and J in English.

Example:

ישעיה = “yesha’ya” = Isaiah
ירמיה = “yirm’ya” = Jeremiah
יעקב = “ya’akov” = Jacob

Likewise Jehovah is the norm for English speakers.

Incrizz:


Oh! I think I now fully understand what your concerns are.

You think there is no everlasting torment.
Kindly know that there is, and put your hope in JESUS.

God is kind, but He is also severe.

Kindly know that our earthly parents learned discipline and punishment of a wrong from God, not the other way round.

God is very kind and loving, but He will discipline those whom He loves and punish the evil doers.

He has revealed this to us in His word so that we can desist from evil by the power of the blood of JESUS.

(But HE will forgive any evildoer of wrong doing who believes in the saving blood of Jesus if he asks for forgiveness and repent).

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Now to your questions:
From your submission from your own Bible above, in verse 4, the fallen Angels are held in hell until the Day of Judgement, after which they will be cast into the lake of fire.

The fallen angels, or the ungodly who are unfortunate to be cast into the lake of fire AFTER judgement, will be tormented forever.
I.e Concerning the fallen angels bound up in hell, when death and hell are cast into the lake of fire, the content of hell and death, also will follow them into the lake of fire.

This is why I say so:

Revelation 20:14
“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

So, those fallen angels and the ungodly that are in hell will die two times; tormented for ever.

And this is what happens in the lake of fire (check out verse 10 and 11 below:

Revelation 14:9-11
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,”

10 “The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:”

11 “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”

Revelation 20:10
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

And just in case you think it is for only those who receive the mark of the beast, and the beast and the Antichrist, that would not be correct. See why I say so:

Revelation 20:15
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Babes, as I write this I feel like weeping. Hell,
Hell fire, or the lake of fire was created solely for the devil. But the devil has sworn that he won't go down alone but will pull as many of God's children that he can with him because he knows that God loves us.

But thank God, He sent Jesus to die and pay for our sins. The day we believe this simple message and ask God for forgiveness and turn completely to Him, He gives us the power to overcome all the schemes and wiles of the devil.

Mathew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Babes, The devil hates all of us as an enemy BUT God loves us as a Father.

Revelation 20:10 will explain everything up here. Including Matthew 25:41,46

According to Revelation 20:10 , Satan has the same end with the wild beast and false prophet , Who is this Wild beast to begin with ?

Apination:

He did and I clearly pointed that out in Scripture. There's no letter "J" in Hebrew, so there's no way God could have called himself that.

Joshua , Jeremiah , Jehonabad

All this Hebrew names got there " J " from where ?

MadeBoy:
I don't like anybody listening my prayers not even my family members. I have not been praying since she came and the first time this year I miss church service.

After all the prayer and church service... Fornication is allowed?

Nigerians

Ladylite:


He should not mention prayer... He allowed it. It is fooooolish to complain about what you initially permitted.

Get that into ya head

How someone can even still claim to be Godly and prayerful and still commit fornication spree baffles me.

Janosky:


Trinitarians twist ,deny and alter the truth..
LIARS they are....
See the proof here.
Compare Prov 8:22 and Genesis 14:19,22.
King James Bible
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

Christian Standard Bible
He blessed him and said: Abram is blessed by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,

Contemporary English Version
and said to Abram: "I bless you in the name of God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.

Good News Translation
blessed him, and said, "May the Most High God, who made heaven and earth, bless Abram!.

Verdict:
Is the Wisdom of Proverbs 8:22-30 a person?
Is the Word of John 1:1 a person?
Answers : YES !

Prov 8:22-30, 1Cor1:24,30. John 1:1a
The Word & Wisdom personified is Jesus Christ, "the first born of every creature" Col 1:13-15.

A round of applause. Case closed @red

ajokeade920:
The comments I see here is so disheartening..Las Las love na scam

Its really sad I agree ... But you can't remove the women folks from blame. Women make sex too cheap this days. Do u know some people start dating and within first three days they have had sex countless time ? So why won't this men just be hoping from one girl to another ? U see women are not totally blameless.

ajokeade920:
The comments I see here is so disheartening..Las Las love na scam

Its really sad I agree ... But you can't remove the women folks from blame. Women make sex too cheap this days. Do u know some people start dating and within first three days they gave had sex countless time ? So why won't this men just hoping from one girl to another ? U see women are not totally blameless.

chivera018:
Telling naija men to forgive cheating wives would be like telling them to drink sniper. Even the one that has numerous side chicks won't like their wives to cheat on them. When they cheat they remember men are polygamous in nature and preach forgiveness, when a woman cheats they label all Nigerian women sluts and irresponsible.
The glaring hypocrisy though.

Double standard though. I agree ... I think if a faithful guy decided not to forgive. I will understand. But for the one that fools around. Its total hypocrisy

CAPSLOCKED:


THEY'RE ALREADY EXPLAINING IT AS USUAL. "YOU CAN'T QUESTION GOD" AND "MYSTERIOUS WAYS".

is that all you see ?

Sheikwonder:


Again another fallacious response. Do angels die? Those ones that "rebelled" against God and disobeyed him, did they die? They were banished. Even Revelations says that Satan and his hosts are banished to the bottomless abyss. So stop being superfluous and saying living forever isn't the same as being immortal. According to the Bible, spirits do not die. Angels are spirits, they do not die.

Fallacy Sir


" What do You want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to DESTROY us? I know who You are--the Holy One of God!" Mark 1:24

Angels begging Jesus not to destroy them, can You destroy what is immortal ?

That solidify my point that Living forever is not same as Immortality, What the tree of life represented was immortality.

Sheikwonder:



So God didn't know Adam would sin? So he's not all knowing then? Whose view now is unfounded in scripture, yours or mine? Free will is an illusion. The case of Judas comes very much to mind. Someone had to betray Jesus "for scripture to be fulfilled". Like you already said, God is not a liar and since it had already been said it must happen. So tell me the free will anyone destined to betray Jesus has?






Free will is an illusion.

Sorry been offline .

You are muddling issues .. That God use selective foreknowledge proves he doesnt override freewill I think that's clear, Now talk about prophecy ... Prophecy doesn't go against freewill. Prophecy would definitely happen But it doesnt in anyway tamper our freewill . let me cite an example :

Jesus said to his 12 disciples including Judas ...


" Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" . matt 19:28

Jesus prophesied that his disciples will sit on twelve thrones... Judas was there . yet Jesus said " YOU " .


But Judas played himself out of the fulfillment of this prophecy when he became unfaithful... But does this mean this prophesy as Failed ?? No , Someone else named Mathias replaced Judas.

So peoples attitude and lifestyle determine if they will be the characters in a prophecy or not.


Note; the scripture only says a close friend will betray Jesus and that's to make sure Jesus paid the ransom price for the sons of Adam. Judas if he was faithful won't have fulfilled this prophecy. Act 1;21 shows there are other men very close to Jesus apart from the disciples that could fulfil this prophesy because he was a THIEF as reported in the scripture

Sheikwonder:


OK. So let's back up.

So you're saying God gave man a choice between life and death. Eat the tree of good and evil, you will surely die. Don't eat, you live forever. But that still doesn't explain the purpose of the tree of life. It also brings to fore the problem of freewill and God's omniscience. Look at it like this, God already knew from the beginning the outcome when he decided to create the trees of good and evil and the tree of life. He knew from the beginning what Adam would go for. In that regard, Adam wasn't presented with any choice but rather an "illusion of choice". Which still makes it all the more pointless to have a tree of life in the garden. A tree which he would either never eat from or which would have been useless anyway if he had the opportunity to eat from it as he would have had eternal life already. In any case it brings us back to square one.

your assumption that God know Adam will sin is unfounded in scripture . Yes God has power to foreknow BUT HE doesn't exercise such powers in matters of freewill . I can cite numerous examples in the bible . but take this one Jeremiah 26:2,3 after asking Jeremiah to go preach for the people , he said " PERHAPS /MAYBE " they will listen. does that ring a bell ? u dont use perhaps when u already predict the outcome.

so there wasn't an illusion of choice

Lamentations 3:33 explains it well " For it is not in his Heart to Afflict or Grieve the sons of men [humans ] "

its not his in heart to scam anyone. He gave them freewill and they exercise their own choices.

Sheikwonder:


OK....did you read my post to comprehend the contradiction I explained? If man was created to live forever why then was there a tree of life in the garden? Also, how would earth have coped with catering to the needs of billions upon billions of people who wouldn't die?

tree of life signify immortality ... one can live forever and yet not immortal. for example angels has been existing for billion of years but they are not immortal. immortal means can't die. but someone living forever still have his existence dependence on his obedience to a superior being .

Sheikwonder:
Hi everyone,

It's been quite a long time since I posted stuff here. Anyway while doing some chores today a thought crossed my mind and I will share it here. I'm open to debate from religious and irreligious folks alike. Here we go:

If you're a Christian, you're probably familiar with some of the fantastic stories in Genesis such as the Tower of Babel, The Great Deluge, The Talking Serpent, and so on. I will however limit the scope of this thread to one particular story and it revolves around events that took place in the Garden of Eden.

The Bible tells us that death came to the world through sin. Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus. What we can extrapolate from this therefore is that if Adam and Eve had not fallen, man would probably have lived forever. Yet this raises questions as well as contradictions which I'll explain below.

The first obvious challenge is that if man lives forever there would be the issue of overpopulation to deal with. According to some estimates, the total number of humans who have ever lived on earth is in excess of 110 billion! So imagine a world today with at least 110 billion people in it who simply would not die. The earth doesn't have the resources to cater for that staggering number.

he who says Be fruitful and Multiply can definitely discontinue the process once the capacity of fruit is achieved .

besides, We dont know if other planets are projects to accommodate more humans

so this aspect in my view Is not standard enough

Let's move on to another issue. After they had sinned and just before they got banished from the garden, Genesis 3:22 tells us something interesting:

"Then the Lord God said, 'Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

The above verse presents a contradiction. On the one hand we're made to believe from the Bible that death only came about through sin, hence no sin, no death and man lives forever. But in the verse above it appears that man was never designed to live forever anyway. Which was why God banished man from the garden so that he won't eat of the tree of life. So I'm a little confused. Was man created to live forever initially? If yes, what then was the point of having the tree of life? If no, and man was meant to die, why blame man for sinning when he was always going to die anyway, whether he sinned or not?


I hope I've made my case clear. Anyone who can shed light on this is appreciated. Thank you.

No contradiction sir , after they sinned ... eating the tree of life would automatically Made them EVADE the consequence of their actions , if that happens Satan will be right and God a liar. didn't Satan say they won't die ?

achorladey:


After all no be person wey die them dey resurrect? Dem dey RESURRECT person WEY DEY ALIVE?

How can anyone be surprised at your low comprehension after all angel of Satan can still slap someone heavy in the Kingdom of Jesus . empty people , no wonder Jwfact author who claim to find better revelation ended up renouncing the bible itself.

rottennaija:


See! I have met your kind many time. When the rehearsed line they have is finished, they meet a brick wall.

Las, Las, they run. Even the so-called spiritually matured ones like your Co, Elders. Las las, they run and then the favourite apostate name comes in for their inability to respond.

Las las, you don run.

Like u are running now ?

Since u can respond , go back to that post ... IT WILL mess u up real bad. That gibberish u uttered will always be on Nairaland.

achorladey:



This is the highest you will get from him is the BELOW.........the CONFUSION is REAL. The GETHSEMANE connection made it into SOMETHING else. Even in GETHSEMANE they ARE NOT DEAD Hahahahaha

THEY WON'T NEED TO SLEEP OR BE IN A SLEEPING MODE BEFORE THEY ARE RESSURECTED . THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY WILL NOT DIE, TO EXPERIENCE RESURRECTION , THERE MUST BE DEATH........................(Jozzy4, 2020)

Coming from a brain dead human who said everyone on earth is in heavenly places . am I suprised u can't comprehend the topic ? No

rottennaija:

They would rather blame Jesus for it as Maximus69 is doing. Of course, he is copying from their gb.

St. Matthew 7:16 You can detect them by the way they act, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit. You don't pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles.

St. Matthew 7:17 A healthy tree produces good fruit, and an unhealthy tree produces bad fruit.

St. Matthew 7:18 A good tree can't produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can't produce good fruit.

Empty human. U don run ?

U see that single word " Human " at Rev 21:3,4 it will frustrate your life seriously.

rottennaija:


The second most foolish JWs I have met. Elders are what? Do we have spiritual beings that are elders? Nonsense

You don't have sense .
Daniel 7:9 MSG bible

“As I was watching all this, “Thrones were set in place and The Old One sat down. His robes were white as snow, his hair was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, its wheels blazing. A river of fire poured out of the throne. Thousands upon thousands served him, tens of thousands attended him. The courtroom was called to order, and the books were opened. "

I guess God is an human and not a spirit .


Cc: rottennaija

Princessabby99:
I feel for viewing centres

Hmmmm so serious .

Highcuerayte:
There is only one Judgement.

When ?

rottennaija:

No. You are for talking about a scriptures without providing references. Anyway, you learn from your deceptive religious organisation that quote sources without providing references so that it would not be researched on.

If you can't put your brain to work , I can't help u .