Pope Xander VII:

People assume that for us to be Atheists, we must have all the answers. There are still a lot of things both science and religion can't answer.

yet u atheists want Christians to giv you satisfactory ANSWERS to all your questions. You ar openly admittg you dont need to hav all the answers to believe in what you believe yet you still choose to believe in what you believe. In short all the right answers WILL NOT MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR BELIEVG IF YOU DONT WANT TO.
Atheism is based on faith eventually not logc or reasong.
The catholics still cling to idol wrship even though the Bible condemns it. They pray thru "mary" even though the bible contains numerous scriptures counterg the practce. At d end of d day, its not knowledge of d truth thts the issue but wat they prefer .
They love it as it is. Bible or no Bible! Same 4 atheism.

Joyce is 70! My oh my.
She looks 40ish!
Ok. She takes good care of her body.
Tht said, men will find anythg abt a womn seductve and blame d womn for d whims in their own hearts . Take d woman out of sight and let only her voice b heard and men will still lust for her and blame it on d wmn.

Actually, there's no where in d bible tht said a miracle needed to b born out of necessity.
When elijah was commanded by some soldiers he called fire down on them. Wen he said it will not rain there was no reason to lock up d heavens for months.
Elisha did likewise.
But this fella if he was so intoxicated shud hav first tested his faith on less threateng circumstances and won b4 launchg out on open sea in full glare.
Its like som1 blvg God to heal them of life threateng disease when he has never blved God to heal him of headache. Or tryg to blv 4 N1m when uve never believed for N10k. Wen d rubber hits d road they'll see tht d whole faith thing is not what they thought. Not as easy peasy as the preacher book author made it seem.

Hahaha. He'll learn his lesson in heaven.
At least he died for wat He believed in. "Dont know if it was temptg God".
Come to think of it if Jesus did it why can't his followers too?
After all Jesus said greater works will his followers do.

highyo: Daddy G.O of RCCG, MFM, WINNERS, AND CAN PRESIDENT. One thing I want you all to understand is this. Whosoever much is given to, much would be required.

It is much more better to be a church member and go to heaven than to die and go to hell with the title, Pastor, Reveren, Bishop etc. God has only known you by your name and he's not a respecter of any man.

I want you to understand something. The level of your holiness as a church member can qualify you to enter the kingdom of God but can hindered you as a Pastor, G.O, Rev etc
heed to warning and correction

The love of God towards david, cause God to send Nathan to him to warned him about his errors.

I want you to know that david has all the power to even kill Nathan for coming to challenge him with those words, but he never do that, instead, he humbled himself and heed to correction.

He realised that he was nothing before God. He realised that God has every chance to kill him immediately he commited that crime.
Achan never has the opportunity of repenting, even Saul too.
He was just a shephard before the lord enthrone him to be king over isreal

The same thing applied to you all. You have once live in the mud before the lord called you into the light. You have never once dream of being a General Supretendent of a church one day, but because you were truthful with the one talent given to you by the lord, now he has given you 10 more talent.
I understand we are not angels, we are human, because of your title, that doesnt mean you can't sin against the lord and the lord can't correct you.
The lord has being sending different kind of Nathan to you, like bro Sadiq, Evg Funmilayo, Linda, Emmanuel Oghenetega etc. Even the vision I myself have towards Pastor Adeboye too. Even if you will all argue with linda testimony that she claim to die, the rest never die, nither do I die either. God is the creator of heaven and earth and can use whatsoever he desire.

Do not call God warning a lie, just to make your member relax and feel okay. Let them run away if they want to.

One thing I know very much is that, God love this for Great men of God and will not want them to perish,
Pastor Adeboye has did many great work for God, going to villages to villages in preaching the gospel, and many that had after death expirience like Pastor Yakubu, Sampson Emmanuel all saw his building how big it is in heaven. Will you now take a risk of loosing all this things?

I want you to know that the most dangerous enemy is pride.

Come back to God and plead for mercy.

I was a member of MFM and I can still testify to it that Olukoya preach more of holiness. But till now, I do not know why he's included. But one thing I'm sure of is, God is not a God of confusion. We only see you in church. If you have done something wrong, come out and say it publicly, than confessing your sins in hell for ethernity. God sees every thing done in secreat. He will not lie.

Oritsajafor, what relationship does an unbeliever has with a believer? Is there any love between darkness and light? Turn away from politice and focus on the sheep dedicated to you.

I know some of their member will want to defend them. But before you do that, I want you to know that, I do not have anything against any of these men of God, infact Mummy G.O, and Daddy G.O, of RCCG, CAC, and Deeper life pictures are what I use as my screen saver just to show how I love them all.

Members, you will be judge alone. Not by what your pastor preached to you, but by what is in the bible. Live according to the word of God, live it, eat it, and sleep with it. Exalt the word of God than your G.O. Doctrine. Many member will get to heaven before their pastor
UMA UKPAI
OYAKILOME
OKOTIE
T.B. JOSHUA
T.D JAKE
DUKAR WILLIAM
BILLY GRAHAM
CREFLO DOLLAR
LAZARUS MOUKA
D. MIYERIJESU
MADAM IDHAOZAR

you all are still living. We all know you here on Earth. Will we see you in heaven? Heed to warning

if you hav an issue with them, write to these men of God directly . It wud b more effectve and better received not these garbage u splattered here .
You are not God's adviser .He wont consult you concerng his ministers. Neither do you know enuff to make an objectve assessment . Meang this lenghty write up is nothg but anoda spew of personal opinion.

Princewell2012: My only concern about the whole thing is when cumuyi and adeboye comdemned sister linda's massage and warn that, their church members should not watch or buy the cds, now is pastor cumuyi telling me that that all what is sister linda said is false, even when they have bible backup, just because u re affected directly or indirectly, atleast as a pastor that everybody is looking up to you, there is a better way to go about it or even correct some than to comdemn the whole massage, therefore drawing people back to the world, those cds have won souls more than the church has ever won in decade.

show some respect and spell the name correctly. It's Kumuyi not tht
jargon u wrote.

Java cant acess memory directly. The other languages can thru pointers.
The other languages can tell you ,programmatically,the size of a data type, java cant.
For feature by feature comparison and differences, google is your friend.

ToyinDipo:

No offence, but I wish I could know the 'little programs' you have been able to write so far with notepad, because you definitely don't sound like a genius that can do a lot with notepad.

hmmm. This thread is still on.
@javadctor
i dnt write for you. I express myself. My thoughts on programmg etc.
What happens after i post is immaterial. In my opinion d arrow has left d bow.
Read my views and urs and other ide proponents and THINK on it for a while-it may sink in or not.

"you scroll down the write ups "
- the equivalent of a yawn or mind-switchg.
Actually, in real life i've notced tht ppl either hav an aptitude for
non-utilitarian discussions , i.e philosophical musgs, or not.
You are not the type philosophcl type.
As programmers, you can get by with over utilitarian thinkg and ideals , infact typical programmg is a kind of artisanry . Artsans dont muse. But you cud learn to access technology at a more philosphcl level,at most you ideas cud b appreciated and implemnted by a notable audience at worst, u simply aired ur thoughts.
The ideas cud b developed or expanded on l8r.

One of d points ur type made was d assessmnt of non tool usage on two typical but shabby metric: time and money . Lookg only from d business perspectve, ignorg the user experience metrc. User xperience is hard if not impossble to measure but it has far reachg ramifcations thn the typical proft outlook.
You also ignore the inherent opportunity cost from d choice one makes. Its not as shallow as u try to make it.
Two ur cause of debate is trivial: development methodologies.
If i said i write my software by machine language ur arguments about my method being too inefficient for business purpose wud b plausble but ur debate is frm narrow thnkg.
Open ur mind. Unproven non absolute tradition cannot be extolled to the level of ABSOLUTE TRUTH.


@toyindipo
u know better thn to act so naive.
You want me to prove myself to u Or the ide-proponents.
Only a fool wud do tht.
Your opinions dnt matter and changes nothg.
Just think for a while wat these guys and you are saying:
"without (optional) tool x (ide in this case) you cant develop software.
Even if you hav the individual tools necessary to develop software but not in d form they
are familiar with".
Psychology,theyre (and u) projectg their
notions into their analysis while tryg t appear objectve. Smh.

"i wish to know THE LITTLE programs YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE to write with so far with notepad "
.Keywrds here :write, little, "been able".
It takes a genuis to use a text editor to write programs. Except the editor he is usg is bordered on d left by anoder program and below by anoda program . In other words in an ide!
With the ide you can thnk and produce the logc needed to write non little programs without d ide ur thnkg is impaired except of course you are a genius.
Thts y ordinary people use ides.
It mixes the logc properly and pulls it out onto the editor from their head.
If you forgo the ide u forgo this capability and remain handcapped only able to jerk out "little" programs!
Wow! U do thnk logcally.



From d nature of d fanaticsm dsplayed, it wont b suprisg if logcl responses are ditched for abusive tirades. Keep ur minds open . Evaluate ur beliefs.

Whichever way there is always a price tag.

Follow ur heart and incur dissaproval frm peers and others

Follow the norm and avoid sanctions but live with dissatisfaction

Stay with a tool u dnt like and accumulate resentment while usng the it.

Forge ur own tool and incur time and money cost craftg somthg after your heart.


Learn d tool till it bcomes intuitve and incur time and focus cost

forge your own tool and grow them organically usg the time it wudve taken to learn anoda tool.

Control and streamline more of your development process at xtra cost
upfront
or giv up more control for peer approval and less cost.

Save the organization money doing as your told

enrich your career life and satisfaction implementg your ideas - which may or may not have future monetary value but may hav other greater non monetary impact.


Whatever dev choice we make costs and benefits attach.
Money and time arent d only factors to consider. Theyre other variables too.

This haggling will never reach consensus, so let me summarse .
You've made absolute statements
-tht any1 not usg an ide CANNOT develop professional level quality software in decent time.
You've thrwn in the nebulous concept of REAL PROJECT to make ur point.
In essence ,to you, without an ide a programmer cant handle a lot of files.
You allege inflexibility and unyieldness of non-ide users.
On my part i advocate optg to code to ones style rather thn use uncomfortable tools,to you, only conceding if necessary. Adaptg to solve problems. This means if a text editor is ur thng use it and build your development practces around your style and convenience. Usg this approach, you stay creatve and flexible but you dnt confrm thoughtlessly.
this is the bottleneck and contention btw my types and tool advocates like you. On d debuggg side,applyg this principle the programmer will find a suitable debugger learn it,if it is unintuitve-to him even if its ravg popular he'll ditch it and find a more convenient one or write his own.not blindly download a 200-600mb+ file just so he can use the debugger!! The same goes for profiling.
it's slower in d short run but superior in d long run. For One, he learns to think originally not typically. One of ur advocates cudnt imagne how on earth a programmer can debug without the usual ide tool for tht. This is classcal typical thinkg. Meang in a non ide situation he cant function.
A thread on this forum is of som1 who cant package his program-he's usg an ide.
On one of the links i posted,the person admitted to being helpless without the ide taking an entire day to do what in d ide cudve taken 10mins!!

The key is mind nimbleness and dexterity not tool adherence.
Your mind is the issue not d tool
,if d tool isnt around the programmer shud b able to function effectvely by imrovsg.
On the being in a rut issue. My take is a wrker who isnt updated in his field will lose momentum but they're more important issues that take priority e,g in java theyre new and more powerful api's tht obsolete older ones. Learng and usg them well takes time.
Theyre newer promisg languages.
Framewrks,methodologies.
Stayg abreast on these while being ignorant abt somethg as trivial as a build tool is wiser.
A smart and indvdualstc programmer knows wen to ditch his method. But not until its apparent tht his style is unacceptably inefficient.

Booty butt chic: Dis bigots and religious war,nawaooo..........u people don't like peace at all....christians hating on christians.......na una sabi abeggg!

open blatant idolatory in the name of the Christian God should b spoken against. Any sincere truth seeker in catholicism shud compare its teachg against the word of God for his own good.

I mean main stream typical bibles . Genesis to revelation only. Not sect endorsed stuffs .
I ask cuz any casual reader of typical bible is bound to stub his foot on bumps tht clash with what he's been fed all the while in catholicism. He/she wud hav to purposely choose to continue in error afterwards.

Here's a verse: ephesians 2 v 18:
"for through him (Jesus Christ) we both have access to the Father by one spirit".
Through who do you access God?

The nxt one is a K.O.

Hebrew4v14-16:

"Therefore since we have a great high priest .... Jesus the Son of God"
A priest approaches God on behalf of His people. Clearly Jesus is the middle man.

15: for we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathise with our weaknesses , but we have one who has been tempted in every way,just are-yet as without sin."
Again, scriptures shows tht Jesus is qualified to represent man. He's worn the shoe bf and knows where it pinches. He understands our struggles.

16:
the invitation.
"let us then approach the throne of Grace (timidly,that God wud zapp us? No!) with CONFIDENCE ,
(y approach ?) so tht you may receive (you dont leave the same way u came) mercy and find grace to help us in time of need. "(in time of need wat dyu do? Call on mary/saint x or "come boldly to the throne"?)

Ppl exalt Their experience above d wrd because faith isnt easy or natural.
But is possible under the right conditions.
And most christians are not taught how to actvate d wrd 4 themselves.
So the church is guilty of this backwardness.
House rent due in 3 weeks and you just lost your job . No savgs.
"my God shall supply all your needs " will look and sound like rubbish. You cud slap the person quotg it to u.
35-year old sister without husband. She goes to church unfailingly, no man lookg her way yet all d young girls she mentrs are givg out iv's. The long face she'll b wearg cud scare a masquerade. Tell her "be anxious for nothg ../cast all ur care upon the Lord " and she cud bite your head off.
An employee nearg retiremnt car he doesnt hav house he hasnt built . The "wise" thng is to "declare his age"- tell him its a sin to lie.
A govnor who was an ardent church member is now in a position to control billions . It is taken for granted tht he will steal enuff,the problem is wen he steals too much but if he doesnt steal generations will make him a laffg stock. Thou shall not steal looks foolsh soundg. Infct, he believes tht the opportunity he has is God given.

Forget all those pretty sermons in church , this the test of tru christianity. And it aint gonna b easy 1 bit. Even Jesus sweated blood bendg his will to God's will.

Thank God he survved. God is merciful.
But wen ppl escape calamity they sober up and strt talkg God bf then mostly God is at the bottom of d their mind. Its somthin mor frivolous occupyg rentg and lodging and breedg in all the rooms of their mind. But thnk God for His mercies for not being vindctve and frsakg.

Ddy:

Who is God u celebrate? Check d meaning of God in dictioary. If u ar a christian that means u worship the God of isreal. Who is this God of Isreal,his name is YAWEH. We have many gods around. Call him by his name nt God. For me i worship YAWEH,JEHOVAH.I AM THAT I AM. Thats his name not God. Ask any isrealite the name of thier God he will tell u. i hope u have a god in ur place & pple worship it. So my dear dnt worship God bt worship YAWEH. tnx

your bible doesnt hav a new testament right?
"and may the God of peace ... "
"my God shall ... "
u must b jw.
And there's more to the cult jw thn their insistence on trvial hair splittg.

@2buff

if u said i dnt know wht i'm talkg about you're rambling emotionally.
Your points are subjectve and illogcal.
I said on the time thng tht software development is a function of time.. Tht sounds like senseless talk to u rght?
I said tools hav nothg to do with capability and final prodct- source code - created either way ,ide way/hand crafted way, bears no marks of d tools used to create it.
Meanin at the end of d day, the source code is just literate logc to b consumed by a machine.
How d source was derved bcomes irrelevant - of course i dnt know jack about software.
The issue bringg this talk is how it is made whch brought up the debuggg issue:
again like anoda ide advocate,you cant distinguish btw the concept and d model of wat a debugger is.
So to u any1 not on an ide and therefore not usg the tools the ide provides is miles backwrd.
If i ask you about wat unit testg is you may thnk in terms of junit or testng.
This spirit is the anti thesis to developmnt in software- inability to accept thnkg alien to yours.
On the 5000 file question - wat partcular tool wud b used to address d problem? The editor , profiler, debugger or compiler?
Your problem is an editor problem tht a capable editor can handle.

"If i were ur employee - rather if u had an employee who used a text editor n compiler..
. Or in a wrkplace where they hav preset rules on wat tools to use etc.. "

This example is unnecessary. I'll never be ur employee and teams/workplaces hav conventions.

On the otherhand, if you're a manager who frces your wrkers to use tools they dnt like using threats of any kind
(because of some nebulous prodctvty gain ,your nthg but a tyrant and a managerial misfit. A happy wrker is a prodctve wrker.
A smart wrker will adapt wen faced with limitations-includg tool limitation.
.freedom fosters creativity.creatvty is wat brought software this far and made it a standout field. Fghtg freedm is sure way to stagnation. Like i said earlier "open ur mind." )

"The 2000 hour analogy sounded like rambling to you.". Or rather you ddnt understand wat i was sayg therefore wen you dnt understnd wat som1 who has a diffrent view point is sayg you conclude the problem lies with the person and not you. You brand it rubbish.

"i'll go out on a limb and say you dont care about software testg" -
your being polite you wud also say i dnt
employ any accepted software engineerg principle.

Wat libraries wud one reinvent if he ddnt use an ide?
Any1 not usg an ide wud create alternatves tht wud make him as prolifc as an ide user. And with less cruft. Your ides weigh in at almost a gig (for the full stack) or in d low hundreds of megs.
Some forgoes this in favor of lighter weight tools and you assume he's a novce.
Your tone is condescendgly arrogant.
You've made allegations and belittling conclusions from your pedestal as an ide user.
I wish i werent jaded by your reply.
Like i said to jeff as a programmer you are suppose to be creatve.
Wat you and the other fellow call "industrial strenght " applications are nothing but larger sized applications . You set of folks more or less say tht som1 not usg tool x for developmnt lacks the mental and intellectual mettle to handle larger jobs. Mutter ur words to yourself so u can hear urself thnk. You're spoutg illogicity.
Nb: you cudve used a more general term instead of insultg all the php programmers.
Theyre many in tht realm u cant hold a candle up to.

A smart person is flexible and adaptable. The only time a person cud b accused of foolshness and blind obstinacy is wen he clings to far inferior ways wen superior alternatves exists.
Where d difference is clearly signifcant. E.g using foot instead of a vehcle. In software dev ths analogy maynot fit because the difference mayb insignifcant. The alternatve is more convenient .. Bck to d foot vs vehcle,axe vs chain saw example none of the alternatves are comfortable by any stretch even for short effrts.
The users cant really improve their tools.
Many programmers are swtchg from ides to slim tools. And some software shops allow freedom of choice of tools to their devs.
Watever u thnk is ur opinion.
It doesnt matter. Theyll always be non ide programmers.

viewpoints:

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/183881/how-do-you-debug-without-an-ide

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/39798/being-ide-dependent-how-can-it-harm-me

All these mog that want to impose their ideologies on their members. Sure there are idolatarous scents around chrstian holidays like easter and christmas owg to the odious pagan influence of catholicsm but tht doesnt warrant thrwg the baby out wth d bath water.
Re educate members and excise the pagan aspect.
Its even unbiblical to not celebrate.
Wen God created the wrld he commemorated it.
Wen God promised to never destroy d wrld with a flood he commemorated it with a rainbow.
When God slew d frst born of egypt and finally broke pharoah's obstinacy ,he commemorated it with d feast of passover.
How much more shudnt d church commemorate d day a MAN wud b born to save the wrld from sin.
It shudnt b treated like another day. It's GOD birthday.
The attitude shud b diffrent though its not a time for hedonistic feastg but godly rejoicg.

2buff: It pains me to see certain Nigerians still prefer to go about things the mediocre way, delivering mediocre products in the process.
Unfortunately, in most things tech, I have just come to by default expect a general lack of quality when it pertains to naija...and this is a sad thing.

Time to market is key. How many System.out are you going to do when you can just use breakpoints and see EVERYTHING at once, and even make realtime changes to the code while it is still running saving you time recompiling, launching and getting the program to the desired testing state once more.

Forget debugger sef, what about profiling?
How can you find and fix memory leaks, find CPU bottlenecks and other such things without a memory profiler? especially when you have millions of lines of code?
These are the things that determine good software. These things make the difference between a programmer who just builds things and a Software Engineer who builds things to last. Or do you think it is normal to release software that freezes and/or crashes randomly causing business downtime?

Again, people who generally rant against the use of IDEs I feel are people who have never created or worked on any software past the skillset of a college or bedroom project, or all they probably do is php scripting or something of the sort. I don't care if the person is a lecturer or a self-proclaimed guru. All dat one na "I am L33t" forming. Ain't nobody give a damn about your perceived HaXXor level. I only care about how fast AND how proper he/she can build/enhance the product and synergize their efforts with the team, and by those metrics, they better get and learn an IDE. I wouldn't hire anyone who thinks I should be impressed by the fact that they use command line to code...

interestg to see how this ide/non ide thng has gone.
I dnt use an ide and i may not use one anytime soon.
All your points are theoretcal at most.
Frst thg u dnt get is tht a programmer shud b creatve. A debugger with breakpoints i've not used but created stable programs tht hav run and done wat thyre supposed to do.
Ur profiling is hog wash in reality.
Profiling is one of the early thngs a learner begins to hear about after doing programmg for a while. The knowledge and inclination to use it is not born out of ide culture. Code can b debugged as good and as professionally as necessary without an ide. Debugging= finding and removg errors in your program.



because in reality wen you are usg software, you as the end user dnt know how bad or how good its been engineered. But you hav an acceptance range of quality. Anythg within tht range is okay with you. Mind you theyre tonnes of standalone profilers ides didnt invent profilers. In java there's jprofiler. Your and your ide proponents are stiff free your minds abeg.
convenience is essential to productivity not dogmatsm.
So the whole wrld of oop developers shud use one of three main products to meet ur irrelevant standards of wat it takes to be a software engineer.
Eclipse,netbeans,intellij?

You feel,you have come to expect,you thnk he/she is a scripter (php/etc) - these are stereotypical assumptions.
Your opinion about a person has no effect on tht person . Nor the facts. Theyre just tht opinions.
To correct you and ur ilks, software development is a function of time. If a partcular software will cost 2000 hrs estimate, the quality of d product is unaffected by the tool used.
because the executable code doesnt inherit traits from d tools used to craft it . The source code doesnt reflect wether it was made in netbeans or eclipse or intellij . The so called time savgs u rave about is subjectve.
If it cost 2000 hours and an ide gets you there in 2 hours less time yet you go blow 10 hours on other activities you as a human have still had a net input of 2000+
while the other fellow may not think d two hours savgs as sufficient greater thn his convenience with his preferred tools.
You are also implying, developers dont write buggy inefficient software tht crash with ides.
Youre mistaken.
Ides have nothg to do with capability . Ides are for labour savg. Thts all.

I wouldnt hire anyone who is dogmatic about tools.
Wat were d first ides written with? Ides? No! And did their quality plummet because of tht? No.
All software have bugs thts y theyre always evolvg. You only need to look back in history to prove urself wrong. Popular and large software have been written long bf ides bcame a craze.

All an ide says this is how to do software. But ppl hav been doing software long bf ides and ppl will continue to hav opinions on how it shud b done. One way isnt superior because its popular.

An ide is just another program.

Afrobasic:

Seen some of your post, you come across as a quasi-intellectual dude.

The kind of logic you use can be likened onto a Laplace transform(one sided). For example, in the emboldened, you use your religion(Christianity) as the base point for analysing other religions. Like WTF!!!, think outside the box!.

Speaking of boxes(cubes) an analogy comes to mind, what you just said is like saying a cube is better than any other 3D shape because:
- it has four corners.
- all sides are equal.
you shouldn't use the properties of a cube to categorize all other 3D shapes.

ok. I'm christian and i know of christian framewrk more thn other religions. But i know a lil of the ideologies of the other religion based on d basic ideas of these religions i pointed out y christianity is the stand out one.
Also i pointed out to claims only christianity makes. No other religion makes these claims.
In buddism,eastern religion, theres no judgemnt after death just eternal recycling. Karma etc.
The God factor is out.
Human relationship:
all religions kinda permit revenge or ar silent on it. Christianity again stand out by actually preachg lovg ur enemies not just your friends with examples in scripture. If Jesus were God by man's reasong he wudve wiped out the hecklg pharisees but he ddnt. Peter came close to and sliced off a soldiers ear.
The history of civilaztion is rife with seethg hatred btwn groups.
I said this defining characteristc cudnt hav been from man. Therfore it was from God.
If it were from man it wudve been rampant like war and bloodshed has been rampant in civilizations history.
Most leaders thru out histry were profoundly wicked.
Christianity states tht God sought for man, then made way fr man to b reconciled to God just as they are.
Other religions state the opposite.
Man has to earn his way to b accepted by God . I.e fr those religions tht hav a God in it.
Again this is very appealg to man because men like earng their way thru life.
The muslim has his rules. Alms givg, going to mecca, prayg 3 times a day.
The bhuddist has the rule of discipling himself till earthly desires are extinguished
catholicism has the rules of prayg thru saints and statues..
Traditional afrcan involve appeasg angry idols failure to do so and a family member may b afflicted or the village may suffer crop failure or the river may drown a villager..
Fear and rules to get with God.
At the end ppl under these systems still dont know their fate.
The muslim is never sure of eternal life.
But christianity again shines.
Categorically it states how to get to God. Repent ask fr forgive believe you receive confess and your in.simple. No million mile trekk on ur knees. No vow of poverty.
No askg saint francs to beg God for you.
No fearg tht the thunder God will get u fr failg to giv him his daily sacrifce.

Actually wen studied side by side christianity beckons. Its the real mccoy. It is compelling.

ooman:

agreed, but things are not often the way they seem.

I personally think that if indeed there is a god, he would be more concerned about new inventions and innovations than become angry and jealous of some conscious spec of dust he created to keep the earth busy.

actually God inspires new inventions THT ARE GOOD though the inventor thnks he is solely responsible for his thoughts.
The bible says "all good things come dwn from above".

On the anger part, its over rated but all administrators know tht for a systm to function smoothly some rules must b introdced . If d rules ar followed thyll b no problem.
Mankinds problems hav com from rejectg God's rules doing things their own way and pointg accusg fingers @ God fr not infringg on their will wen they were bent on doing wrong!
Actually the bible has keys and rules a person can apply to experience success in life in general and in specifc areas of life but from my experience i've never heard them taught in most churches and most christians dont question so the church thing is just tht church going.but there's more to it. A whole lot more.

You shudve posted a transcript not everybody can get on youtube.

Shankboye: sitdown for there, dey deceive urself.. I dey america here, I never see bugatti for eye, u dey talk say $1 million no b money, for where? Sitdown there dey spill nonsense..

america has classes in the society. So interact with the truly rch then shoot d question to them of $1m makg breakg news.
The rch hav made and lost money in millions. Not middle class who are swimmng in debt. yes, $1m is not 10k but its but not as heavy as the ppl here ar makg it seem.
On d international wealth scale $1m is negligible.

Jeffahead: Kambo has obviously grown very fond of using Notepad++ to write code and I can see will say anything to justify that. Well if you want to use an axe to cut down trees then I won't say its wrong. For me sha, I'll stick to my power-saw

So coming back to the topic of the thread, my power-saw of choice is the mighty Eclipse.

if an ide was a pwr saw and notepad++ was a plain old axe ur analogy wudve wrked but its broken.
I wonder wat you'd say of programmers usg sublime, vi/vim,emacs,textmate for development instead of netbeans,eclipse ?
You'd whip ur debugger question? ..
And tell them theyre not writg "real wrld , professional level software " because they cant "debug" their programs?
Where the only way to debug a program-to you- is via an ide.

Wen asked wat a debugger is you mention the tool on ur ide (shwg u thnk in terms of tools)!

(actually, you've shwn a lack of creatvty and programmg is abt creatvty n improvsg)

Smh.

Nonso23: @KAMBO
what is this balderdash about 1million dollars being a small money at international levels?
For your info my friend the number of millionaires in dollars globally does not constitute up to 1/600 of the official world population.
Most lambos, ferraris, rolls, bugattis etc go for a lot below 1million dollars and they make headlines! yeah huge headlines!
And FYI, ANYBODY WHO'S MADE UP TO A MILLION IS RICH. Stop condescending to lies to defend an extravagant GOM OR MOG.. Whatever.
Don't even compare industries, sheiks, etc to thieves using the holy book to rob. Sheiks have oil-blocks with huge markets, industries have large consumer base and steal or con no one!Churches have large stupíd, planless, dumb and gullible congregation they milk dry with one fake prophecy or the other.
For you to even think of comparing Okotie to politicians, tobacco industries and the porn industry says a lot about who you think he is and the type of congregation he brainwashes. SMH!
Tell me what a man with a Range is doing still purchasing a rolls royce? Wake up!

you're too impressed with a car collection wrth $1m to get my point.
To the rich, which i used international standard rich as against nigerian standard and for headline news, i said $1m is nothg.
To bugatti and ferrari you talkg about cud b acquired by non millionaires . Which dont fall into the list group i'm outling.
Theyre toys and status symbols tht triffle what okoties got.
Two i said $1m is nothg to God.
Most of the outrage is accusatory and by implication meang God can never prosper a man with $1m.
Take a break. This God you talkg about. Tht is if it is God who gave him the means to get the car.
A million dollar car collection is by international standard nothg to be over excited about.
Its just a million .
Wats all the fuss.
In a wrld where ppl have spent more on lesser things thn cars.

Anybody whose made a million is rich. I think thts the official forbes standard. But theyre so many in d millionaire club wrldwide tht theyr counted as nothg. Thts y a million dollar stable fails to make breakg news by any standard you want to access.
Its toooo trivial. Of course to non millionaire class its humungous.

Nonso23: @KAMBO
what is this balderdash about 1million dollars being a small money at international levels?
For your info my friend the number of millionaires in dollars globally does not constitute up to 1/600 of the official world population.
Most lambos, ferraris, rolls, bugattis etc go for a lot below 1million dollars and they make headlines! yeah huge headlines!
And FYI, ANYBODY WHO'S MADE UP TO A MILLION IS RICH. Stop condescending to lies to defend an extravagant GOM OR MOG.. Whatever.
Don't even compare industries, sheiks, etc to thieves using the holy book to rob. Sheiks have oil-blocks with huge markets, industries have large consumer base and steal or con no one!Churches have large stupíd, planless, dumb and gullible congregation they milk dry with one fake prophecy or the other.
For you to even think of comparing Okotie to politicians, tobacco industries and the porn industry says a lot about who you think he is and the type of congregation he brainwashes. SMH!
Tell me what a man with a Range is doing still purchasing a rolls royce? Wake up!

you're to impressed with a car collection wrth $1m to get my point.
To the rich, which i used international standard rich as against nigerian standard and for headline news, i said $1m is nothg.
To bugatti and ferrari you talkg about cud b acquired by non millionaires . Which dont fall into the list group i'm outling.
Theyre toys and status symbols tht triffle what okoties got.
Two i said $1m is nothg to God.
Most of the outrage is accusatory and by implication meang God can never prosper a man with $1m.
Take a break. This God you talkg about. Tht is if it is God who gave him the means to get the car.
A million dollar car collection is by international standard nothg to be over excited about.
Its just a million .
Wats all the fuss.
In a wrld where ppl have spent more on lesser things thn cars.

Lumyboi:

Naija made christianity. Notin abt salvation. Al abt moni moni moni. Confused christians readin d bible upside down. U beta read ur bible to understand. Nt wot ur pastor wants u to knw.

this applies to you actually. You all ar wrked up because sombody has $1m. Read your bible on money issues and think again.

adavize:
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I read your post from the beginning to the end and all I see is someone conflating issues; economy, the american family income, middle class, capitalism, politics and avoiding the real issue; the real reason why this made FRONT PAGE of nairaland. Take a moment back and ask yourself why this outrage here; most of us are christians like Okotie but we have risen to condemn this action. the reason is to remind you again; OKOTIE is a Pastor; if this was Adenuga, Bill Gates, Dantata or politicians and then all your reasons might be valid. ONE QUESTION SOMEONE earlier ASKED AND I ASK AGAIN; HOW DOES THIS PURCHASE OF 120 MILLION NAIRA CAR HELP OKOTIE OR HIS MEMBERS SPIRITUAL LIFE? A pastor calling is to win souls, to teach that our purpose on earth is to gain heaven ; how does this help win souls for christ, how does this preach that message that heaven is the final destination and there lies true happiness; HOW?

thanks for readg my post and i ddnt conflate issues but put it in context.
The real issue isnt his spiritual life. None of u posters care abt his spirituality. The main issue is the car and the price tag which i addressed.
because of the seemgly high price tag he's accused of acquirg it dubiously.
I took no stand but said it cud be either way remindg all ravers tht $1m dollars 4 two cars is small fry in the international scheme and to God.
God can bless and has blessed his people for their personal enjoyment with assets of and above $1m. And he will do it again.
If its not God it still doesnt mean he got it dubiously.
Yes he rich. Again i said on d international scene a rich man owning cars wrth $1m isnt news worthy.
Your question reminds of the stuff u get in churches promotg lean livg.
Fyi, it helps his spiritual a lot if he is satsfied.
He likes cars. He got the car he liked. What dyu think he'll be sayg after gettg it?
"praise the Lord", "you shall b the head not the tail", "you shall b untop not beneath".
If God is behind his wealth, he is a livg testimony tht God can prosper and bless you.
His life is the proof.
This is spirituality. Spirituality and life are interconnected.
Actually, you got it wrong. A pastors calling is to feed and nurture the sheep.
It is the evangelist tht wins souls.
Heaven isnt the final destination.
Earth is. Man was created for earth ,sinned fell from grace and the earth fell into satans power. God's plan thru Jesus is to restore man back to his right authority as the god of the earth. The final plan is for Man to rule and reign with Christ on earth.
How does is further the wrk of d gospel? If God gave it to him or he got it legitimately, his joy is full ,
if the car and things are not idols to him - his faith in God will soar. Next he can believe God for bigger things like yatchs jets etc- who were this created for? Sinners?
All this is okay if he is doing wat God called him to do.
You and every one judgg and accusg him dont know what God called him to specifcally and if he is on track.
He is also not going to giv account of how he lived to man but to his Master,Jesus,who called him.
The bible says whatever you desire .... In mark 11. If you want a $10m car, its your business. God has given you d wrd, its up to you and your faith.
If you want a $100m car its not a problem to God. The only biblical clause is your prayer may fail if "you ask to satisfy your lust" (idolatory).
Or if your heart loves Things more than God outside tht You not God determines HoW RICH YOU CAN BE.
some people know these principles ar ar applyg them while the rest ar hatg.
A $1m is small to God and on a global scale.

Askg this question is a sin . It wasnt meant for learng but for silliness. Youve cost NL space and resources tht cudve been used for better threads. This is a sin.

People and their stinkg cravgs for wrship. I hate callg ppl tht ar not my biologcl parents "daddy" "mummy" and many ppl do.
Jesus was never like this. He washed his disciples stinkg feet but 9ja leaders want other wise.
Poster, you shd have respectfully correctd tht prattlg pastor wife. So she'd hav somthg to thnk about.
Nobody has probably told these ppl d truth.
Daddy G.O, mummy bla bla.

adavize: to the very few and Thank God it is very few defending him; did you read the article or you just saw headline of pastor and rushed to defend him;
1. he had a very good car before now so he clearly did not need this extravagance; its not like this is his first car
2. someone made mention of tobacco companies and others - these are not religious institutions so we don't expect them to follow the way of Christ; how will Okotie preach to these CEOS, and immoral venture while he himself is no different in his lifestyle
3. All the religious bodies- Islam, Christianity, traditional all have an over riding message of modesty, temperance, etc(the fruits of the holy spirit for xtians) because clearly this world is not the end; they all emphasize how vain this earth is; few days to the end of 2013 he is purchasing these 2014 model; by end of the next year is he going to buy 2015 model; when will it end and how then can he preach with clean conscience against vanity and waste
4. if really you cannot see these are the issues that is causing outrage; then I pray some day you realize before it is too late
5. often i read do not judge my anointed; judgement means acting based on rumors, hearsay or a report without source; the original article on Punch newspaper said this was confirmed by his close aide; so its no longer a rumor; so we are right to pour condemnation and please do not say 1 Million dollars is nothing, if you have ever worked honestly to earn 1 dollars; you will know that is huge amount
if you began to save a dollar a day it will take you 2,738 years to get to a million.

people who count in millions dont make it savg a dollar a day.
And i said on an international scale not 3 wrld scale (where the life time income of 3 generations of d wrkg class can b under a $100k ). I repeat $1m is nothg at these levels to the rich. And okotie is in d class of the rich locally.
Even to the upper middle class, a million is easily achievable.
Dyu know wat real estate prices in the west is going for?
Theyre jewelry selling for a million dollars and more.
Tuition in ivy leagues is hovers near half a million dollars and theyre over subscribed they have to turn ppl dwn.
Is it only the rch patronisg?
A pastr with a million dollar auto collection wnt even make local head lines.

I mention d tobacco and so on companies cuz though theyre a business theyre lavish expenses dont recieve the kind of attention pastrs receive fr their expenditures.

GeneralShepherd:

Anywhere in the world 1million dollars is a whole lot of money! Anywhere in the world a Rolls Royce is a symbol of affluence and wealth! The average american doesn't own a Rolls Royce!

Don't listen to Kambo he will say anything to defend a MOG!

the average amercan isnt rch.
Ths artcle is about extravagant expenditure which i said on a wrld scale $1m in autos doesnt make headlines in lavishness.

We are talking money. Here.
Excuse me? How much ar we talking about? $1m after 30 years of ministry.
In poor countries its a big deal.
Read in context.