Shobayo Emma: but d sole command is: thou shall not kill without given any exceptional cases.

and david sinned wen he slew goliath?
Or when achan was found guilty and He and his household were to be killed the executioner committed sin?
Wat about saul who disobeyed a kill-order on the amalekite king losing his Kingdom and throne?

tintingz:
It is funny seeing atheist speaking for christians this is really a joke seriously.

NL atheists are a peculiar bunch. They claim a belief in no God but their nemesis seems to b christianity above all other religions.

GeneralShepherd:

Mob action or an angry judge is inexcusable.

But you can appeal a Judge's decision can the same be said about God?

ur rationalizing. Which is out of context here.
Judgement is dispensed with and in anger- like pleasure is expressed with a smile. That is the purpose 4 d emotion,inter alia.
Justice is a moral debt tht must b paid and man understands this at a subconscious level thts y mob's lynching a theif arent operating on cold calculated logic.
Theyre operating at a more fundamental universal level.
A judge has his mind trained to rationalise ,so he can thru education place a veneer btw his mind and his root feelings,but this is artificial because in some cases the severity and gruesomeness of the act is so great tht - raw anger - manifests. Also people clamour for speedy justice.
By this actions which we perform ... (see my previous posts for conclusion).


Ur other questions about appeal etc are out of context and distortive.

It depends on d answer u want:
the cold initially gall-bitter truth or the "sympathetic-truth".
Either way if ur a christian , this question is un necessary and u know the truth but since ur fishing , maybe u want sympathy and, u'll always find what u looking for.
You can make d bible say anything u want!
Which version dyu want? Cold or sympathetic?

Still here. If dont get the gist ignore it - read and pass.
Rehash.
God has and displays anger.
Man has and displays anger.
E.g an angry mob.
E.g a judge (rarely manifests)
anger is essential 4 dispensing justice. Like a smile expresses goodwill humor levity.
But God is criticized 4 dispensing justice or anger
yet at d same time God critics empathize with man's display of burning anger , swift uncomfortable justice etc.
... U can deduce the rest from here.
Catch my drift?
I likened God to man (not a mob)
i used d mob as an example of man in anger dispensing justice .
I cud hav used a parent , a jealous lover, etc.
The issue is : an emotion+a reaction (based on tht emotion):justice
and its implications wen critiquing God- automatic condemnation to d critique !

chukwudi44:

How can salvation be @ a zero cost when I have to tithe to be saved?

mayb i shud b chargg 4 tellg u thinks u can find out 4 urself, cuz all u sceptics come to criticize with out knowg d domain ur treading in. So go do ur homework on d requisite 4 biblical salvation b4 u shoot.
Most of d questions here ar plain ignorance!!
I'll respond to intelligent well research questions if i hav to?
Like i say? If you all dont believe in God then y shud religious culture giv u all sleepless nights.
I dont believe in allah, or animism , if it bcomes prevalent, i'd b amused at the gullibility of man falling so low but after a few attempts at persuading d supposed fools, i'd b on my way.
This is typical human behaviour but if i camp out and spend precious man hours trying to prove a rock isnt real, It's apparent i'm getting bothered.
Cuz if it aint real i'd laff and forget d matter but wrking hard 2 debunk,disabuse minds may actually reveal a subtle truth.
Which is - That the god is real but i'm trying to wish he werent real and arguing to convince myself by convincing others.
Man! You all know God is real deep down inside of you.
You all may never admit it but who losses ?
Its ur soul ur damning, this life is all u've got- enjoy it.
Anyway, like i said- research first b4 coming here to post half baked,top of the head,impulsive ,
shallow stabs of criticisms/questions.

wiegraf:

Kayi, dealing with una.... You missed the point. So you agree the xter you describe behaves like an angry mob, yes or no?

the angry mob illustration is used to used to make my point.
Atheists accuse G.o.d off being irascible, edgy,quick to lash out and sadistic for creating hell.
Yet , we justify man (acting in a mob) dispensing justice (though extra judicial) with fury and anger,
anger is d serum for the transport of d bitter justice.
I tied this principle to God who does same , dispense justice With ANGER. I showed how God is self controlled - his anger ripens with time.
In the pre-new testament era this wasnt always so - but thats talk 4 anoda day.
Concluding, with the fact tht if we excuse man (the mob in this case),
or the judge in a civil situation,
we i.e u sceptics invariably checkmate urself AND THIS WILL B USED AGAINST YOU wen u try to accuse ALMIGHTY! Like jesus checkmated the hounding pharisees ,saduccees again and again and again.
When you try to argue with God ,
its like playg ur best game of chess with only piece - ur king- against an infinite grand master!

wiegraf: So the fairy tale xter yahweh is as petty and irrational as an angry, human mob. Also, he's subject to laws, eg the laws of reason, and by extension the subjectivity of morality.

Actually, I don't think you'll find many atheists (actually all non-abrahamics) that will disagree. In fact, I think you're well on the path non-theism, or at least moving away from xtianity. Well done. At least I hope so, else you'd qualify as a sociopath if you consider his actions as 'good'

if i were moving away, I wouldnt b writing this christian apologetic.
You missed my point by a continent-wide margin.

uaphorism:
Maybe its just a stage of life, maybe it'll pass and I'll outgrow it all..but lately, I find myself being skeptical about anything religious.. I mistakenly tune to a christian channel and I find the whole thing either extremely amusing or enormously annoying..

The clergy don't help matters at all, when they simply can not explain something, they tell you, you have to accept it by faith..or that the hidden things belong to God..

Now, those that claim to know how to make me lose my doubts, end up making statements and assumptions they can't use the scriptures to back up..

That is when you begin to hear stuff like, 'there was a gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2', 'Adam MUST have given birth to other kids that Cain wz able to marry', 'God SEEMS to have created the other people that Cain said were going to kill him', 'the prophecy in Matt 26:9 was through Zachariah when it is clearly stated Jeremy'..etc

The Bible is infallible as we're led to believe..there however are unexplainable mistakes.. Should we live our lives based on a book that states that it is complete and accurate, I mean, something inspired by God couldn't be inaccurate now..

Why soo many different conflicting doctrines?? With proofs from the Bible to lend them credence, which is false and which should we believe? Is He that was made a little lower than the angels, He that doesn't know of when the rapture will take place, is He equal with God the Father? Is there a place called hell for all sinners? So many conflicts..

Lastly, if I was born into a muslim home, will I still believe that Jesus is the only way? The billions of people convinced that their own religious tenets are the truth, will they all die and burn eternally in hell? Someone will tell me about the time of Noah..but then shouldn't God give a physical sign, something very glaring..to tell everyone that this or that is the right way? You tell me the supernatural happens in christianity but they happen in every other religion and there are even many other religions that lead better, morally upright lives than christians..christians may even be the worst people on earth..

I still however believe that there is a God, The First Cause, The Creator of everything seen and unseen..

somebody sang "There ar mor questions than answers".

The bible is obviously a summarised book-if it contained every trivial fact and answer a curious mind required it wouldnt b portable.
Questions like these ar often asked by people with one foot out of d door. Many questions cannot b answered categorically because there's no direct answer from scriptures but does that qualify for a leap to debunking the bible!? No.
Just like they ar many questions in d sciences man cant answer yet he hasnt stopped believe in science.
As a side note to those chanting rationality, the very foundations of scientific knowledge rests on some glaring irrationalities and ambiguities. Scientists hav to accept certain things in faith! Until
actual verifiable proof are obtained.
As a matter of fact lives and philosophies ar built on beliefs. A belief doesnt require verifiable proof to be.
But they are many many cases in scripture where God is clearly inviting Him to take Him on.
Sometimes a prayer isnt answered, and we so desperately believed God wouldnt fail us - yet the expectation,the prayer didnt work, if prayer isnt reliable then we cant count on God to help us all d time right?
Many people sweep such cases under d carpet-and hush up on it.
I think we shud seek to know why and continue investigating why there was failure, otherwise the confidence to take God at his word just wont b there.
If u keep an open mind and do ur research, u'll discover many answers 4 urself.answers wont fall on you. Some scientific discoveries took man centuries to discover ,e.g calculus - d greeks wrestled with d concept but failed until the 18th century, did that make the idea false because they cudnt understand it? It takes pride to think so. Simple they didnt know.
Same with u. U dont know. But put in ur share of work.like d greeks did. Som answers,like calculus, are to weighty to b discovered by lazy grippers.

plaetton:

Babble babble babble.

In summary, so, after the sacrifice of Jesus, your saviour, your god is still demanding payments?
I guess he has not finished paying the mortgage on the earth, I suppose?

hmmm. Y does christianity interest u guyz?
Seeing the zero-cost offer is rejected by ur lot (salvation dont cost a thing but u gotta sincerely accept the gift 4 urself).
By the way,Ur questions like almost any other u can think to cough up ar trivial...

Javanian:

You made some sense and got somethings totally wrong. Most of these so called schools would teach you little or NOTHING! i was a victim of such. I thought i had it all there and had known it all but with time i found out i was just starting. Most of the expenses you would incure while being self taught you would incure them even if you have a teacher. You would have a laptop of your own, still spend money on internet plans, still spend money on electricity, still spend money on data storage cost, still spend money on every other thing you mentioned! Not even in the M.I.T would they teach you every thing. Most of what you would learn in this field you would teach yourself. If you think going to an institution would make you pro, you are in for a long ride!

I ignored some assumptions in order not to complicate my explanation.
The cost of the machine you'll b using (laptop,desktop etc) i took 4 granted. A good laptop is around N150k. Which leaves lil left of a N200k budget.
I also assumed tht the tutor(in d institution) will save u time,if the learner goes the self taught route is top notch.
The assumption is necessary else my example bcomes senseless.
So if you find a top notch coder to teach you, you will certainly learn faster than if you are self taught.
Actually, the most important skill any top institution (M.I.T,harvard;etc ) impart into you/or should impart is an ability to initiate and direct and control your own educational destiny.
Not fill you up with a catalogue of knowledge and facts.
And in these regard theyve been very very successful judging by the number of projects their alumna hav initiated - too many to mention here.
Dropbox,google,facebook,Free software foundation, microsoft, etc all started by ivy league alumni. So these institutions must b doing a few things right.

Commendable. But if God didnt send her to do it, then she wasted her time and life.
Besides it's clear that she was trying to do the wrk of the holy spirit- breaking up fights among violent bitter hardened men!!.

Paul said, "though i giv my body to be burned yet have not LOVE it profited me nothing/ nadir/zilch/zappo"

"though i bestow all my goods to feed the poor yet hav not LOVE it (complete the rest)"

so it's possible to do kind deeds of great magnitudes without L.O.V.E
(THE love God ,that is)

But if she was sent by God! Its a different matter.

plaetton:

Childish reasoning.
"There is indeed a dearth of intelligence in the land"--Prof. Wole Soyinka.

The government builds roads, provides security for law and order, provides security from external invasion. Provides countless social servises for the welfare of not only the taxpayers, but also for every citizen.
Can we say the same for god's revenue agency?

Pls pls outline one visible social welfare work done or established with tithe money by any known tithe fraudster, such as Adeboye, Oyedepo, Oyaks, Okotie, Creflo Dollar, pat Robertson, benny Hinn, etc.

If the governments in Nigeria have failed to live up to their responsibilities and expectation over the years, that is Nigeria's own particular problem.

The tax system works everywhere else in the world.
Infact, nations with the highest taxes enjoy the highest standard of living, the greatest social and economic equality, and less social vices.

You know what, mate?
If you can show me the mechanism whereby the ransom payments to god are remitted directly to god by Creflo Dollar, Pat Robertson and all the other hoards of evangelical crooks, I will shut my mouth and erase everything I have written on this thread.

Fraud is fraud.
Fraud does not need a context.

And by the way, are you a tithe fraudster or a wanna be?

childish reasong quoting soyinka.
God who is higher than soyinka has stronger descriptions for the one who says there's no God.
So obviously in God's eyes you set of people hav serious issues.

"governments build roads , provide hosing etc"
- you rehashed the point i made earlier: governments meet their financial objectives thru a tax system.
- financial objectives ar financial objective and dont need to fall under the narrow scope u specified : bridges, roads etc.
God's objectives are different AND higher (research them urselves.
I wont spoon feed u the answer here.)

"nations with the Highest tax enjoy..."
so y is a paltry 10% levy giving u heart attack!
The nations in point dont enjoy such standards because the rate is high but because the collection is judiciously utilized. There's no correlation between high tax and increase in honesty of money handlers which is the point ur tryg to make to justify high tax.
Besides, high taxation means the citizens essentially work for the government. They hav lil left over to get rich on. Most of them groan under the tax burden and the rich shelter their wealth elsewhere where the tax load is more lenient.
Again, underscoring the perfection of God's tax system. 10% unchanging unwavering unfluctuating stable yet minimal!


"outline any welfare work done by any known tithe fraudster..."
giv a dog a bad name. Since theyre fraudsters to you what dyu hope to see? Integrity,honesty, accountability?
Besides , theyre accountable to God and him alone . If they embezzle the tithe and offerings,
it wont to an unbeliever like you theyll explain themselves.

"if you can show me the mechanism whereby the ranso payments to God are remitted directly to God ... "
more succintly, if i can conform christianity to ur model you'll believe.
Sounds familiar like:
thomas: except i SEE THE NAIL PRINTS with my eyes AND PUT my finger INSIDE the hole in His hand I WILL NOT BELIEVE

jesus replied: blessed are those who hav not seen YET BELIEVE!

or this:
satan: IF you b the son of GOD God , COMMAND these stones to turned into bread

or this

pharisees: "If you b a teacher sent from God GIVE US A SIGN(paraphrased)"?


Jesus, response: conform to the sceptics model? No!
To the devil , He said: "it is written ... "
to the pharisees he said "I will not give you a sign , save the sign
of him dying and rising from the dead (paraphrased)"

the only sign to u folks is d same sign given to d devil and d pharisees: the written word and the empty tomb.
And d written word says, "the TITHE IS MINE (GOD'S)"

Pastor Kun: @Plaetton
For the record I would just like to state on this thread that tithing is not a true christian doctrine but a doctrine derived by charlatans from fraudulently manipulating scriptures meant for jews and mis applying it to christians. So it would be very wrong and naïve of you to evaluate christianity based on the actions of a few fraudulent charlatans.

you ar as misguided as they come.
Tithe is scriptural and has scriptural backing so zip ur opinion and let the word speak for itself.
Charlattans indeed , it is rather the supplanting of bible truths with human feelings/wisdom that has led to so much distortion in christendom.

turnstoner: @Kambo:
God's kingdom? where is it?
@kambo:


I find your idea of a God that feels that he's been robbed when tithes are not payed rather repugnant

@kambo:


He says think critically as if he knows what critical thinking is I s'pose you think the hogwash you wrote above is product of critical thinking?

1. God's kingdom where is it?
If u need an education in bible basics do ur research urself.
At least u cud research to criticise.

2. "idea of a robbed God repugnant".
Who cares how u feel or wat u find.
Ur feelings dont clear u of guilt.
U may find the idea of prosecution 4 tax evasion repugnant thts not gonna stop ur arrest (and punishment ) by earthly governments.

3. "he says think critically as if he knows .... Hogwash u wrote ... "

drivel as usual.
Soon you'll b cussing and foaming in d mouth.
Get a grip on urself.

Besides, only members of God's kingdom ar required to tithe and since you,atheists are outsiders, its odd that a practice which dont bother u and isnt binding on you, shud get you all so worked up.

Daft question.
But to answer: most pastors will fall for the offer talk less of lay members.

U cant see d devil but u see his influence. Satan is alive and well on d planet.
He laffs at all them who try to rid d world of evil (and his influence) thru reasoning!

There's always a price tag.
Time and money wise.
If u ar self taught,u'll may stii end up spendg N200k+ (or significant amount) to attain proficiency AND it will take longer
than if u were under a capable teacher.
You'll make all d mistakes beginners make,battle the fear and demotivation they battle
, etc.
Self taught doesnt mean - zero/lil cost.
E.g internet cost * x years u'll b self teaching urself.
Data storage cost
data recovery cost (wen u experience data loss . It always happens at d onset)
electricity generation cost
computer parts + accessories cost
expect to go thru at least 1 xtra computer b4 u turn pro
, you'll buy and replace hard ware parts often
books - depends on d level u want to settle at- ebooks will not cut it in d very long run and some books u cant get as free download
expect to spend at least 1 - 3 years evolving a personal distinct programming style.
Update cost- a lot of outflow will go in this direction,cuz watever ur specialty, tht field is a moving target u gotta keep learning, relearning new stuffs in d field.
By the time u beat ur chest and say i'm gud enuff, N200k will b chicken change. Even at tht u'll b humble to know u aint started yet! There's still a lot to learn.

I do see some ads saying they'll teach you programming in a couple of weeks..
Thts mor like playng on d ignorance of the prospective learner.
I once went to a computer school to make enquiries after i was already knowledgeable in programming,the attendant was selling dot net stuff and i asked wat about java , then began a silly attempt to hide his ignorance.
He began disparaging java , talkg bs about how i'd need to memorise a lot of code in my head and stuff. Cock and bull.
In d long run ur better off self taught cuz then u set ur own boundaries and dont hav to acquire the teacher's limitations.
But beware, a truly good teacher will charge serious money to teach you (esp if he's self taught and productive).
If i were to interview a teacher to teach me my focus would b on looking at wat he has been able to accomplish so far. Wat significant software has he/she written. That's d litmus test cuz , in reality, its easier to teach than code and most lazy programmers opt for the easier path while milking their victims silly.
Also if he's going to teach u, both of you shud wrk on a significant project tht uses all/most of d concepts you've been taught so far. Lazy teachers avoid this part.

codeManiac:
Oga...fb didnt start wif dose grammars,i wonder if mark knew dem @ dat tym,it was facemash(polls conducted by student on 2 pictures 2 decide wich is hot or not) every odat tin fb is 2day was added lata on...more n more improvements everyday...they wrote anoda php compiler 4 speed issues...

"wonder if he knew them @ d time"
mark was a cs student at the time he started fb.
He got d idea seeded after taking a class in graph theory.

"facebook didnt start with all these grammer"
google didnt start with Big Table or google Fs.
Software evolves.
Zuckerberg had cut his teeth on writing intelligent apps like synapse which microsoft was so impressed with they wanted to hire mark right there but he declined the offer to go to school.
U dont impress MS with hueristics.
Synapse was an AI application.
You dont write efficient ai with heuristics.
If zuckerberg were just a lay coder , he wudnt b able to direct fb strategy. U can see tht the tech wrld best startups are often directed by technical persons-few succeed otherwise.
It all boils down to math over heuristics.

Mathematically adept coders and hackers.
The back side of facebook is mor mathematical/statistical than the average hacker can handle.
Face has a fast php compiler - not stuff for lay hackers.
Facebook is essentially an optimized graph - not stuff for lay coders.
Facebook collates and analyses seas of user data to predict user trends - not stuff for lay coders.
U need statistics,ai (machine learning etc) for these things.
Facebook must b kept responsive inspite of ernormous traffic and activities on the site - meaning , efficient algorithms must b crafted - think computer science/math majors (bsc,msc,phds), distributed code, etc.
Again,not stuff 4 lay coders.
Point- knowledge of php alone,etc wont cut it.
The most universal applications on the planet ar created by computer scientists/mathematicians (self taught or college educated) and not just lay programmers.
There's a place 4 d lay coder , in facebook workplace but its grunge work, the stars engineers are formally trained.

Even if she apologises , she shud b made 2 pay 4 d food (and gas/fuel).
Too many women ar insultive and ar used to insulting their men cuz of the over attention they get from men.

php and <insert database name>
will not build u a functional facebook.
Else facebook wouldnt hire teams of computer scientists and mathematicians, if code writing is all they needed they cud get kids and high skul drop outs to churn out code.

U hav no problem paying ur tax to ur wordly government EVEN THOUGH MOST OF TAXPAYERS MONEY GETS EMBEZZLED by the trusties their given to.
Also , human governments are greedy , levying all kind of taxes on their citizens AND EXTRACTING IT BY FORCE!
the tax proportion in most countries is sometimes up to 50 percent of earnings!
And increasing.
The remuneration is sometimes non existent. In Nigeria, infrastructural decay is accelerating even with increased taxation . This is a negative reward of taxation.
Yet, first, it seems strange tht taxation is a modus in God's kingdom!
2. People who dont giv a hoot abt God want to criticize how His kingdom operates!
Guy ur on a long thing with ur blinders on.
The tithe is 10 percent and hasnt/will never change like human governments do.
GIVE TO CEASER what belongs to him- arrest and persecution for tax evasion is understood. U dont create a thread 4 that.
The bible says, the TITHE belongs to God. Not giving it is Robbery - and the bible clearly states tht.
B4 u criticize God 4 institutg tithing, first successfully get ur government to abandon any form of taxation.
As usual, an atheist brings on half baked, out-of context, arguments against christianity.
Do ur research and think critically b4 posting.

luluosas:
Hello, you are talking business and not bible please, which unfortunately have plunged the church worldwide into commercial centres and avenues, instead of being a prayer and salvation centres, where truth and obedience are taught.
God will definitely judge the churches of this generation.

"i am talkg business and not bible" because i mentioned shares. Read things in context b4 u reply.

This format is a cake walk for spam bots: <name>@<domain>.<extension>
so people revert to:
replacing @ with , 'at',<nonletter symbols><literal at><nonletter symbol>,
replacing '.' with literal i.e words 'dot' etc.
E.g

name(at)domain(dot)com


Whatever the trick, its still a piece of cake for spam bots.

See Jesus vs Nichodemus dialogue on this issue.

Fact is the bible addresses every area of a christians life including giving. The principles a christian has to employ to see results - financially and materially but
the unbelieving world who want nothing to do with God will focus on any message on giving to criticize and distort.
Money is always on peoples minds , always. People always want more, always. Som body writes a book like kiyosaki did and it tops the chart! But a preacher says giv and he's suddenly a rogue - no christian's will take note.
But the bible says 1.) the wealth of the world belongs to God,
so y cant his children help themselves to som of it?
How many christian billonaires are they?
How many porn star , gambling billonaires are they?
Yes, some christian ministers get dubious and try to line their pockets, som of them literally lack content and only know how to preach a popular message but
tht doesnt mean labelling all preachers as rogues cuz they preach prosperity.
Y shudnt a pastor drive a flashy car? Live in a nice house? Etc
actually on d prosperity scale, the bible says it is NOT UP TO GOD to determine how rich a christian can be! Hello? Its up to the christian. How?
Let me use the share analogy.
If u buy 1000 units of shares , ur dividend wont come immediately but in a few months time,
it will come and it will b proportional to how much you
invested always. What if you bought 1 million units? In 10 years time your shares could hav doubled from the company giving bonus shares , so u cud b worth 20 million units. Dividend on those 20 million units cud run into 100 million (whatever currency its denominated in). Wud then blame the share holder for owning too many shares?
God has set things up so that , the christian determines how much he wishes to sow while God works out the increase? So those going to put n10 in offering will reap multiples of N10 (of course this is all relative) but the thing is most pastors look to d members of their congregation 4 sustenance and so preach a manipulative and compromised message. This doesnt do away with the spiritual laws regarding giving as specified in d bible.

plaetton:

Inappropriate comparison.
Rich dad poor dad does not ask you to give money to someone for supernatural blessings.

Yes, pentecostal fraudsters use motivational techniques and vocabulary, but they work primarily fear and blackmail as their primary currencies.

rich dad poor dad teaches the same principle of giving to receive that is in the bible.
As for promising spiritual blessgs, he cant since he doesnt manifestly believe in God.

give and it you shall receive creeps you out?
at worst its extortion like nigerian police men do on the high way.
at best its - doing the will of God.
I thought you were gonna report some weird incident that raised the hair on your neck!!.
even atheists , have copied the message and preach it too? - see rich dad poor dad for more.
does rich dad poor dad creep you out?! - it was a chart topping best seller?
and his central message was ?!- "give and it shall be given unto you ".