₦airaland Forum

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Transcendence.

striktlymi: Okay...

I won't stop you from calling Zygotes cells if that helps you develop your argument. Next question...

Does any of the stages of human development include being a 'cell'?

Yes

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I think you want to eat your cake and have it.

Address specifically what I have raised. I don't think opposites begat one another.

And where does the Good Samaritian go to upon his death?

Joshthefirst: is this world entirely physical? Are you entirely physical? Is God entirely spiritual? Is God not a mental being too?

Sorry, your argument is flawed.

And the final cause, who is self-existent must be above and not held bound by the physical universe.

It is not flawed and you didn't address the main issue.

Funny to find God is a mental being too!

Joshthefirst: lol. I can see you missed this part of the thread. You can start reading from here to get the picture and see the reply to wiegraf's ignorant question. enjoy yourself.

madam, how does God not having a physical body limit his power of creation in any way? Nawa o.

I did not intend a reply to this.

The transcendental world is non material, non physical, antithetical to the physical, hence the physical cannot be a natural product/effect of its antithesis.

^^

And my sin is being indifferent about heaven and hell?

striktlymi: Are sperm cells thesame as zygotes?

No, but they are cells.

striktlymi: Nah...

If I want to tell you what I believe, I will most definitely tell a 'tale' about how at conception, each zygote has a unique soul from God but I stuck to what we can easily ascertain via logical reasoning.

I made mention of two things actually:

1) That a sperm cell, though alive in its own rights but the life it possesses is not human.

2) The zygote has life which is human.

The evidence I put forth for both statements is gotten from observation basically. Sperm cells do not develop to become adult humans no matter the length of time they are alive but on the other hand zygotes do.

Anyways, you seem to be the one arguing based on what you believe. You made a statement that sperm cells are humans but provided no backing for that statement.

Note: Saying sperm cells are a part of the human biology, hence they are humans does not back up your claim because we can equally say that the toe is a part of our biology, hence toes are humans.

Both the zygote and spermatozoa are cells and can be regarded as such life. It is murky saying human life, rather what type of cells are they -- human cells-- human life will be appropriate for a fully functional multicellular being

Sperm cells upon the condition of fertilizing an egg, they develop into humans, that is irrelevant since we are concerned about what they are, not what they would be

Deep Sight: And it just proceeded, abracadabra! No?

And for how long that hot dense state had existed, we do not know. And why it did not "proceed" before then, or after then, but only then.

Yet that's the theory. What caused the hot dense state? More ? ? ?

striktlymi: No I don't think so for a very good reason...sperm cells possess life but this life is not human, either in part or in whole. Zygotes on the other hand possess the one characteristic that defines every human being...and that is, human life.

A point of note is that zygotes do not develop into human beings because whatever possesses human life is human, the formative stage of that individual has very little role to play here.

So whatever argument I put forth today or in the future is directed at safeguarding what makes us all humans: HUMAN LIFE!!! Abortion is wrong because it deprives an individual of what defines us all: 'HUMAN LIFE'!!!

I don't especially agree with you that the sperm cells and eggs aren't human, you seem to believe without justification that from conception human life springs out while the eggs and sperm are alien!

Since the eggs and sperm are of human biology they are therefore human.

Deep Sight: It's just the first step in addressing those who say that the universe needs no cause.

However, by way of deductive logic, the implications are:

1. The cause could not be matter or energy of the universe itself as nothing caused could be its own cause

2. The cause would be powerful, given the scale of universal energy and matter

3. The cause would pre exist the universe.

These simple baby steps in clear reasoning will disclose a transcendent, non material, powerful cause: key ingredients of the definition of God.

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Deepsight, I think you are hold misconceptions about the big ban.g. The universe is said to have proceeded from a hot dense state -- a singularity. The cause of the Universe is this singularity, and that settles it.

A transcendental immaterial conscious being become irrelevant in this context.

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There has to be a sure solid conviction behind your afterlife theory. It is bad enough you didn't address my concerns.

1. Everything that begins has a cause

2. The Universe began, hence it has a cause.

That's settled, but where does God come in?

FrancisTony: Not a person! Till it fuses with an ovum. Go back to s.s1

Joshthefirst:

Sperm cells can never develop into human beings.

Conception yields the zygote. A developing human being.(Are you not a developing human being).

Now when is it right to kill a developing human being in the womb?

Nevertheless sperm cells are human same goes with the ova.

@striklymtl

But you don't think the sperm cells are persons?!

@striktlymi @olaadegbu

As to sin and crime, you guys very much see the similarity. And that punishment is deservedly visited on the guilty. Now, I insist it is unjust for people to suffer for the actions of others be it their parents or Adam and Eve. And in the divine level, justice is readily demanded.

As to abortion, we all agree that the human person/soul is not present throughout the formative stages. Sperm cells and ova are not human persons yet. The determination of human person is a matter of fact. It must be investigated.

But men wrote the Bible, and therein wrote that they were inspired by God. What if the devil deceived them? The devil is supposed to be extremely smart.

Deep Sight: ^^^ He placed it in bold.

Here again - >



As against:

OHHH!!

It is not a contradiction, being that spirit is said to be the conscious and the real entity within the shell of the physical body. Within that theory, a spiritless person is inconceivable. And the spirit is said to be mobile.

I'm saying there are hidden personalities which are not necessarily conscious, that stir the human. For example our appreciation of sexual beauty can be traced to a disguised unconscious drive/instinct to reproduce (as in animals)

Solaj: It will be a great disaster if you end up in hell due to your rebellion against Jesus Christ. Just like John Lennon, you are hell bound for eternity if you die as an unrepentant sinner and unbeliever. Repent now! Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour now! Today may be your last chance before death. Death can come anytime! Hell is real! Heaven is your best choice. No more excuse. You have been warned! Repent!

You are missing the point, Heaven either exists or not. We must be convinced it exists, yet we do not know absolutely that Heaven exists, rather we (you) have absolute trust (faith) in the bible.

Still that's not enough. You are still as ignorant as I am on afterlife.

Also the Good Samaritian was not a christian, yet he was good.

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Pastor Kun, however tithes were legitimate in the past, God approved it and as such God nor the priests and levites were labelled thieves! It becomes a difficult argument for you say a part of the Bible is irrelevant and redundant.

veeco vee: no amount of human knowledge can define spirituality. God is spirit, he is the one that knows all.

I simple believe the Bible, which the greatest book i ve come across, cause i dont know it all, but you sound as if you do. Pls what do i do, so that i wll not die?

Yes human language can not define spirituality, therefore your testimony/OP should be disregarded and thrown into the nearest bin.

Joagbaje: God enrich the evil man for only one reason :

Job 27:16
Though he heap up silver as the dust,
and prepare raiment as the clay;
He may prepare it, but the just shall put it on

Ecclesiastes 2:26
. . .but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that is good before God. This also is vanity and vexation of spirit.

Proverbs 13:22
. . . the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

If you read the entirety of that particular chapter (27), Job is saying that the wicked do not suffer from poverty, but upon their deaths, they lose their souls, making all their efforts on earth futile. That is their punishment.

on earth they are prosperous.

Why do the wicked still live, continue on, also become very powerful? Their descendants are established with them in their sight, and their offspring before their eyes, their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God on them. His ox mates without fail; his cow calves and does not abort. They send forth their little ones like the flock, and their children skip about. They sing to the timbrel and harp and rejoice at the sound of the flute. They spend their days in prosperity, and suddenly they go down to Sheol. And they say to God, 'Depart from us! We do not even desire the knowledge of your ways. Who is the Almighty, that we should serve him, and what would we gain if we entreat him?'" Job 21:7-15

The tents of the destroyers prosper, and those who provoke God are secure..." Job 12:6

Joagbaje: Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth 3 John 1:2.
Many have only thought of prosperity in terms of money or the multiplication of material possessions, but prosperity is first an ability. Material possessions or finances are often the most common symbols or indications of prosperity, which is why many equate prosperity with money; but it’s beyond money.

Let’s review the example of Joseph in Genesis 39:2; the Bible describes him as a prosperous man:

"And the Lord was with Joseph, and he was a prosperous man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian."

We’re told that he (Joseph) made his master, Potiphar, to prosper, to the extent that Potiphar made Joseph overseer of all that he had:

"…the Lord blessed the Egyptian’s house for Joseph’s sake; and the blessing of the Lord was upon all that he had in the house, and in the field. And he left all that he had in Joseph’s hand…" Genesis 39:5-6.

Even after he was falsely accused and sent to prison, the Bible says that Joseph was still prosperous. He was put in charge of the prisoners and the Lord made him successful in all that he did (Genesis 39:22- 23). You can be "in prison," and be prosperous. You can be working for somebody or an organization, and be the reason for their prosperity. Consider Jacob: the Bible says he made Laban to prosper. In Genesis 30:27, Laban testified of this to Jacob and said,

"…I have learned by experience that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake."

Much more than the acquisition of material possessions, prosperity is the ability to help others prosper! It’s the ability to do what you want to do, go where you want to go, and be whatever you want to be to the glory of Christ! It’s the ability to please God, and walk with the Spirit, and have His glory manifested in your life! It’s the Spirit of dominion at work in your life as a child of God.

You’ve been empowered by God, not just to prosper spiritually, mentally, physically and materially, but also to make others prosperous.

This does not address nor relate to the more real problem of human suffering. The book of Job clearly states that God enriches the evil man and grants him long life, that contradicts what you are saying now.

Joshthefirst: smh. What does God not have that he cannot give?

Physicality!

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"You cannot give what you don't have"

The Universe cannot have a physical character if God created it.

Joshthefirst:

How do you mean? God being above material the material things renders him unable to create material things?

I'm saying that since God isn't physical, and the universe is created from God, it takes the same nature/character God has not what's contrary to his nature.

^ ^

Where does the Universe get its physical nature from since God is transcendent?! Please explain.

OLAADEGBU: The same way aborted babies suffer from the criminal activities of their parents as victims.

I think we are on the same page. So why do Adam and Eve's descendants suffer the punishment of their ancestors?

@joshthefirst

1. Ok

2. Why is God using energy when he is transcedent and selfexistent?!n

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Yes as victims not as criminals and sinners.

1. joshthefirst, you made a very poor premise and that the truth. It does not mean I don't believe the universe is without cause. Yet you premise was too poor.

2. I really want us to address the issue of the material used to create the Universe. God used a part of himself, right?

3. Modern physicists are championing the multiverse theory. Don't you think its too dangerous to place God as a cause for the universe rather than multiverse