₦airaland Forum

striktlymi: The above is not abreast with the times...I know a number of folks (even here on nairaland) who believe that they cannot sin as Christians. We can say that, in a sense, they have systematically 'removed' the topic of sin as it relates to them but still maintain that they are Christians.

however that is in the realization that man is saved by Jesus from sin (which is a heavy moral burden)

striktlymi: That's incorrect!

Salvation in the context of Christ' coming has to do with the restoration of what we lost through our first parents. That obviously cAannot lose its meaning or relevance.

if there was no sin for Adam and Eve to transgress, they wouldn't have fallen, and there wouldn't have been the need for Jesus to supercede death (a consequence of sin).

Emusan: So how did you show this?



What do you mean by "followed Satan"?



That thing which is right in the sight of God.

1. By followed, I meant it in the literal sense.

2. Isn't that a law?

Also, from your acronym of SiN, Sin is a state of affaiirs not an action (moral action) hence people are not sinners by virtue of committing sins, rather by the state of affairs. That would be contradictory in Christianity, because man is said to commit sin.

Joshthefirst: There is no sin? No. Sin is very basic and universal. Wrongdoing. There must be an absolute for us to rely on. History has shown that even the laws made up by a society can deviate from norm and bring trouble upon others. There is a divine law. Sin is the transgression of the law. Man is god? Then each man can treat himself as the moral standard irrespective of anyother. Chaos will reign.

There is an absolute moral law that tells us what is objectively wrong, written in our consciences. There is a lawgiver. We must reconcile all laws to this divine law; we must determine right and wrong by this divine law. Or we will end up in chaos in society. Lawless and immoral.



So no amount of denial will hide wrong-doing. We all know of wrongdoing. We all have done wrong.

Acknowledged, however the law rather than benefit/protect man, it rather enslaves and condemns man, therefore Christianity sees the need for salvation from the law. Same as requiring protection from your parents who ought to be your protectors. It is an irony.

I'd show you how your acronym for sin is faulty.

1. If a man followed Satan to give the poor alms, would that be a sin?

2. What delineates good from bad?

If the topic of sin is removed from the themes of Christianity, Christianity is bound to collapse like a deflated airbag. The remainder themes especially salvation will lose meaning. It is with sin man is in trouble with God and the divine forces.

What is sin? Sin is the transgression of divine law. Without the law, there is no sin and likewise no need to worry about salvation. Sin is so central to Christianity, because of man"s frail moral nature, man is unable to live up to the expectations of this high standards, thus collapses over and over again into transgression of the law (divine law).

Jesus makes a celebrated entry into the scene, promising grace to wipe off the sins of man from time to time. Yet man still sins, it is still beyond man's power to be morally perfect. And the little merrygoround continues till this day.

But one must ask, why is there law? For whom's benefit? God's or man's? Laws are crafted to protect, and definitely God does not need such protection. He is said to have lived infinitely and has lived without the law infinitely.. God is almighty and is even the source of the law. Hence the law is not for God but for man.

A look at the 10 Commandments for example, reveals benefits to society and man. "Thou shall not kill" "thou shall not steal" are self explanatory. All Mosaic laws on cleanliness, local government, etc; have human interest at the centre.

With the above in mind and considering that humans have not been horrible legislators. Our laws even overlap into these divine laws and leave them behind in a distance. Modern laws have adapted better to our times and more effective than the divine laws which are not interpreted as living documents with man's welfare at heart.

In all, Christianity shows self defeat by preaching a salvation from the laws designed to protect and preserve man. In turn condemns their God. Also questions arise as to the measure of punishment such as hell.

Gombs: Why didn't you just answer the questions in the OP?

I addressed your post based on the Op, however I will go over em again.

1. They can be compatible. A counter question, does any of them conflict with truths about God?

2. In science, the truths are deemed provisional.

3. Man.

4. No.

5. There are diverse atheistic philosophies

6. Take the bible as it is.

7. Subjective

8. No

Gombs: Ok, so everything came from nothing? Or that we evolved from monkeys, how then do we still have monkeys or where did the monkeys we evolved from came from!?... if monkeys came from big bang, so we evolved from stupid to intelligent? Facinating

Atheism is primarily about the non existence of God, not the latest scientific theories. Arguments against God need not provide an alternative explanation, but satisfactory in dismantling God's existence.

Wow....if art was a deliberate man made invention, how do you explain how the world is designed, how the mountains and flowers etc are arranged wonderfully...music? Really? Language? Innate and critical tool which evolved? Wow...how do u explain languages of animals? Were they the ones who 'deliberately' invented it?

This is typical inductive reasoning. Using man as the particular premise to generalise. Now besides man as an example, there is nature we observe, therefore throws out God the creator concept.

Meaning, u just admitted the fact that atheists absence of proof that God doesn't exist is NOT a proof he doesn't really exist!?

Coherence and not just proof.

My point is Abraham is in Hell

harbiola1: Which substance would u have conceded with?

In other words you are just speculating.

harbiola1: It is obvious that u don't have a zeal for the discussion so u need an excuse like the above. Nothing do u!

I believe that the creation of everything in the universe was brought into being by God's sheer command - "Be, and so it is".

I know that ur gods are products of Big Bang, so i'm not supprise about the argument u're trying to bring forward.


But can you say Olodumare is also a product of something?

I'm very interested and further you admit in the bolded, that God's creation of the Universe is a mere belief of yours without substance. Of what use is there to debate over speculations?!

^^

So why are you campaigning endlessly against hell?! When it is good

Yes it is patently obvious you were not there, therefore you couldn't have known whether God created this universe. So you were saying rubbish

@joshthefirst

Mention people that Hell helps

Also, lus, selfishness wouldn't be sins if there was no God. Sin is what God doesn't like. But one man's meat is another's poison. There is no true justifications for sin.

Where you there when God was creating the universe?

Pastor Olu T: Faith is a natural phenomenon for we are all born with it, in fact it is impossible to live without faith. For instance u have faith in what u see, ear, feel etc, u have faith that the msg u are typing would be seen by whoever opens this thread n such faith in things abound all around us. Now if u dont have faith in certain things or persons simply 'cos u cant unravel it, it doesn't change anything 'cos ur faith will only benefit u or otherwise.

I have very much doubt that. One could equally say, a mad man has the faith that he isn't mad. And I don't know where you got the idea that faith is a natural phenomenon.

For me to convince u to have faith beyond things that ur 5 senses cant work around or wrap ur mind around, would mean u will have to leave the sense realm to a supernatural realm. The truth remains that u cant take faith out of xtianity for u can only believe things ur little mind cant phantom which will many at times look like foolishness. Bt when u come into it u discover better because it is more of a reverse case to what we easily believe "seeing is believing" bt this case "it is believing then seeing" in Christianity, many of us actually believe this things in faith before seeing n encountering all that we did encountered.

So convincing u means u have to come by faith n see things urself. Its just like what Jesus said that broad is the way that leads to damnation n narrow is the way that leads to life. The way it works is when u go through the broad way, it become strait n narrow as u continue till it leads to death, while the strait road will become broader n broader (more enlightened) as u continue to life!

It is also easy to have faith otherwise and believe that Mohammed is the son of God! To even prove how subjective faith is, I wasn't convinced one bit.

The fact that someone could opt for faith does not mean he would be a Christian!

OLAADEGBU: Isaiah Wolf said: "Is marijuana also intelligently designed for humans to freely consume?"

Answer:

Marijuana is a weed. It is part of the Genesis curse. Those who smoke it called it "dope" for a reason.

It could not have occurred randomly

I simply want to know how you got to know God created this universe. Besides you didn't say anything else about God other than he created the universe.

Pastor Olu T: I concur, bt I have this to say 'cos we are in the endtime.

We are in the last lap of our race on earth and would soon give accounts of our sojourneying on this side of eternity. The bible says we should be wise as serpent and gentle as a dove, also it says it is required in stewardship that a man be found faithful.

Let us all arise from our slumbering and receive the light and life of Christ running with focus and perseverance the final lap of the race we are called to!

Seeing wherefore brethren that we are compassed around with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us do away with every sin and weight which easily beset us, and running this race with perseverance that is set before us. Looking unto Christ the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was placed before Him endure the cross, despising the shame and has sat at the right hand of the throne of God.

Hebrews 12:1-2

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

Yes yes yes, yet faith is subjective and non communicative. It is hopeless trying to share your faith with people that don't have it. There is no common ground. I don't have the faith in christianity, I don't have the faith Jesus died, I don't have the faith that there is sin, I don't have the faith that a God built the universe; how can you then convince me?! Its impossible.

sammieguze: .
What is air? What shape is it? Av u ever held it, touched it or seen it?

The invisible gaseous substance surrounding the earth, a mixture mainly of oxygen and nitrogen

Air is the Earth's atmosphere. It is the clear gas in which living things live and breathe. It has an indefinite shape and volume. It has no color or smell. It has mass and weight. It is a matter as it has mass and weight. Air creates atmosphere pressure.

How was man able to know this? Experience. If man sits in his living room all day, he would have no idea/concept of what air is. Neither would faith led him to such knowledge. Our senses feed us with the raw impressions of what air is, and we conceptualise it, measure it and manipulate it. (This question is clearly irrelevant however I decided to indulge you)

1. Who is God? Is he comprehensible?

2. Did the author of Genesis, witness the events of creation prior to recording them?

^^
That's contradictory, since that's supposed to be the most complex mind ever! Yet our mind is at a rudimentary level to it.

Assume they are highly intelligent robots.

Divepen: Hebrew 11:6
Without faith you cannot please God..
Faith is the ability to stand your ground that a man will be healed without drugs

Faith is the act of going into an herbalist house to heal his son

Faith is the only thing Witches and satanist see in christainity and run to it

Faith is the ability to pray to God without a physical medium

Faith is the ability to trust God to live holy

Faith is the ability to rely on God and stop watching
*Porns
*World musical video

Faith is the assurance that ladies have and would make them want to dress without
*Exposing their laps
*Exposing their bosom
*Wearing see-through clothes.
*Putting on leggingd

Faith is the assurance that there is God

faith made God heal many people

Faith made Us know there is hell for Idol worshipper,Muslims,Atheist
and all who do not love Jesus
and are meddeling with the things of the earth,

Without faith you cant please God

Brilliant OP!

Faith is the true foundation for Christianity. But not everyone wants the faith.

@joshthefirst

1. Hope you realise Hell is part of the punishment, it sounds strange that you claim the punishment is for the good of man. Consequently suffering is for the good of man? (I partially believe suffering is necessary for man, however Christianity sees it different, and it becomes a contradictory for it to approve of suffering)

2. Freewill mean free will, you desire/will anything. There is no bound will or obligations. If there are such, you can break it. Sometimes to turn away from authority is to fulfill the desire to be one's self. Man cast his destiny as he wishes, rather than what God wishes.

[quote author=harbiola1][/quote]It was so obvious you had your agenda and abandoned the main gist of this thread. The thread is about Yoruba mythology and regardless of the inconsistencies it has, it is still a myth. And myths are about what people believed. The question is what did the Yorubas believe? Not who is the real God!

All these natures/forces came from something (Creator).

who told you this? Did you experience it directly or indirectly?!

Joshthefirst: an atheist might soon come here to indoctrinate you ma'am.

Man does not attain perfection by death.
When we die, we stand before God in judgement. If you have done sin, you stand condemned. And God as a judge judge, will condemn any sinful man to hell. If you have never sinned in your life, you're okay. But as far as I know, all have sinned. That's why we need Jesus. With his sacrifice, we are acquitted before God.

The bolded excerpt of your post reveals that sin is actually a crime -- divine crime. Unlike what most posters say herein, destruction and suffering are not the natural consequences of sin, rather God imposes suffering and destruction as punishments for sins. In other words, to sin is not cause one's self harm, rather attract God's punishment.

I would use Adam as an example. God ordered Adam not to eat the fruit, and contrary to the order/law, Adam did. Adam's sin does not throw him out of the Garden, rather God did as punishment

The next issue is: would there be sin without God.

No, because the law has its justification in God's power and nothing else. In other words, God is just saying his own!

Therefore if man has freewill, he can legitimately will whatever he wants without regard for God's interest.

Can there be sin without God??

OLAADEGBU: "Adam didn't die the day God said he would!"

He certainly did. He died spiritually. The moment he sinned, he became "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1). Ezekiel 18:4 says, "The soul that sins, it shall die." It is because we are born spiritually dead that Jesus came to give us spiritual life (John 5:40; 10:10; 14:6; etc.). This is why Jesus told us that we must be born again (John 3:3). When we repent of our sins and believe in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that we "pass from death to life" (see John 5:24; Romans 6:13; 1 John 3:14).

"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart" (Ephesians 4:18) The Evidence Bible.

And the consequences of spiritual death is Hell, right? If all men are dead in spiritual prior to Christ, then all of such men including Abraham were destined for Hell. Untenable, right?

LMaoooo !!

Showing that the earth holds 70% water is not the proof, rather that such volume was sufficient to submerge the entire earth to the level of the highest mountains.

ireke: I think it's high time girls demand some proof of love too -
If you love me, you will not be in a hurry to get into my pants
If you love me, you will know that Love is not all about s.ex
If you love me, you will not force or trick me for your s.exual pleasure
If you love me, you will put the need to avoid pregnancy above your need to "feel me skin to skin"
If you love me, you will think about what will happen if "we" get pregnant
If you love me, you will not put me through the risk of abortion
If you love me, you will not even mention abortion to me

I pray that my sons and their generation will be REAL MEN that show these types of proof of love.

What about love for same sex, without sex

Abstinence is the weakest protection, it is only a mental barrier/defence. That stands against the hormonal and emotional pressures a woman is biologically built to naturally have. The end result, the woman is unprepared.

Is this good news? We can finally kill off children whom we belive are demonically possessed and aid their transition into hell

harbiola1: Pagans are the one that attributed divinity to them. And u're wrong if you want to face reality.


I know, but my question is; "Before Sango, Esu, Obatala et al, how do Yorubas worship Gods?


Islamic/Arab God and Yoruba God, is there any difference? I'm talking about God!


That could be due to many circumstances.


Why do you call Sango/Thor as "god of thunder"?

And what is the reality? That there is one God?! Are we still talking about Yoruba religious system? The fact is: it does not matter what pagans attribute, rather what the yoruba mythology is about.

Mythologies develop and are in sync with culture and are in natural evolution. Most of the Gods lack an origin story, for example Obatala. Some Gods appear suddenly.

Language is hopeless without context. Because the word God is used to describe a deity, does not automatically mean that it is a natural reference with another deity in a different culture! Take the Olorun as he is in Yoruba mythology, don't add to it. By trying to fit a monotheist God into a polytheist surrounding, you are causing your confusion and need to kill off the other ancillary Gods.

In the past, men influenced by their inductive experience of man's creative prowess, believed that all order have a purpose and that the Gods with the reflective powers of man, created such. And Yorubas are not the only ones. Thousands of cultures believe in Gods of fertility, rain, harvest, war, etc. Even Islamic and Christian Gods are a reflection of man's creativity.