₦airaland Forum

steady986:
They'll do anything to propel MJ as the GOAT. The hand checking rule has been in constant modification since the 90s. This one right here is a modification that was made prior to the 94 season.

I am currently watching a bunch of the sets that the 2014 Spurs ran, and with due respect to anyone's basketball knowledge. I do not for the life of me know how handchecking would have impacted that team, with all their ball movements, swings, cutting and screens.
Another thing, has anyone noticed the amount of staggered screens that as now become a standard fair of most of the very good offenses.

Roland17:
You must be misconstruing the hand check. During the era you are alluding to, opposing players could use their hands to hold or check the body of the attacking players either in an attempt to steal the ball or disrupt the flow/ bounce of the player. They could close the space between them and the offensive players and still keep their hands on the body of the offensive player. Many also used the hand check to measure the distance between the attacking player and the opposing player with many ending inside the body of the attacking player.

Over time, it evolved into quick intermittent touches to the body of the attacking player, including positions where they face each other with the aim of slowing the player or winning the ball off the player. When an attacking player dribbled the ball, it was legal for me to keep sustained hand check on the opposing player in an attempt to steal, now, it is illegal to have any body contact worth more sustained hand contact.

When a defending players can use their hands to make extended contact on the opposing player, it slows the attacking player and increases the degree of difficulty to drive to the bucket or spot up to take a jumper. With the hand check there was no space between the player bouncing the ball and the defender. It was legal for the defending player to pressure into the body of the player bringing the ball up or bouncing the ball. This is another reason why centers thrived during that era. They could back the opposing player who is making repeated attempts with their hands to either steal the ball or flat out move the player away from the paint. Now, it wasn’t pretty because it was physical and slowed the game but it buttresses the degree of difficulty that era played in.

Today, you can’t even make any contact with an offensive player on any part of the court. Offensive players can stop and jump from anywhere. They can walk the ball up and expect the opposing player to respect their space which means they can get into shooting motions almost immediately. Defending players are now left with just raising their hands and still hope they don’t get called for even staying straight. Remember, it wasn’t until this season that the NBA erased fouls initiated by offensive players. For decades we watched offensive players invade the space created and still get fouls.

Hand checking as I know it, is when a defender puts his palm on the hip area, or back of the offensive player and uses it, as an extra for want of a better word sensory guide to help predict where the offensive player would go with the ball. The very best even could use it to gradually move an offensive player to where they want the player to go.
Touching a player facing you up has always being a foul as far as I know. Yes you can try stealing the ball or disrupting their handle, but you cannot touch a player who has a dribble and is facing you up.
So,How do you hand check someone facing you? which part of their body can you touch? is it the arms, chest or shoulders? Touching any of the above has always being a foul.

I have a question about hand checking? Every time someone brings up the softness of today's nba's defense they more often than not claim that hand checking would have slowed so and so down. Going back and watching some of the 90s and 80s basketball games/highlights, I have noticed that hand checking is done to a player who is posting up, most PGs in those days initiated a lot of sets with their backs facing the basket.
So my question is how do you hand check a guy who is playing you face up, the game now has all the best players playing facing the baskets from the PGs to even the big men, so can someone please explain how handchecking would work in today's game when for example Giannis is running at you at top speed and getting from mid court to the rim with just one dribble.

felix00:
Hmm. It's looking like Ben Simmons might return for the play off
Ben Simmons being available should limit Taytum to an extent

So Simmons in his first game will be expected to check Tatum 1v1 Barbecue chicken alert

A40:
I don't understand anyone would be scared of that Brooklyn Nets team. They can't guard nobody. Steve Nash's coaching is dodgy.

His in play adjustments consists of two things,
1) play Kyrie for 40+mins
2)play KD for the whole game and only rest him during timeouts

felix00:
Final day of regular season.

So if you are the Boston Celtics, which opponent would you rather face in the first round?

Nets or Raptors(with unvaxed Jaylen Brown)

Bucks are probably gonna lose to the cavs as they are resting most of their key players

The Nets is the better match-up for the Celtics. Playing a team with no defensive identity when your calling card is a fluid passing offense, that's the dream.

PS: If the match-up happens Tatum will average 35pts easy

DeeMain:
I will say he deserves at least half of the tonnes of criticism so far. If what Magic Johnson said is true that Demar Derozan was about coming to Lakers until Lebron started talking with Russ, and I'm sure Lakers top echelon must have asked him to leak that to the press, then Lebron should take more responsibility for how everything panned out, in his utterances, in his comportment.

Lebron, AD, Pelinka and Buss should share the blame for how the season turned out. Period.

Does it detract from his greatness? No. It just shows he has weaknesses like all the rest.

Sad no one in that organization had the cojones to stop him from blocking his own success and the team's.

Hindsight is 20 20, anyone who says they foresaw the season DeRozan is having now is a big fat liar. DeRozan is not a good fit with Lebron if you take his last 3 years with the Spurs as a measuring stick, he is a better fit than Westbrook but still not a perfect fit, so let's not use that as a yardstick.
On paper the idea of trading or signing a PG who can takeover some playmaking from Lebron and allow him to take sets off and also carry the load when he is on the bench was and is still a great one. The Lakers just chose the wrong guy.

PS: I recall saying on this thread that the roster was not good enough anyways.

AD might be done, 18% from 3 and no 35+pt game in 40 games played this season ( for context, 11 players have scored 35+pts at least 10 times this season). Dude might just be on the backend of his career

Kyrie missed 20 shots against the Hawks and KD only took 28 shots. There is something wrong with those figures

felix00:
Boston Celtics center Robert Williams is feared to have suffered a meniscus tear in his left knee, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. It could lead to an indefinite absence, which would be a tough loss for the Celtics as Williams is shining as the starting center this season.

Williams was injured in Sunday night’s victory — Boston’s 24th in 28 games — and underwent an MRI today. Williams is first among 169 players who’ve defended 500-plus shots as the closest defender, per Second Spectrum tracking. Only Williams has held opponents sub-40 % shooting.

Sh****t, he was having a legitimate DPOY season. The Celtics just got screwed for the playoffs

steady986:
Lol. You're only noticing him now because his team is good. That's it. In this league no one gives a hoot about you if your team is bad, and that's sad. I for one have always maintained that KAT is a top 5 big man in this league.

The thing about KAT, at least for the few games I've seen him this year is that he had added a bit of aggression to his game. There is at least 3 to 5 times a game where he drives hard to the rim and finishes through contact. In previous seasons he settled too much for 3s and jump shots. Also, he had improved a lot on defense, such that he is no longer a negative on that end.

felix00:
The defense issue should be sorted if Ben Simmons makes it back before play offs

Ben Simmons might not play this season

A40:
Our Akwa Ibom brother really doing well.

You worry too much about the Nets. They play too poor defensively to be a threat. I actually see Boston as a dark horse. And looking at the East Boston can still finish as high as 2nd seed.

Guys like udoh, Monty and cavs coach are just killing it this season.

A40:
Well to some nerds this style of basketball is the best and most skilled in history. I don't think they are going to alter these rules anytime soon. However we have seen that basketball is really a game of trends and once the 3point spamming stops winning (which we are starting to see somewhat come playoff time) teams would start making some changes.

I'm not upset about it. It just irritates me when people go on about how the current league is so much better when we can clearly see that teams are simply shooting more 3s than have ever been shot

The issue as far as I see it, is not that they think it's a case of better basketball. It is that they know that this is smarter basketball. In the OG days you will see a role player who somehow gets the ball stepping in and taking a jumper from around 18ft, and making them at a clip of, around the low to mid 40%.
Nowadays, that same player will not take that same little forward dribble, to take the 2, but he will shoot the 3, if he makes it at anything above 35% and can defend, he becomes a member of the scarce 3nD club.
So you have a situation where the agent and the development staff in the team are in lockstep in regards to the skillset they want a role player to develope and improve upon. The Team trainers believe that will help the team and the agent knows his client can parlay that skillset into a 10+ years career, where they can earn 80-100 million dollars in career earnings.

A40:
Can defense really be played? It's more hoping your opponent has a bad shooting night. Everybody is pulling up from 28ft. If a team makes 5 in a row or 7 out of 10 and the other team starts cold. They are down 15, guess what they also have to spam more 3s to get back in the game. Play less defense cause you need your legs under you and upper body torque to launch. Defense flies out the window

Thank you for pointing this out, it's a case of offense is the best defense when the 3s are falling. As for the spate of high points scored, it occurred to me that we have always seen 38 - 42 pts roll out from guys in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. This happen when guys, sometimes even role players, get hot and are in the zone.
The difference now is, instead of the long 18- 20ft long 2s, guys are taking 3s. Those additional 1 point just adds up and it makes it seem like it is something new.

birdman:
Indeed. I thought it was hugem because it gives them the scoring punch Porzingis never lived up to. And this guy likes to go to the rack. These playoffs are going to be crazy, t here are lots of middle seeded teams that can pull upsets. Bulls with Caruso and co returning from injury is a dark horse in the east as well.

If teams play to their standard, a lot of the first round series will be dog fights, with very few sweeps

The Mavs trade for dinwiddie has been paying dividends since day one. Hope it continues through the playoffs.

Roland17:
Congratulations to G. Popivic for becoming the NBA All time winning coach (regular season) in the history of the game. I think he already had it before yesterday if you combined his regular and post season records but I guess the league wanted separate records.

Greatest coach I've ever seen

A40:
You're clearly a JJC boxing fan. A complete novice, Confusing knockout power for lack of tekkers. If Foreman had no technique how was he able to retire then come back over a decade later and become a World champion at 45.

Foreman was an Olympic gold medalist and golden gloves winner. He actually had a proper amateur boxing background. Don't ever compare him to Wilder. You would look silly in the eyes of informed people

With all due respect there is absolutely nothing you can tell or teach me about boxing

Fury is great but fortunate to fight in arguably the weakest era in boxing history. His best opponent is agricultural boxers like Wilder (40 pounds lighter) who was still able to drop him 4 times, he was also bruised and bloodied by Otto freakin Wallin, just look at his record it's filled with the who is who of tomato cans. Think of what a more skilled and equally if not more powerful Foreman would have done

Norton was not that technical. If he was then he wouldn't get smoked so easily by Foreman.

You have no idea of boxing my man. Foreman totally changed his fighting style for his comeback and do you know who he borrowed his defence from? The same Ken Norton you just said is not a technical boxer.
Norton just like Frazier got smoked because Foreman had a hammer for fist, if it lands especially early there is no technical know how to save you.
If you are sure of your Foreman stance bring up any boxing analysis that calls his first stint as a boxer as technical, any boxing historian will tell you he was someone who always got bailed out by his power. So please stop this talk of Foreman being technical.

March 14th match-up Denver vs Sixers. Joker vs Embiid is gonna be lite

A40:
Anyone that knows anything about boxing knows Earnie Shavers is the best puncher in heavyweight history

Secondly fighting is not all about size Mr Man. One rightly placed blow to your temple and down you go. It don't matter if you're 3ft or 8'1. And claiming Fury is a better boxer than Ali and Foreman is a bad joke, the same Fury that almost lost to Otto freaking Wallin??

I am telling you again that if he could be dropped by an agricultural boxer like Deontay Wilder, Foreman and Ali would drop him several times and he would lose too many rounds to win the fight. These were guys that could go 15 rounds so cardio is not an issue.

The fact that you keep mentioning Foreman shows you are one of this new age boxing fans who thinks it's all about throwing punches (I bet you are in the camp of Mayweather is boring).
Foreman in his early years was basically Wilder, he was a Bomber, which is a one trick pony and that trick was he could hit like a horse. And using only that trick he was the undisputed champion, and beat Frazier senseless.
Boxing FYI is a science, which in it's purest form and mastery is not just about who is throwing the most punches,it is to hit while not getting hit. Foreman in his early days is in no way a poster boy of technical boxing, so please Fury will destroy him and Frazier.
As for Ali Fury is bigger than him as fast as him as is the better technical boxer. Ali always had issue with technical boxers from Frazier to Norton and co.

A40:
My guy is outchea lying his ass off

Giannis vs the Suns - 20% from 3
Giannis vs the Hawks - 12% from 3

He was also shoot less that 40% from FT, in some of those series and still won. The fact he was willing to take them as opposed to previous seasons where he would still just motor into blockages and get stopped made defenses go out to contest him.
There is a reason why people rail on Ben Simmons, it's not because he is missing shots, but because he refuses to take them

Russell Wilson got some balls on him if he accepts that trade. Sheezzee, that division is gonna be a bloodbath

A40:
Who said it's a negative or positive. I'm merely showing you that if a bang average boxer with no tekkers can drop Fury then it's laughable to claim more capable and mobile boxers like Ali, Frazier, Foreman wouldn't drop him at a higher clip

If he can survive getting dropped by arguably the best puncher in history. I say he survives foreman, Frazier and Ali punches and wins all those fights because he is bigger, stronger and a better boxer than all of them.

A40:
Guy dey cap small small abeg nau

Giannis shot 12% from 3 against the Hawks and 20% from 3 in the Finals

But did they sag against him. NO

joshboo:
So it was Giannis and jokers ability to shoot tons of 3's that won them mvps abi wetin be this? Nawa

Joker won the MVP because he added an aspect to his game that centers before him were not judged on i.e passing and actually running an offense, which includes the ability to shoot from anywhere.
Giannis won the chip because he became an okay shooter from 3, which ensured that teams could no longer just sag off him.

A40:
He knows nothing about Boxing. He just casted himself with that talk. A poverty boxer like Wilder dropped him 4 times what does he think would happen if he faced guys that could actually box

So getting dropped and getting back up, is now a negative?
He fought for the championship after 2 years out, where he had to not only deal with addiction but also weight issues

A40:
I don't even know what their definition of skill is. Cos we were all here last season and last two seasons when they told us Giannis has no skills.

For all this argument the only player I can defer to is Jokic who can actually run an offense. The rest is like arguing who is more skilled btw Skip to my Lou and Steph Curry. Is your skills translating to Ws or Finals MVPs is all I care about

So being better shooters is not a skill improvement?

joshboo:
A casual would see this stat line abd start to dey foam for mouth, how would julius randle, i mean randle shoot 16 3's in a game and you tell me the game isn't flawed today?

this is the height of uselessness for a big man to shoot this ton.

The game is being played smarter. Maybe that annoys some people but that is a fact. The first time I started to actually understand shooting percentages In the early 2000s, it always suprised me why some people chose to take the 18ft over just taking the 3.
Shooting 50% from 18ft was a great percentage in the good old days, but shooting 35% from 3 is better and that is just a fact.

A40:
Lol. Bam? Now you're just taking the piss

Are you serious right now? Didn't I tell you the only thing bigs do better now is shoot the 3? Did you watch Shaq before he was a 300 pounder? In his Orlando days when he was still slim?

Zion? Lmaoooo. Zion is basically Blake Griffin with more melanin. Stop mistaking genetics for actual skills

Did you watch Hakeem? Chris Webber? David Robinson, Karl Malone?

I'm asking you again. What is today's league and bigs better at besides spamming 3 point shooting

This is where I always have issue with all this old days were better. From Hakeem to Webber is 3 plus decades of basketball. If we start this new 3ball era from 2015, we are just at 7 years and guess what in that time we already have 3 bigs who are MVP caliber in Joker, Embidd and Giannis, and maybe 2 more depending on how you categorize them can legitly be all nba level, in AD and KAT.
In another 23 years I will bet the quantity of players will match up with those who have come before.

A40:
Why hasn't boxing evolved? Why are those guys still better than what we have now

DTs and Defensive ends nko?

We're not infinite beings so there will always be a cap to our evolution in terms of physical abilities

Tyson fury will beat the hell out of Ali, Frazier and co.
LT was 6ft 3 240lbs and was considered a unicorn when he played. Nowadays every single NFL teams has a player with better physical traits at OLB. By the way LT was for most of his destructive years blocked by TEs, there is a reason he is given as the reason for the preeminence of Left tackles in today's game.

A40:
This is a lazy argument. Every sport has their golden era so that you're newer doesn't make you better, perhaps certain rules might have been implemented to make the game a bit easier does not mean you're fundamentally better at your core.

It's like boxing. You want to tell me these era of middleweights and heavyweights will compare to those of the 80's? Or the heavyweights of the 70's? Come off it.

Which wide receiver today compares with Jerry Rice? Which running back today compares with Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith. Which defensive player compares with Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor

Just say you're biased to your new era and go. Because diminishing the players of that era means you're inadvertently downplaying the greatness of those players due to their competition.

You are mentioning the very best players. I will argue that what determines a great era is the quality of the average player, and the average player now is a far better player than the average player then.
For goodness sake, the best online in the 80s was arguably that of the then Redskins and none of them weighed 300lbs.
Put out any olineman with guys less than 300lbs in today's game andany average front 4 will destroy them.
The average sportman now is faster, bigger and stronger than those in the 80s and 90s, with better nutrition and more advanced recovery process.