₦airaland Forum

I just want to make one observation, it seems to me like nba basketball is the only huge sport where people constantly say that the average player from an older era is better than those currently playing.
In football, no one ever says that the current era of players are worse than those Maradona, Pele or Cruff played against even though we all know that they were also rule changes put in place to remove excessively dangerous tackles and tactics.
Same with the NFL, I have never heard people argue than the average player in the 80s or 90s are better than those now even though they have been a plethora of rules changes to make the game less physical and more safe.
The question then is, why is the nba different?

steady986:
Whenever arguments about era comes up, they quickly bring up the usual clichés like 3 point shooting and rule changes. Talking about Tatum averages 5 more threes than Bird did. If he averages 5 more threes, does that not equate to just 5 points? The way they make it seem like one three is worth 5 points more than two.

Leave these cats abeg, they know the truth. They just want to protect their fave. Anybody who knows basketball would know that this era is way more talented than the past. The superstars will be superstars, no matter the era, so we can't start talking about how LeBron would have fared in the past or how MJ would fare in this era. They'd all be dominant. It's the not so superstars we're talking about. You have guys like Jason Tatum, whom many don't consider a superstar yet, having performances that would make him an automatic superstar in eras past. Wasn't it Trey Young who couldn't even make all-star with 29 and 9? There's a proliferation of talent in the tiers below the superstar cadre. Although most of the all time greats of the past era were good, their status were improved by the fact that they won a lot of personal accolades and championships. But how wouldn't they win everything when there was really no competition. The gap between the very best and the rest was massive. Back then you had the top tier, and then the rest were average, with a little athleticism to make it look like they actually can play. Today I could give you a 10 tier list of players with Kyrie in tier 5 and Donovan Mitchell in tier 7. That's how competitive it is now.

I recall watching a video where KAJ was talking about this era of basketball, and one thing he mentioned was that the players now are way better shooters than those from his era.

birdman:
The damage is already done. The next CBA will rewind all the fight and hard work used to negotiate the current one. Players sat out half a season and lost salaries to get here. A few selfish players Kyrie, Simmons, Harden, Zion will have succesfully screwed up the future for players. A big shame.

Assinn, the owners have been handed a lot of ammunition that they will use to screw the players. For the players sake, they should be hoping the nobody else does anything to worsen the situation and maybe hope for some thrilling nba finals with huge ratings to cover up some of the stink

joshboo:
Oga he isn't called LeGm for nothing, let's be realistic here, lebron assembled this new look lakers team.

We should stop exaggeration, does the gm get his approval before finalizing a deal, YES, but that is just like every franchise player in the league. News already came out that the Nets only made the trade for Harden both times because KD signed off on it. On the sixers side, the only reason the deal for Harden was not made sooner was because Embiid wanted Beal and only accepted the Harden trade because Beal had season ending surgery.

Roland17:
Knicks fans no kukuma get joy before! They are now chanting “Let’s go Heat”

Zion better keep that him midget mentality for New Orleans because NY go chop am raw, dem no send! Na everyday him go cry go house after any bad performance.

If that is his end goal, then he better be ready because new York media has no chills at all

joshboo:
As in, Bron would always be Bron. Now him dey try out the blame in Pelinka who Cleary wanted buddy heild etc. Bron na chief assembler, once the assembling cast him go jump ship. Now na that young Cleveland team him Wan go scatter. Imagine all this nonsense & he expects people to recognize him as the Goat? imagine letting Caruso go just because you Wan assemble team. No be curse, dem no go make the play-in, talk more of the play-offs

So it was Bron that let Caruso go, not Pelinka? Hmm the plot thickens

A40:
Are you seriously comparing what the Raptors gave up for Kawhi to what the Lakers gave for AD? They got Danny Green and Kawhi for essentially DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and Keldon Johnson. Are you kidding? How do you even compare that to what you gave up for AD?

What shot? I promise you if not for that bubble break no way LeNomad wins that last title. With this Russia and Ukraine situation maybe another break will fall LeNomad's way who knows?

Danny Ainge got to two finals, only missed a chance at another final because KG was hurt. The Celtics maximized their trade. The Lakers haven't. Fluking a championship and fading to irrelevance while mortgaging your future is not maximizing

A chip is a chip, i swear if it was anybody except for Lebron people will not be talking about any covid break. Timmy has 1 ring because of a lock out shortened season and nobody talks about it.

The Celtics won one chip with that trade and after fleecing the Nets has done nothing with all the boat load of picks they got. This is my very issue with all this lebron slander, teams have traded away way more picks for less results, than what the Lakers have gotten and nobody gives them grief for it. Worse we talk as if they have no assets, if the Lakers put Lebron up for trade next season teams will still put up an unprotected lottery pick. AD is still worth multiple 1 round picks, so which future did they mortgage away.

A40:
Are you comparing the Lakers to a backwater franchise like Toronto Raptors? Do you see anyone scrutinizing Toronto? There's a difference between expectations for both teams. And there will always be. Toronto is never expected to win a championship and have been punching above their weight all this time

Bear in mind they didn't mortgage anything for Kawhi. They lost nothing so I don't quite understand this comparison

Under Kobe the Lakers had 7 years without a chip, after Shaq left, nobody killed him for that. This Lakers team still has a shot at another title till Lebron contract runs out.
The Raptors gave up and all-star, a shooter and a 1st round pick for a one year rental. If Lebron had been a member of that team, you will be screaming to the heavens that he was the one who forced the deal.

PS: D Ainge was practically worshipped in Boston for more than a decade and all he had to show for it was 1 championship

steady986:
Lol. People mentioning how the Suns are doing well with CP3 and a young core, how the Grizzlies are doing well with pieces they drafted, how the Warriors are coping well post KD, how the Heat are resurging recently, how the Cavs are doing fine post LeBron. Help me ask them how many championships these teams have won in the time period. Lol. We always want to talk about how the Lakers have done poorly by mortgaging their future, how they sought quick success rather than having patience in developing their drafts. Lol. They fail to mention the championship they won as a result of all that. There are 30 teams in this league, and if the Lakers are only able to win one championship in 30 years then that's still on par.

We like to judge the Lakers differently. A team that just won a championship 2 years ago. Talking about they mortgaged their future. Even if we don't win a championship until we're able to get good drafts in 2026, we're good. The Celtics haven't won a championship since 2008, and yet we're receiving moral lessons by a fan on how to win championships . It took us 8 years to win post Shaq, and 10 to win after that. Lol. If we don't win within the next 6-8 years, or at least if we are not competitive, then you can raise the alarm. I would do that AD trade again if given the opportunity. It turned into a championship, nothing else matters.

Thank you, the level of vitriol Lebron receives sometimes, even I who is more of a Kobe/Timmy guy just does not understand. The NBA is about winning the championship, all those story about being competitive without winning it all is bollocks.

steady986:
It's like you're not even aware of what the DeRozan situation was then. The only way we could have traded for him was a sign and trade (assuming SA was willing to do that. And why would they?), and doing that would have hard capped us. And he wasn't going to take a MLE from us to put us within cap

DeRozan was only going to work as a sign and trade. The major reason that deal and the one for Lowry did not work was the GMs fixation with THT. Now what is THT doing? absolutely nothing.

donlittle25:
I don’t get why people are missing the point.

You can draft well and compete for 7-8 years when the time is right or you can put pieces together and compete for 3 years, and maybe with luck win a championship. Losing so many cards while trying to put pieces together is the bad way to go like the lakers. They just don’t have any bargaining chips. None. Hopefully they can become a FA destination once again but most guys are plying their trade with other markets these days and are able to attract serious endorsements which only big teams could offer before. That was the selling point of these big teams but you could find that almost anywhere now if you are good enough.

The draft is a crap shoot. Nobody has figured out the formula on how to quantify a can't miss prospect. That is why, if you already have a bonafide number 1 option in place, drafts picks are meant to fill up the team. The goal of an nba team is to win, not to be competitive. Ask the Raptors and they will tell you that the past 4 years were better than all those years they kept losing in the playoffs. Yes they only won 1, but if you hook Masi and co to a polygraph they will tell you it was worth it because they have proven that they have what it takes to build a team which can win it all because they have done it before.

PS: The worst is when it comes to legacy, nobody cares about how many playoffs you made, they all care about if you won a chip.

donlittle25:
Any player that gives you the ability to win as a team for over a decade and a half with five rings to show for it. If you have to tank for 6 years straight to get it right again, I don't understand how that is a loss. Anyways, Spurs fan no they complain


You got me there but na weyrey front office be that. Zach Lavine, KAT, and Wiggins could have developed together but that win now mentality to trade for Butler disrupted the whole team. With the emergence of Zach, I am sure they are regretting it anyways.

See point No 1, The king gave you 6 rings and Retired, Didn't leave. Tank for 20 years if you have to. Na 6 rings we they talk about.

Hmmmm

Yes hit the reset, but thats what we are saying here. Lakers didn't want to hit the reset, now they have mortgaged their future for a bubble ring and left with terrible situations all around.


What is this?

I love AI, DEN MELO, NASH, STOCKTON, but i miss the part where they won a ring for their respective teams so what do you mean by what have they achieved?

Philly has been to the EC finals, DENVER has been to the Western conference finals with two of the top youngest players in the game not including MPJ(Always Injured), Suns just went to the conference finals, and JAZZ with Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert.

I am talking about what happens after every true franchise player leaves a team, whether they win or not, it immediately results in a rebuild. The lazy narrative that it only happens when Lebron leaves a team is what I have issues with. It happens when every great player leaves a team

Roland17:
Oh waoooooo! This is as low as it gets bro!!!!

The promising players have gone ahead to become corner pieces for their respective teams and got paid! In a bid to sell the now debunked narrative about LeBum improving others, you are conveniently using injuries to undervalue the growth and development of Ingram/ Ball and Hart. Ingram left the LeBum and became an All Star, 2020 most improved player and is still balling hard as the center piece of the Pelicans without Zion. Lonzo improved his jump shot, now a legit 3 point scoring threat and has his Bulls tied for the 1st place in the Eastern conference. The same can be said of J. Hart and Kuzma.. Not all pieces turn out to be Superstars but there is strong evidence that since those guys left, they have become better players and improved from what they were when they played with LeBum.

Not everything has to be a debate, it is okay to admit that LeBum does better when he is surrounded by stars/ superstars and established players than when he is playing alongside young players. You don't have to undervalue others just to promote the now debunked narrative, it is a hard sell. Not every rookie is going to go on to become a KD/ Giannis/ LeBum/ Curry but that doesn't mean they are bad players when they improve and become core pieces like Ingram and Ball have become since they left the Lakers. Injuries are inevitable aspects of the game but it shouldn't underscore what players have achieved.

What a load of Baloney,, Ingram and the Pelicans are going nowhere fast, if Ball was such a great building block the Pelicans would never have let him walk for nothing.
I reiterate the Lakers just got a 34 year old FA who was at the time the best player in the league, anybody whose impression was that they would wait for the development of their young pieces beyond that first year they played together, does not understand how to build a championship side at all.

Roland17:
You are right, the Lakers with those young pieces will not beat any of the top 4 teams in the West because those cats would not have developed into what they are now playing alongside LeBum. After the Lakers traded Ingram/ Hart/ Ball here is their playoff records..

2019- Missed the playoffs
2020-Champions
2021-Lost 4-2 in the 1st round, with your MCM averaging 23pts.
2022- Currently 9th, possibly a playin?

Show me where the progress has been? The Lakers are stuck at the moment and there is no where to go at this point than a reset, maybe not a hard reset like tanking but a reset is inevitable. They have traded picks until 2026, that is 4 years, 4 season from now! Bro, do you really like the Lakers organization/ fan base or you just like anything that promotes the narrative of your MCM?

Lebron is still under contract till 2023, AD till 2025. If they want an earlier reset, they can trade both and recover all of their assets. You are talking as if the Lakers did not experience worst Purgatory when Kobe was there, or immediately after Magic left.
The Lakers if they play their cards right still have options. They can either pay a huge luxury tax next year,or blow it up and reload with a bus load of picks.

joshboo:
Big fan of LBJ but he's being ruining things since 1802. Now he wan japa go Cleveland back. big clown, after running around and mashing teams chemistry up like a panini he wants to be recognised as the goat.. clown

What have the Spurs done since Duncan left? What has the Timberwolves achieved since KG left?
How long did it take the bulls to even get to a conference championship after MJ left them?
Sixers after AI, Denver after Melo, Suns after Nash, Jazz after Stockton and Malone. The list goes on and on.
This idea that its only when Lebron leaves a team, that's when they suck is laughable.
A nba team is supposed to suck after losing a their franchise player, that is when management is supposed to reset and then use their picks to get the next guy, but most of them either suck at evaluating talent or want to tread water just for ticket sales

A40:
That's on Boston. Not every team is going to draft smart. What did Brooklyn do with the old men they got from the trade? 1 playoff series win?

Lol again Philly did not draft with sense. Whose fault? Is it anybody's fault that Philly drafted two #1 picks at PG that cannot shoot to save their lives in this modern era?

Timberwolves are going nowhere but they are ahead of the Lakers that have mortgaged their future in the standings. Ok

The same way you can miss on draft picks is the same way you miss on FA or you're forgetting how the Lakers struggled after Shaq left? No be Lakers pay Luol Deng and Timofey Mozgov or you think it's everytime Lakers will be able to attract good Free agents?

So if I gave you a bet, Lakers or the Timberwolves, which ones will win a championship first, who will you pick?

donlittle25:
I don't get how anybody is not seeing it this way. Worse for the Lakers, You have a guy who wants to play with his son in the NBA. So Lakers should mortgage their future more for a guy that will leave to another team to fulfil his desires of playing with bronny.

Abi Lakers wan mortgage everything draft bronny too thats not even top 5 best player in the country right now?

It's obvious Lakers are looking long term

All this Top 100 high school ranking is nothing but rubbish, more often than not the supposed top guys tend to flop and those ranked lower flourish. The league is currently filled with lowly ranked players balling out.
It's like watching the fifa u17, most of the best players at that age never make it

A40:
No shit Sherlock. However a lottery pick that has to play with a top 3 to top 5 player of all time surely is less likely than most to be a bust because of the situation they find themselves.

If the Lakers had not made that trade they might not have won but suggesting that a combination of Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Lebron, Caruso would not have contended is a sad joke. If not for team chemistry and good coaching wetin make Jordan Poole, Mikal Bridges, Jae Crowder and Cam Payne better than what the Lakers would have had?

Anyway we are seeing the benefits of their maximization.

A fluke bubble chip and 1 first round exit, they will probably need to win two games just to make the playoffs in their 3rd year

3 players consuming over 75% of their cap space for this season and the next. Two of them with 15 seasons or more in the league, the other a perma crock

A bunch of one year rentals that nobody wants

No first round picks till 2027.

What has Boston done with all the Nets picks, what has the sixers gotten for all the tanking for the process, the Timberwolves, currently has about 4 lottery picks on their team and they are going nowhere fast. Picks are worth nothing when compared to established talent.
You talk as if the Lakers are not the number one FA destination in the nba as long as they have their house in order.

A40:
You mean the great Lebron who makes everyone better couldn't improve two lottery picks and Kuzma and Hart? So what goes through people's heads when they spew foolishness about how LeNomad makes others better?

Bear in mind guys like Lonzo and Ingram are just hitting their primes. Anyway I hope the bubble chip was worth it. The Lakers essentially gutted their future for that. 1 year of joy for 10 years of famine

Again with the false narrative, lottery picks mean nothing, there are more lottery picks who have fall into the bust, and under achievers bracket than they have been lottery picks who have validated their drafts status. When you sign a 34 as a FA, you either have players who from their first season have shown they are ready to win now or you trade whatever you have to maximize the late prime of your FA. If the Lakers had not made the trade they would not only have not won, but right now they will not even be in contention. Does a team of lebron, Ingram and Ball beat any of the top 4 team in the east of even the suns and GSW as constructed. The answer is an emphatic NO.

PS: They laker have only traded their picks up until 2026.

A40:
If LeNomad makes everyone better like Bronsexuals swear he does why can't he mentor 4 promising players that would have been primed to shoulder the burden from his neck by now?

You think if not for COVID that allowed AD and LeNomad 3 months of rest they would have won the title?

You're banking on a guy that has already showed you previously that he's good to miss 12-15 games a season. Ok.

Anyway their bed has been laid, now is the time to lie pon it

No matter how good Lebron his, the Lakers talent was not good enough to win because they drafted the wrong players. What has the promising players done since leaving to show they could have won with them? Nothing, Ingram and Ball seem to also have the injury bug, Kuzma and Hart are just rotation pieces, so what exactly did they lose

birdman:
He is not playing because of mgmt decision. Wall shoots better than WB. More assists, less TO. Thinks better on the court. Again, go check the stats. 20pts 8 assists average last year. Lakers and Rockets exchange large contracts of players not working out == Win win win.

Lebron is 37. The heir apparent doesnt want any smoke. It is what it is.

That deal should have been made.

I keep hearing this narrative that Lebron trading the young Lakers talent was some how bad. Please does anyone think they would have won with Ingram, lonzo, Kuzma and Josh Hart.
IMHO you are trading consecutive 1st or 2nd round exits for 6-7 years for 1 chip an that is only because of AD's continuous injuries. If the dude could stay healthy for a playoff run, they might still have one shot at it

CP3 village people at it again. Hope he can get back before the playoffs �

Roland17:
Is Big Ben a for sure first ballot?

The Steelers brain trust will make him a first ballot

The Celtics have been playing better basketball for the past month.

The Rams has a huge rebuild for next season, but they should enjoy this and hope Stafford gives them a discount

There were people talking about draft picks with respect to the Rams. Draft picks ain't worth sh*t unless you can win.
Anyone will take a superbowl over 4 1st draft picks

They are doubling and tripling 99. The guy puts fear in the hearts of oline men

DeeMain:
You are projecting your understanding unto me.

1. I said no to excessive retaliation. Jokic's retaliation to a cheap shot was excessive.
2. You guys proposed ' when-provoked-strike from impulse' I proposed when provoked-think-act/strike appropriately.

Note that in provoked-think-strike appropriately, the appropriate thing could actually mean killing an aggressor to defend yourself..

3. I said acting out your raw feelings, acting out of instinct like an animal when provoked could get you in trouble. Educate your impulses to avert a life of regret.

How does the above turn into:
"You on the other hand believed he should have walked up to Markieff and calmly reasoned with him not to do it again."

"There is time for grammar and time to act". : I already said that bro. You have to know when to fight/hold on/walk away/run.

"Even in a court of law he can argue that he was provoked by Markiefs initial aggression and the law will grant some leeway".:

Me: Some leeway by a Judge could mean 10 years behind bars bro.

There is a reason why no one has ever tried to legislate injuries gotten while playing most professional sports. The idea that a human who pumped full of adrenaline and testosterone will act reasonably is totally laughable.
For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction

Roland17:
He even employed the twin tower of Ayton/ McGee together in stretches of the game.

Assinn, it was little adjustments like that, that make great coaching. Another thing, the suns are one of the few teams that actually run set plays on a regular. The league just has too many teams, who as soon as they are anywhere near the 3pt line, whoever catches it just Jack's up a three, even with loads of time on the shot clock.

Roland17:
Congratulations to the GOAT on winning his 2nd consecutive MVP and 4th in total.

As far his future, I have a funny feeling he is done with my Packers and will be moving.

Rodgers deserves it, I just hope whatever team he goes to understands his biggest weakness and builds a team to cover it up for him

Seriously, the coaching Monty is doing at Phoenix is extraordinary. I really enjoy watching a coach who jettisons this idea of a specific system and keeps everything on the table. Yesterday, because of the Bucks lack of size, he just went basic and fed the big man whenever there was a size mismatch, and it was devastatingly effective.
I really wonder why it took this long for him to get another shot at becoming a head coach, because the dude can coach basketball