₦airaland Forum

Chaps,

so there is no uniform, standard way of pray in christianity?

jclord...save the readers of this forum some time and paste the verses please.

these are the sort of stuff that makes you see the power of living in a media/oral society. What happened to hard facts, researching and reading things to understand and get the hard core stuff and not listening to people? You want to understand muslims, dont watch George Bush or listen to pat robertson, Go the our main guidance..the holy quran...get it and read the translation.....ask us and before you start bashing us

You agree that you can pray in the toilet......based on what? Did jesus pray in the toilet? If your statement (christianity is a way of life and not a religion is correct) then show us where you get this conclusion from, or quote us a verse from the bible. Thats your holy book which should contain the way/code of living, praying etc. quote us something.

Firstly
Go to churches all over the word. Christians don't have to Kneel down to Pray. Its not a rule. They do it just as a sign of obeisance/submission/respect.
Not only religion but even some cultures (like yorubas) expect the girls to kneel and guyz prostrate - bow when meetin an elder. Its just an outward symbol/expression of an inner feeling. U can show urs whihever way u like.

Secondly
When Jesus Prays, he not only kneels but sometimes fall to his face and at other times, he prays standing. However Jesus prayed to God with a distinct intimacy. God was his Father and he was God's son. There was a childlike, filial quality to his prayer. It wasnt a ritual

Jesus prayed regularly, his first disciples recalled. He prayed before decisive moments, beginning with his baptism and as he faced his passion and death. He prayed in times of human weakness and death, as he did at the grave of Lazarus (he didnt kneel down). He frequently prayed to give thanks. His prayer was steady, thankful, and confident that God's will was for his good.

Jesus Though us how to pray. he thot us 3 things
First, that true prayer should come from the heart. He prayed from within, not with just words or gestures. His prayer was not based only on feelings or passing emotions. Prayer comes from within, beyond level of feelings, from ourselves. Sometimes prayer from the heart takes the form of words, at other times it may be like his own wordless cry.

Secondly, prayer is fed by faith. Jesus prayed with an unwavering faith in his heavenly Father, a faith that lasted till his death. He taught us to pray also with childlike faith in God, believing that our prayers are heard by One who loves us.

Thirdly, prayer should be steady and persevering as his prayer was, even when no answer comes or when no relief is in sight. "Watch and Pray," he says, "Seek and knock," till the door that reveals God's holy will be opened.


He never taught us to always kneel before praying cuzz he himself prayed several times without kneeling

When the disciples asked him to teach how to pray, read his response in Luke 11:1-4. He never told them to always kneel.

"Christianity is a way of Life not a Religion."

It would be nice sharing ideas....but christianity is a faith which is based on the bible. So instead of you giving us your thoughts etc, can you please point us to some evidence...some bible quotes which states Jesus praying or how he prayed?

exu is right.....unless you have a hatometer that measures peoples feelings and you can scientificlly prove that a muslim hates a jew/america/israel.......have you not seen a jewish muslim? have you not seen an israeli muslim? have you not seen an american muslim? we dont hate them as you might be visiualising......we hate the fact that they oppress the poor the needy and are more interested in helping those who have a common objective with them.

What you watch about these countries is controlled hence you dont know how much they hate muslims for being against such views (oppression, interest rates etc).

Watch the following documentary from PBS (funded publicly and US goverment) and see how much hate their is that you dont know about.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/israel/view/

Jesus my Lord and Saviour is the difference, i hear the muslims refer to him as one of the numerous prophets but he is in truth the only begotten of the father and also equal, one and the same with God.

So God had sexual intercourse with Mary and begot Jesus? Do you know the meaning of begotten? sire? procreate?

we don't worship the same God. Jesus says he's the way the truth and the life. No one gets to God except through him. If muslim are really worship the God Jesus talked about then Jesus must have lied. And if Jesus didnt lie, then Muhamed must have lied then.

And where the teachings of Jesus? How should we worship the God he was referring to? What was the context of the message you are quoting? Was Jesus speaking to christians or jesus? Can you please tell us where Jesus said his religion is Chrisitainity? or his preachings will be called so? What act do you do when you worship the God of jesus that's similar to an act Jesus did?

Please forgive me for sounding ignorant, I just have this little thing about Islam that bugs me. The say if a Muslim man kills in the name of Islam, he'll have 80 (not sure of the number) virgins waiting for him in heaven. So what about the women of Islam, what do the get when the kill in the name of Islam?

Do you mind tell us where you get this from? quote it from your relevant sources.

@layi

My questions is based on the millions of christians kneeling when praying. Who introduced the concept of kneeling, because all christians have done it at one time or another. Second question is regarding Jesus and how he prayed. When he was asking for the cup to be take away from him, how did he pray to God? Kneeling?

@layi

good. Do you mind sharing with us where you get this answers from? As you stated, you can pray without kneeling, but why not share with us how the "God" who died for your sins prayed? Where did he pray? In a Church? How? by kneeling down and closing his eyes? Dont give me your opinions because if you do, then there's nothing like christianity. Every so called christian will have his/her way of praying/doing things hence you'll end up with billions of religions. But as you and i know, christianity is one single faith thats followed by billions of people, and all seem to kneel when they worship/pray to God. Who tells these people to kneel? God? You have gone down on your knees and prayed right? Who told you thats the way you pray? Where did you get that concept from? Why not climb the tallest tree or building and try and get closer to God up in heaven and pray to him? The latter shouldnt sound absurd if you cant come up with an explaination for the former.

@layi

So can you pray in the toilet?

Why do christians kneel when they pray? Is this practise illustrated or taught in the bible? If yes, where and if no, what does the bible say on how to pray to God!.

Can anyone reference the holy bible and give us a verse or statement made where such ruling (sin is a sin) is made? Whats the legal ruling (from the bible) regarding:

1. Homosexuality
2. Fornication

@ kismat
Thank you for your links, but I still found nowhere in those links where it is said that "to beget" must involve sex or intercourse!
I went further to click on SIRE and this was what i found:

1A Father B archaic:male ancestor:forefather C Author, originator.

And for procreate, it read:

to beget or bring forth child!

ALL these I agree with cause these definations have said nothing about sex/intercourse as youve been implying. They all refer to the " Father" said of parenthood.

About the christians who crucify themselves on good friday(am hearing that for the first time though). But I choose(believe) take your word on that. I don't do that,I don't have to do that cause The Christ has already made that sacrifice for me. Why they do that? I don't know? Why not ask them? My explanation? They are sick,mislead, confused and need deliverance.

Allow me to put the whole meaning of sire:

1 a : FATHER b archaic : male ancestor : FOREFATHER c : AUTHOR, ORIGINATOR
2 a archaic : a man of rank or authority; especially : LORD -- used formerly as a form of address and as a title b obsolete : an elderly man : SENIOR
3 : the male parent of an animal and especially of a domestic animal


Read the three meanings and you'll understand the word sire/beget and who it might be used for. Beggetting is an animal act. If God beget, then he created something like him which is totally and absolutely beyond explaination. How could the uncreated create another uncreated? God never eats, sleeps, drinks water, cry, shit, get circumcised and stops existing (dies). These were all done by Jesus which only shows how human he was like us. But its hard for christians to use their common sense when it comes to religion. If you do, by God grace you'll see how the whole religion is like a swiss cheese. Full of holes.

How do we humans procreate? Please ask a linguist what the word stands for. Stop looking for one word (father) which fits your belief and respond empirically. Understand the meaning of it. Can you call a two week old born child "father"? You cant use the word beget to God. Its shameful, blasphemous and something that doesnt befit HIM.

Unfortunately the concept of a perfect God doesnt exist or isnt tolerated in Christianity. You are told to leave logic/common sense at the door and enter into the world of faith. Makes you wonder why God gave us logic for? To be used on everything except him?

You believe that Jesus died for your sins etc (the core of christianity; salvation) right? Please respond to the topic "original Sin" https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-4642.0.html

I've answered your questions but your heart is dark and doesnt want to. So lets move on to something else please. thank you.

No answer? Shame on you then if you believe in Salvation, Jesus died for your sins.

@alheri

The word beget according to the following online dictionary is:

1 : to procreate as the father : SIRE
2 : to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth

source: http://www.m-w.com/

Oxford dictionary states:

beget
/biget/

• verb (begetting; past begot; past part. begotten) archaic or literary 1 produce (a child). 2 cause.
source: http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/beget?view=uk

I dont now what you are trying to point out (abolution using sand). thats just an alternative in cases where water isnt available or when someone cant perform abolution using water (e.g cold day/night when the water is cold and can make one die from hypothermia). See how islam is reasonable and simple?

I think you ought to spend more time reading about Islam and understanding it. Such questioning can either be good (if asked with the right intention of wanting to learning) or a way of showing us your ignorance (point out a mistake on a matter which you havent researched on properly or cant fully understand).

During Good friday (i honestly dont know what good there is to celebrate the death of a messiah), some christians cruxify themselves trying to simulate the pain Jesus might have suffered from. What does your religion say about such matter and whats your explaination?

ok kismat. So your major problem is the word "beget"?Now Ive pulled out my dictionary like you advised earlier.

The concise oxford dictionary of current English. The defination for  BEGET is as follows:

1( Usually of a father, sometimes of a father and mother) pro-create.
2 give rise to; cause

Can you provide us a link to what oxford dictionary you are referring to?

Personally, I understand why the abulution is performed by muslims though am not a muslim. I grew up around muslims and have muslim relatives. My question was actually to kismat who said that in Islam she can use logic to explain to another person everything done in Islam in a way that it would seem logical to him/her. And ORAKU raised a question earlier about how you can use logic to explain to a none muslim why after taking a bath with soap and spong and srubing yourself clean you cannot just go straight to saying your prayers having but must first perform the abulution as a means of "cleansing" . It doesnt seem logical to normal human reasoning. I know that, but tell that to some members of this forum who are atheist. How can you convience them that that makes you more "cleansed"(inside/out ) by performing the steps of abulution? Infact I can remember a muslim friend telling me that in a case where no water is available, you can use "sand" to perform the abulution!

My point is that you can't always explain things of religion, issues of faith with LOGIC!

The religion of Islam has been made easy to follow and practise. Imagine the difficulty of having to take a shower five times a day? We human beings have to use the toilet etc and such acts invalidate your cleansing. If God gave us options as imply, imagine how many "faiths", sects we humans will be divided into? One sect believes in taking a shower, one in abolution, one in doing both, people lliving along the sea coast decide to make swimming a must before praying etc. So the abultion has been made mandatory because its simple, easy and clear to do. Allah, who knows us better than we do has shown us a generic way of cleaning ourselves before worshipping him.

I hope i've answered your question.

Christianity is an emotional religion hence its appeal to women who (as clearly stated by my respected sisters here) are very emotional by nature. As for Islam, Man and Woman role are clearly defined and have exceptions. As the prophet clearly said, the best man is the one who is kind, loving etc to his wife and the best woman is the one who is obedient to her husband. As for women going to mosque, its discouraged and they (women) are suppose to pray at their homes. They get 27 times the reward of praying at the mosque. As one learned man put it, if we were to allow our women to perform all 5 daily prayers at the mosque, they will come a time when going to the mosque will be an excuse to go out and do all sorts of things. Just look at the the sunday mass and how it has turned into a "hook-up" center and you'll understand.

"For God so loved the world,that He gave His only Son,that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life".

What happened to Begotten? You see there's no problem with your verse because according to the bible, we are all sons of God. But your quotation is from ESV or non-KJV bible because KJV states (the most widely used bible):

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " KJV 3:16

Beget/sire/procreate is an animal/human act. We produce offsprings, generations etc by begetting. What you christians are trying to say is God begot a son. He had sex, intercourse with mary and from that act Jesus is born. And thats what i'm trying to point out all this time. Beget. Beget. Beget. Beget. its not Godly but ungodly act.

“Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be" and it is.”
Chapter 19, Verses 34-35

“This similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam: He created him from dust then said to him: "Be" and he was.”
Chapter 3, Verse 59

Ezekiel (18:20) reads:

“The soul who sins is the one who will die. the son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.”

Can Christians please share their views regarding the concept of original sin. I and certainly most Muslims/atheist find it contradicting if not confusing. The Story of Adam is narrated in the Holy Quran as follows:

115. And indeed We made a covenant with Adam before, but he forgot, and We found on his part no firm will-power.

116. And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." They prostrated (all) except Iblîs* (Satan), who refused.

117. Then We said: "O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to you and to your wife. So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you be distressed in misery.

118. Verily, you have (a promise from Us) that you will never be hungry therein nor naked.

119. And you (will) suffer not from thirst therein nor from the sun's heat.

120. Then Shaitân (Satan) whispered to him, saying : "O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that will never waste away? (live forever)"

121. Then they both ate of the tree, and so their private parts appeared to them, and they began to stick on themselves the leaves from Paradise for their covering. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.

122. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.

123. (Allâh) said:"Get you down (from the Paradise to the earth), both of you, together, some of you are an enemy to some others. Then if there comes to you guidance from Me, then whoever follows My Guidance shall neither go astray, nor fall into distress and misery.


Just as we forgot on many occasions to do certain things that are mandatory, so did Adam peace be upon him. He forgot what he was commanded not to do. Muslims believe that if anyone does anything out of forgetfullness, God forgives that person hence Adam pbuh was forgiven but got himself expelled from heaven.

I would like to hear a christians version of the story please.

No Is Allah biased by making his last prophet the Prophet Mohammed(SAW) Male and not female according to your beliefs?

Again you are missing the point. What i'm trying to put across is the parental relationship, the sonship attributed to God. If you're attributing sonship to him, how come he doesnt have a daughter? If we start putting God in the same category as us humans/animals (begets, look in the dictionary and understand the meaning of this word) then The just God the loving God, the Unbiased God should have a daughter too.

That the level of reasoning i'm forced to come as a muslim who wants to understand Christianity. But as a Christian or even Muslim who wants to understand islam, i can ask such questions and get instant answers. If i sum up all this to one simple, clear question, i would say "Does God Beget?". and christians will have a hard time explain that to me using the bible as a reference. For a muslim, the answer is there;

Chapter 112 of the Quran States.

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

A perfect God. He neither gets tired nor slumbers. Doesn't need our help, or the Angels. HE is Superb, Mercifuly, Just, Forgiving, Loving, the mighty the wise, the provider, the incomparable, the self sufficient.....etc. Such is God's Status in Islam. Perfect.

kismat long time, where have you been? Well nice to have you back. As per your comments on the gender equality, funny to say that never crossed my mind. Why do you want to make that an issue? In the Quar'an, did Allah make Adam  Or Eve first? Does that make Him biased? If you say christians are at the fore front of gender equality yet our God is biased, i guess thats your unfortunate opinion. But really how does that affect or concern you? And how does that imply that Prophet Mohammed (SAW) is in the BIBLE? You really don't have to post if you've got nothing reasonable to contribute to the topic discussed and i mean no offence by that.

Yes God has many sons. I am one of them, so is goodguy,prettyH,donnie and co, SO? It still doesnt change the fact that The Lord Jesus is the ONLY begotten son of God!

Its good to be back. I've been doing some travelling taking a break from work. Back to my previous point. The reason why i've stated the biasness is because we all believe God loves us all regardless of faith, color, status, wealth, gender etc. The point you've stated (making of Adam and eve) clearly shows this. Its not who was created first or last, but they were both created and will be judged equally. The christians believe that Jesus is the ONLY begotten son of God. So why Son and not a daughter? If he can have a son, why not have a daughter? You call God just, loving, caring etc and want to visualise/associate him with sonship right? Then wouldnt it be right to say that if He possess these qualities, he ought to have a daughter too? Or to make it simple, why did He Choose a Son only?

I guess my logic is too deep for you hence you get lost and miss the point.

Jesus said, if you love me you will keep my commandments, if they recognize him then they will keep his words and statutes...........Jesus as rightly said is not a prophet, he is the son of God there is a palpable difference between the two

Then it would be right to say if Jesus is the son of God, then your God preferes begetting male rather than female! Why does he choose to have a son and not a daughter? You christians are at the forefront of gender equality yet your God is gender bias!

Secondly, the word son is used in the bible metaphorically. Just as G.Washington is said to be the father of the nation, or M. Ghandi is said to be the father of India, doesnt mean they are literally the fathers of all americans or indians.

Thirdly, if you claim that "son of God" in the bible literally means what it says, then God has many sons as the following verses in the bible state;

"...Adam, which was the son of God."(Luke 3:38)

"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair... And when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them..." (Genesis 6: 2,4)

"...Israel is[b] My son, even [/b] My firstborn:" (Exodus 4:22)

"...for I (God) am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn." (Jeremiah 31:9)

"...the Lord hath said unto me (David): 'Thou art My son: this day have I begotten thee." (Psalms 2:7)

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons[b] of God[/b]." (Romans 18:14)

See the truth has already set me free. I know otherwise so checking the site will make no difference.

Is this what your bible tells you "Read no more for the bible has the truth and nothing but the truth"? Im sure a reasonable christian is ashamed to be associated with such a remark

Former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist Church. He holds a Master's degree in Divinity from Harvard University and a Doctorate in Psychology from the University of Denver. Author of The Cross and the Crescent: An Interfaith Dialogue between Christianity and Islam (ISBN 1-59008-002-5 - Amana Publications, 2001). He has published over 60 articles in the field of clinical psychology, and over 150 articles on Arabian horses

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/article.php?articleid=241

The following link lists priests from around the world who have also converted to Islam.

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/xfsection/index.php?category=1

Alheri,

What you've stated about Jesus also happened to Muhammed pbu them. Muhummed as a young boy was travelling to roman syria and on his way he met a christian monk who after seeing the stones prostrating to muhummed and tree leaves moving to where he was seated to provide him with shade, he asked his uncle to take the young boy back to Mecca because the romans in syria will kill him. His uncle listened to the monk and immediately headed back to mecca. Few days later, about 7 to 10 romans arrived at the city where the monk lived and asked him if he had heard/seen the awaited one because they expected someone to come as a messenger around that time.

As you rightly pointed out, you and many christians know little about Islam which i can only hope that you'll get to learn and share with us your findings.

@layi,

It would be nice to understand what made you become a christian. Does reading the bible or/and the concept of trinity make you understand God better than reading the Quran?

Kenya, The way of thinking your friends seem to possess is that of what we call Jahil.

Look at Indonesia, a country that has never been colonised is now the world's most populace country. Did you think they would converted because of the “sword” or muslims had the sort of attitude your friends seem to possess? No. Same can be said of China, north african, east african etc. It was the muslims way of living, self conduct, attitude, behaviour, respect, honesty and most importantly devoting to worshiping only one true God that spread islam east to west and continues to do so. The chrisitains believe in salvation as much as we believe in one true God, hence you cant do anything but explain to them the concept of one God whilst maintaining a good relationship. Like nuru rightly pointed out, as long as they are friendly and treat you justly, you have no reason to have any hatred and talk back angrily.

well said nuru. In Islam, Not even muslims are assured of going to heaven.

"But how (will they fare) when we gather them together against a day about which there is no doubt, and each soul will be paid out just what it has earned, without (favour or) injustice? " 3:25


“Everyman’s fate we have fastened on his own neck. On the Day of Judgment we shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open. Read thine record sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee”. (17:13-14).

"We shall set up scales of justice for the Day of Judgement, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least, and if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account." 21:47

"And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! It leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" They will find all that they did, placed before them: And not one will thy Lord treat with injustice. "18:49



As for not believing in Jesus as a messiah, well, that comment purely comes from ignorance. We do believe in Jesus (born miracusily, healed the born blind, leapers and gave life to the dead by God's permission).


"And[b] those who believe and do good deeds[/b], they are dwellers of Paradise, they dwell therein forever." (Quran, 2:82)

It doesnt say Muslims, but only those who believe (in one God) and do good deeds (fast, give charity and pray) will dwell in paradise. May God make us among them.

"And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." 2:111 - 112

@kismat, there are countless instances of where God has spoken to people. Mere reading of my Bible alone means God is passing a message across to me. You sound as if we (humans) know it all so there's no need for God to tell us anything new again.

Do you believe in God at all?

I like ryder's reasoning. and i've done that (thought about the question) and my answer is still the same. I hope you mean Metaphorically God is talking to you when you're reading the holy book.

God doesnt need to talk to you. He talked to Moses, Jesus, Abraham etc. If he can talk to you, then why send them? Saying God talks to us basically makes the jobs of prophets obsolete and no-brainer.

This concept of saying God talks to me etc only makes a religion more exclusive and renders the chances of people believing in it. Take for example timothy McVeigh, Ok'homa bomber. He is a devoted christian (still reading the bible everyday in prison) and he claims that God talked to him. Get my point?

Increase your knowledge and you'll know what God expects you to do. And what better way to start than hear a religion (Islam) asking you to:

1. Declare there is only one God
2. Give charity
3. Pray
4. Fast

How simple can it get?