₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
When will you ever learn the Talmud is not a part of the Bible or even the gospels to start with?

Just swallow your L peacefully.

Ok, Talmud is not part of the Bible.
Is it a religious text? If so, it’s not allowable in the discussion.

OkCornel:
KnownUnknown, Talmud is not part of the Bible. I can’t believe the gaffe I just read.

Must be the end of the world. Talmud, Torah, gospels, old and New Testament. Just provide sources outside of religious texts which you had no problem doing with Josephus and co.

OkCornel:
Accept your L bros. You asked for sources outside the gospel. See screenshot of your own words below.

You can’t shift the goalpost in the middle of the game.

Unless you want to tell us Talmud is now part of the gospels.

Don’t embarrass yourself outside please. Talmud is not part of the Bible.

What is the prize you get for your perceived W?

Okay, I reject the Talmud and discussions of the Talmud as religious texts that don’t provide historicity or prove anything.

Give a source outside your gospels and other related religious texts of the earthquake that happened after Pilate allegedly had the dude executed.

Hell, give a source outside the Bible (torah, Talmud, gospels, etc) about Herod ordering infanticide. At least we can use that to confirm a claim made in the gospels.

OkCornel:
Nope, you’ve shifted the goalpost. Now you’re conflating the Talmud with the gospels.

You asked for sources outside the gospel. You can’t change the goalpost in the middle of the game.

Accept your L.

Is the Talmud a religious text or not?
What is being discussed in the Talmud other than the claims made in the gospels?


Give a source outside your gospels and other related religious texts of the earthquake that happened after Pilate allegedly had the dude executed.

Hell, give a source outside the Bible (torah, Talmud, gospels, etc) about Herod ordering infanticide. At least we can use that to confirm a claim made in the gospels.

The Talmud discussion talks about Joshua Ben Perachjah. Is that supposed to be your Jesus?

OkCornel:
Nope, you’ve shifted the goalpost.
The Talmud is not the gospel. You clearly mentioned gospel. The Talmud is not the Bible.

Hold your *L*

The Talmud is a religious text, same as the gospels. Or do I need to start spelling out all the religious texts you can’t use. Should I mention the Quran too?

OkCornel:
You don’t read, and it’s quite irritating spoon feeding you at this point.

Did you gloss over this part of the screenshot I’ve now underlined for you?

Is the Talmud a religious text or not?

The claim in your screenshot require more evidence than what the two rabbis discussed!
I don’t care if Jewish sages think the supernatural is real or their claims about some dude named Jacob.

Give a source outside your gospels of the earthquake that happened after Pilate allegedly had the dude executed.

Hell, give a source outside the Bible about Herod ordering infanticide. At least we can use that to confirm a claim made in the gospels.

OkCornel:
What other exploits outside the gospel are you looking for?

Exploits of Jesus taking a dump in the pit lantrine?

You don’t know what you are looking for. So I’ll just watch as you keep entertaining me

If you have one of him taking a dump, present it. You had no problems citing the claims of execution in Tacitus.
E.g. the hullabaloo that happened when he went into Jerusalem on a donkey. Do you have a source for something like that apart from the gospels?
If not, just say so instead of telling us about Jewish sages.
If you don’t have anything apart from the disputed Josephus, Tacitus, and Seutonius, just say so.

OkCornel:
You really need help.

In one instance, you asked for extra biblical sources of Jesus’ exploits.

You’re now provided with screenshots of them, then you don’t care about the screenshots.

Isn’t that comedy?

You didn’t provide anything dude!!
Cite the source of your jewish sages if it’s not the same gospels.
The comedy is your inability to provide anything without referring to the gospels while pretending that the historicity of the gospels is not what you’re claiming.

OkCornel:
Jewish sages who hated him, but could not deny his miracles and called it magic.

Yeah right…

Jewish “sages” calling his actions in the gospels magic doesn’t prove anything. Are they talking about anything other than the gospels?

Jewish “sages” call it magic, I call it myth and I am also a “sage”.

OkCornel:
Did you read those screenshots at all before replying?

I don’t care about your screenshots. These people believing something doesn’t make it true.
A Jewish rabbi claiming Moses existed and did all those implausible things is not believable.
Claims are judged on their merit not because of the non existent authority of some “Jewish rabbi”.

Unlike Jewphiles like Sonmvayina and Mindhacker, the “Jewish rabbi” is smart enough not to refute the existence of Jesus or claim his miracles did not happen because he knows doing such will invite the same criticism of his own beliefs.

If he says Jesus didn’t do this or that, then the question become, what about Moses and the “prophets”?
Bullshit provides the Jewish rabbi’s daily bread not HaShem. So bullshit will be supported.

OkCornel:
Exploits will prove existence? Lol.

According to your logic, people who never showed any exploits within that same timeframe Jesus Christ lived also never existed.

If you want exploits, go and discuss with the Jewish rabbis, Christians and Muslims on that.

By the way, Jewish rabbis that hated him have this to say about his exploits (screenshot below). His miracles were acclaimed to be magic and sorcery. Not fraud or gimmicks

Were they referring to actions outside the gospels?
I already said religious authority relying on religious texts are not relevant. Unless, these “sages” are using actual sources, their opinion about the events that occurred in myths are irrelevant.

You wouldn’t believe Arab “sages” just because they claim Mohammed met an angel in cave.

OkCornel:
Exploits will prove existence? Lol.

According to your logic, people who never showed any exploits within that same timeframe Jesus Christ lived also never existed.

If we were talking about any of those people in the alleged timeframe, we would ask facts about them including any exploits of theirs that can serve as evidence for their alleged existence.

You just spoke about the alleged exploit of Pilate as evidence of your guy but all of a sudden, exploits can’t prove existence.

According to my logic and every reasonable person’s, if I claim Susej existed, it’s up to me to provide evidence that will include exploits.

OkCornel:
Are we talking about existence? Or exploits…

Exploits will prove existence.
All we have is that some guy named Yeshua was amongst the people executed under the orders of a man named Pilate.
So what?

OkCornel:
Still grasping hard at straws I see…

Josephus clearly mentioned Jesus Christ is the brother of James.

How exactly does that even contradict the gospel?

Or are you privy of any evidence from Josephus that states Jesus Christ is the younger brother of James?

Drum harder on the deflection. Still awaiting intelligent questions.

We have already agreed to let the historical Jesus stand. Josephus, Tacitus, Seutonius.

The question has to do with historical facts about this Jesus outside of those sources.

What did this historical Jesus do apart from get executed?

OkCornel:
Kindly show me where I referred to the gospel rather than Tacitus or Josephus.

Let me guess, Tacitus and Josephus are now part of the gospels too?

Arguing whether James is the older or younger brother of Jesus Christ has no bearing whatsoever on the existence of Jesus Christ. Just another ploy to deflect from the main subject of discuss.

Not an intelligent question for anyone who really wants to know whether Jesus Christ existed or not.

Same tactic was deployed to discuss about “superstition” rather than the condemnation of Jesus to death by Pontius Pilate.

Again, I’m still awaiting intelligent questions challenging the existence of Jesus Christ.

Where did you get the “younger brother” claim if not from the gospels?
It obviously isn’t Josephus!
How do you support the Pilate claim without referring to the gospels?

We are still waiting historical facts that don’t refer to the gospels to support this Jesus.

I have also allowed the Pilate claim to make this easier for you.

So what else you got that doesn’t refer back to the myth or the gospels?

I bet the “scholars”, ancient or otherwise,you keep citing have some evidence for their claim apart from faith. Quote the evidence from one their works if you must.

OkCornel:
You’re arguing over a done and dusted issue.
1. Everyone with a functioning grey matter in their skull and versed with Jewish history knows Jesus Christ was the first born of his siblings.

2. Thorough research has been done, and your arguments on interpolation has been debunked.

Make it worth my time asking me intelligent questions.

How do you know Jesus was the first born of his siblings apart from the myth?

What are evidence unearthed by this research?

I already asked you to show facts about this Jesus existence without the gospels and you have been unable to do that. You tried Josephus but you had to refer to the gospels, same as Tacitus.

Okay, let’s say Pilate executed a guy named Yeshua who had a brother (younger or older) named James.

What else?

Your source say “This reference is said to be more authentic that the Testimonium”! Does that mean one of this “evidence” is a forgery?
If one is a forgery why not the other?

OkCornel:
Jesus was the first born of his siblings. I’m sorry, but your questions are boring me. It’s not intellectually stimulating or challenging at all.

How do you know Jesus was the first born of his siblings?

It should be stimulating. This is how you do research and tell fact from fiction.)

OkCornel:
Add up the pieces. How many Jesus (popular preacher) whose brother was James did Pontius Pilate condemn to death?

So, are you now referring to the same gospels as historical? If Josephus had really written that passage, wouldn’t he have expounded on “Christ”?

This supports the fact that they are interpolations. You are trying to refer to the gospels to make sense of Josephus because they are forgeries that can only make sense if one knows the myth.

You don’t have enough pieces to add up yet.

You were supposed to provide facts and you are already referring to the gospels to support the “younger brother”.

OkCornel:
Oh my goodness...so Josephus needed faith to affirm the existence of Jesus Christ?

Read the screenshot slowly. See the part where it was mentioned "and brought before them the brother of Jesus who was called Christ, whose name was James"

Now you read it slowly and show me “younger brother”. Did this James have a family name?

OkCornel:
He was Jesus' younger brother

Is that too difficult to comprehend?

Are you expecting a video recording of Jesus and his brother James before you accept they existed?

OkCornel:
Did Pontius Pilate execute Jesus Christ?

If Jesus means Yeshua, the Romans probably executed a few of them.
I haven’t seen any record of Pontius Pilates executions so I don’t know who he had executed.

Who is Jesus Christ? Are those first and last names?

OkCornel:
He was Jesus' younger brother

Is that too difficult to comprehend?

Are you expecting a video recording of Jesus and his brother James before you accept they existed?

if there was video you wouldn’t need “faith”.

Anyway, where in Josephus is James referred to as the “younger” brother?

OkCornel:
Besides, the cogent question one who is really looking for proof to ask for is...

Did Pontius Pilate execute Jesus Christ?

The questions on superstition is nothing but pure deflection on the argument whether Jesus Christ existed or not.

Pontius Pilate cannot crucify a ghost.

We are trying to establish his existence. The question of superstition is not deflection when it’s one of the claims of your source.

OkCornel:
Jesus (not Serapis) was executed by Pontius Pilate as corroborated by Tacitus, still is not evidence for his existence? Was a ghost executed and crucified?

I can't believe you're asking some questions. Latin and Greek were the most popular languages in the Roman Empire.
Tacitus wrote this historic account in Latin.
Christus is a latin word. Jesus is not a Jewish word. Yeshua or Yehoshua is the word you are looking for if it's hebrew you're concerned with.
Asking if Jesus Chrestus is a Hebrew word is a laughable question to be honest.

Now, read...where Tacitus wrote the belief in Jesus originated from Judea?

How is it laughable? Is the Christ concept a jewish concept?

So Tacitus wrote that a superstition about a Chrestus arose in Judea. How is that proof of Jesus?

Are you saying that there were people named Yeshua executed by Pilate and that a superstition arose about of one them?

OkCornel:
The Chrestus referred to by Tacitus is obviously Jesus.

His followers were blamed and persecuted for the great fire of Rome.

1. Serapis did not originate from Judea.
2. Serapis was not executed by Pontius Pilate.

Okay. Still no evidence of Jesus. The most we have now is that followers of a Chrestus existed and allegedly started a fire.

Do you have any evidence of a Jesus Chrestus from Judea? Is Chrestus a Hebrew word?

Why did Tacitus refer to this superstition as something evil, hideous, and shameful?
And why do you think that refers to Jesus?

OkCornel:
Claims of interpolation is dead on arrival.

Still, you haven’t presented any facts about Jesus yet. So a guy named James was stoned to death, what does have have to do with historical Jesus?

OkCornel:
His brother James, was the leader of the Jerusalem church, and was stoned to death.

See screenshot from Antiquity of the Jews written by first century historian - Josephus Flavius.

Without Josephus please. James could well have been the brother of one of the numerous Jesus’ in Josephus’ work.

The interpolation in the passage you presented is “who was called Christ”.
Did Josephus call this James the “leader of the Jerusalem church”?
How come Josephus did not expound on the phrase “who was called Christ”? Because the forger expected the readers to know “Christ”. If one is not aware of the gospel then Josephus clearly did not write enough for us to know what a Christ is.

Like I said above, that statement about James and Jesus only makes sense if one already knows the gospel.

OkCornel:
Smh, the dude ended up saying nothing useful in the end.

1. Can’t provide evidences of Jewish historians and scholars unanimously denying the existence of Jesus Christ.

2. Evidences of Jewish historians and scholars attesting to the existence of Jesus Christ was dismissed by the same clown as people with “Christian sympathies”

3. Even J.D. Crossman he was trying to use as his point to deny the existence of Jesus Christ actually affirms his existence.

A hardened fool will remain what he is. A hardened fool.

Okay, let’s start from your premise that “jewish historians and scholars” do not “deny the existence of Jesus”

Without referring to the gospels, What are the facts about this “historical” person?

Forget Tacitus and Seutonius because they didn’t mention Jesus. “Chrestus” may well have been Serapis.

Josephus’ alleged statement only makes sense if one already knows the gospel, which support the claims of them being interpolations.

So without the three gentlemen and the gospels, what are the facts?

“Deny the existence” of xyz

https://www.qcc.cuny.edu/socialsciences/ppecorino/phil_of_religion_text/CHAPTER_5_ARGUMENTS_EXPERIENCE/Burden-of-Proof.htm

Most people as young children appear to have a “commonsense” understanding of the burden of proof. When young people hear a claim being made and it is, in their minds and experience, an extraordinary claim being made, quite often the response is one of asking for something to support the claim. The most common retorts are along the line of “Prove it”, “What makes you say that”, “Sow me” or something like “Oh, yeah?”. Somewhere along the way too many humans lose that sense and too often suspend their inclination to accept the principles underlying the “Burden of Proof”. Going a bit further it is to be noted that not all people care to be considered as being rational or reasonable or willing to use their intellect as best as possible but for any person who cares at all about being rational and using reason then operating with the "Burden of Proof" rule of reason:

You cannot claim that "miracles exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."

You cannot claim that "souls exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."

You cannot claim that "angels exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."

You cannot claim that "deities exist unless someone proves that they do not exist."

OkCornel:
Did J.D. Crossan deny the existence of Jesus Christ? Yes or No.

You ended up shooting your self in the foot trying to make a phantom point

Did J.D. Crossman confr the existence of a Jesus Christ? Yes or No.

“Deny the existence” is not how it works.

OkCornel:
“Adopting the language of white racists”

Chief olodo, you missed my point. Why bother chatting me with the language of “white racists” to pass home your point?

You disgust me. Spits!

You are no different from the people you label as racists.

Phyllis Wheatley syndrome having slowpoke. You are the definition of disgusting.

OkCornel:
Did J.D. Crossan deny the existence of Jesus Christ?

Morons plenty for this platform walahi

Did J. D. Crossan do more than those he considered academic embarrassments? No


Did he proof that there is a historical Jesus? No

A Christian call a person a slowpoke is like being stabbed by a blunt object.

OkCornel:
Oh wait let me guess, you’re chatting me with your indigenous language right?

Mehn, you’ve typed nothing but undiluted gibberish up there.

Entertain me some more. It’s exciting to see fools getting emotional

A very predictable outcome. You’re too easy

Christ fucking Jesus, you are really simple minded!!!!

Are you that stupid that you can’t tell that the word “Woke” is the “language” in question?!!!!
Why would you think I mean the English language?!

I see the depth of your stupidity now…..