₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Iyke-D link=topic=67000.msg1316999#msg1316999 date=1185203916]na NLC and NNPC - within the past 60 days, both organizations have been
flooded with competent, dedicated, and patriotic management and staff - at
least the speed with which the two organizations performed due diligence
and re-appraised the true value of the refineries should give you a hint! So
you didn't know all you needed to run a refinery was spare parts(which was
thrown in as jara to BueStar Consortium to begin with)? [/quote]Stop being sarcastic. Since when has NNPC been given a free hand to run the refineries or the oil sector, the way it should be done?? If those at the head of govt. are not interfering with the TAM or refusing to approve funding for it to be done, they are busy awarding the contract for TAM to their cronies in crime, instead of those who know the job. Ever heard of Emeka Ofor and the multi-million naira TAM contract, that was not done? Abeg, don't let us open a can of worms.

Omo Eko:
What a thread

Seun needs to start deleting this type of threads, because it makes no sense

Why should Seun delete it? It helps to expose the ignorance and infantile primitive junk, that exist in some people's minds. . .

Esoterik:
I speak igbo, married an igbo man, have a beautiful igbo daughter and am a member of the Ibeku society here in the UK.  My parents did a fantastic job of teaching me my heritage, so you going to have to come up with something a little sharper than that sweetie!!

Your parents did a fantastic job, jare! Don't let folks like Donzman put you down.  He has a huge inferiority complex, that is why he tries to act all superior and pretend as if he is the mouth-piece of all Nd'Igbo on Nairaland. No mind am!

tpia:
And  I dare you to go take an OBJECTIVE DNA test- the results will surprise you. When Nigeria gets a comprehensive and reliable DNA testing procedure, I can guarantee that most of you pufferfish will find out some of your genes will indicate some other AFRICAN ancestry than what you think you know.

Hehehehe. . . . .can you imagine what would happen if Donzman took a DNA test, only to discover that Yoruba, Fulani or Ijaw etc. blood runs through his veins? Kai! The mind boggles. . . .

babyosisi:
you are just one inconsequential person as far as I'm concerned.
I won't dignify you with a better response.
shoo fly don't bother me

Yeah. . . . .you cannot respond, because you cannot put up a truthful or factual defence. If you like, keep shouting that you are not a tribalist, till kingdom come. Don't worry, we know you for what you are.  The facts, speak for themselves.

denex:
them never born the policeman or soldier wey go slap me. I was less than 17 when I became ready to die so I won't mind taking an escort to hell.

Hehehehehe. . . . .oya, come for Dodan Barracks!

ono:
Men, all these ones na upper-cut deadly blows.

Ono, this is not a fight and there are no upper-cut blows coming from anywhere. But I just feel that we should distinguish between facts & propaganda. How Ugwumba (who I have a great deal of respect for), can now say the Yoruba were cowards, simply because one of them (i.e.Ogundipe) chose to leave the army, for reasons best known to him, especially when he did not consult them before taking his appointment, just beats me hollow. There were a lot of things that went on behind the scenes, before Ogundipe threw in the towel.

Read this: http://www.citizensfornigeria.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=45

Take note of the part where the writer states:

About this time, first Major Johnson and then Brigadier Ogundipe himself gave an order to a northern NCO deployed to the Federal Guards Company. The soldier blatantly said he would not take orders from the Brigadier unless approved by Captain JN Garba. So, Captain Garba was sent for and came to the Police HQ. He was initially interrogated by Lt. Col. Anwunah, searching for information about what was happening in the country. Garba then aggressively confronted Anwunah with the grievances of northern soldiers and why they had struck.When Anwunah reported Garba's intransigence to Ogundipe, Ogundipe told Garba: "I wish you boys had waited.I have just received the report about the January coup this morning and it's on my table right now.Try to talk to your friends in Ikeja, and I am sure we can settle this matter, even at this stage." . . . . . .

At about 3pm, though, Ogundipe sent for Garba again and instructed him to contribute a platoon to a second assault force which he was sending to dislodge the boys at Ikeja.Garba notified Muhammed at Ikeja and then contributed a platoon to Ogundipe under one 2/Lt. Osuma (then known as "Usman" with separate orders that should he be ordered to shoot at fellow soldiers he was to refuse and return to base.2/Lt. "Usman" did exactly as he was told before subsequently escaping from Lagos on August 1st himself. When he got back to the east, he used his real name (Osuma) to request that his property be sent back to him there. Needless to say that Ogundipe's second attempt to establish military supremacy had failed. 
Meanwhile phone calls and signals were coming in from other parts of the country, including Enugu (from Lt. Col. C. Ojukwu, the governor). At one point Ojukwu was able to speak to Lt. Col. Gowon at Ikeja.It is said that Gowon told him that he was no longer a "free agent". Ojukwu encouraged Ogundipe to keep fighting even though he himself at one point escaped from Enugu to Onitsha from where he was calling Ogundipe. The rebels later made Brigadier Ogundipe aware that they would only accept Captain JN Garba as his intermediary for negotiations. . Meanwhile, angry about the phone calls from Ojukwu,Lt. Col. Muhammed began making plans to march on Enugu - from which he was eventually restrained.

Ogundipe did not come out at any point in time, to deny the facts stated above. The truth was that he had lost control of the soldiers under his command, who were mostly from the northern region. So what was he expected to do? Hold a gun to the heads of several northern officers, and command them to follow his lead? He was only one man, for crying out loud. The spate of events that had taken place prior to the July 1966 coup, made the northern officers suspicious of army officers from other tribes, and they were therefore, reluctant to take orders from those who did not share their own ethnic background.

On a final note, when talking about the unflattering opinion most Nd'Igbo hold about their southern neighbours, it is well known among all & sundry, no matter how many times they try to deny it. History is there, to bear witness.

Ugwumba:
Reading through this thread, there are so many farcical statements that one does not know where to start - I can only assume that either the posters did not live through the civil war, or the history of the war they read are from 'comic' strips.

1. Anyone who believes the civil war was fought by the then Biafra for oil, needs his/her head examined for delusional problems.

2. Mistakes were made by all 3 'major' (hate this word), Nigerian tribes - the Igbos, through the inaction of Ironsi after the failure of the coup (thereby helping to cement the accusation of an Igbo attempt at taking over Nigeria), the Yorubas for allowing Brigadier Ogundipe to accede command (cowardice in the face of a National crisis - they made up for this later with the MKO Abiola fight) and most of all the Hausa/Fulani for the pogroms against Southerners. By far, the[b] greater of the crimes is the latter.[/b] All others were political crimes, the pogrom was a crime against humanity.

Hmmn. . . . . .true, mistakes were made by all the three major ethnic groups, but I fail to see why you claim the Yorubas should have prevented Brigadier Ogundipe from acceding command to a junior Colonel like Gowon. Ogundipe, was a career military man. The Yoruba people did not assist him to get into the army, neither did he get his position on the basis of their votes. The man made a career decision to quit the army, instead of insisting on taking command. How does this decision by one man, qualify a whole ethnic group to be tagged as[i] cowards[/i]?? I don't get it o! Did he ask the Yoruba to come to his rescue when he was bypassed in favour of Gowon, and they refused? Afterall, Adekunle Fajuyi volunteered to go with Ironsi when he was arrested. The decision cost him his life. Does his own action strike you as the act of a coward?

Secondly, if Ironsi had court-martialled the 5 majors immediately after the coup occurred, would the whole story have turned out differently?

Ugwumba:
3. It is amusing that the Southern minority tribes do not realize that the Hausa/ Fulani killed many of their people in these pogroms, as they were all grouped as 'nyamiri' - a corruption of the Igbo term for 'give me water'. But blaming the Igbos for this has of course become a national pastime.

The Southern minorities realise that many of their kith & kin were killed in the 1966 progroms. But instead of blaming all other ethnic groups, they have resolved to take their case to God, try & put the past behind them and move on with their lives, the best way they can. As for them blaming the Igbo, nah. . . .it is actually the other way round.

Ugwumba:
4. Igbo leaders, however, have not done themselves any favours with their neighbours by their attitudes towards them - starting from Zik's removal of Professor Eyo Ita, to mockery of their lifestyles and to attempts to dominate.

True!!   For the first time, someone has clearly identified some of the issues that caused tension between the southern minorities & their Igbo neighbours.

Ugwumba:
5. Some southern minority leaders have come to realize that they have simply substituted the feared igbo hegemony with slavery to the Hausa/Fulani, where the bulk of the oil wealth has been spent.

6. The Igbo have only enjoyed the Niger-Delta wealth, as part of federal allocation policies, and have been in the forefront of the struggle for resource control. Ohaneze has consistently supported the call for much higher derivation percentages - further buttressing the fact that the Igbo never had and still have no quarrel with the oil wealth of the Niger-Delta.

PS - lest I forget, oil was discovered in many parts of of present Imo and Abia states by 1966.

Yeah. . . . .Ohaneze started asking for higher derivation revenue, after oil was discovered in Imo & Abia states. Before the discovery, they didn't make this demand.

Southern minority leaders did not realize that they "simply substituted the feared igbo hegemony with slavery to the Hausa/Fulani, where the bulk of the oil wealth has been spent" to use your own words. The southern minourities and their leaders merely want to have a say, in the way the oil revenue from the resources in their districts is being spent, and they are tired of living by the river (i.e. oil) and washing their hands with the spittle! If the oil wealth is being used to develop other parts of Nigeria, it should also be used to develop their own area, where the oil wells are located. Period. The issue is not about 'slavery' or 'hegemony'. It goes way beyond that!!

babyosisi:
The same marginalisation Igbos feel in the Nigerian politics is also visited on the average Efik man.
I do not regard myself a tribalist and will not treat people differently because of ethnic origin but when we have characters like ono and his caddy mohada AKA okoroamadi cajoling and ridiculing a whole race of great people,they ought to be put in their rightful places.

Yet, each time you see "people like mohada AKA okoroamadi cajoling and ridiculing a whole race of great people," you do not put them alone in their "rightful places," you use the opportunity to unleash vicious verbal (or should we say, written) attacks on their people, tribe and region, as well.

We know you for what you are, babyosisi. It doesn't matter how many speeches you make.

McKren:
I will not go into any kind of argument with you because the Igbos did not and have never known truer friends and allies than the Efiks and Ibibios.

So why do a lot of Igbo people keep looking down on them?

Dis Guy:
No one said it was compulsory. and did you say it was dying out?

Yup!

Dis Guy:
Are you laughing because I'm Fulani or because i asked for fura dey nu nu better tell me before i get me boxing gloves

Boxing gloves, ke?? I beg, I no sabi fight o! Am laughing because I know you are not Fulani, ki nji ko?

And why are you asking Uche2nna for his name?

Uche2nna:
Su nana Adamu me suya aka Ibrahim mee tusa

Uche2nna, na wa for you o!

debosky:
laudate its true that they work in other countries, but this government that cannot provide water should hold the whole economy to ransom again? They tried to run them for 8 years and failed, why should they still be in government hands??

I don't care if Dangote 'owns' everything as some people claim, who is stopping you from importing your sugar or making your rice?

The inefficiencies must not be carried forward, and all this issue of 'undervaluing' smacks of a poor understanding of cost vs value, here is an interesting article

@Debosky, I understand your concerns but we have failed to ask the relevant questions. What expertise or track record do Dangote & co. have in running or maintaining an oil refinery?

Oil is critical to our economy, and everyone needs to be interested in how it is managed. A 1 or 2 percent increase in the price of fuel, triggers off a 50 per cent increase, in the prices of goods & services nationwide, because our entire transportation system depends heavily on the constant and affordable supply of petroleum products. Why didn't we sell the refineries to companies that actually had technical expertise & core competencies in managing a refinery? Isn't Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) what we have been clamouring for? Refining capacity has fallen in other parts of the world.

Kindly read this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4296812.stm

So why didn't we call those who have the expertise to put things right, to buy, manage or run the refineries? No, we decided to sell it off to those who knew zero about the way a refinery works. Yet, we want to make progress. Kindly recall what happened when African Petroleum (AP) was sold to Sadiq Oil, instead of British Petroleum (BP), which had expressed an earlier interest in buying it. Sadiq went up and down after the sale, claiming that the liabilities of AP were under-stated. At the end of the day, they sold off AP again, without adding value to the business.

Forgive the digression. Let's go back to the topic.

The refineries worked until a certain point in time, when those in power decided to ignore the TAM programme for a couple of years. By the time, they woke up to put things in place, what did they do? They awarded the TAM contract, to those who knew next-to-nothing about it, instead of the original builders of the refineries. What happened next? We all know the story.

The breakdown of refineries and lack of TAM – turn-around – maintenance between 96-98 under late General Abacha's regime may have reduced local processing of crude oil to about 75,000 bbls/day. Refineries-Warri and Port Harcourt presently operate at 30% capacity. Kaduna refinery is still out, due to unsuccessful TAM, awarded to Total International in 1998.

In august 1976, NNPC begun an offshore crude processing scheme designed to complement local refining and reduce frequent product outages – Contractor’s to NNPC were: Shell Caracao; BP-Total consortium, Socap (elf) Stinnes, Interoil, Petrograd (brazil) Total international (France and Bermuda-based Basic Resources Services Ltd.

In 1991, NNPC undertook N1 billion refinery rehabilitation programme (under Gen. Babangida's regime, with Professor Jibril Aminu as petroleum resources minister). NNPC also spends about N400 million per annum for TAM on the four refineries.

In the early 1990s – the NNPC also spent about N12 billion to upgrade part of existing petroleum products pipeline from 6" diameter to 12" (inch), and build a 3-phase pipeline system. It also spent N1 billion to revamp the Apapa Jetty, a strategic fuel loading point, and N1.5 billion on the expansion of the storage and handing capacity of the major fuel import receiving facility, the Atlas Cove Marine depot in Lagos.

Source:
http://www.nigeriabusinessinfo.com/nigerian-oil.htm

http://www.independentngonline.com/?c=82&a=29158

http://www.thisdayonline.com/archive/2001/06/07/20010607com02.html

Let us go back and find out where the rain started beating us. Selling off the refineries to Dangote & co. is not the answer.

If we must sell, let us do so to those who have the expertise & technical capability to turn things around, in a way that would promote the common good.

McKren:
Laudate

There is nothing like trying to defend the indefensible, the question is,

Is fishing the historical culture and means of livelihood of people of that region? yes it is.
If they are, is it wrong or derogatory to call them sons of fishermen ? no it is not.
Like ONO pointed out even his own grand-dad was a fisherman.
Is it derogatory to call someone son-of-fisherman or son-of-farmer, it is not in common knowledge to do so.


Are the children of fishermen of yesteryears carring guns now and kidnapping people? that is the fact, while that satement could be derogatory it is happening in our society everyday.

You Laudate did not counter that or accuse her of abusing the act of Kidnapping. You were claiming she is looking down on fishermen which the statement by babyosisi did not suggest.


For the records this is what she said

Am quite familiar with what she said, and I don't need another repetition. Thanks.  

I'm just at a loss as to why you have chosen to defend her without letting her clarify her points, when it is so obvious that she can speak for herself. Babyosisi has used the terms 'fishing' and 'son-of-a-fisherman' in the past, in several other posts on this forum, and each time it was done in a manner that reeked of condescension. No one ever took her up on those remarks, because it looked as if she was merely responding to issues that were provocative. But unfortunately, this pattern has become a part of her style.

Asking if: "Is fishing the historical culture and means of livelihood of people of that region? yes it is.
If they are, is it wrong or derogatory to call them sons of fishermen ? no it is not.
Like ONO pointed out even his own grand-dad was a fisherman. Is it derogatory to call someone son-of-fisherman or son-of-farmer, it is not in common knowledge to do so, " is like saying that Igbos control the fake drugs market which thrives in Onitsha. It may be true, but the intent is so obviously bad.

But then, you are free to see, whatever it is that you wish to see, and free to believe, whatever catches your fancy.

Going to the Fattening room is optional. It is NOT compulsory. It is a practice that is fast dying out. Am sure in the next five years, most people would have forgotten that such a thing existed.

@McKren,

Please stop trying to defend the indefensible. I know exactly what babyosisi meant, and it wasn't the slightest bit complimentary.

She has used the term in a derogatory manner on other threads. It was overlooked, because the person to whom she addressed her comments, at that time had stepped out of line.  

But now, it has become a favourite one-liner she keeps using to put down folks from the Niger-Delta, irrespective of their stand on any topic under discussion.

I don't blame you for seeing nothing wrong in her description, especially since she linked it with machine guns and kidnapping, in the same breath.

Dis Guy:
im fulani, wheres the fura dey nunu 

Are you serious I promised I wasn't going to laugh today, but you are making me break my promise! 

McKren:
Laudate

I don't think Babyosisi was looking down on fishermen, after all the former President of Nigeria is a farmer. She was only pointing out that the Children of Fishermen have left the legitimate bussiness of their fathers for Kidnapping for money.

Go read her comment again.

I have read her comment. And I still can't see anything different in it.  What does the fact that the former President of Nigeria is a farmer, have to do with her statement??

youngies:
Ofcourse they know Babayosisi wasn't talking down on fishermen, they just want to draw her out.

Oh?? Draw her out, for what reason?? Please go through that comment she made again, especially the bit referring to the "sons of fishermen " and you will see condescension dripping from her remarks.

watchung:
I couldn't agree more with those in support of selling off these wastes. When will people in Nigeria ever realize that the govt has no place in running businesses. Na wa oh!

How come in other countries, government-owned businesses thrive?

Without exaggeration, the most important foreign investment in the United States is the British Petroleum Company Ltd.'s Alaskan holdings involving the ownership of almost half of the Trans Alaska Pipeline and more than half of the oil in the rich Prudhoe Bay field containing upwards of 40 percent of the entire nation's proven oil reserves. And, the British government owns roughly 50 percent of British Petroleum.

https://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/The-British-Petroleum-Company-plc-Company-History.html

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF001975/Crowe/Crowe02/Crowe02.html

ono:
Well, for people like madam babyosisi, who loves looking down on fishermen, please look down on me o! My grandfather padlled canoe from my village all the way to Lagos in the early 70s, just after the Civil War. It was his fish trade that helped him all the way to Lagos, where he found shelter and set up a business to train my father. . . . .

I am the grandson of a fisherman, and am proud to be one.

May God bless all fishermen, dead or alive, who are earning a living through the honest business of fishing!!

Mandora:
Everyone involved in that war has their tragic tales. Let's see 40yrs as time 4 us to heal n stop flinging accusations back n forth it's 4 d best. Fact is d igbos r still marginalised but we shld begin 2 look ahead n make sure that we don't allow situations that can b controlled 2 escalate 2 wars

Well said!!!

Um, interesting! Do you speak Fulfude?

babyosisi:
The average Igboman now sees those famous pictures of the sons of fishermen with machine guns looking all crazy and wanting to kidnap anything that moves.
Let's see how the drama unfolds.
This time we'll watch from afar and supply food when needed.

What is wrong with being the son of a fisherman?? Fishing, is an honest endeavour. Please do not talk about fishing, in the same breath as kidnapping. We all know kidnapping is evil. No one is condoning it. Am only wondering why you had to link something as despicable as 'kidnapping,' with 'fishing.' Since when has it become a crime to be the "son of a fisherman??" 

denex:
When buying a new refinery you pitch an average price of $1,000/bpd.

So basically, the Kaduna Refinery should cost no more than 100,000bpd x $1,000 which will be $100,000,000.

The China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) knew full well that they could build a brand new, more modern refinery with the same capacity for less. So why would anybody pay $160,000,000 for that old piece of scrap? Because of National Pride and warehouses full of spare parts? Well, Chinese don't have Nigerian National Pride and they come with their own spare parts.

If it costs far less to build a brand new refinery, why did Dangote et al decide to pay more, for an existing one?? Or is he Father Donatus? Abeg, there is more to this deal than meets the eye.

denex:
$500,000,000 for a 300,000 bpd Refinery is totally outrageous. Abi na designer Refinery?

And the worst part is that they didn't even buy all the shares they bought 80%. I wish them luck sha.

They do not need luck. Dangote & Otedola are shrewd business men, who knew exactly what they were getting into, when they bidded for that refinery. I just keep wondering why everyone thinks that selling to the duo was a more altruistic move, than selling to other people with the technical capability to turn the refineries around. Dangote & Otedola are business men. Period. They are out to make money, not to lose it. Nothing stops them from selling off the petroleum products refined by these plants into the international market, and turning round to claim that they have nothing left to sell to the local market. Afterall, as the new owners they don't have to dance to anyone's tune.

Go to Otedola's Zenon depot, and see if he will sell refined automotive gas oil to you at a discount, simply because he likes your face, or because you are a fellow Naija man.

MILITIA:
They have never worked and Dangote and Odetola will not make the difference! So let the refineries sit there and rot. I think we will get more satisfaction that way!

Er. . . .the refineries worked until IBB and his cohorts got into the saddle, and decided to fritter away money meant for running the refineries & upgrading them. Abacha came in and sounded the death knell on those refineries, by giving the Turn Around Maintenance Programme to technically incompetent groups to carry out. It paid him to allow the refineries to remain comatose, because he & his cronies were making more money importing petroleum products, for the country at grossly inflated rates.  

Does anyone remember the off-spec. smelly fuel that was imported during Abacha's era?? Well, it was done by his clique. Till date, no company has been sanctioned for that offence. And instead of going back to the drawing board to find out what made these refineries stop working, and put things right (because they worked until some point in time!), we are busy selling off our refineries, to those without the expertise to turn them around.

If na so e dey easy to run refinery, make dem Dangote & Otedola go build their own from scratch. We will patronise them, if they can show that they are far more efficient at refining our crude and selling it to us at an affordable price. Chikena!

youngies:
Sure you haven't read "Because I am Involved" It solely the story about the war as seen by Dim Ojukwu.

You see, you were doing so well until you got to this point. Please on what page of that book, did Ojukwu talk about the war?? Ehn?? Tell us o!!

RichyBlacK:
This statement is a metaphor for the philosophy of the likes of Ono; a philosophy that can be identified as a form of post traumatic stress disorder resulting from the Biafran War. The likes of Ono have a perpetual dependence on the Hausa for salvation from a threat, largely attributed to the Igbos, born out of hallucinations (probably) caused by excessive crude oil ingestion.

Why are you exaggerating?? In what way has Ono expressed a perpetual dependence on the Hausa for salvation?? I don't get it o! Everyone has a different perspective on the causes, and the aftermath of the civil war. It happens the world over. The guy simply has a different viewpoint. Refute his allegations with facts. Simple. I have tried to set him straight on a few occassions. I don't believe in conjecture. Its' better to place the facts on the table & let people judge for themselves.