₦airaland Forum

To be a welfare state, half of your GDP must be taken by government

They are a minority so they can't satisfy the demand even if they reduce the fare.
If they were a majority, the price will likely come down because some will reduce it and it will spread

Gerrard59:
Those countries cannot compete with the US because they don't have the land mass and population figures to compete favourably. Brazil, China, India, Nigeria, Pakistan to an extent, Iran, too if/when sanctions are removed, and Indonesia, to an extent are countries that can compete with the US because their internal population can consume homemade products and develop new technologies. There is a limit to superpower status for a mid-sized populated country.


Neither is South Korea an immigrant worker destination. In fact, the Chinese have proved that a highly populated country does not need immigration to thrive. In fact, it is the opposite - you prevent brain drain or attract your intellectuals outside of the country to return home. That is what the Chinese have done. India exports its talents and very few return permanently compared to China.

Nothing concerns development with being pro-immigration. It is pro-foreign investment that matters, not pro-immigration.


Well, this very thread is telling us how a senior US official has stated clearly that the US won't watch India develop as how China did. Manufacturing cheaply is possible in India, but you need the brain mass. Where and how would that happen when the best leave India en masse? Most new technologies in the world are controlled by either the US or China, and the latter has restricted some of them, while the former has simply stated that it won't allow India to develop into the next China.

There is also the issue of cultural values towards development. But that is a topic for another day.

If SK can not compete with the USA what about Japan that is like half of the US population? Countries like South Korea and Japan succeeded because they copied the west verbatim and that is just it. They copied the economic system almost word for word. High tax to GDP made possible by high personal income tax and highly planned city that kept the value of real estate rising. China did not copy the west exactly. They don't have personal income tax. They are like Russia. India or Indonesia could have been like South Korea. Only one leader can make the difference. Brazil could have been like South Korea. I believe just having personal income tax for all workers would have gotten them there. I don't know of any country where all workers are captured in the personal income tax net that is not a first world country. So it has something to do with totally formalizing the economy. Not more than that. When no one works under the table you essentially become a first world country.

The question now is can you have a totally formalized economy and still have a low cost of living? Theoretically possible but no examples that I know of

IGBOSON1:
I really don't know if you're deliberately just being evasive or you genuinely confused and don't know WTF you're supposed to be 'arguing' anymore!

We kicked things off with me telling you your thinking of what constitutes a 'fair' allocation of appointments and funds amongst the regions was not only wicked, but also bore the hallmarks of one having a misplaced sense of entitlement and superiority over others! Can't say i'm surprised at your 'arguments' on the issue thus far! The surprise would have been if you argued on the side of justice and fairness, because that would run counter to all your hegemonic and anti-Igbo instincts. The structure and political-economy you and your northern partners enthroned in Nigeria after the counter-coup of 1966 was the beginning of the daylight robbery and display of avarice, as it was during this period a decision was made to appropriate ownership and control of the regional hydrocarbon deposits to the centre....and allocations to the regions would henceforth be determined by the centre and based on useless landmass and ojoro population! Now, at no point, not even with all the unitary constitutions you subsequently churned out, was there a understanding that the component parts (then regions and now states) would have the number of their representatives and appointees to the centre determined based on population or landmass! We are all now working with a structure, political-economy and constitution that YOU fashioned for the rest of us! You can't just wake up one morning and feel the urge to change the same 'rules' YOU initially set for the rest of us.....which we've all now been operating for decades! You can't tweak the rules decades later just because you want to grab a bit more resources and opportunities to your region and just because you want to cheat Ndigbo and show them a bit more pepper!

And why should we limit the discussion to 'south-west and south-east' when there are proud Igbo like me from the south-south whose resources you have equally used to fix up your region and yet shown me nothing but ingratitude and hatred in return!? Dude, we're talking about the resources of Ndigbo, not just the south-east, being used to develop your region FROM THE 60S TO DATE! Where did you think all that money Gowon and subsequent military despots used to fix up your region (with particular emphasis on Lagos) came from?.....The money that caused Gowon to declare that 'Nigerias' problem wasn't money, but what to do with it'!.....The money that helped build all those structures in Lagos that i referenced in my last post and helped finance the cement armada!? You think it was cocoa mony that did all that!? What jumps out from all this back-and-forth i'm having with you is just how ungrateful and hateful Nigerians with a hegemonic mindset can be! They feel they own the country, and that the rest of us exist just for their pleasure! We all saw this type of mindset with Buhari, and we're seeing it subsist with the present emilokan mob that took over from him!

This talk about you threatening to shut down port operations in Lagos is hilarious! Whatever is annoying you over Lagos ports is the result of your being clever-by-half and scheming over the past decades to ensure almost everything that makes a nation and generates wealth is sited in Lagos! You're in no position to complain about anything because it's all of your making! In any case, you can't equate whatever 'inconveniences' brought about by the man-made problem of siting Apapa and Tincan Island ports in Lagos......you can't compare that with the real and life-threatening problems faced by oil bearing communities in the Nigeri-Delta! There's is caused by the Nigerian state, and for decades they've been telling this same greedy Nigerian state to hands off and leave their oyel and gas for them, but their protestations continue to fall on deaf ears!

Can you mention some of the federal projects in the south-east?....Projects commensurate with or close to what's been done in and for your own region?

I'll tell you hear and now that the Yoruba are generally not interested in leaving 'one Nigeria', so just quit with the pretence! Your brother Igboho, who was once the poster child for secession and the realisation of Oduduwa Republic, is now singing 'on your mandate we shall stand' with gusto, and is too busy chopping from the high table of to care anymore about anything secession or Oduduwa! Probably after Tinubu has left the scene, he'll pick up the 'agitation' from where he left off!

How am I anti Igbo? Did I ever say the injustice was caused by Igbos? There is injustice and I am happy you now see it and pointing it out is not anti Igbo. If oil dependence did not interrupt our nation building the injustice would have been apparent because I can't bring half the revenue and you ask me to take one third of appointments, the country would rather split. What enabled it is the dependence on oil and that is not the fault of any group.
The SW is producing oil and it is not correct to be saying oil from the East is being used to sponsor the SW. IF Nigeria is no more oil revenue of Yoruba land will still be more or less constant. The old western region comprising of SW and Edo and Delta too has oil almost as much as the old Eastern region. So your argument on oil does not hold water.

You say what FG projects in the East? What about federal schools? What about the huge salaries being paid to politicians? Whatever the SE is collecting in that regards, Oyo and Ogun together should have been taking more than that for equity not to talk of Lagos.

On oil, my opinion is actually that it does not belong to anybody. It is not a result of the hard work of anybody especially the fields offshore. Does it really make sense for a small littoral state to be claiming the contents of the whole oceans which is over seventy percent of Earth's surface to be theirs? I don't believe so. It should belong to all of humanity.

The average Yoruba wants a Yoruba nation. Sunday Igboho is only saying he is supporting Tinubu for now in the same way Kanu was not fighting for Biafra during Jonathan's era. The people that are neither here nor there are the people like Igbo Union and IPOB who are against state police.

Oil money did not help Yoruba land because we were doing better when we were without oil and around only twenty million people and we are also contributing oil to Nigeria

Afrojuju2017:
It would be hard for them to get an injunction against eviction,the way the FG had managed the trade fair and the manner the complex management has operated makes inevitable that the complex would be demolished.

Of what use is a trade fair that doesn't host fairs, is not temporary in nature and operates as a market.

The Lagos government may seem to build another super structure for use in expos and industry trade fairs, these are usually auditoriums or open areas with conference rooms and meeting areas not small shops in a congested buildings.

It is better to at least calculate the cost of construction (not going cost of real estate) then remove rent for time spent and then pay them the balance so that the government can take over the complex to use for whatever they want. That would be more humane. Demolition is a waste of money and it is also counterproductive.

If government gives me that kind of land in such a manner I would not develop it

Blazebond:
The united states and Europe don't want any other continent and race to succeed at all,they want all non-white race and other continents to continue to be servants to them,the only reason why they hate China and Iran is because those nations have chosen to be great and it is always disheartening to see Africans and other non-white race people support the united states and Europe against China and Iran,if we know how evil those people are ehn,we would not even want to trade with them for life at all.

There are many non white countries that have even surpassed the US in certain areas like South Korea. South Korea hosts a US military base.

There is no way government will take land and give non indigenes that it will not cause problems. It was the cause of the abandoned property issue in PH, Calabar and etc. You can't take a portion of Igbo land and give to Yorubas to build 1000 houses and think it will stand. If the locals give or sell the land by themselves there would have been no issues

He is just joking. How has the US stopped other allies like South Korea from becoming at par with them? Since the second world war the most successful emergent nation is South Korea which is a country with a US base followed by Israel then maybe Singapore. All are at par with the US.

India too could have become like that. China too has transformed but it is not an immigrant worker destination and not a high income country.

India is a low income country and if nothing changes globally it will take over from China easily because of a lower cost of living. Things can be manufactured in India cheaper than China presently and all India needs now is to build capacity. India's defence budget is also over 40 billion dollars and for a country with per Capita income less than 3k dollars, that budget is worth more than 500 billion dollars in the USA

Somebody living on three dollars a day maybe poor in Lagos but is not poor in the majority of the country. That is over 120k a month. Most starting job offers for graduates are not up to that

Flour mills should break up the funds to fund research in universities BSc, MSc and PhDs

ViceGovernor:
Whatever Israel needs to make sure Iran tastes the feet will be given to them by Uncle Sam on request.

I can't say the same about the chinks and Russ.

You are mentioning Iran and stealth jets ✈️, the only way they can get such is to dream it into existence, no country in the world will give them stealth jets.
Russia won't give them Sukhoi 57 and neither will China give them the J20 mighty dragon 🐲.
Iran is currently firing missiles and leaving their heat signatures to be mapped out from space, the US is also letting them waste their missiles firing into empty football fields and abandoned buildings.

What will come next the whole world won't believe, thats when the screaming of jinoside will start.
Now they're attacking Malaysian ships, adding more enemies to their already long list of enemies.

You say so but for now the US has not given long range missiles to Israel and China or Russia are yet to give stealth jets to Iran. Let them give first. Iran too can enter Israeli skies with jets apart from with missiles if given the required tech and hardware. You should see clearly that the war is more of a game than a real war. A game where large numbers of people are being killed

Don't pray for genocide because any genocide will be answered with genocide

Yes a lot more can be done with cassava

If importation is banned Nigerians will pay more than double what they should pay. Fuel should not cost more than 400 if Dangote does not own the controlling stake of the refinery. If you ban for even fifty years, you will still pay more than double on the 51st year because it is not easy to pay high interests on twenty billion dollars

mikeapollo:
Israel has their own missiles and other weapons. It is not everything 100% that US gives to Israel

The main hardware Israel is using are stealth jets. No company in Israel is making stealth jets or are you talking about rifles, armoured tanks and etc?

victoryenergy:
Really? hope you have not forgotten that Israel has nuclear weapons, and can be deployed if the need arises? because you don't expect a country that has nuke not to use it if it's loosing a war?
One touch and Iran is off the map😊

Stop saying these things. Iran too can obliterate Israel. They can hit their nuclear reactor in Dimona but they are holding back. Nobody has the monopoly of violence or madness. Do you think it is a video game?

ViceGovernor:
Iram has just used a banned 🚫 non-conventional cluster bomb on Israel.

That means they will never ever be allowed to build nuclear weapons because they will use it on every single one of their neighbors.

Now that they have broken a rule Israel is well within their rights to unleash a barrage of Jericho 111 missiles on them, let's see how they fell about that.

Bibi and president Trump should stop pitying Iran and totally obliterate them.

Israel has not used any long range missile to attack Iran same as Iran has not used stealth jets. Will the US equip Israel to strike Iran from Israel? I don't think so. The US are not giving everything they have to Israel same way China is not giving everything to Iran

Yes it can be possible because the government has been spending money on local governments without collecting allocation. The withheld funds is an asset and it can serve as collateral for loan

The FG should release the money. The only ground on which local government funds can be seized is if there are no elections in the local governments but there are elections and if the courts can not settle the matter it is the fault of the court and not the government. The FG is wrong to sit on those funds. The PDP too were wrong not to participate in the Oyetola elections whose winners they now tag as Yes or No chairmen. The President has no right to unilaterally decide not to release the funds when the governor only conducted new elections after a court order.

NotGej:
You are clever by half bro. Now compare the cost of the same coolant in Nigeria to get a better picture of what is being discussed. I bet it cost lower than NGN 45,000. Also, that proper meal you had in Ghana will definitely cost lower in Nigeria.

COMPARATIVE ANALYSIS
1. My experience in Ghana, the cost of a bottle of Heineken beer will purchase 4 bottles of same beer in Nigeria.
2. A pet bottle of Coca-Cola cost about the equivalent of NGN1000 in Ghana while it’s less than NGN 450 in Nigeria. Etc.

Nigeria has economy of scale.

Et fin, Ghana is a very poor country and can’t be compared to Nigeria by all indices.

It is not only economy of scale. Why isn't there economy of scale in the USA versus Ghana? The truth is that if you organize your country by fixing minimum wage and etc for government to have revenue then prices will slightly increase.

bal4real:
Dey play.

Compare us with an oil-producing nation as Nigeria

Ghana is making more forex per Capita than Nigeria. 33 million of them made ten billion dollars from agric export only last year. 220 million of us made less than 30 billion dollars from oil

NATIONALPASTOR:
Trump

Trump is playing a card you dint understand only aimed at destroying Iran.

It's called a justification card.

National Pastor! The apocalypse in your holy book that you desire for the world will never happen. Take my word for it

IGBOSON1:
Honestly, the way you engage in revisionism and selective amnesia just to give life to a already dead narrative is something that needs to be studied! You claim only 5% of present day Lagos was FCT! You mean up until when the federal capital moved to Abuja in the early 90s, that only 5% of present day Lagos state was FCT? Ok, let's assume for the sake of argument that you're 'right'.....that 5% you're referring to WAS developed by the federal gov't from the 60s right up to when the FCT moved, and the commonwealth of ALL Nigerians, of which a large part was sourced from Alaigbo, was used to develop it!

When we talk of federal gov't developing Lagos (whether 5% or everything), it came in two forms: physical projects; and federal gov't policies and actions.
*Some of the physical projects are: Apapa and Tincan Island ports; National Stadium; National Arts Theatre, Iganmu; Tafawa Balewa Square; Murtala Moh'd Airport; the many flyovers; 3rd Minland Bridge, Carter Bridge, etc; the many federal gov't owned buildings that helped service and maintain Lagos' dominance in national politics and economy, like the CBN building, Stock Exchange building, National Assembly, 1004 flats, federal secretariate, NECOM House...initially known as NET building, Dodan Barracks, etc.
*The federal gov't policies and actions that brought disproportionate socio-economic benefits to Lagos and led to its becoming the economic and (then) political capital of Nigeria are: the obvious one of keeping Lagos as the capital after independence; promoting and funding Apapa and Tincan Island ports over others in other coastal cities of the country; promoting and funding Murtala Moh'd Airport over other major airports in other regions of the country; siting financial institutions (public and gov't owned) headquarters and nation building institutions in Lagos while relegating major cities in other regions to the back burner (perhaps only Kaduna got a near level of favoured status and attention as Lagos...for obvious reasons); causing ALL foreign Embassies and High Commissions to be sited in Lagos and as a consequence forcing Nigerians from other parts of the country to head to Lagos for visa application and issuance (and this one had a complimentary relationship with the then only international airport in the country, making Lagos indispensable for any Nigerian seeking to travel abroad or coming back into the country); etc!
So you see, ignoring the aforementioned benefits and preferred status Lagos got over and above cities in other regions, and claiming that Lagos is what it is today owing mainly to the sophistication and ingenuity of the Yoruba, is at best a misleading narrative!

If we're to have a frank assessment of what the south-west as a region has benefitted from Nigeria both financially and by way of policies and actions of the federal gov't, vis-à-vis what the rest of Nigeria (with particular reference to the south-east and south-south) have benefitted in return from the south-west, you'd find that the rest of Nigeria has been left holding the short end of the stick! Just my local gov't alone, ONELGA IN Rivers state, is known for having one of the highest yielding onshore deposits of oyel and gas, and has given Nigeria billions of dollars in revenue from the 70s to date!

Pray, can you mention any significant social or economic contribution the Yoruba ethnicity has made to any town or state in the south-east....or any notable Yoruba demographic in the region wrthy of mention to warrant Ndigbo giving them one of the 5 appointive slots you've deigned to throw our way? We're all here to learn so maybe there's something we're missing that you could enlighten us on!

You say 'no one is stopping the Igbo from voting or being voted for in the south-west'! Please tell me you're joking! I can provide conclusive proof to the contrary if you want me to, but for now i think i'll hod my fire on this one!

You're idea of what constitutes 'equity' is warped, laughable and only serves to further your own ethnic agenda! According to you and your northern co-travellers, states and regions with more population should derive more political and economic benefits over those with less! You also have a similar 'argument' for landmass! But when it comes to the oyel and gas in my land, all of a sudden the rules change and you now declare that it belongs to the hegemonic controlled federal gov't for them to divvy up as they see fit. The demands of the oil producing communities and states for resource ownership and control, that they've been making for decades now (even way before the time of Ken Saro-Wiwa), have fallen on deaf ears because, unlike useless landmass and useless population, resource ownership and control doesn't disproportionately favour the hegemonic establishment so it's only fit for the dustbin!

When representatives of the three regions were going to Lancaster House in London pre-independence to discuss the kind of structure and constitution to adopt at independence, were they going as equals or did those with larger landmass and population have more of a say and a higher status over regions with less? Fact of the matter is, this reference to yeye landmass and population (population figures that have been doctored and cooked every census since the 60s to date) as a means of determining allocation of national resources and political appointments to regions/states is a hallmark of the present political-economy and was invented by the hegemonic alliance to grab more benefits from the centre for themselves!

Well the SW has more oil than the SE so the argument of SE oil being used to sponsor SW ought to stop as SW oil is also being used to sponsor the SE. Stop that argument please. I am talking of SW versus SE in particular and not SW versus Ala Igbo or the former Eastern region. I have been here saying Lagos should shut down or disrupt port operations till they start paying them a percentage of port revenue like they pay oil states because until they do that before they are respected. This should happen if only a month before Nigeria breaks up. They took from Lagos without giving back and you are here claiming they spent money on Lagos? It is because of one Nigeria. Is it only Lagis that receives federal attention and allocations? You have federal projects in the SE.
I know and have heard of Yoruba building stadiums and schools in the SE, sponsoring football competitions and etc. I am surprised you have never heard of such. They are there only they are not loud. If you are not giving them and others anything, why should you expect anything from other places? What kind of entitlement mentality is that?. I don't support that kind of mentality. However on the overall, contest wherever you want to contest since the constitution allows it. That should be the conclusion.

In your view less than twenty million people in the SE should be entitled to the same number of slots of political posts and projects as over 55 million people in the SW and more than that in the NW and that to you is equity? I see it as injustice and if you are pursuing such vigorously it would be bullying. As it is now the SE has more than it's fair share of everything including allocations then institutions like schools and etc but all you can see is that the FG has spent too much money on Lagos when the FG has seized Lagos ports without paying them a dime from port revenue when there are countries where port revenue is a major revenue source just like oil is for some

On the overall, support the breakup of Nigeria as I am doing so that everybody can have full control over their own affairs

Average rent in Nigeria should be lower than in Ghana. City center should not be the metric

Adakintroy:
Na only american morality keeping iran afloat
If American see say them wan loose rather than shop Shame, them fit just nuke them.


Na just talk people go talk less say for 10yrs.

The USSR developed their nukes during the cold war and they also developed the ICBM to boot and the USA did not attempt to stop them despite that they were bitter rivals. Is it now that nine countries have nukes that the USA will use nukes on another country and kill millions of people?. Iran may be chanting Death to the USA and Israel, the USSR did as much but the US will not drop nukes on them for that reason. Israel too will hopefully not do that. The US only used the atomic bomb in 1945 because they invented it in the middle of a war and they were the only ones that had it. It is not the same scenario today.

joinnow:
You have to get it up to 90% enrichment before it becomes nuclear weapon

You can make dirty bombs with uranium enriched to sixty percent and the bombs that were dropped on Japan were dirty bombs. Iran most probably have dirty bombs by now according to most experts

SeeWahala:
Even today that we have had a Yoruba president for over 3 years and counting TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY INFILTRATED 2 OF THE SOUTHWEST STSTES

and these ones still believe having a president from their zone is an achievement?

Hehehe 🤭 wait let the Fulani grand plan of covering Yoruba land with Sharia take place . . . the awakening go load gaan but it will be too late

Just 5 years more let's all pray for long life

But why do you think the IPOB and an organization called the Igbo union are against state police?

Willie2015:
U are right that stock aren't infinite but the efficiency math's is shifting.
If Israeli destroys the mobile launcher faster than Iran’s automotive industry can roll them out....
its a simple dead end....
While Iran can manufacture missiles easily, (TELs) are actually harder to replace...
Israeli-US are not sleeping and dormant....
Esfahan Missile Complex ,Shahroud Missile Facility AND Ali Akbar Drone Base are heavily damaged....
They will destroy the few estimated 30+ operative launcher remaining...
Where it cant be destroyed... they can block all tunnels entry and exit routes
effectively keeping them underground.....
Lastly.. its all about constant surveillance and intelligence....
For example, the Israeli SAR can see through clouds and even detect underground vibrations when heavy trucks move.
The US uses AI to scan drone footage to spot the specific heat signatures or tire tracks of Iranian launch teams....
Its a dead end for Iran....
Its an act of cowardice for IRGC to start fighting a war and continue to hide in civilian areas.....

So if you are the manager of Iran, having enough missile launchers will be a huge problem for you?

Arrowhead71:
Between Israel and Iran...who is bleeding more right now ....be sincere

And what exactly do you mean by defeat ...because am try to understand a Nation whose Air space is free entry and exit for America and Israel still claiming victory

There is no defeat only destruction on both sides and both airspaces are free entry

Don27tiky:
that is wailing Mr. There is a reason why countries avoid confrontation with nuclear armed nations. Push them and its ’’ KABUUUSH’’ . Israel care about Iranians Thats why they are limiting their strikes.

Which country do you know of that has avoided confrontation with a nuclear power? There is practically none.

mikeapollo:
Tell us what Iran has got to defend or prevent its president or citizens from bombs falling from the skies.
Israel has bomb shelters for its citizens
Israel has air defense systems, even if they are not 100%
How many Israeli top generals, govt officials and citizens have been killed by Iran. Compare that to Israel's bombing of Iran.

Most people that have died on both sides are innocent civilians. Focus more on suggestions of how there can be de-escalation because a nuclear confrontation can end our civilization. People will survive but not enough to keep the civilization going

Willie2015:
Dont agree with you ...
A single jet can return to base, reload, and fly multiple missions per day.....
Now imagine the havoc 50 stealth jets can cause Iran...
How long do you think Iran can continue their ballistic missiles ?
The IDF estimates it has destroyed approximately 75% of Iran's mobile missile launchers...
All they need is to intensify their air campaign and thin out Iran Ballistic Missiles capabilities...
Its a dead end for Iran...

Heavy Air to surface Bombs costs money to make maybe like one million dollars a piece and the stock is not infinite. If you think all the launchers can be taken out then you are deceiving yourself because they are probably being manufactured faster than they are being destroyed

mikeapollo:
It is senseless to rely on missiles only in this kind of war.
Any side that cannot fly its own warplanes cannot win this war because it can only be won through supremacy in the air.

You don't need warplanes when you have good hypersonic missiles and the coordinates of where you want to strike. Israel has one and Iran the other

mikeapollo:
Israel does not have what?

If you don't know, the war is technically between the US and China. Israel is using US air force and Iran's missiles are being guided by Chinese satellites.